Roundup Ready Corn & Soybean Food Plot

[dbltree]

Being some what of a "food plot junkie" I'm always looking for the edge...the perfect combination that most certainly will draw every deer in the area to MY place

Recently I came across an old idea with a little different twist and that is planting RR corn and soybeans together. I've seen plots where they planted 2 rows of corn, 2 rows of beans but the deer just walked the rows and ate the beans off right to the ground.

Now they are drilling the soys and then row planting corn into the drilled beans. The drilled beans are much thicker of course and serve to help fix N for the corn as well as shade out weeds when hit the second time with RU.
I'm thinking I will give it a shot and broadcast rye in also in early September.

Heck...the deer should be in there so thick, I may have to beat em off with a stick!! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 14pt'><span style="color: #FF0000">This thread contains all the basic planting requirments for both corn and soybeans, together, seperate and both Roundup Ready and conventional</span> </span></div></div>

[JNRBRONC]

Corn really hates early competition and this is the time when yield (ear size, number of rows of kernals per ear, etc.) is determined. Maybe the corn will jump off to a great start and get above the soybeans. Lord knows I hoed a lot of voluteer corn out of soybean fields as a youth, but thinking back, it usually didn't have the best ears.
The nitrogen soybeans fix is locked in the root nodules, only to be released the following year as the root breaks down. I'm not trying to shoot down your plans, just adding what I think to be correct. How about a foodplot with corn around the edges and a chunk of beans in the middle? That way if your foodplot can be seen from the road, it might make it harder for people to see deer in it (with the spotlight).

One year I had sorghum planted with the corn. I'm not sure how big deer are on sorghum, but the pheasants, quail and turkey will make use of it. There is some special sorghum one needs to plant so that it doesn't take over and reseed itself. It's been so long I have forgotten.

[dbltree]

Corn hates competition for nitrogen more then anything so beans help by shading out weeds that do compete for N. I have been planting corn on corn for over 10 years now, so by adding soybeans I can save or add about 25-30# N each year by having the soybeans in the mix also.
I have such a high deer density that they currently eat the corn plant itself on a third of the field before it ever gets a chance to make an ear. I'm hoping that they will work on the soys (and a new clover plot) and give the corn a chance. My goal is just to produce more feed per acre for not only deer but all wildlife.

[dbltree]

Some pics from my own corn only plots:
This one shows what happens if you don't use herbicide! Missed a corner

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/513/771Corn_Plot_Missing_herbicide.jpg

Shoulder high by the 4th of July!
http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/513/771Shoulder_High_by_the_4th.jpg

Early fall it's providing great wildlife cover and feed.
http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/513/771Early_Fall.jpg

By December they are starting to strip the field bare as by that time it is the only feed left in the area.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/513/771Corn_Foodplot_in_Dec.jpg

Late winter is is stripped bare but still full of wildlife searching for every last "crumb"

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/513/medium/771Late_winter_Corn_Food_Plot.jpg

Chopping the stalks in March making ready to put on fertlizer and spring planting of the next years plot.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/513/medium/771Choppin_stalks.jpg

I normally no-till plant my plot but I may disc and broadcast RR soybeans and then row plant my RR corn into that. Hope to have pics like the QDMA post this summer!

[strutnrut]

I see where The durry? brothers are advertising BIO-MAX. I think that was the name of it. Corn and Bean mix. I dont know if that would work real well or not. I think I'll keep planting seperate plots.

[dbltree]

If I had unlimited acres, I would plant seperate plots, but because it's in CRP I'm limited. That leaves only one option for me (I know many others are in the same boat) and that is to get as much food mass produced per acre as possible.

[dbltree]

For those with a farming background many of my update posts on this subject will be old news, but for those that dont....

Today I put on 500# per acre of triple 19 fertilizer, meaning I put on nearly a 100#'s actual of each, NPK (nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium)

The spreader wouldn't put on that much, so it was set to 250# and I went over it twice and some of it three times. Normally there are cheaper forms of nitrogen such as anhydrous ammonia but in a food plot situation it's not feasable for most.

Urea is the most common dry form of nitrogen but it is somewhat volatile (begins to vaporize) and is best put on before a good rain or tilled in. I'm hoping for a good rain in the next 24 hours. I also try to get mine put on before farmers get going in the fields or it's difficult to get a spreader.

The other option is to buy it in bags and use a 3 pt spreader. I have had liquid nitrogen and herbicide put on by the fertilizer dealer but it's often very difficult to get them to come out for 5-6 acres.

Soil nutrient levels can be built up over time, especially P and K. These elements can be applied even the fall before. Nitrogen is more easliy lost and if possible a split application can be done, with part at planting and the rest after the corn has emerged and able to absorb the N.

Building up high levels of organic matter by rotating your corn crop to a "spent" clover plot or plowing down buckwheat or rye will also help.

This link will provide you with more detailed info onsoil testing and using fertilizer and lime:

Soil Testing and fertilizers (http://www.iowawhitetail.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=179328#Post179328)

Because I'm adding soybeans to my corn plot I need to wait for much warmer weather and hopefully no more frosts before planting... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

[dbltree]

I planted my RR corn/soybean combo yesterday. I disced it several times and then went over it with a harigator (just because I had use of the tractor and equipment ;))

Then I mounted a 3 point spreader on the tractor and broadcast the <span style="color: #33CC00">soybeans</span>. Little by guess and by gosh, trial and error and all that. Anywhere between 100,000 to 200,000 seeds per acre, so at least I can compare which is better...thick or thin!

I went back over it with the harigator to cover the seed and then used my JD no-till 4 row corn planter to plant the RR <span style="color: #3366FF">corn</span>. I planted some at <span style="color: #CC0000">25,000 per acre and some at 32,000. </span>

Seed corn is ususally sold in 80,000 count bags which means a bag will plant roughly 2 1/2 to 3 acres.

My planter is set up for planting wide rows (34-38") while many newer planters plant 28" to 32" rows, all of which can affect planting populations. Planters have a book which will show how to adjust chains to change the seeds per acre.

Check with local seed dealers for left over/broken bags for big discounts and with local Pheasants Forever Chapters for <span style="color: #FF0000">FREE</span> seed.

If not for the use of any equipment I needed I would have no-till planted both the corn and soybeans. I have been no-tilling for over 10 years now with fantastic results!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Harigator.jpg

Just planted April 21, 2006
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Justplanted.jpg

Now I will watch the weed/plant growth and try to nuke the weeds the first time before they start sucking up nitrogen.
Stay tuned! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

[dbltree]

It's been almost 30 days since planting and most of that period has been cold and wet. Corn is yellow in many areas across the state this spring.
The first soys were just starting to pop up when they got nipped by a late frost on May 6th. They are still coming up and at this point it looks like I could have planted them a little thicker but time will tell.
Nice crop of foxtail coming up as well /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

With no pre-emergence herbicicde, I have to watch closely and nuke it before the weeds start sucking up nitrogen.

View of field...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/RRCornnSoybeans30days.jpg

Closeup of beans, corn and...weeds!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/cornnsoys.jpg

[Shredder]

What was your total bill on that?...all roundup ready of course. You know, for a mere $65 an acre, you could have put that Biologic Biomaxx down with Monsanto's blessing (quote from one of the Drury's). /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif

Looks good and I will be interested to see how the beans do from a broadcast state.

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What was your total bill on that?...all roundup ready of course. You know, for a mere $65 an acre, you could have put that Biologic Biomaxx down with Monsanto's blessing (quote from one of the Drury's). /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif

Looks good and I will be interested to see how the beans do from a broadcast state. </div></div>

I'm a Pheasants Forever member so I was able to get the RR seed corn free (if you don't count the banquet tickets /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif) and I bought the RR soybeans from a dealer who had them left over from last year for $15 a bag.

If the deer don't hammer the beans to the ground in the next few weeks...it will be a small miracle! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

[Shedhuntermd]

Very cool!

I just put in 3 ac of RR corn and 1.5 ac of soy beans. Unfortunately we had to just till the ground and broadcast the seeds, then we used the drug the tiller without the teeth spinning over the seed, well see if it works. I put in 4 ac of Whitetail Institute clover, 1 ac of Max attract 1 ac of Alfalfa, .5 ac of kale/rape, 1 ac of chicory. I sprayed all of the clover yesterday with Butarak. Just pray for rain

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, how is the plot looking now dbltree?
I ended up with about 110,000 RR soys I'm saving for next year and a buddy checking on some RR corn also. Just waiting to see how your plot turns out. </div></div>

I just sprayed it a little over a week ago TP...the foxtail had went wild and we hadn't had any rain. Since then it's had a 3/4" rain so I'll check on it in a few days and post some pics. A week ago...after 3 weeks with no rain it looked terrible but that had nothing to do with the corn/bean combo. The beans are not even close to competing with the corn yet...the foxtail sure was though /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

I may need to side dress some urea yet also...stay tuned /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With no pre-emergence herbicide, I have to watch closely and nuke it before the weeds start sucking up nitrogen.
</div></div>



You would think I would at least heed my own advice! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif

Hard to believe how fast foxtail can grow when it's got plenty of fertilizer to work with &lt; /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

This is what Bronc was talking about when he said "corn hates competition" /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Seaoffoxtail.jpg

got er kilt though! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/RRcornnsoybeans45days.jpg


Hard to see the beans...but they are there...barely...dang deer /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cornnsoysafterspray.jpg

At this point because of the constant "grazing" by both deer and turkeys...I could have planted the beans a lot heavier. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

I varied between 100,000 to 200,000 seeds per acre...but it's still to early to see what will be left by fall.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cornnsoysafterspray2.jpg

Couple things I'm thinking of doing next year:

1) No-till BOTH corn and beans. I would plant the beans first in a kitercorner fashion going over it twice to plant 15" rows.

2) Use Dual Magnum pre-emergence herbicide. It's approved for both corn and beans and will help control the foxtail until I spray with Roundup.

Dual II MAGNUM® (http://www.syngentacropprotection-us.com/prod/herbicide/dualiimagnum/index.asp?nav=OVERVIEW)

At this point I have found NOTHING negative about the corn/bean combo. The foxtail problem is just a spray/timing thing that one needs to be on top of when planting RR crops using no pre-emergence herbicide.

Lack of rain could be a huge problem...RR or not... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

[TimberPig]

Yikes Dble, you did get alot of foxtail in that plot! My neighbor planted my Liberty Link corn plot 4 days after yours, and I would say its about twice the height of yours right now. I dont know if that is due to moisture or your competition from grass. I did have some broadleaves coming in and I sprayed around June 2nd with Liberty ATZ, which wiped out the BL's and volunteer corn. I never really did get any grass (yet), the plot was not no-tilled.
I am interested in how your plot does because I only have 1 acre for annuals so the double crop sounds good. I know thats not much acreage but next year there should be 75 acres of corn and 20 acres of beans within 100 yards or so of this plot and I dont have the deer population you do. So, I am not really worried about browse pressure so much as how the beans effect your corn yeild. In other words, its not going to be a big deal to put in the beans but I probably wouldnt sacrifice the corn to do it.

Btw, I put down about 300#'s of 46-0-0 and 40# of 0-0-60 on the 1 acre prior to discing. I mentioned broadcasting some additional urea later on but my farmer neighbor warned that if I did it after the plants split leaves (whorled??) I would risk burning the corn with the urea. Has that been a problem for you?

[JNRBRONC]

Urea needs to be disced or "rained in" or one risks loss to evaporation. incorporate for maximum benefit (http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/cropsystems/DC0636.html)

[dbltree]

I had hoped to be able to show that the combination of RR corn and beans would...
a) work well together to maximize food plot production
or
b)show that corn would shade out the beans
or
c)that the soybeans would out compete the corn

I hadn't counted on

d) severe drought and severe deer damage /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

The combination of letting the foxtail get to big at the same time as getting hit with severe dry weather set the corn back severely. Because of that the deer took advantage of it and have proceeded to attempt to graze the entire plot to the ground!

Damage to beans:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/DamagedBeans.jpg

Damage to corn:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/DeerDamage4.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Moredamage.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/DeerDamage3.jpg

It's hard to walk with out stepping in this...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Theevidence.jpg

Some places the beans are doing a little better...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Beans.jpg

I've never had damage like this in 10 years of corn in this food plot, so I never expected this.

Next year I will be very careful about prompt weed control including the use of Dual Magnum for some residual foxtail control.

I put on a total of 150# of actual nitrogen as well as 100# each of P and K.

Not sure that more would have helped under the circumstances.

I am going to till some headlands and plant brassicas and overseed brassicas and rye into the standing corn and beans (such as they are...)
and try again next year /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks to me by the browse damage and fertilizer being left some arrows/slugs need to fly this season! I'm getting an itchy release finger if you can't tell /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif </div></div>

We killed 4 there last year but 40 might have been better /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

Timberpig...I just noticed your post about urea. I put on 500#'s of triple 19 just ahead of a good soaking rain before planting and then another 100# of 46% several weeks ago. It was supposed to rain of course but we only got a couple tenths, a 1/4" to a 1/2" would have been better. At any rate it didn't "burn" the corn although that is a possible.

Nitrogen is a big problem when planting corn in small plots. Anhydrous ammonia is the cheapest and perhaps best source for corn but most people don't have a tractor big enough to pull an applicator and knife it in.

Normally I use UAN liquid nitrogen which the fertilizer dealer applies. The problem with that is...getting them out there! They want to combine it with someone elses corn and so often the corn is up and the nitrogen "burns" it.

Urea (46%) works fine but as noted in a previous post it needs to be tilled in or a good rain within 24-48 hours or you can lose up to 20%. The stuff is like gold already so one hates to lose any of it, but it is something most food plotters can handle, either by bag or bulk.
Sidedressing generally is not a big problem but again timing is important and this year even a 100% chance of rain wasn't enough.


Effects of UAN or Urea on growing corn (http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm/icm/1996/5-27-1996/ureauan.html)

If at all possible I would suggest having nitrogen knifed in or sprayed on when a farmer or applicator is doing thiers, with urea being the next best option.

I prefer to no-till (which I regret not doing this year) because it conserves soil moisture (gee...wouldn't that have come in handy... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif ) and if the soil is not disturbed weeds will be delayed in germinating (and I wouldn't have had such an explosion of foxtail)

Most farmers using RR corn use some residual herbicide along with roundup. I expect to either use Dual for that purpose or perhaps 3 applications of Roundup. I do know that it takes much less Roundup to kill small growing weeds then it does tough grasses like brome.

I bought 2 1/2 gallons of generic roundup for about $60 and I got by with less then a quart per acre each application.

[JNRBRONC]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I hadn't counted on

d) severe drought and severe deer damage /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

The combination of letting the foxtail get to big at the same time as getting hit with severe dry weather set the corn back severely. Because of that the deer took advantage of it and have proceeded to attempt to graze the entire plot to the ground!
</div></div>

I took a quick drive along a couple of our fields to look at deer crop damage yesterday. I was too hot and tired from chopping weeds to get out of the truck, so the shot isn't the best, having been taken out of the window. This picture is of one area of damage, I saw three such areas in the 1/3 mile of field edge I drove. It isn't as bad as it has been in the past. Unlike some parts of the state, our fields have been getting timely rains.

Thus, the corn grew FAST and tall. I think this limited the time it was most vulnerable to browsing. The stalks in back are about 8 feet tall, a couple of rows in front are browsed off right above the ear at 4 foot. There should be enough pollen drift to pollinate those ears, but the deer like to eat the silk off the end of the ears. This is more of an ag field than a food plot, but at this point (and up until it is harvested), what's the difference? /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

We have had foxtail problems in the past, so both corn and beans are RR this year. We also stacked the Bt trait on as much ground as allowed. It looks to be a good crop, there, I just jinxed it! :(&gt;

Hail and straight line winds are on the way. The deer seem to be focusing more heavily on the soybean fields. I have noticed that about every ragweed plant has been browsed as well.
http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/1110detassel-med.jpg

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I hadn't counted on

d) severe drought and severe deer damage /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

The combination of letting the foxtail get to big at the same time as getting hit with severe dry weather set the corn back severely. Because of that the deer took advantage of it and have proceeded to attempt to graze the entire plot to the ground!
</div></div>

Unlike some parts of the state, our fields have been getting timely rains. Thus, the corn grew FAST and tall. I think this limited the time it was most vulnerable to browsing. The stalks in back are about 8 feet tall, a couple of rows in front are browsed off right above the ear at 4 foot. </div></div>

Normally that's pretty much what would happen to my corn Randy. I have to depend on very rapid growth so that it get's beyond the stage that deer will eat the center right out of the stalk. After that they start ripping the ears off even in the silk /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

If anything causes a delay in growth...well, you can see what happens in my case. I have been using the Yieldguard corn the past few years also.

There are literally hundreds of acres of soybeans within a mile of my plot but why walk out in the open when they are safe at my place...eating my "buffet" /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

That last storm did knock some beautiful fields of corn flat /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

[dbltree]

Anybody that is interested in the corn/bean combo might want to check out this post. Looks like he's got it going on with his...although from the looks of his "un-nipped" beans, he may not have any deer /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Great pics and a good looking plot:

RR corn/soybean plot (http://www.qdmaforums.com/showthread.php?p=48681&amp;posted=1#post48681)

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What kind and what amounts of fertilizer do you use on corn food plots? With the cost of fertilizer I don't want to over do it but I also want the best corn crop that I can get.
</div></div>

It's always best to soil test of course but here are some thoughts.

Corn needs a heavy dose of nitrogen which of course is the most expensive input.

In the past I have always put on 500#'s of triple 19 per acre which gave me nearly a hundred pounds actual of NPK and then side dressed <span style="color: #FF0000">another 100# of 46% in June </span>for a total of nearly <span style='font-family: Arial Black'>150#'s of N per acre.</span>

I sent in a soil test this winter and I only need about 30# of P&amp;K per acre since I have built fertility levels up.

I need 180#'s of N though. Ideally the best method is to knife in anhydrous ammonia but that is difficult for a small food plot.

Urea or 46% is the next best option and it's best to till it in right after spreading it on or most of it will be lost within 24-48 hours.

It's difficult to get much of a corn crop with out a bare minimum of 80-100# of actual nitrogen per acre...and more is better.

400-500#'s of triple 19 tilled in before planting is a good easy analysis to put on for corn.

<span style='font-family: Fixedsys'><span style='font-size: 11pt'>Another option is 300-400#'s of 6-24-24 at planting and then side dressing 100-150#'s of 46% urea just before a good rain (you need a 1/2" of more) in early to mid June.</span></span>

This winter N was $450 a ton and P&amp;K was about $250 to 300 a ton but those prices have no doubt went up.

[huntdoc]

Are you going to give it another try this year? http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you going to give it another try this year? /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif </div></div>

Yes...I'm glutton for punishment and corn is still #1 for food and cover...so stay tuned for round 2! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

I'll be covering everything in the thread of course but two main problems I have are high deer density and foxtail.

I'll be planting plenty of "candy" plots to try to draw deer away from the corn/bean combo.

I'll be using Dual Magnum 2 (http://www.syngentacropprotection-us.com/pdf/labels/SCP818AL1M0204n.pdf) herbicide for residual control along with Roundup.

Dual Magnum is safe for both corn and soybeans not to mention a host of other crops.

I would love to try these RR Forage Soybeans (http://www.eagleseed.com/forage.html) but with shipping they are nearly $50 bucks a bag versus $15 bucks for leftover RR soybeans locally.

I like Mali's (http://www.outdooressentialsllc.com/) method of planting basically in the same row also:

http://www.outdooressentialsllc.com/images/cbb.jpg

[turkeyriver]

I'm going to try something a little different this year to keep the deer from going down the row and nipping off everthing early. I'm going to turn the population down on my planter and plant the plot BOTH directions. With crossing rows everwhere the deer won't be able to move so easily or at least will lose the ability to move down each row. What do you think?

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm going to try something a little different this year to keep the deer from going down the row and nipping off everthing early. I'm going to turn the population down on my planter and plant the plot BOTH directions. With crossing rows everwhere the deer won't be able to move so easily or at least will lose the ability to move down each row. What do you think? </div></div>

If your planting corn only and using a pre-emergence herbicide then I've heard it does help.

If your using RR corn and you have to spray several times then you run over some corn while spraying...and it doesn't recover like soybeans.

I'm not sure it would even phase my herd of food plot raiders...but I'am at least going to double plant the end rows.

Looking back at the pics I really don't think they would have cared if the whole thing would have been broadcast even /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Dang critters anyhow /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

[turkeyriver]

Do you mix your corn and beans in the planter box? I've got a JD 7000 planter. If you mix them do you use bean or corn units?

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you mix your corn and beans in the planter box? I've got a JD 7000 planter. If you mix them do you use bean or corn units? </div></div>

That's what I have also but I've always planted the beans...then switch planter drives and planted the corn.

I'm not sure if soybeans would go thru the corn drive or not, be nice if they would but I haven't tried it.

One could just jump the population way up and mix the seed if that would work.

Right now I'm just going to offset my rows slightly and plant the beans first and then go back over it planting the corn.

Last year I sprayed RUP three times and I ran over to many soybeans with them being broadcast.

The commercial sprayers are huge and cover a wide span but my little sprayer doesn't cover very much. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Sprayer.jpg

[dbltree]

While nobody is a bigger fan of corn then I am, it's important to understand the high input costs of corn, corn vs beans and the RR corn/bean scenario.

Nitrogen costs have skyrocketed since it is made almost soley from natural gas.

This is a link to some general comaprisons although I'm not sure that it is current as the price's I've been quoted are even higher.

2007/2007 input costs for corn (http://agebb.missouri.edu/mgt/inputs.pdf)

Why are nitrogen prices so high? (http://www.noble.org/Ag/Soils/NitrogenPrices/Index.htm)

Quite often one can get free seed corn from Pheasants Forever so the main costs are for nitrogen and herbicide.

At 45 cents per pound for urea 150# of actual nitrogen would run a about $70 per acre.

If residual herbicide is used and assuming spraying is hired done it normally has cost me around $30 to 35 per acre.

Without adding input costs for P &amp; K...corn alone is a bare minimum of a $100 an acre,

Add the additional fertilizer, perhaps seed and fuel...one can easily spend $150 an acre without much effort.

This link is for 2006 costs but gives a good comparison of per acre costs of both corn and soybeans. You can subtract those that would not apply to a "hobby" crop.

Costs of crop production in Iowa (http://extension.agron.iastate.edu/soybean/documents/FM17122006EstimatedCostofCropProductioninIowa.pdf)

Fertilizer Recommendations For Soybeans (http://www.ianr.unl.edu/PUBS/fieldcrops/g859.htm)

One can easily see that corn on corn is more then double the cost of soybeans.

You can lower your costs if you can apply anhydrous ammonia rather then urea and apply less nitrogen if you plant corn following alfalfa, clover or a good crop of peas.

These are things to consider as far as plot rotations for the future.

It's realtively easy to control weeds in RR soybeans as they will canopy eventually.

RR corn still needs some type of residual weed control in most cases and if planted alone, atrazine is the most commonly used.

Getting someone to purchase it or apply it is another story, which is why I'm going with the RUP/Dual Magnum 2 combo.

I can purchase these and apply them myself...I am still stuck however buying expensive nitrogen.

A bag of seed corn is 80,000 kernels planted at a rate of 26,000 to 32,000 seeds per acre...or approx. 2.5 acres per bag.

Soybean seed is normally in 50# bags but can vary from 2000-4000 seeds per pound.

Planting rates vary widely from 125,000 to 200,000+ seeds per acre.

Check your local dealer for last years seed at considerable discount and join PF...at $130 a bag for RR seed corn...the PF dues are the best bargain you'll ever get!

For those of you in the ag supply industry...help me out here with current fertilizer, seed and herbicide costs in your area.

[dbltree]

If it ever stops raining I hope to get my corn and beans in.

I decided to try a bag of RR forage soybeans from Eagle Seed (http://www.eagleseed.com/forage.html) to compare them to what I'm used too.

They are supposed to stay green (if I understand correctly) up until frost and should get taller and produce more mass forage.

It will be interesting to compare them in side by side plantings with regular RR soybeans.

With the high cost of nitrogen....beans are looking better all the time.

I have great soil fertility so I'm going to put on a 180# of actual nitrogen in the form of urea, disk it in and row plant the beans first, then the corn.

If I wasn't planting corn I could skip the nitrogen altogether.

I'll put on Dual Magnum 2 for residual and then hit whatever comes up later with Roundup.

Hopefully we'll get some of this rain during the summer this time /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

[TimberPig]

In case anyone was wondering what prices were on fertilizer this year, here is what I just paid at the local Farm Service Coop:
Urea 46-0-0 = 23.5 cents/lb or $468/ton
MAP 11-52-0 = 22.5 cents/lb or $450/ton
Potash 0-0-60 = 15.6 cents/lb or $312/ton

Prices are per/lb of product, not per/lb of actual N. For example, urea is $468/ton, but a ton of nitrogen in urea form will cost you $1018 because a ton urea has only 920lbs of actual nitrogen in it. Most of you probably understand that, but anyone new to this stuff needs to understand the difference or your expected fertilizer costs can double real quick.
Another coop was slightly cheaper but farther for me to drive.
My seed was all free thanks to PF and neighbors, and round-up is cheap, so my 1 acre plot (1/3 bean 2/3 corn) should cost me around $75, $65 of that is fertilizer. I had planned to mix the corn and beans together but I decided to split the plot and plant seperately since I had so much leftover corn in the plot this spring. If the beans dont make it to fall I'll replace them with rye/wheat in late summer.

[nannyslayer]

Hey dbltree, I didn't read all of the post, but have you ever thought about split planting your RR plot? If you have a six row, why not put 3 boxes of SB and 3 boxes of corn. I have actually seen a plot done this why, and it really didn't look bad, corn was a little set back, had shorter ears, but as a plot, I thought it looked good. The same guy is going to do it again this year, so I will try to get you some pics of the plot. I really think that you will be impressed.

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey dbltree, I didn't read all of the post, but have you ever thought about split planting your RR plot? If you have a six row, why not put 3 boxes of SB and 3 boxes of corn. I have actually seen a plot done this why, and it really didn't look bad, corn was a little set back, had shorter ears, but as a plot, I thought it looked good. The same guy is going to do it again this year, so I will try to get you some pics of the plot. I really think that you will be impressed. </div></div>

Yes I have seen that done...and the deer walked right down the rows and mowed every single bean plant to the ground before they got 3" tall /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

It is an option for those with low deer densities though. Another is to plant a "wall" of corn around the outside as a screen and beans in the center.

In my case I'm going for maximum tonnage production and planting both at heavy populations will help with that.

One might also plant sorghum around the outside which would make the costs much more reasonable.

As TP noted...fertilizer is very pricey making corn perhaps the single most expensive foodplot one could plant...only the best for the Doubletree deer though... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

[dbltree]

I got my RR corn/soybean field planted yesterday /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

I put on about 400# of 46-0-0 urea per acre (184#'s of actual nitrogen per acre)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Spreadingurea.jpg

The rye made some nice green manure to till in:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/04-30Rye.jpg

It's very important to disc in the urea right away or put it on ahead of a heavy rain like we had last week...tilling it in leaves no room for error:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Discing.jpg

Planted it with the JD 7000...beans first and then the corn:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/JD7000Planting.jpg

I planted 60# per acre of soys which figured out to a little less then 200,000 seeds per acre.

Add inoculant as well:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Inoculatethesoys.jpg

I planted the Forage Soybeans (http://www.eagleseed.com/forage.html) in the middle of the field using two seed hoppers so I'll have two rows of regular and two rows of forage beans:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Foragesoys.jpg

I then switched seed cups and planted RR corn at 32,000 per acre. I just followed slightly off my tire tracks to plant the corn rows about 4" off the bean rows.

38" rows leaves plenty of room.

Soil worked up well...now I just need to get it sprayed. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cornandsoysplanted40-30.jpg

[huntdoc]

You better put an armed guard out there after last years result!

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You better put an armed guard out there after last years result! </div></div>

I'm hoping for perfect weather, rapid growth and plenty of lush green forage from my oats, triticale, clover and peas to keep them from destroying it.

The other day my son and I walked along the edge of the timber...discussing where he should till some new plots.

A few deer jumped up, so we stopped to watch. We were dumfounded to see wave after wave of deer run out the end...my best guess is somewhere around 50 deer /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

That might not be much for several hundred acres...but on 80 acres I'm not sure I have even a glimmer of hope.

Hoping for the best....
expecting the worst....

[dbltree]

I was able to get my corn/bean combo sprayed with Dual Magnum 2 (http://www.syngentacropprotection-us.com/pdf/labels/SCP818AL1M0204n.pdf) before the rain.

Calls for 1.3 to 2.5 pints per acre so I used 2 pints per acre. Dual Magnum is a pre-emergent herbicde and works best if either lightly incorporated by tillage 2" deep or a good rain shortly after planting.

Got lucky on that one...rained all night and half the day! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

It's not a "cure all" but hopefully will help me with foxtail control and I'll nuke it a couple times with RUP as needed.

Our $30 sprayer &lt; /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/00gallonsprayer.jpg

[nannyslayer]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

It's not a "cure all" but hopefully will help me with foxtail control and I'll nuke it a couple times with RUP as needed.

</div></div>

It does great for foxtail, I think you will like it.

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

It's not a "cure all" but hopefully will help me with foxtail control and I'll nuke it a couple times with RUP as needed.

</div></div>

It does great for foxtail, I think you will like it. </div></div>

Whew! I was afraid you were going to tell me I wasted a hundred bucks a gallon! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Hope it still works after the "monsoons" we've been having... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

[nannyslayer]

As long as it was on the ground 2-4 hours before the rain, you'll be fine (2 hours dry soil, 4 hours moist soil).

[dbltree]

[ QUOTE ]
As long as it was on the ground 2-4 hours before the rain, you'll be fine (2 hours dry soil, 4 hours moist soil).

[/ QUOTE ]

It was more like 36 hours on dry soil so I should be ok on that...good info to know in the future though! http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

It's not a "cure all" but hopefully will help me with foxtail control and I'll nuke it a couple times with RUP as needed.

</div></div>

It does great for foxtail, I think you will like it. </div></div>

So far I'm very pleased! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/RRcorn5-15.jpg

Clean as a whistle so far and you can see the double rows of RR corn and soybeans /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

We had plenty of sub-surface moisture but this rain will sure help things along!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/RRcornnsoys.jpg

Little hard to keep the soys as close to the corn as I wanted but not to shabby.

It doesn't matter at all except when spraying RUP later. Hard to fit tractor and sprayer tires between rows sometimes.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/RRcornsoys2.jpg

The only weeds I see germinating at this point appear to be velvetleaf so I'll monitor it and spray RUP when needed.

At this point the only wildlife damage appears to be from turkeys nipping the newly sprouted beans.

This rain should get them all up and growing...just in time for the deer to take over... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

[nannyslayer]

Looks better than most field corn around here. Look great. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

[dbltree]

The object of some of my long running threads is to provide as much complete info as possible that will always be available and hopefully answer questions on the subject for years to come.

On the subject of herbicide in RR corn and beasns...it is true that in many cases...escpecially beans that two applications of Roundup at 1 to 1/2 quarts per acre will take care of most weed problems.

In a continous corn/bean roatation or combination such as mine...with out residual or other types of herbicides one may eventually run in all types of problems.

Rotating crops certainly helps...no-till planting on sod has far less weed problems (just things to consider)

Looking back thru this thread you can see that with conventional corn, using atrazine based residual herbicide my corn was fairly free of weed problems:

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/513/771Shoulder_High_by_the_4th.jpg

However when I switched to a Roundup only program my field quickly went from this:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/RRCornnSoybeans30days.jpg

to this:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Seaoffoxtail.jpg

Of course had I watched it more closely it shouldn't have gotten that carried away but the fact is I still sprayed it 3 times and when I finally disced it down it was already 2 feet high!

This year using Dual Magnum which is a residual safe for both corn and soybeans (at a cost of approx. $22.50 and acre) my corn and beans looked like this on Friday may 19th:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cleancorn.jpg

My field is clean with not even a hint of foxtail at this point.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/RRcornbeans19days.jpg

What you see in this pic is a few remmenants of the rye I disced down and a little velevtleaf which will be easily dealt with when I spray RUP...hopefully at a point when it's closer to some canopy.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/RRcornsoys19days.jpg

Earlier in this thread I mentioned that soybean planting depth is better on the shallower side at approx 3/4" and corn approx 1 1/2" deep.

I planted all of mine at 1 1/2 and we had several pounding rains that crusted the soil.

The beans are breaking thru but as mentioned in another thread they do indeed break their necks trying to bust thru the crust.

Plant a little shallower if possible.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/RRcornsoysdblerows.jpg

I'm having some light deer/turkey damage around the exterior of the field but so far it hasn't been to serious:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Nippedcorn.jpg

They have plenty of oats, peas, clover and alflafa surrounding my field...still no assurance that they won't eventually wipe it out.

If we get plenty of moisture along with my high nitrogen rate, hopefully it will out grow thier nightly "raids" /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

[huntdoc]

How is the damage these days? Wondered if they had started pounding your field yet, or if the corn could get up enough to stay ahead of them.

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How is the damage these days? Wondered if they had started pounding your field yet, or if the corn could get up enough to stay ahead of them. </div></div>

I don't have much time these days but I've been wanting to post these pics. They are from early June but you can see that the Dual Magnum 2 worked on it's own and the high levels of nitrogen along with timely rains got the corn up and beyond the the "deer damage" stage.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/S5000102.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/S5000103.jpg

The soys we're taking a beating

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/S5000104.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/S5000105.jpg

No need for roundup...field stayed pretty clean uing the Dual.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/S5000111.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/S5000112.jpg

Might be quite a while before I get to check it again but I think that using Dual Magnum and Roundup as a back up is a way to make the corn/soybean combo work.

[huntdoc]

Thanks for stopping by DB. Take care, and field looks great! Hope all are doing well.

[dbltree]

Big difference in my RR corn/bean plot this year! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

Lot's of nitrogen, Dual Magnum herbicide and timely rain made it work.

Still lot's of deer damage...they have really worked it over and have kept the soys from amounting to much but plenty of ears have made it and the plot should be an excellent draw this fall.

The pics will show damage but also very few weeds:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/S5000202.jpg

Plenty of ears:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/S5000203.jpg

They sure hammered some areas where they first hit the field /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/S5000198.jpg

Can't blame it on the coons either /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/S5000201.jpg

Only weeds in the field are shown...I'm not a "weed expert" (Bonker...where are you... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif )but I think that's velvetleaf?

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/S5000204.jpg

The soys have been hammered hard since they sprouted:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/S5000205.jpg

If one doesn't have the high deer numbers that I do then I think you'll find that the RR corn/soybean combo will work to provide maximum forage on limited acres. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/S5000206.jpg

In the end I never used a drop of Roundup so by using Dual Magnum it's possible to plant conventional corn and beans together.

I like the RR option in case the residual herbicide fails but conventional seed is more readily available...often for free if using year old seed.

My main costs we're $100 acre for urea (46% nitrogen) and approx. $27 per acre for the Dual Magnum. (I split 2 1/2 gallons with a friend)

Seed corn came Pheasants Forever and the RR soybean seed was left over seed that cost me $15 bucks a bag maybe?

Plant it...they will come! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

[dbltree]

I think it's time for me to throw in the towel as far as growing corn foodplots in my area...just too many deer http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Corn did great!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Goodcorn.jpg

The Dual Magnum 2 did the job and the corn and beans were nice and clean:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/CleanCorn-1.jpg

but they have already stripped the entire of field... http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cobsnkernals.jpg

Nuthin but empty cobs on the ground...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Nuthinbutcobs.jpg

and empty husks on the stalks

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/EmptyHusks.jpg

no doubt about the culprits with the ground covered with deer "sign" http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Culpritsign.jpg

The soys did ok with the Eagle Soys holding their own the best but the pressure is just to great...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Eaglesoys.jpg

They just keep them mowed...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soysincorn.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soyscloseup.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/RRsoys.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soysinthecorn.jpg

Very few we're allowed to develop pods

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Fewpods.jpg

but a few did

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Morepods.jpg

RR corn and soys will work, no doubt about that although I liked the Dual Magnum 2 much better with RUP for a backup.

In my case deer densities are just so extremely high that corn and soybeans are just not an option. Small grains and brassicas are much cheaper and better able to withstand the heavy grazing.

If anyone had any questions or pics of their own regarding either corn or soybeans...please share and add to this thread.

[nannyslayer]

Paul, I didn't go back and look, but what number of corn did you put in? Maybe if you went with a longer day corn like a 117-118 day corn, that may delay the little critters long enough until bow season. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Still, the plot looked good and I told you that you would like how the Dual would control the Foxtail.

[Soybean Man]

Dbtree, do you think my RR viny types would help? We bred the wild viny type to our RR forage type and have a very aggressive RR viny type that looks great in our plots in combination with our RR forage soybean and corn. I have some pictures of the soybean climbing the corn over 6.5 feet tall. The biggest problem I see with the corn/soybean mix is competition for sunlight early on. This is the reason for a short day corn and long season soybean. The corn will do its thing early on and the soybeans stay vegetative and continue to stay green and growing. Looks like you have achieved your goal of providing a summer plot that kept the deer eating on your property instead of just a pretty, unused green plot.

[huntdoc]

DB how big was that field? That is amazing..... It is a wonder anyone could farm around there.

[TimberPig]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DB how big was that field? That is amazing..... It is a wonder anyone could farm around there. </div></div>

Wow, cant believe they ate that much already! How close is the nearest ag field? What are you going to do now, disk it under and plant rye?

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DB how big was that field? That is amazing..... It is a wonder anyone could farm around there. </div></div>

Wow, cant believe they ate that much already! How close is the nearest ag field? What are you going to do now, disk it under and plant rye? </div></div>

6 acres /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

Actually they ate many of the ears while they were green (and it wasn't coons...they rip the stalk down, these ears were "bitten" or pulled off)

That tells me that ealier or later corn would make no difference in my situation.

I could see the "viney" soys being an advantage for anyone with a "lessor" deer population so I would consider that.

There were some spots that had some foxtail and the beans there were much taller so I don't feel that the corn inhibited the soybean growth...deer alone were responsible for that /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

I planted rye in plots next to the corn for this fall as they do love the cover that corn provides.

Thoughts on Forage Soybeans (http://www.iowawhitetail.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=243259#Post243259)

Calibrating Drills for Soybean Production (http://web1.msue.msu.edu/soybean2010/Drill%20Calibration.pdf)

Maybe I should sell that 80..."For Sale...80 acres with TOO MANY DEER" /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

[huntdoc]

I wondered if you would leave the stalks up for cover. It may still serve a purpose when the bullets fly.

[JNRBRONC]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wondered if you would leave the stalks up for cover. It may still serve a purpose when the bullets fly. </div></div>

With that many deer around, I think I'd be shooing them to the neighbors when the bullets start to fly! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

[dbltree]

If anyone is planting corn or RR corn and soys together...please let us know how it does but I just can't go the high cost of putting corn in anymore. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

I disked down the last cornstalks my place probally will see for sometime...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/DiskingStalks.jpg

Nice tire huh... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Discingstalks.jpg

I disked it twice...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Seedbed.jpg

and then decided to try something new just for the heck of it...

RR soybeans and forage oats! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/RRSobeansandforageoats.jpg

I got to thinking that maybe the oats will keep the deer happy (and confused) while the beans are small and then I can kill the oats/weeds with Roundup later...hey, you never know until you try!

Trying a bushier type soybean from nannyslayer that will draw deer from miles around...ohhh...that's right, they already come here from miles around... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/RRSoybeans.jpg

Note the information on the bag like "seeds per pound" to determine seeding rates. I tried for 200,000 seeds per acre because it gets pounded so hard.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/SoyInfo.jpg

I used soybean inoculate fro Welters...

just a dab of water with it and it will stick to the seed.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/SoybeanInoculant.jpg

Reading back thru this thread will give you plenty of other planting information about both soybeans and corn and planting the two together.

I love corn but with nitrogen doubling in price every year, it's out of the question. Soybeans are a legume and are still a great draw if one can plant them where deer won't kill them in the early stages.

We'll see what happens... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

[Field Service]

I put in a couple RR C/B combo acres this past Sat. On three of the four plots I mowed stocks, brocasted N and seed and tilled. On the 4th plot I skipped the mowing and tilled standing stocks (it's a long story). /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif Then brocasted N / seed, and retilled. Unfortunately several hours later close to 3" of rain hammered my "gopher mound" like plots! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif

I'm sure some/most of the seed and N is down stream at the neighbors and what is still left at my place will be under a terrible crust. Probably 2 acres of the finest looking mud pies one has ever seen.

I'll post in a week if anything comes up. Haven't had the heart to go check them out yet...

I'm just really really glad my farming skills/luck do not support my check book. I work to support my farming habit.... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

[Skully]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Field Service</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm just really really glad my farming skills/luck do not support my check book. I work to support my farming habit.... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif
</div></div>

Ain't that the truth! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif It would have been cool to farm back when you could make money doing it. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

[Fishbonker]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skully</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Field Service</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm just really really glad my farming skills/luck do not support my check book. I work to support my farming habit.... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif
</div></div>

Ain't that the truth! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif It would have been cool to farm back when you could make money doing it. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif </div></div>

And when exactly was that? /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

On a related question, when is it to late to plant soys for a food plot?

The 'Bonker

[Daver]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On a related question, when is it to late to plant soys for a food plot?
</div></div>

One of my all time best hunts was an early season muzzleloader hunt, so it had to be somewhere around Oct. 20th or so, on a still green, secluded bean field. In talking with the farmer responsible, he indicated that his first planting was washed out with rain and he planted this field a second time on JULY 4th.

Now then, I am not sure how the actual production turned out from a farming point of view, but from the standpoint of the local deer herd... this was THE field to be in. So I would say if you get some timely rains and so forth, you could easily go up to late June or so.

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> he planted this field a second time on JULY 4th.
</div></div>

I've planted beans in July before...long before roundup was even heard of... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif

I think the key is, either you want them green like Davers were or dried down but not drying down

When the leaves are turning they don't touch them so just plan around that and consider planting dates and maturity dates when buying seed.

Most of the forage types will stay green until frost where commercial grain type soys are bred to mature and dry down much earlier.

[shrek1]

After reading and looking at your pics Paul I'm wishing I would of went with dual instead of Buccaneer(Round-up). Does the Dual prevent me from going in July and overseeding with rye or brassica though?

[fullrut2]

I hada small 5 acre field planted on july 1st once.In aug one morning there were 16 bucks in that field and hour after sunup.deer would come out and feed in that spot at 1 in the afternoon.Every deer in the area was on that late plot.
this year I'm going with the forage soybeans.

[Soybean Man]

Here are two methods of keeping soybeans green up to frost. Delay planting, which will decrease height and total tonnage produced, but will be green longer than the same variety planted earlier. Or plant a much later maturing forage soybean that can be planted as early as any soybean, produce twice as much forage per acre, and will stay green up till the first few frosts. Your end goal should be to maximize nutrition for your entire summer growing season to increase body weight. Over several years, hopefully you will reap the rewards.

[PYBucks]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Or plant a much later maturing forage soybean</div></div>

Do you have an example or seed name?

I have a really wet area that I have given up on trying to grow corn in. I'm going to wait a couple more weeks before planting beans.

Tim

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PYBucks</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Or plant a much later maturing forage soybean</div></div>

Do you have an example or seed name?

I have a really wet area that I have given up on trying to grow corn in. I'm going to wait a couple more weeks before planting beans.

Tim </div></div>

You can check with your local seed dealer and just ask for a later maturing soybean. If I remember correctly I believe that the larger number reflects a later maturity date but someone can correct me on that if I'm wrong.

For instance a 4.3 would be earlier and a 7 would be much later, as noted in the quote below taken from this link: Soy Varieties (http://cache.search.yahoo-ht2.akadns.net/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=soybean+maturity+dates&fr=b1ie7&u=www.soybeans.umn.edu/pdfs/regional/nw/2004SoybeanVarietyResearch_NWMN.pdf&w=soybean+soybeans+%22soy+bean%22+maturity+dates+d ate&d=bntykjWxQn5X&icp=1&.intl=us)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The scale used was (maturity) score 1 = mature. 5= some frozen
leaves on plant. 6 = frozen leaves were still green. 7= plant was fully green before killing
frost on Oct 1-2 </div></div>

Here's a few links:

Soybean Links (http://msucares.com/crops/soybeans/)

Forage Soybeans (http://www.eagleseed.com/forage.html)

I believe there is information in the "code" on the bag but any seed dealer will be able to help you with a later maturing soybean seed. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/SoyInfo.jpg

[nannyslayer]

Soybean numbers reflect the maturity range. Example, the beans that Dbltree posted are S28-G1, which means 2.8 bean. If you can't find a forage type bean, ask your local seed dealer for a later maturity (for Iowa, 3.7-3.9 is a late maturity) bean that is for wide row planting. This will ensure that you get a good "bushy type" bean, which can handle foraging, yet still produce a pod for late winter feed.

[dbltree]

Nannyslayer has some soybean inoculant inventory that he would like to have a little less of...so if anyone is in need please send Brian a p.m.

$9.00 will get a bag of inoculant shipped to your house and it will do about 5 bags of seed.

This link explains the need for inoculant if soybeans haven't been grown there in recent years.

Inoculating Legumes (http://msucares.com/pubs/infosheets/is1083.htm)

Inoculant is cheap insurance and is easy to mix with seed. Check the link for mixing instructions.

[dbltree]

My RR soybeans from nannyslayer that I planted roughly a month ago are up and growing! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/RRsoybeans06-01.jpg

As I posted in earlier in this thread I broadcast them at roughly 220,000 seeds per acre because I expect heavy grazing, mortality and uneven germination because they were not drilled.

I planted them with forage oats that I hope will "feed" the deer and allow the soys to grow.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/RRsoysnoats.jpg

A "green" field makes them a little less noticable then if they were in nice neat, clean rows that deer seem to love "mowing" /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/RRsoysnoats06-01-08.jpg

I wasn't able to find any evidence of deer grazing on the newly emerged soybean plants and they seem to be thriving! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/RRsoy6-1.jpg

There is "baby" foxtail starting to come up, so my plan is to monitor weed growth along with the oats and RR soys and spray RUP when I have to but not a moment before.

I want the oats there as a diversion as long as possible and I hope they will help inhibit (shade) weed growth for a while also.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Babyfoxtail.jpg

Oats and soybeans is something I haven't seen before but deer love those new oats and they are certainly less expensive then soybeans...low cost insurance I'm hoping.

As I have noted in other thread...soybeans are just another option that requires no nitrogen which greatly reduces the cost of inputs verus corn for instance. They can be difficult to grow in small hidden plost as deer will decimate them unless...this oat/soy combo works out!

Note: Remember nannyslayer has some soybean inoculate at a decent price if your have some late beans yet to put in. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

[nannyslayer]

dbltree, you have any updated pictures of the pea's and soybeans? Just wondering how they are doing with the oats in with them.

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nannyslayer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">dbltree, you have any updated pictures of the pea's and soybeans? Just wondering how they are doing with the oats in with them. </div></div>

I'll post some this coming week Brian /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

[dbltree]

Despite the forage oats (which have been grazed very hard) I think they are still being pretty hard on the RR soybeans.

They look healthy and nice color but close inspection shows that deer have still been feeding on them.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Grazedsoys.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Grazingonsoys.jpg

The oats don't seem to be hindering growth partly because they have been grazed so hard also.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Moresoysnotas.jpg

I had to really get down and visually inspect the soys but it seemed rare not to find a plant that hadn't been nipped

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Nippedsoys.jpg

Some have pretty good growth mostly where the oats are heavier or ungrazed.


http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/SoybeanHt6-28.jpg

Some pics of the soys and oats together:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/SoybeansnOats.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/SoysnOats2.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/SoysnOats3.jpg

Of course there is foxtail coming up as well although not nearly as bad as I expected.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Foxtail.jpg

I have a feeling that the minute I kill the other growth that deer will mow the soys however if wait to long to spray then weeds will take over and inhibit growth.

The whole idea with RR soys is to spray just ahead of a point when the soys will canopy and inhibit further weed growth.

I'm thinking I will wait until the end of the week at least and if they "kill" the soys then I'll have time the end of the summer to replant to rye.

Nannyslayer can give us his thoughts on timing of spraying RR soybeans and I'll post comparison pics of the field peas later also.

[nannyslayer]

Timing can be tricky on Soybeans, especially this year. Rule of thumb is 30 days after planting, beans will canopy. This has not held true this year due to wet and cool conditions. So basically, watch your beans, and you will want to spray BEFORE canopy, to ensure a good kill on weeds. Also, types of beans you plant and row width in which they are planted will give way on when beans will canopy.

[dbltree]

I nuked the weeds in the RR soybeans I got from Nannyslayer a couple weeks ago.

Mixing them with the oats worked great...for awhile /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/RRsoysnoats-1.jpg

Just as I feared...soon as I killed the weeds they started pounding the soys.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soys7-24.jpg

The oats protected them at first

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/RRsoybeans-1.jpg

but in this pic you can see they have literally pounded even the oats to stubble compared with the peas and oats on either side of the rr beans.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Poundedbeans.jpg

Every soybean plant is nipped

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Nippedsoys-1.jpg

and grazed hard

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Grazedsoys-1.jpg

These were taken today...July 24th

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/July24soys.jpg

Every plant I looked at had been bitten off

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Bittensoys.jpg


I don't see any hope of these soybeans being able to provide any kind of a fall attractant but that is not the fault of the beans.

The whole plot is covered with beds and even with all the different types of food sources I have surrounding these beans, deer obviously LOVE these beans!

Compared to other soys these forage type beans have fared much better so if you have a larger plot to plant and/or less deer density then I do, give nannyslayers rr soybean seed a try.

Good stuff but just not invincable... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

I'll leave these for a few more weeks but I think I'll end up tilling them under and planting a rye/oats combo.

When all else fails...plant rye! Hell, high water and 30 deer per acre won't matter...that rye will still be there clean thru winter and next spring they'll still be lovin' it! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

[dbltree]

I have tried plenty of soybeans including the Eagle brand soys which did well under the circumstances. The only problem I see with those is shipping... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

The forage soybeans I got from nannyslayer however have impressed me like no other...deer absoutely love these beans and they almost survived!! I think if I had 5-6 acres of them they would have worked so keep nanny in mind if your interested in planting RR forage soybeans next spring!

I'm going to till mine under next week just because the deer have decimated them to the point that they will not provide any fall feed so here are some pics before I do.

They never were allowed to canopy so velvetleaf(?) is coming up in them otherwise the intial RUP spraying worked well.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/SoybeansnVelvetleaf.jpg

Some areas where I didn't kill the oats they were protected longer...the oats didn't seem to interfer with the soys in anyway and deer fed on the oats until the got to mature.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/SoybeansinOatStraw.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/ForageSoybeans.jpg

You can see in many of these pics that despite the heavy grazing they continued to develop pods even inches from the ground!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/ForageSoybeans2.jpg

I can only imagine what they would have been capable of with lighter grazing thru the summer.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/ForageSoys3.jpg

I like soys because they can witstand, even thrive in our hot, humid and sometimes dry summers.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/ForageSoys4.jpg

Every soybean field around is covered up with deer right now and after they dry down they'll be right back in them!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/AugustPods.jpg

I hope some of you that either have less pressure or larger acreages will contact Brian about planting these beans next year...I think you'll be impressed with them! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

[nannyslayer]

Looks like you have plenty of buttons weeds to boot. If deer would only heat those /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Well, I'm glad they "almost" worked for you.

[fullrut2]

I tried the eagle soybeans this year myself.
they seem to resist grazing pretty well.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/fullrut2/101_0272.jpg

[bbloom96]

Isn't there an EAGLE seed deeler in Grainger, IA? That could save on shipping.

[BOWSTRING]

When is a good time to get leftover corn and soybeans cheap?
I want to try a mix this spring where I got my rye,rape and turnips planted now. Hopefully I can get in and make it a little bigger by spring. How much seed would I need? It'll only be maybe half an acre. I'll have to broadcast the seed and try to dics it in some. Probably not the best way to do it but it'll have to do because there's no way to get real equipment in there.

[Central Iowa]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Isn't there an EAGLE seed deeler in Grainger, IA?</div></div>
For the Eagle soys give Terry with Midwest Food Plots an email or pm.

PM midwestfoodplots (http://www.iowawhitetail.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showprofile&User=6155)

Midwest Food Plots (http://www.midwestfoodplots.com/)

[midwestfoodplots]

Hey guys I've been out of touch for several weeks, but if any of you need the Eagle Soybeans, I'll have them next year again.

[dbltree]

Little "frosty" out right now at minus 20 give or take but still we want to start thinking about soil fertility requirments for both soys and corn.

Here's some good links to more information on what we need to test for and why.

Soybean Nutrient Requirements (http://extension.agron.iastate.edu/soybean/production_soilfert.html)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 11pt'>Soybean Nutrient Requirements</span>


<span style="color: #CC0000"><span style='font-size: 11pt'>Fertilizing prior to soybean production is not a common practice in Iowa. Nutrient deficiencies in soybean are rare and current recommendations in Iowa are to apply additional nutrients only if soil tests indicate that a specific nutrient is at a low concentration or if deficiencies are identified in the field.</span></span>

Deficiencies are rare even though the soybean plant requires more nitrogen than corn, and as a result can fix up to 50% of its own nitrogen.

</div></div>

Generally most ag operations rotate between corn and soybeans and maintain high fertility levels when planting corn and then do not need any when planting beans.

In a food plot situation this may not be the case so a soil test is the best way to tell.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 11pt'>Essential Nutrients</span>

Specific nutrients such as nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P), and potassium (K) are the three most important soil supplied nutrients and are called essential nutrients. There are several other nutrients important for plant growth such as calcium (Ca), magnesium (Mg), iron (Fe), boron (B), manganese (Mn), zinc (Zn), copper (Cu), and molybdenum (Mo) that are needed at much lower concentrations and are limiting only in certain environments.

</div></div>


PH is very important to soybeans and maintaining it through soil testing and lime applications is also important.

Soybeans - Liming and Fertilization (http://msucares.com/pubs/infosheets/is0873.htm)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Soybeans grow best on soils of medium to high fertility and with a favorable soil pH

Soil testing is critical for determining fertility needs. Soybeans require moderate amounts of plant food for high yields. A 30-bushel yield removes 24 pounds of phosphate and 42 pounds of potash in the grain per acre. Some soils are high in fertility and can supply everything the plant needs; however, many soils require supplemental fertility for maximum production.

</div></div>

Fertilizer Recommendations For Soybeans (http://www.ianrpubs.unl.edu/epublic/pages/publicationD.jsp?publicationId=146)

Even though we are not harvesting our beans, not all of it is being "deposited" back in our food plots so some additional fertlizer may be required.

Soil sampling and fertility management (http://www.clemson.edu/edisto/soybeans/fertility/)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style='font-size: 11pt'>Soil sampling</span>

Plant nutrient applications through fertilizer and/or lime should be based on soil tests. Soil tests help to determine the soil pH and nutrient levels, and thus any need for lime and/or fertilizer applications. </div></div>

[dbltree]

Soybeans aren't for everyone but for those having problems attracting deer to brassicas (for instance) soybeans are a pretty good food source to consider.

I like soybeans because the offer so many options, especially the fact that one can broadcast winter rye and/or brassicas into standing soys in late August.

For that type of plan I would consider more "normal" early ripening soys that will drop leaves early allowing light to the rye and brassicas.

Of course for the month of September while leaves are turning and dropping, deer are going to avoid the plot like the plague!

My concern is not October however...it's November, December and January so that is something to consider when planting forage soybeans. They provide a tremendous amount of high quality forage right up until freeze...then however, they drop leaves right smack in the middle of prime time hunting.

Eagle brand forage soybeans is working on a mix of early and late that might help with that problem but forage soys are so thick and tall rye and brassicas would have almost no chance of growing.

No right or wrong, just options to consider depending on your habitat needs.

I really like nannyslayers "bush" type RR soybeans and the did pretty darn good despite being hammered hard by my deer.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/ForageSoybeans2.jpg

They produced loads of beans despite the heavy grazing, however I didn't have enough to be assured of late feed so I disced them under to plant rye and oats.

One option is to no-till into a field of rye making it difficult for deer to feed on the new soy plants until they get larger and the rye begins to fall.

The rye will eventually fall and and seed will germinate again in late summer if one gets plenty of rain. One needs to spray roundup ahead of any re-seeding efforts of course... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

By using Dual Magnum then soybeans, peas and sourghum can be mixed together with the sorghum providing a screen and an "obstacle" to deer trying to ravage new soy plants.

Eagle Brand soys also has a vining type soy that will grow up corn, sorghum and sunflowers making that a great option as well.

Nannyslayer tells me his soys will run roughly $38-40 a bag while Eagle could be much higher due to shipping costs but for some the forage attributes may be well worth the extra costs.

Eagle Seed Forage Soybeans (http://www.eagleseed.com/forage.html)

I have purchased year old RR soybeans for $15 a bag so check your local seed dealer for bargain priced seed also.

I like to plant 200,000 to 220,000 seeds per acre which is a little on the high side. Seeds per pound can vary but using 2800 seeds per pound a 50# bag would have 140,000 seeds in it.

Roughly 1 to 1-1/2 bags of soybean seed then will plant an acre.

If you choose the RR varieties, generic glyphosate looks like it will run just under $40 a gallon in 2009.

As noted in the previous post, take a soil test anytime now to determine soil fertility needs as soy ground often needs lime and potash.

All of that is way less expensive then planting corn since no nitrogen is needed.

Lots of options with soybeans and it's unlikely you'll have to worry about deer not eating them... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

[petherss]

A quick question for those who have tried corn/soy plots. I am thinking about broadcasting instead of planting in rows. I just don't have the equipment to plant in rows and I honestly want the corn more for cover than anything. I know it's a shotgun method where you'll have pockets of heavy corn and light corn.

My question lies in spraying for weeds. Obviously I am going with RR corn/soys, but I've read that a lot of people who broadcast then spray once weeds become an issue......wouldn't running a tractor and spray rig over the corn/soys kill them? or will they pop back up? Thanks

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've read that a lot of people who broadcast then spray once weeds become an issue......wouldn't running a tractor and spray rig over the corn/soys kill them? or will they pop back up? </div></div>

It won't hurt the soys and some folks claim they run over corn with ATV sprayers and it "bounces" back...could be so, but my tractor crushes corn if I run over it so I try not to do so.

I have sprayed up to an acre with my backpack sprayer to avoid running over older corn/soybeans.

Even if you break some down you should still have plenty left so go ahead and broadcast...no worries there!

Please share some pics with us as your plot progesses this summer /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

[Riley17]

Like the people that already responded there are a couple of companies offering a corn/bean mix. I think thi sis ideal for Iowa! However, I read on the bag the percentage of corn and it was very low. My friends in South Dakota offer a product called CanaMaize, it is a grazing corn. It's high in flint and very digestable. It grows to only 4.5 to 5 feet high and can handle the pressure of planting with say a 70 day bean. I would mix 1 to 1. In addition some try to broadcast. Thi scan be expensive! With the small seed size of CanaMize you can go ahead and drill it righ tin with the beans. Go to http://www.canamaizeus.com for more info. It works!

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Which row width is best for soybeans? </div></div>

Farmers are always tweaking things like that so any number of answers are possible but here but here's what ISU has to say on the subject. Row spacing (http://extension.agron.iastate.edu/soybean/production_spacing.html)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 11pt'>In most cases, there is no difference between 7.5, 10, 15, or 20 inch row spacing and anything less than 30 inch is therefore consider narrow row spacing.

Most of these studies have concluded that planting soybean in narrow rows will increase yields with the largest increases in yield occurring in the northern Corn Belt. </span> </div></div>

I have a 4 row JD no-till planter with 38" row spacings so I go over it twice planting inbetween the first rows.

If you have a drill it will most likely have 7.5 inch spacings which is also fine, just adjust the seed per acre to keep it somewhere between 140,000 to 220,000 seeds per acre.

Seeding rate can vary down to as low as 100,000 seeds per acre but generally food plot soybeans get hit pretty hard, so upping planting rates to high end levels will be fine.

Soybean Update (http://www.vaes.org.vt.edu/TAREC/holshouser/soybeanup/9905/9905.html)

Soybean Seeding Rate and Row Width Effect on Yield (http://www.extension.org/pages/Soybean_Seeding_Rate_and_Row_Width_Effect_on_Yield )

[petherss]

Ok guys, need some help. I have been wanting to buy a corn planter for awhile now. I know someone that is wanting to sell his planter. I know nothing about them. He says this planter has been stored for the last 5 years and the previous owner stored it for 10+ years before that. It looks to be in decent shape (especially since it looks like an older model). Does this look to be in decent shape to you? Any ideas on the model? The guy said he doesn't know exactly, but thought it might be a model 71? Also, any ballpark guess on what it is worth? Thanks!!

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/513/medium/JDplanter2.JPG

[dbltree]

Looks like a 71 to me

here's a pic of one all painted up

http://www.wengers.com/pictures/webimages/62934-4.jpg

They wanted $3000 for that one BTW /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif

It will have plates I believe so you just need to get plates to match the seed or vice versa.

Should be a great little planter! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

[Skully]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbltree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like a 71 to me

here's a pic of one all painted up

http://www.wengers.com/pictures/webimages/62934-4.jpg

They wanted $3000 for that one BTW /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif
</div></div>

WOW that green paint is expensive!!!! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Wonder what it cost back in the day when it was new?

[petherss]

$3,000?? Wow. So I guess $350 is a decent deal eh? I see planters that have been gone thru and painted anywhere from $850-$1200 but haven't seen too many sold the way they are. Is there anything that goes wrong with these that I need to watch for? springs/bearings that need greasing etc?

[Critter]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbltree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like a 71 to me

here's a pic of one all painted up

http://www.wengers.com/pictures/webimages/62934-4.jpg

They wanted $3000 for that one BTW /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif


</div></div>

You gotta' be kidding me.............

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BUCKCRACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">$3,000?? Wow. So I guess $350 is a decent deal eh? I see planters that have been gone thru and painted anywhere from $850-$1200 but haven't seen too many sold the way they are. Is there anything that goes wrong with these that I need to watch for? springs/bearings that need greasing etc? </div></div>

It's unreal what these planters go for...just cause of foodplotters! I paid $1250 for my 4 row JD no-till plateless planter but I suspect many of those would sell for 2-3 times that now.

You going to have a couple chains and a few grease zerks now doubt but nothing you can't fix up.

For $350...you can by a LOT of parts! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Just go pickup some spare chain links and you shouldn't have any major problems... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

Here's a couple online ads......

JD 7000 Planters (http://www.sandsequipment.com/equipment/search_results.htm?locationheader=&showcustomerheader=&tablerollover=&customerid=160&adv=&equiptype=133&subtype=0&equipmake=77&model=7000&submit=Locate)

The planters in this ad are an older type with a "shoe"

Ebay Source (http://stores.ebay.com/KSFARMS_Other_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZQ2d1QQfsubZ1QQftidZ1Q QtZkm)

2 row JD 7000 (http://cgi.ebay.com/John-Deere-2-row-planter-7000-model-units-NOTILL_W0QQitemZ370153423992QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item370153423992&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50)

Here's one for 900 bucks...

JD 71 Planter (http://cgi.ebay.com/John-Deere-71-Two-Row-Planter-Corn-Food-Plot-Deer-2-JD_W0QQitemZ120375347209QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defa ultDomain_0?hash=item120375347209&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50)

This shows planter depth adjustment in the front

http://i24.ebayimg.com/08/i/001/2f/26/5811_1.JPG

Looks pretty simple to me! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

[Sligh1]

QUESTION/SCENARIO: I have FOUR acres I have limed and fertilized in the middle of my farm that I am going to drill round-up ready soybeans in. Because it's so secluded and there's so many deer- it is going to get HAMMERED!

When do you feel I should plant the beans to give them the best shot at making it: Before others have beans planted, early (probably make mine the only target), when everyone else plants their beans OR after most other beans are planted by neighbors?

Is there any other thoughts you have for quick or long maturing beans, seed rate (probably 36 inch rows BUT plant DOUBLE so 18" rows), etc. My GOAL is to have as many pods left in late December/January as possible without deer destroying before then.

(enough acres with 4? It is fertilized like crazy. Ever consider that plot saver stuff?).

Thanks!!!

[waltrogers]

Skip, From what I've seen in Ms, late planted beans get hammered. My guess is that they are the best tasting thing around if planted late in the season after most beans are planted. I've seen early planted beans do quite well and I assume there are other things in the woods that the deer prefer early in the year. I've seen a couple of late planted bean crops (planted for deer) get decimated while a field 400 yards away and planted earlier in the year for agricultural purposes, does fine.

Headed to Iowa in a few minutes!

[dbltree]

My GOAL is to have as many pods left in late December/January as possible without deer destroying before then.


Good luck with that...;):rolleyes::D

That's my goal too but they murder 6 acres at my place long before hunting season and I plant 220,000 seeds per acre...bout as high as you can go!

If the field is protected they'll be all over it but it's always hard to say for sure.

I'd take Walt's advice and get em planted so they have 1/2 a chance...:)

[dbltree]

Got my soybeans no-till planted on May 12th 2009 with my JD 7000 and my friends Big Red :way:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/May12th09SoybeanPlanting.jpg

Because I have very high deer density and it's a hidden field I planted a very high population in excess of 250,000 seeds per acre! :shock: Deer will hammer these beans hard however so I'll be lucky if any survive at all let alone have to worry about "overcrowding"... ;)

3230 seeds per pound (note the seeds per # is always listed on the bag) gave me 161,500 seeds per bag.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/3230Seedcount.jpg

A friend borrowed it last year and "poured" seed from it so I always check to see if seed is coming out and how thick right in the driveway where seeds will be exposed.

Too thick!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Toothick.jpg

The 7000 has a "driver" sprocket and then adjustable "driven" sprockets and a chart in the book that tells me the combination needed to plant the desired #'s per acre.

Which left the seed coming out like this...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Properspacing.jpg

[dbltree]

It's an older wide row planter with spacings set at 38" so I go over the field twice when planting soybeans. The field was in rye last year and parts of it I sowed red clover in last fall as well. I noticed last year that soybeans grew quite well where I over planted into a clover patch, so I no-till planted right into the rye and clover.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/RyenRC.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Redcloverinrye.jpg

The rye was broadcast on untilled ground and some places it's not very thick and there is no clover, so I'll be able to compare.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Ryenoclover.jpg

The soil was reasonably dry so the rows were barely visable

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Notillbeans.jpg

[dbltree]

The tire marks in the rye and clover were the only telltale signs I had been there

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Notilledbeansinryemay12.jpg

My hope is that the rye and clover will protect the soybeans at first from heavy grazing and then eventually I'll nuke it all with roundup. I'm planning on re-broadcasting rye into the standing soybeans in late summer so have a combination of grain (soybeans) and green (cereal rye) this fall.

Some area's a triple planted to use up the seed putting the population up in excess of 330,000 seeds per acre, I realy expect deer to mow them anyway however so we'll keep tabs on them and see how they do. ;)

[dbltree]

May 29th 2009...

Where the soys are exposed, they decimate them...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Nippedsoys.jpg

but...where they are hidden by the red clover they are still safe...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Soybeans5-29-09.jpg

Where it is rye only, they are also doing fine!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Soybeansinryeonly.jpg

The red clover is very thick and it's tough to find the little soybeans plants...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/SoyssproutinginRC.jpg

From above you wouldn't know it was even"planted"

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Soysplantedinredclover.jpg

The no-tilled rows are faint

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Soybeansno-tilledinryenredclover.jpg

but closer inspection reveals the baby soys

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/SoybeansinRC.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/SoybeansendofMay.jpg

I'm going to watch progress and not spray until I have too and because it's not tilled, it's really not a problem

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/5-29-09Soybeanplantinginrye.jpg

The rye isn't real thick as you can see here with my son standing in it so it's only the red clover competition I need to watch

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Heightofrye.jpg

[dbltree]

AJAdams sent me some pics of his soybeans...dang, if I had some great looking beans like his I would want to show them off too! :D

These beans have very good color while in the southern part of the state many beans are a little yellow from the cool wet weather. Some heat right now would be welcome.;)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/AjBeans3.jpg

It appears there are other crops close by which is helpful in keeping a bean plot from being decimated like mine.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/AJBeans4.jpg

I really expect mine to be murdered shortly but I'd love to find them looking like these!:way:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/AJBeans2.jpg

Deer densities vary across the state and even in any given section so it's always hard to predict how deer will respond to any type of food plot.

Sunday morning I counted 20+ deer in perhaps a 30 acre field of beans about the size of Andy's, put those 20 deer in a 2-5 acre plot and they will wipe it out in short order.

If they can survive however they will be an awesome draw in late fall thru winter.

Keep us posted on how these work for you this fall AJ :)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/AJBeans1.jpg

[ajadams]

These beans were planted into a plot that was turnips last winter that I put some rye and red clover in to plow down this spring. No other fertilizer was used, we will see how they do. Shrek 1 (Maximum forage food plots) planted them for me May 24 with a 2 row JD planter after I disced the plot several times. We have had good rain so hopefully we get a little more heat to help them grow. There is a few weeds and I am hoping to get it sprayed in the next week or so. There are beans on the other side of the fence so hopefully I will be safe.

Thanks for posting them for me Paul.

[dbltree]

As I noted in the clover thread, 1 -1/2 quarts of glyphosate (roundup) didn't even phase the red clover where I had no-tilled the soybeans! :eek:
I should have hit it with 2-3 quarts of 2-4D before the soybeans emerged!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/RedCloverinrye-1.jpg

A couple spots where I ran the sprayer over it twice it did severely burn the clover but otherwise it's now some very clean red clover :D

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/RedClovernokill.jpg

The cereal rye was already nearly mature so it's already nothing but stubble and had it not been for the severe damage cause by a horrific hail storm, the soys would have been protected for a time from heavy grazing pressure.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Ryestubble6-26-09.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Sosinstubble.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Soybeanrows.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/6-26Soysinkilledrye.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Soysndeadrye.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Soysinryestubble.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/SoysinlateJune.jpg

The soys in the red clover are struggling to comptete with thick mat of clover

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Soysnclover.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Soysinclover.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/SoysnRC.jpg

and anywhere they are exposed at all they are taking a beating from the intense grazing pressure from a very oversized deer herd.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Nippedsoys-1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Grazedsoys.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Grazedcloernbeans.jpg

I finally got around to putting up an exclusion cage to show how intense the grazing is. I planted nearly 300,000 seeds per acre on fertile soil but it's still not enough to feed the number of deer I have.

Grazing pressure is so intense that they have literally "mowed" my clover and alfalfa and if not for some weeds coming up I would never have even had to clip it.

No-tilling soybeans into cereal rye is a great method of planting and semi-protecting beans if one can plant beans in a less pressured situation. Broadcasting cereal rye back into the standing soybeans at 150#'s per acre in very late August thru early September will allow one to continue the process and insure an all winter source of food... ;)

[IQDM]

How do you add photos to threads without having that picture already online? cant I just add it from my documents? I have some good pictures of soybeans planted between corn but I cant seem to get them on here? whats the fast way to upload them onto threads?

[JNRBRONC]

How do you add photos to threads without having that picture already online? cant I just add it from my documents? I have some good pictures of soybeans planted between corn but I cant seem to get them on here? whats the fast way to upload them onto threads?
Nope, you can't upload direct from your hard drive. You have to host them somewhere, photobucket or IW gallery, etc.

[IQDM]

Here is a picture of some RRcorn and beans on our land in Wisconsin
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/pipping22/IMG_1283.jpg

[dbltree]

Here is a picture of some RRcorn and beans on our land in Wisconsin
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/pipping22/IMG_1283.jpg

SWEEEEET!!! That is awesome stuff right there!! Thanks a bunch for sharing the picture!:way:

[IQDM]

This is what this field looks like now.... Tons of winter food to help deer keep their fat reserves strong well into spring!


http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/pipping22/IMG00132.jpg

[dbltree]

This is what this field looks like now.... Tons of winter food to help deer keep their fat reserves strong well into spring!


http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/pipping22/IMG00132.jpg

That is just awesome! Thanks so much for sharing these pics in this thread!

I just have too many deer and they killed the beans leaving only the corn but yours is proof that RR corn and soybeans can be grown in a successful combination! :way:

[ILL BUCK]

IQDM, man that looks great!! How bout sharing some info about what kinda row spacing that is??

[IQDM]

The spacing is corn 15 inch soybeans 15 inch corn 15inch. so you still have your 30inch between your corn rows... I have a great plains drill which has row spacing every 7.5 inches. In the big seed box I cover every other seed drop with duct tape which gives me my 15inch row spacing then I cut out cardboard to the exact shape of the grain box to make dividers between every 15 inch seed drop (to seperate the corn seed and soybean seed). I then duct tape those dividers in, fill it with the two types of seed and away I go... The one nice thing about the drill I have however, is that I can adjust the depth of seed per row so that I can plant the corn at about a good inch down and the beans about a half inch. Like dbltree said a high deer density can distroy a nice plot like this, but I do a lot of work on keeping the density down and the buck to doe ratio even... My shotgun is just as much a tool for me as my chainsaw and great plains drill... because when we are rolling into march and the deer are still working on these corn and beans (corn will be gone first then beans) I know that they still have a good fat reserve when they start growing those all important headgears!

[bowhuntr311]

(corn will be gone first then beans)

I dont have alot of expierence with corn and beans but this suprises me. I figured the exact opposite. Do you do something special to keep the deer from mowing the beans down in the summer.
As Dbltree stated he and alot of people have to many deer to keep them from killing them off. And anyone has enough other food it would be dbltree I would think.

With 15in rows do you still spray RUP, with out running over your plants?

[IQDM]

I do spray with RoundUp when the corn and beans are about 6 to 8 inches tall... I drive in-between the corn rows and run over the beans... The beans will pop right back up in a few days and will have minimal damage.... obviously the larger sprayer you have the less rows you will need to run over. For example we have a 45' sprayer and I can do my 3 acre food plot in just a few passes.

When I say that the deer eat the corn first then the beans, I am talking about the winter months.... The corn just seems to be the first thing to be gone in the winter and then they hit the beans. Where I hunt there is often deep snows and so the deer tend to eat anything above the snow first. It's actually really great because with my beans (with or with out corn planted with them) the deer will clean out the whole field above the snow, then when the 12" of snow melts during a warm couple of days in mid to late winter, the deer have 12" of soybeans that are now exposed! I call it my TIME RELEASE food plot!

as for keeping the deer from eating our beans before they mature... I have tried a few different things to keep the deer away...
In one plot I have, the corn/beans were very close to heavy cover and as soon as the beans started comming up they (the beans) were basicly attacked by the deer and so I put up a plot saver fence to keep the deer out. For the most part it worked... I still saw tracks in the plot but not near as much as I had before and the main thing is that the beans were being allowed to mature. Later in the year however, a deer ran threw the fence and got all tangled up in the white fencing tape! So needless to say I will not be using a plotsaver system anymore! I will be looking into a solar/electric fencing system and will let you know how it works.
In another area I had a 1.5 acre plot of corn/beans and I also planted a 1.5 acre plot of just soybeans right next to it... while the plots were growing, I noticed more browse pressure in the strait beans which I would assume took a little pressure off of the beans in my corn/bean mix.
I would prefer not to fence the deer out of my plots because 1 I dont have the time to be doing all that extra work. and 2 I'm planting that food for the deer to eat, so if they want to eat my 28%+ protien soybeans while they are growing then thats ok with me... I just plant enough of it that they cant possibley eat it before it turns yellow.
Oh yeah and one other thing.... I shoot a crap-load of does! some people are against it. (especially around here) but I am a believer in QDM and a balanced deer herd which isn't over populated. over all thats prolly the main reason why my beans are sucessful.

[whitetail fanatic]

Has anyone else noticed that some of the standing corn now has mold growing on the kernals under the shucks? A lot of areas across the midwest, including here in southwest Wisconsin, had so much rain during October without enough dry days in between to dry the corn ears out that mold started growing on the kernals. I talked to one farmer that said he's never seen anything like it in all his years of growing corn. My question is, will this reduce the attractiveness of our standing corn food plot to deer, turkeys and other wildlife? Also, could the animals that eat this moldy corn get sick or be harmed in anyway? Our corn got planted a little later than we wanted (around the first of June) and the cold summer didn't help with maturity either. Our kernals were dented by the first hard freeze (23 degrees on October 11) but the stalks, leaves and shucks were still green. Not sure if that matters, but I would think that probably caused more molding problems than with corn that had already turned brown by the time we got the first hard freeze.

[dbltree]

Has anyone else noticed that some of the standing corn now has mold growing on the kernals under the shucks? A lot of areas across the midwest, including here in southwest Wisconsin, had so much rain during October without enough dry days in between to dry the corn ears out that mold started growing on the kernals. I talked to one farmer that said he's never seen anything like it in all his years of growing corn. My question is, will this reduce the attractiveness of our standing corn food plot to deer, turkeys and other wildlife? Also, could the animals that eat this moldy corn get sick or be harmed in anyway? Our corn got planted a little later than we wanted (around the first of June) and the cold summer didn't help with maturity either. Our kernals were dented by the first hard freeze (23 degrees on October 11) but the stalks, leaves and shucks were still green. Not sure if that matters, but I would think that probably caused more molding problems than with corn that had already turned brown by the time we got the first hard freeze.

We just had the wettest October since 1895 so it's not suprising that some folks haven't seen this problem before. Mold has been a problem in past years on our own farm however, in areas that flood.

Dry stalks act like a straw and sucked water up into the ears and caused kernals to mold and that scenario is happening to some extent across the country. I have not heard of serious mold problems in our area in corn but it has been a problem in some soybeans and may cause some seed shortages this next year.

Mold can be dangerous but most animals will avoid it unless force fed in confinement so I doubt you will have anything sickened from it but they may not utilize it if the mold is bad enough.

If we have continued wet cool weather I'm afraid the problem maybe exacerbated....:(

[Sligh1]

Those pics above look AMAZING!!!
-Question bout rr corn/beans together: Do you feel you get great yields on both or any problem with competition? *Let's say your corn ALONE would produce 150 bushels per acre & beans ALONE would product 45 bushels. If you're only concerned with tonnage for deer, I'd be fine with let's say 130 bushels of corn with 25 bushels of beans for instance when COMBINED if it was reduced (seems to me if either one was reduced, the beans may suffer more????). BUT- if it's now 70 bushels corn and 20 bushels of beans, maybe that's not worth it. BASICALLY- I'm going for tonnage per acre for deer, you all feel good with this combo? (When I plant ALONE I also plant seed super thick/heavy because of deer grazing- example 250,000 seeds per acre on beans, even more on edges- works AWESOME!!!).

-Has ANYONE ever had a Round-up ready corn plot near regular Standard/Atrazine corn? Has anyone noticed deer prefer the regular/standard corn more? Some have told me this BUT you all know how folks get some ideas that aren't correct. Not sure if you believe it's true or not. *If it is, I have 100's of acres of regular corn that I would hate for them to have a strong preference for (of course they'll eat RR corn, curious on preference thought.).

[dbltree]

The corn won't suffer at all but the beans are not going to yield the same as if planted seperately, so if one has unlimited acres to plant and total yield is important that I would plant seperately.

This combo works well for people like me who have ground in CRP and the acres available is limited, in which case the total dry matter yield will be higher for a combination plot then if only one was planted.

Personally I have not noticed any difference bewteen deer preference between either RR corn or soybeans.

I would also add that I actually used Dual magnumII for residual weed control and never used glyphosate because Dual is safe for both corn and beans.

This allows the use of conventional seed which is mich cheaper and often available for free from groups like Pheasants Forever....:)

[Sligh1]

Oh, how do folks that plant BOTH deal with crop rotations? Just plant the combo plot year after year in the same place (only adding fertilizer & lime as needed)? Since the reason of rotation can be solved by planting both at once- is that the idea, year after year same plot?
*The advantage I am looking at is, I ALWAYS want to have as much beans as possible - deer on my place prefer beans over corn but still eat corn. So, worst case i'd still have my beans mixed in with the corn. So a giant production field planted to WHATEVER could always contain some beans no matter what if I did this seperate plot.

[MK M GOBL]

I agree with dbltree. Yeilds will be much higher if planted seperately. I would split your plot in half, plant the corn on one side, and the beans on the other and then rotate them each year. It will be more cost effective in the long run considering that you will end up with more food and better utilization of the nitrogen fixated from the soybeans.

[dbltree]

You might also consider planting corn around the outside of the field and beans in the center or strips of corn and beans and then rotate the two each year.

The corn offers cover and feed along with the forage and grain the beans offer. As I mentioned you also have the option of over seeding beans with winter rye to add more feed if you wanted too...;)

[dbltree]

Just a reminder to contact your local Pheasants Forever and National Wild Turkey Chapters for free seed!

The Iowa NWTF and IDNR joined forces to give away hundreds of bags of RR corn and soybean seed recently and often they have sorghum and alfalfa seed available also.

One bag of RR seed corn can run $130-160 a bag so spending a few dollars a year on dues is well worth the money!

Pheasants Forever (http://www.pheasantsforever.org/)

National Wild Turkey Federation (http://www.nwtf.org/)

Check local farm seed sources for year old seed as well as they will usually discount it 50-70% and if you will be using Dual II Magnum herbicide for a soybean/milo planting, Welter Seed has very reasonablly priced conventional soybean seed at $21 a bag!

Conventional Soybean seed (http://www.welterseed.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=441)

Soybeans are a great option planted alone or in combination with corn or milo but consider what your goals are before purchasing seed. There is a great deal of interest in forage beans these days but if you goal is to attract deer in November through January they are rarely the best option.

Soybeans bred for grain production will dry down well ahead of hunting season and yield 40-60 bushels per acre of a very attractive late fall/winter food source.

Few deer can resist standing soybeans when the snow starts flying!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Driedsoys.jpg

Forage soybeans have the ability to yield tons of high quality high protien forage for summer and early fall food sources but they are at a disadvantage because they will become unpalatable to deer when the first frost hits them right smack in the middle of hunting season.

Deer will refuse to touch any soybeans while they are turning and drying down and normal grain soybeans go thru this proces well ahead of hunting season at which point they again become attractive.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Soybeans9-15-09.jpg

Forage beans are bred to keep producing forage until frost kills them and they are generally low yielding soybeans that offer little to attract deer after freezing. Be aware that deer will completely avoid forage soybeans during this stage and that will most likely be when you need them most.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/FrozenSoys1.jpg


It is possible to mix grain and forage soys or to plant different varieties within a plot or a nother option is to grow clovers and alfalfas for equally high quality summer/fall forage.

Each landowner has slightly different needs and goals so no one thing is right for everyone.

Eagle Forage soybeans (http://www.eagleseed.com/forage.html) is a source for forage beans.

Another advantage that comes with planting conventional soybeans is being able to overseed them with winter rye and Groundhog Forage Radish as the leaves turn in late August.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Winterryeinsoys.jpg

That combination of "green and grain" will attract and hold deer literally all fall, winter and spring and at a very reasonable cost to boot.

I'll be planting soybeans and milo together using the Dual II Magnum herbicide and overseeding winter rye and radish in late summer....that's a lott of high quality feed in one place....;)

[IQDM]

mmmmmm... The sight of dried beans just makes me excited for November! Does everyone have their corn and beans in down in Iowa?

[dbltree]

mmmmmm... The sight of dried beans just makes me excited for November! Does everyone have their corn and beans in down in Iowa?

I'll be planting soys and milo Monday but most farmers have their corn in although they will need to go back and re-plant some drowned out areas after 14" of rain this month! :eek:

[ajadams]

My bean plot went in today (thanks Shrek) after discing up the 4 foot tall turnips for the second time this spring. Now I could use a good rain. I have a few bags of rr beans left over if anyone wants them, i'm in DeWitt they're free for the taking. I have a couple bags of corn too but I don't know if they are rr.

[Skully]

What is the latest date I can no-till soybeans and still have a decent plot?

[letemgrow]

What is the latest date I can no-till soybeans and still have a decent plot?

You have a while, I planted some in early July last year and they were about 20 bushel per acre beans. Then again it was a really wet year which helped. Normally it is around mid June when bean planters shut down in my area.

[Sligh1]

Like letemgrow said, you have some time BUT if there's neighboring crops that can alleviate some of the pressure on your plot I would get them in as soon as possible. just my opinion.

[ajadams]

Two years ago my cousin planted some beans on the 5th of July and they went over 40 bpa. You have some time yet. Broadcast some rye into them just before they drop there leaves and you will have plenty for them to eat. Plus an early turkey plot in the spring and some green manure to boot.

[jonathanjt]

Do beans in general take a while to get growing strong? I notice the corn is shooting off like a rocket, and the beans arent doing a whole lot. Does the root structure of the beans develop first, and then it just takes off after a while? I am new to this if you couldn't tell!:way:

[dbltree]

Do beans in general take a while to get growing strong? I notice the corn is shooting off like a rocket, and the beans arent doing a whole lot. Does the root structure of the beans develop first, and then it just takes off after a while? I am new to this if you couldn't tell!:way:

Usually beans take off pretty quickly but probably wil not have the upright growth (height) of corn by any means.

These are soybeans at two weeks

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/SoybeansendofMay.jpg

This is corn and soybeans planted side by side at roughly 2 weeks...beans are planted a few inches off to the right of each corn row.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/RRcornsoysdblerows.jpg

Corn will get 8' feet high while beans perhaps waist high so there is going to be a marked difference from the get go...;)

[nannyslayer]

Paul, just thought I would show a new chemical which can be used on both corn and beans to control broadleaves. We are using a ton of it right now, since we don't have to clean sprayers out when switching from corn to beans.

It is a very cost effective way to control weeds in corn/soybean plots, and does a great job.

Cadet is the name of it, and it usually runs around 5 bucks an acre. It is a post emergence herbicide with residual. So far, it has done a great job on keeping corn and soybean fields clean in our area. It is also a granular herbicide, and the rate is .4 oz to the acre. Very easy to mix for smaller sprayers.

http://www.fmccrop.com/resources/pdf/cadet-herbicide-4-20-09-commercial.pdf

[dbltree]

Paul, just thought I would show a new chemical which can be used on both corn and beans to control broadleaves. We are using a ton of it right now, since we don't have to clean sprayers out when switching from corn to beans.

It is a very cost effective way to control weeds in corn/soybean plots, and does a great job.

Cadet is the name of it, and it usually runs around 5 bucks an acre. It is a post emergence herbicide with residual. So far, it has done a great job on keeping corn and soybean fields clean in our area. It is also a granular herbicide, and the rate is .4 oz to the acre. Very easy to mix for smaller sprayers.

http://www.fmccrop.com/resources/pdf/cadet-herbicide-4-20-09-commercial.pdf

Wow! That is exactly what I need Brian! The label does not mention milo but since it is a broadleaf herbicide I bet it will work on my soybean/milo planting!

Thanks a bunch...I'll add a link to the herbicide thread too!:way:

[Nontypcl1]

Paul, just thought I would show a new chemical which can be used on both corn and beans to control broadleaves. We are using a ton of it right now, since we don't have to clean sprayers out when switching from corn to beans.

It is a very cost effective way to control weeds in corn/soybean plots, and does a great job.

Cadet is the name of it, and it usually runs around 5 bucks an acre. It is a post emergence herbicide with residual. So far, it has done a great job on keeping corn and soybean fields clean in our area. It is also a granular herbicide, and the rate is .4 oz to the acre. Very easy to mix for smaller sprayers.

http://www.fmccrop.com/resources/pdf/cadet-herbicide-4-20-09-commercial.pdf

What size of packages is Cadet typically sold in?

[dbltree]

My friend Mike from up in WI, sent some pics of his corn and soybeans and my gosh... I have to say he has one of the prettiest farms I have ever seen!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/MikesFarm.jpg

His corn is doing great!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/MikesCorn6-9.jpg

and beans as well!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/Mikesbeans6-15.jpg

and well watered with 4" of rain...all at once! :eek:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/MikesRainGuage.jpg

If he never sees a deer he can certainly enjoy the view!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/MikesCorn6-15.jpg

Brian mentioned earlier a post emergence herbicide safe on both corn and soybeans called Cadet...$5 an acre to boot!

Cadet Herbicide (http://www.winwithcadet.com/mainMenu.html;jsessionid=4EFF714B7F41042D43CA21FE3 37F8F27)

Cadet provides and option where conventional corn and soys were planted together.... ;)

[dbltree]

I checked with my friend Brian for a little more information on Cadet herbicide, a post emergence broadleaf herbicide safe for both soybeans and corn.

Cadet is sold by the quart at $350 so perhaps a bit on the pricey side for small plotters but it is an option for non-RR corn and beans.

Cadet - Tank mixed with a glyphosate or other postemergence broadleaf herbicides– 0.4 to 0.5 oz/A
Used alone or with postemergence grass herbicides – 0.6 to 0.9 oz/A
Corn – Apply from 2-leaf up to 48-inches tall
Soybeans – Apply from 1-trifoliate through full flowering

Butyrac 200 (2,4-DB) is also safe for both corn and beans but Brian warns not to apply it within 24 hours of a rain (not possible around here this year!) and not when it is excessively hot.

Apply .07-.09 pints per acre on soybeans (see label)

The Dual II Magnum has provided pretty good residual pre-emerge weed control with the exception of some velvetleaf here and there so I'll probably spot spray 2-4DB at $75 a gallon.

Roundup Ready crops are easy, but sometimes seed can be more expensive then conventional seed with conventional herbicides or in my case planting soybeans and milo together....;)

[letemgrow]

Roundup Ready crops are easy, but sometimes seed can be more expensive then conventional seed with conventional herbicides or in my case planting soybeans and milo together....;)

It is always good to swap different herbicides/sprays to help keep weeds from building up a resistance too a particular one. Using cadet and regular corn/beans may end up being the same price, but we also get to throw a curveball at weeds that may build up a resistant to gylphosate.

[dbltree]

My friend Mike sent some pics of his corn and soybeans for the end of June...wish mine looked like his!!

Note again how Mike has various strips and blocks of crops rather then one crop type...very well done!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/MikesBeans6-29-10.jpg

The University of Illinois Extension IPM Bulletin is a great source of information that one can sunbscribe to via email.

The Bulletin (http://bulletin.ipm.illinois.edu/)

Great informational articles such as this one: Can Flooded Corn Be Salvaged? (http://bulletin.ipm.illinois.edu/article.php?id=1351)

Even if your corn is not flooded this year there is great information on N uptake and usage in that article.

Another source for great information is Iowa Farmer Today’s Crop Watch Blog (http://www.iowafarmertoday.com/blog/)

With articles such as this one about Potassium deficiency in corn (http://www.iowafarmertoday.com/blog/?p=777)

Even though "just a food plot" too many of us they seem just as important as those crops that someone depends on for a livelihood so much can be learned from Extension Agents and farm/crop reports.... :way:

[Hardwood11]

Definitely one of those amazing farms, I'd like to be like Mike!

He has a very good set up of multiple food plots, I compare it to humans going to the mall, the deer have several options and that seems to really draw in the deer from other properties.

[Deerwatcher]

Thanks Paul for posting and thanks for the compliments. The corn and beans are amazing this year. The corn has to be 8 feet tall now and is has just started tasseling. Hopefully the weather continues to stay warm and we get some rain every 4-5 days at least. I was just reading the Agri-View farm paper that I get and I saw that Cadet herbicide was going for $225.00 a quart; I don't know if that is bulk pricing or what but I thought I that was a lot better than $340-$350 that I have been seeing. That was a company in Iowa by the name of Wickman Chemical; which is located in Atlantic.www.wickmanchemical.com (http://www.wickmanchemical.com). I actually think I am going to give this herbicide a try next year to get away from using glyphosate every year.

[dbltree]

It appears that my electric fence is going to work and that will allow me to start planting corn again but by golly...I'm going to have to get with the program to grow as nice a field of corn as my friend Mike's!!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/MIkescornmidJuly.jpg

His whitetails will not only be fat and happy but safe and secure in this beautiful corn!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/MikesPacker.jpg

I love growing corn for whitetails and upland birds but the last year I planted it they had eaten every ear off from 6 acres by Oct 1st!:thrwrck:

The electric fence will cure that problem.... ;)

[dbltree]

I've been thinkin' (I know...scary thought! :eek: ) now that I have faith in my electric fence actually protecting my soybeans...I'm making plans to expand! For years I grew beautiful corn and soybeans that held deer all winter long until....they adapted to my safe, secure whitetail oasis.

Food sources protected by dense stands of NWSG, those screened by shrub and conifer plantings and safe bedding in hinge cut areas where released oaks beckon with sweet acorns...all proved to be too much of a good thing! Instead of a few deer I now have herds that wipe out my corn before season opened and never allowed beans to get over an inch high.

Electric fence has changed all of that and I look forward to returning my corn field to it's former glory and giving my friend Mike a run for his money! I can see I have my work cut out for me...... ;)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/MikesPlaceJuly2010.jpg

I know one thing...Mikes place ought to be on the cover of a magazine!:way:

[letemgrow]

I know one thing...Mikes place ought to be on the cover of a magazine!:way:

No doubt!! A farmer looking for 200+ bushel corn and 50+ bushel beans could not do it any better. :way:

[dbltree]

My friend Andy commented the other day that he watched some deer walk through a field of soybeans to get to his forage beans. Others however lament the lack of pods on their forage beans and worry about the possibility of not having a late fall food source.

Now Andy is wise and plants many food sources including ag soybeans so he has all bases covered on his farm, as should we all.

The subject of soybeans then becomes a bit confusing and the waters murky to those who don't fully understand the limitations, perhaps then we can clarify this topic to help landowners understand what might work best for them.

Soybeans....quite possibly the most irresistible food source on can plant! While green and growing almost from the moment they emerge, soybeans are hungrily lapped up by whitetails! Many a plotter has watched in dismay as deer completely destroy their bean plots within the first month after planting.

Later in the fall and winter the now dried down standing soybeans themselves become the target, leaves long gone deer return to gobble up the high protein beans as fast as they can. A 5 acre standing soybean field can easily have 40-50 deer feeding in it by late December when other food sources are long gone.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Driedsoys10-13.jpg

Soybeans then are versatile and a highly attractive food source for much of the year.

In Iowa ag soybeans often grow so tall that a grown deer can scarcely be seen and they produce a tremendous amount of forage all summer long. Depending on the maturity date the beans begin to yellow in late August to early September and eventually the leaves drop and the fuzzy pods begin to dry.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Soybeans9-15-09.jpg

During this period deer will refuse to touch the beans, often 3-6 weeks depending on the weather and beans, but when fully dry the will resume feeding on the beans themselves.

What then are significant differences between forage and ag beans?

Forage beans are very late maturing beans that put nearly all their energy into producing high protein forage but very little into actual bean production. The forage (leaves) are very palatable and highly attractive to deer.

Ag beans bred for grain production are also very attractive to deer and also produce a tremendous amount of forage but they are intent on producing high yielding beans, often as much as 60 or more bushel per acre.
Another comparison might be made with sorghum...milo is bred for grain production while most sorghums are bred for forage. Milo is shorter and produces large seed heads while forage sorghum is very tall and is normally chopped for silage or baled for hay. Both produce seeds but the forage varieties produce far less seed, so if winter feed is our goal...milo is the best option.

There are pros and cons then to each and each has a usefulness that cannot be ignored but there are very important differences that landowners should be aware of before making planting choices.

Forage beans

Pro - produce higher quality, higher protein forage for a longer period of time, very palatable and attractive to whitetails during the summer and early fall months before a killing frost.

Con- these beans usually produce far less beans and they will stay green until frosts kill them which unfortunately is right in the middle of hunting season. That means the beans will be avoided like the plague for 3-6 weeks in Oct/Nov. in most of the midwest.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/FrozenSoys1.jpg

Because they maintain their canopy until frosts it is nearly impossible to over seed other crops into the standing beans.

Cost of seed can be high depending on shipping and RR forage beans can cost upwards of $75 a bag

Ag beans

Pro - produce high yielding beans...40-60 bushel of beans will feed a lot of deer for a long time during the heart of most mid west hunting seasons.

They dry down before season allowing landowners to over seed other crops like rye, radishes or turnips into the standing beans.

While the protein content of the leaves may be slightly less then that for forage beans, ag beans will still produce copious amounts of high quality, very palatable forage.

RR soybeans run $38-45 a bag and often free or low cost seed can be had through Pheasants Forever, NWTF or Quail Unlimited. Conventional seed is often no more then $20 a bag.

Con - they may not be as attractive to deer as forage beans but only if forage beans are planted near by and ONLY when the beans are green and growing. Ag beans will be more attractive during Nov. thru Jan. typical hunting season time frames.

What then is right for you? In some cases planting some of each such as Andy does might be the answer. If you have large amounts of ag soybeans to compete with then forage beans may help draw deer to your property and adapt them to feeding there.

Don Higgins wrote in a recent article how red deer adapted to the electric fence portion of the Iron Curtain and descendants who had never seen the fence (long since torn down)still refuse to cross the imaginary line. Adapting deer to feed in an area then is important over a number of years offspring may refuse to go elsewhere.

On my own property deer have become so adapted to feeding in one field that even when forced out by a new electric fence refused to feed in a new plot of beans only yards away.

Forage beans could prove useful in some situations where hundreds or even thousands of acres of ag beans give landowners stiff competition. If however one has to fence deer out lest the forage beans be destroyed, planting them makes little sense since the forage itself is the whole point,

If your ultimate goal is having hordes of deer on your property in late November through January then common high yielding ag beans may work best for you. If fencing is required and in most cases it will be...provide adjacent plots of white clover or alfalfa for summer grazing.

There is then no right or wrong answer to the question of what soybeans to plant, landowners are fortunate to have options. What is important is knowing the limitations of any food source, when it will produce and how that will correspond with your needs.

No one food source is likely to provide year around feed for whitetails in most midwest and northern states so plan a combination of crops of which soybeans become a part of. Plan on fencing unless you have plenty of neighboring ag beans and in many cases the fence may be removed from the forage beans once they are tall enough to withstand the grazing. Leave the ag beans fenced until they start to yellow at which point the fence can safely be removed.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Milo/IMG_0019.jpg

Soybeans...nearly impossible to beat as an attractant and high quality food source, easy to plant by broadcasting, drilling or with a corn planter, Roundup Ready plants allow for easy weed control. Look over the options, the pros and cons and decide what type or types of soybeans might be best for you....;)

[dbltree]

When planting season is finished each year seed companies have two choices to deal with often huge quantities of unsold corn and soybean seed....burn it or give it to conservation groups such as NWTF, PF and QU.

One friend of mine works at a large generating plant that may burn 40-50,000 bushels of seed corn...every kernel of it top quality, high yielding, very expensive seed.

Fortunately in my state our IDNR and NWTF work together to procure hundreds of bags of seed, usually all RR seed corn and soybeans which is then given away to NWTF chapters and members across the state. Often sorghum, milo, alfalfa and wheat seed is also free to chapters willing to pick it up.

This fall a friend and I will pick up literally a truck load of seed for the whopping cost of .50 cents a bag to help pay for delivering it to pick up sites. In the spring our local PF chapter pays up to $250 to help defray the costs of seed, fertilizer and herbicide used to establish food plots.

If you love wildlife and a bargain to boot, I strongly encourage you to join the National Wild Turkey Federation, Pheasants and Quail Forever and Quail Unlimited. If they do not have a local chapter...start one and get involved to take advantage of an incredible offer of free seed that is 100% top quality, Roundup Ready and usually carry Yield-guard traits as well.

Write a check for 30 bucks for a membership or...one for hundreds of dollars for seed...the choice is yours......:way:

[nannyslayer]

We give alot of corn and beans to the NWTF chapter here. Most of it is our top selling stuff.

[j d shaw]

eagle seed company has a roundup ready soybean that climbs. it could be a great bean to plant in with corn as it climbs up in the corn getting more sun and it produces tons of green forage besides bean pods.

[dbltree]

Our ag soybeans were put in late because of the wet spring weather so of course that delayed dry down past the best date to overseed winter rye but I did broadcast some when the beans looked like this...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0031.jpg

Even though this is a 20 acres field the beans are heavily grazed

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0030.jpg

With all the heavy fall rains in our area the rye of course germinated but without sun it is barely surviving under the canopy

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0010.jpg

The rye is thing and spindly rather then a broad robust leaf

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0009.jpg

The beans however are starting to turn and that is allowing sunlight to reach the rye

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0008.jpg

Early maturing beans are prefect for overseeding rye and radishes into and the combination makes for awesome lat season hunting but it is important to get the beans in early and given a choice, choose beans that will be turning by late August.

by Oct 1st the dried beans will be palatable to deer and the rye and radishes will also be lush and attractive and provide a food plot that will literally carry deer through until spring.... :way:

[dbltree]

Some friends of mine have an outstanding field of forage soybeans but I asked them what they were going to do when these beans turned this fall since it would be right in the middle of hunting season? They exclaimed that they really hadn't thought about that but not to worry because they probably wouldn't hunt til very late in the season when the forage beans would have eventually dried down.

I then asked...so how do you plan to hold deer on your property during the 3-4 weeks when the forage beans are turning? Do you really want your deer to be running over to the neighbors place right in the middle of hunting season?

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Milo/Foragebeans.jpg

Forage beans can be a very useful addition to a habitat plan so my thoughts here are not to discourage anyone from planting them but rather make everyone aware that you cannot expect to hold deer with only ONE food source, especially forage beans.

Some people are not aware that soybeans are unpalatable to whitetails when they begin to turn and dry down and they will avoid them like the plague when they look like this....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0014-1.jpg

Modern ag beans are bred to dry down rapidly while forage beans remain alive until frosts kill them (at least in Midwest and northern areas) and then they tend to take even longer to dry down and become palatable to deer.

You can avoid this problem by either planting ag beans along side your forage beans (I like separate plantings rather then mixed because I think the smell of the turning beans tends to make deer avoid them all together and that doesn't bode well for a mix)

There are plenty of other crops that can achieve the same goal including corn, brassicas, winter rye, alfalfa and so on. Here in Iowa when temps drop and the combines start rolling deer flock to the spilled grain as they seek out the high energy the plentiful grain sources provide.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/2010%20Season/IMG_0037.jpg

That means for many of us in farm country we must fight fire with fire and make every attempt to provide a source of grain that is in a safe secure environment. If then you have the capabilities to plant soybeans and/or corn I strongly encourage you to consider planting some varieties that will dry down BEFORE October 1st so that you have a means of competing with neighboring, naturally attractive food sources from agricultural crops.

Some years ago a friend of mine who is by the way a very knowledgeable and competent hunter with many P&Y and several B&C bucks to his record...noticed that suddenly it seemed there was not a deer to be found as he hunted the harvested crop fields.

A little scouting led him to a 20 acre standing soybean field, (dried down ready to harvest ) hidden next to a large stand of timber, every deer in the area had moved to that field in mid November and within days he had killed a 170+ buck.

I can't promise you a huge buck but I can promise you this...if you don't have feed to hold your whitetails in November....someone else will kill the one that went somewhere else to feed.

Don't rely solely on one food source, plant multiple crops that will overlap and hold deer on your property year around because deer won't hang around long with nothing to eat... ;)

[Boz]

It appears that my electric fence is going to work and that will allow me to start planting corn again but by golly...


The electric fence will cure that problem.... ;)

Can you elaborate on the electric fence option? We have the same problem with corn and soy beans in our plots, deer never let them get more than a few inches tall. Do you simply add an electric fence around the plots and it keeps them out? The picture showed that you maybe had a single strand line and then a double strand line? We have some plots (2 - 4 acres) that would be turned to beans or corn if we could get them protected long enough to get some growth.

[dbltree]

Can you elaborate on the electric fence option? We have the same problem with corn and soy beans in our plots, deer never let them get more than a few inches tall. Do you simply add an electric fence around the plots and it keeps them out? The picture showed that you maybe had a single strand line and then a double strand line? We have some plots (2 - 4 acres) that would be turned to beans or corn if we could get them protected long enough to get some growth.

I have more info in the milo thread because I planted a milo/soybean combination and fenced to protect the beans.

Basically fencing out deer with electric fencing involves a 3 wire 2 fence method although I did have a couple jumpers so I am going to a 5 wire/2 fence next year.

It cost roughly $500 to get started with a solar powered fencer, posts and poly wire (poly wire or poly tape work better for visibility)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Fencer.jpg

Space the two fences roughly 3 feet apart

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Fence1.jpg

The first wire forces deer to either go under or over and then they find themselves in contact with the other two.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Fence2.jpg

Steel post are really only needed on the corners unless one chooses to use the 5 wire system and then 6 ' T posts allow you to go higher on the inside fence.

I'll be changing mine over this coming spring

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Milo/IMG_0017.jpg

Be sure to ground the fencer good with a 4-6' ground rod and it's helpful to use some aluminum foil and peanut butter to get curious deer to test the fence.

I'm sold on fencing now! :way:

[Boz]

Thanks for the great info! I used Plot Saver a couple years ago and it worked ok, but you have to keep reapplying the spray. This looks like a lot better option when its an 1 1/2 hour trip to your ground.

[dbltree]

Mike sent a couple pics from up WI way....just down right pretty!

Summer....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/2010planting107.jpg

Fall...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/2010planting220.jpg

Harvest time and deer are rolling in feed as the combines go to work!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/2010%20Season/IMG_0003.jpg

As the weather gets colder they programmed to seek out high energy food sources like corn, beans, milo and acorns as they pack on as much fat as they can. As crop fields are turned from stubble to dirt via fall tillage whitetails seek out whatever grain sources may be left and even a small field could fill up with 40-50 deer by late November or early December.

It would seem a "no brainer" then to plant corn and beans and be over run with deer each fall! Small plots of corn and beans however are usually wiped out before summers end making them a poor choice for many small plotters.

Electric fencing has changed all that because both corn and beans can be planted with out large equipment using ordinary discs or tillers and broadcasting seed...food for thought if your budget can handle $500 for a solar fencer, posts and poly wire.... ;)

[huntyak]

Good info Paul. Thanks! When you say "small fields"...would 5-7 acres be considered too small to feel comfortable leaving without fence?

Never tried to plant that large a field before but next spring had planned on planting a 7 acre field I have with switch surrounding it (1 acre total) and 6 acres of beans in the center to be left all year.

[dbltree]

Good info Paul. Thanks! When you say "small fields"...would 5-7 acres be considered too small to feel comfortable leaving without fence?

Never tried to plant that large a field before but next spring had planned on planting a 7 acre field I have with switch surrounding it (1 acre total) and 6 acres of beans in the center to be left all year.

Every farm is different of course but on mine, (also surrounded by switchgrass) they wipe out 6 acres of corn by the 4th of July at worse and by October 1st at best.

Beans don't have a prayer of getting over a few inches high on 6 acres....without fence.

Can't say you will have the same problem at first but eventually they will adapt and clean you out without fence....;)

[dbltree]

Harvest time....the fields are littered with spilled grain and....deer

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG1796.jpg

While chopping stalks I couldn't help but notice how much corn has shattered and covered the ground

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/Spilledgrain.jpg

as the sun dropped lower they started popping out into the corn stubble

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG1801.jpg

Despite the roar of the tractor and mower shredding the stalks they kept coming out, completely unfazed by the racket

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/Deerincorn.jpg

Next year this farm will be all in native warm season grasses with the exception of soybean and corn food plots strategically sandwiched between thick bedding cover and insulated by the NWSG.

That combination is nearly impossible to top... :way:

[dbltree]

These thoughts could be relevant to any food source but since these pictures are of soybeans I'll post them here.

The landowner leases the crop land out to a farmer and then has the farmer leave standing crops....expensive but effective for certain and anyone could do well to have a similar situation. Having said that there are some problems with this set up...

I took these pictures from the road if that tells you anything...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0086.jpg

In the late season there is no question that a load of deer are going to hit these standing crops but will a mature buck be as likely to come out into these fields before dark?

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0085.jpg

I have no doubt they will have some successful hunts but I wanted to share simply as a way to show others how you can make your property better and your hunting more successful. If they had screening along the road or better yet screening around the standing crops (standing corn, Egyptian Wheat, shrub plantings etc.) then mature animals would feel safer and more importantly be safe from poachers...something that is a huge problem in my area.

The problem here is that eventually deer are going to decimate these crops and then what? What will hold deer on this farm? Since my farm is literally next door what keeps deer on my place from moving to theirs?

My food sources are hidden and safe, I don't shoot deer in the plots and I have food sources year around in each plot so deer adapt to having ALL their needs met and they have no reason to investigate any neighboring farms. Doe groups feel safe and secure and their fawns adapt to that atmosphere and every day use the same runways because they NEVER run out of feed.

I have taken 5 deer already this season and not one of them was in a food plot, not a single deer blasted out among feeding deer on it's death charge so the survivors are non the wiser. Bucks of all ages and sizes feel safe and like the does adapt to being unmolested and find food sources within steps of bedding every single day of the year....NOT just during hunting season.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Trail%20Cam/DSC02783.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Trail%20Cam/DSC02806.jpg

If you want to hold deer on your property...stop planting "shooting" plots, stop leaving them vulnerable to poachers and neighbors and stop forcing them to go elsewhere for food sources because you only have a plot to "hunt" deer over rather then hold them year around and lastly use caution to shoot A buck over a late season food source and not "adapt" them to the dangers of feeding there by shooting a 1/2 dozen deer there.... ;)

[dbltree]

Excellent article in Quality Whitetails about...corn! SDSU has a captive deer herd and has studied how deer react to different corn varieties both while growing and after maturity and during the process came up to several conclusions.

While corn is green and growing, deer prefer early maturing hybrids versus late maturing, slower growing hybrids. Interesting to know because some years they would decimate my growing corn but less so in other years although at the time I paid no attention to the maturity dates.

Later maturing hybrids had higher ear heights and deer in winter preferred ears that were higher and had more of the ear exposed. Since most of us grow corn to attract deer later in the season it would seem wise to choose later maturing hybrids unless wet spring weather required a short season corn.

Occasionally we see very short season (short growing) corn being advertised but that would not be best option for most of us.

Some other notes that were observed...

Deer prefer weed free corn over weedy areas when given a choice and they also preferred heavily fertilized corn over that that received little or no fertilizer. Deer also preferred the "edge" of the corn and of course as we all know, deer are creatures of the edge and love to travel and feed along the edge of timber and field, largely because of the food sources available there of course but they are adapted to seeking out the edges.

Where possible then, planting corn in long narrow plots of strips or alternating rows with soybeans or other crops might be more attractive. I have found this doesn't work well unless you can fence it because deer will decimate the alternating rows of beans but with fencing it would work very well.

Corn provides screening and cover while soybeans can make up for the lower protein in the corn. In unfenced areas a larger block of corn would last longer into winter then narrow strips so it depends on your needs and goals as to which might work best.

On a slightly different note I would encourage everyone to plant one large centrally located plot, and then plant multiple crops within it that will feed deer year around.

Here's an example a portion of my farm showing 2 small fields that are adjacent and centrally located between bedding areas and surrounded by NWSG (where crops are shown in the picture) The colors are just showing Corn Suitability Rating and soil types... ;)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Iowa/FoodPlots95.png

In this case I will rotate corn and beans between the two small fields, both of which will be fenced and the plots ringed with white clover. The soybeans will be overseeded with winter rye and GHFR to allow me to provide year around feed. Note the location in relation to water (farm pond) and what you can see here is the fact that the entire feeding area is in a low area hidden from roads and human activity.

Corn is not for everyone but it has many merits that make it one of my favorites and now that I have the electric fencing figured out...it's back at the top of my list! :way:

[IQDM]

it's back at the top of my list! :way:[/QUOTE]
:) So will you be trying the corn and soybean alternate rows again now that overbrowse is not an issue? :way:
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/pipping22/IMG_1283-1.jpg

[dbltree]

it's back at the top of my list! :way:
:) So will you be trying the corn and soybean alternate rows again now that overbrowse is not an issue? :way:
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/pipping22/IMG_1283-1.jpg[/QUOTE]

I'll plant beans by themselves and corn and beans together and compare how they do...:way:

[dbltree]

Soybeans are a great food source for whitetails and relatively easy and inexpensive to grow but there some diseases like SDS that plotters should be aware of...

Sudden death syndrome (SDS) is a fungal disease of soybeans caused by Fusarium solani f.sp. glycines, and has caused substantial soybean yield reductions.

Disease symptoms usually appear after flowering and during pod fill. Typical foliar symptoms of SDS begin, as small chlorotic spots on leaves (Figure 4). The spots coalesce until the entire intervenal tissue of leaf is chlorotic. The chlorosis progresses to necrosis giving the leaves a fired look (Figure 5). The dead interveinal tissue falls from the leaf giving the leaf a tattered appearance (Figure 6). The leaf veins remain green and the leaves often drop off the plant leaving bare petioles still attached to the plant stems (Figure 7).

Foliar symptoms progress quickly, thus the name "sudden death". In severely infected plants, the roots are rotted near the crown, and plants can be easily pulled from the soil. The outer cambial tissue of SDS infected stems exhibit rot but the stem's pith remains whitehttp://www.soybeans.umn.edu/images2/diseases/sds2_small.jpg http://www.soybeans.umn.edu/images2/diseases/sds3_small.jpghttp://www.soybeans.umn.edu/images2/diseases/sds4_small.jpghttp://www.soybeans.umn.edu/images2/diseases/sds5_small.jpghttp://www.soybeans.umn.edu/images2/diseases/sds6_small.jpghttp://www.soybeans.umn.edu/images2/diseases/sds7_small.jpghttp://www.soybeans.umn.edu/images2/diseases/sds8_small.jpg

Tests this year in Iowa revealed less SDS in later planted soybeans (May 5th to June 1st) and since soybeans are vulnerable to late spring frosts anyway...don't be in a big rush to plant your beans next spring... ;)

[letemgrow]

How long has the electric fencer been working for you Paul? I have had a couple Gallaghers now and they are only good for 2 years or less before the circuit board needs replaced. Having much better luck with the patriot fencer and man does it put out the volts!!

[dbltree]

How long has the electric fencer been working for you Paul? I have had a couple Gallagher now and they are only good for 2 years or less before the circuit board needs replaced. Having much better luck with the patriot fencer and man does it put out the volts!!

Parmak fencer is still going strong but my Gallagher is brand new so the jury is still out on that one...;)

[letemgrow]

Parmak fencer is still going strong but my Gallagher is brand new so the jury is still out on that one...;)


The Gallagher's do have a 2 year warranty, its just been my experience after 3 of them anyways....all 3 had to get a new board. :way:

[dbltree]

When we first start out managing our property for whitetails we keep it simple, perhaps a clover plot to start with for instance. As we gain experience we (or at least we should) become more aggressive in maximizing the land and habitat that God has blessed us with.

One of the key ways we can do this is provide all the necessary ingredients required to hold whitetails on our properties year around rather then just trying to "lure" them back during hunting season. I would mention here that there are places of course where this is simply not possible, because in snow belt areas along the Great Lakes or areas with limited cover in the plains or upper Midwest states deer simply must migrate to survive. All we can do in those cases is to be certain we have food sources there from the day they return in the spring until snow forces them out in late fall.

The rest of us however can utilize a number of habitat options to keep deer on our property or at least using our property every day of the year. One of the worst mistakes any landowner can make is planting ONLY a hunting plot such as I have shared in the case of Lakosky's in the Cereal Grain thread.

There are multiple reasons for providing year around food sources:

1) To adapt whitetails to living on our property and traveling the same runways, using the same bedding areas rather then the neighbors.

2) Late season hunting...one of the greatest opportunities we have harvest a mature whitetail buck is in the late season when rut weary bucks are literally starving. Bitter cold winter weather forces them to find high energy food sources and makes them extremely vulnerable as they are more likely then ever to enter fields before dark.

3) Poaching...in my area this in an extremely serious problem because trophy class racks can bring thousands of dollars when they are sold to collectors.

This link is a case in point and only the tip of the iceberg: Iowa Poachers face $100,000 in fines (http://www.exploreseiowa.com/-12-17--Three-Area-Men-Facing-Poaching-Charges/8802273)

What good is it then to screen and protect our property and then force hungry bucks to head for unprotected neighboring farms where they are sitting ducks to not only other hunters but professional poachers who make a living out of stealing our natural resources????

That brings us to soybeans...they cannot in and of themselves solve all the above problems but they can be an extremely useful tool in helping us work towards our goals of providing year around food sources. There is NO one crops species of variety that can do the trick, at least not in most of the upper Midwest and north so it's a combination of many crops and natural habitat improvements that are required.

With that in mind then I would add here that there are serious drawbacks to ONLY planting forage soybeans but significant advantages to planting both forage and grain varieties "separately" (Do not mix them). I get FREE RR ag soybeans through a cooperative effort of the Iowa NWTF, IDNR and seed companies and my budget does not allow me to purchase forage soybeans so I utilize white clover instead with the same results. Those that can afford them can of course incorporate them into their habitat program but this discussion is centered around grain soybeans that mature and dry down starting in late August and how we can maximize this great food source as a tool in our habitat puzzle.

A friend of mine leases his ag land out to a local farmer and has the farmer leave some crops standing. Excellent way of providing food sources at least part of the time and that's where the problem arises...it's only part of the time.

With his permission I would like to share a couple cam pics from the roughly 1.5 acres he had the farmer leave. These were 40 bushel soybeans and my friend saw many mature bucks feeding in these beans in November, unfortunately lacking a funnel area he was unable to connect.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/BuckinSoybeans.jpg

He then made plans to hunt the late season knowing that these mature bucks were there and the beans would be impossible for them to turn down. This is what the spot looks like now however...barely a month later..

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/Deerinsoybeans.jpg

They have decimated the beans and there is NOTHING left to hold them there which brings us back to the problems mentioned previously. It would be foolish or naive to think that those mature bucks or the deer in general will not leave in search of other food sources which in turn makes them vulnerable to both other hunters, poachers, vehicles, dogs etc.

What good is it then to allow our immature bucks to walk and then have them killed on someone else's land because we only had a "hunting plot"?? How can we solve this problem? What things could he have done differently? (BTW...I'm not picking on my friend because I have done this exact same thing myself and learned from it the hard way... ;) )

This is ag land and not really a "food plot" so what to do?

On most any farm there are "odd areas" that cannot be farmed and in Iowa grassed waterways are only one example and timber edges, corners etc. can be utilized and make great places to plant white clover. Small patches of white clover can feed a tremendous amount of deer very inexpensively and require very little maintenance...a lite dose of Roundup in late may will keep them cleaned up and that's about it!

White clover however only insures that my friend would have early spring food sources (April/May) before crops begin to grow...again EXTREMELY important but only a piece of the puzzle.

The great thing about grain soybeans even in a farming situation such as my friends is that we can overseed them with winter rye and forage radish in late August. (This will NOT work with forage beans and just one of the serious drawbacks to using only forage beans) Over seeding rye and radishes is incredibly easy and inexpensive and easily done with a simple bag seeder, preferably just before a good late summer thunder boomer! The seeding should be done just as the beans are starting to yellow and this situation works perfectly! the beans of course are canopied (the leaves provide a cover or canopy shading the soil below) so the broadcasted seeds are protected from drying sun and wind. Soil moisture is more likely to remain adequate to insure that the seeds laying on the soil surface germinate and are able to send tiny roots down without drying out and dying.

The soybean leaves will take several weeks to turn, dry down and fall off and in takes the seeds 7-10 days depending on moisture to germinate so by the time the rye and radish is needing some sunshine....the leaves fall and they are off to the races!

By October then the rye and soybeans will look something like this...man...what a combination!!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/Ryeinsoybeans.jpg

In most cases where deer densities are high I would suggest following up with at least a 100#'s of urea per acre several weeks after the rye and radishes have sprouted. Spread the urea just before a minimum 1/2 " of rain to incorporate the nitrogen.

Eventually we end up with this fantastic combination of "grain and green" that will last far longer then the grain alone and be far more attractive then the green forage alone.

This is an idea what you can expect from the combination of beans and rye....and had my friend utilized this combination the deer, having adapted to feeding there would have continued to stay and feed on the rye.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/Ryeinsoybeanswithbuck.jpg

Winter rye is the ultimate for overseeding into standing crops because it germinates and grows easily on almost any soil without being "planted" and rye provides the missing link required to hold our whitetails ALL winter into spring when once again the white clover can take over from there.

In ag situations the rye can be easily killed with roundup in the spring or tilled under depending on the farmer involved so it's not a problem for the crops to follow but does have the added benefit of helping to hold the soil as a cover crop through the winter and early spring.

I would also remind each of you that planted food sources are not the entire answer and only part of the habitat pie so it's essential that we provide copious amounts of natural browse and cover along with the crops. Whitetails MUST have browse and I cannot stress the importance of providing an ample supply of natural forage enough...do NOT over look it!

My friend is in the planning stages of major TSI projects that will turn his wide open timber into safe secure sanctuaries full of succulent browse and funnels that will allow him to kill those big whitetails traveling to his food sources.

Look over this thread for more ideas on this subject:

Hinging for bedding, bottlenecks and browse (http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15487)

Another overlooked habitat improvement is planting shrubby browse species such as dogwoods and Big Rock Trees offers cuttings that are amazingly easy to plant.

Big Rock Trees (http://www.bigrocktrees.com/)

Shrubs provide both cover and browse and can be used to help funnel deer too boot!

Change the way you think, get away from "hunting season" plantings if you really want to have the edge and maximize the use of your property. Provide year around food and cover and waste not a single square inch of your land in doing so! Some of you may find forage soybeans a useful tool and if you include them, plant them separately perhaps around the outer edges of the grain soybean planting. They will remain green and canopied until frost kills them which has obvious benefits from a grazing standpoint but makes it impossible to over seed rye into them. Look over all the options and combination, and then decide what might work best for you to achieve our goals of holding whitetails on our property year around.... :way:

[Daver]

To add a bit to Dbltree's thread...I just returned from a late 2nd season hunt at my farm and here is what I saw.

I have about 5 acres of RR, free ag beans that got planted pretty late this year due to incessant rain in SE Iowa. I think the farmer finally got them right around July 13th. (Plus or minus a day or two, I had given up hope by July 4th that he would be able to get them in. I got one free bag from an NWTF chapter and the others from another friend that farms that had some leftovers from previous years.)

Due to the late planting date and the fact that I did not apply fertilizer to them, they only got a little over knee high, but they did make pods. I also followed Dbltree's advice and overseeded rye into them and that came along OK, we had a pretty dry spell in September that didn't help them any. By late November and continuing up until now, this is the field on my place, and I suspect the #1 place in my immediate neighborhood.

While tracking my son's deer today, I had occasion to inspect 4 other food plots on my place. (3 predominantly clover and 1 predominantly rye.) There was a little action in the other plots, but there were trails coming from all directions to the beans/rye combo. I would estimate that 90% of the feeding right now is in the bean/rye plot.

Although I am a long ways from developing my place as well as Dbltree has developed his places, I am headed in that direction and while trailing this deer, we came across numerous beds, all on our property, that give credence to the plans that Dbltree promotes. I did TSI on about 30 acres of timber 2 or 3 years ago and this deer bedded 5 times and always in a thick spot in an area where the TSI had been performed. I don't think any of this was coincidence either.

I just thought it would add to the thread that others, generally following his good advice, can see similar results too. Oh, check the the harvest forum for my son's deer. :D

[dbltree]

They do love those beans Dave! :way:

My friend John from way up north has noticed the same thing I have....deer love FREE soybean seed!

He planted 2 acres of soybeans with some corn for a screen and the seed cost him a mere $8 a bag from his local NWTF chapter (join up fellas!) and by golly his deer are like mine....loving the "cheap beans"...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Soy2.jpg

The cleaned him out!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Soy1.jpg

John said the only thing he needs to do next time is...plant more of that free soybean seed!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Soy3.jpg

Just think if he had overseeded winter rye into those beans....;)

[dbltree]

I believe that soybeans overseeded with winter rye is an almost unbeatable combination but corn and rye might possibly even top that! We don't often see corn overseeded with rye simply because it's difficult to hand spread rye into standing corn but farmers commonly do so as a cover crop or to graze cattle on. They aerial seed their rye which makes short work of applying the rye seed but that's not something most of us are familiar with.

When I mentioned to Rich Baugh that deer were pounding my winter rye he told me he had rye aerial seeded into standing corn...cool! I asked for details and pics to which he obliged and sent the following to me.

The farmer who leases his crop land, knowing that Rich planted food plots suggested that he could have some rye seed flown on when he had his own done. Rich said let's give it a shot and had 6 acres of standing corn seeded to winter rye via airplane!

This is what it looks like now after the corn has been harvested...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Rye%20in%20corn%20and%20soybeans/Ryeincorn1.jpg

Rich hasn't had a chance to hunt this yet but mentioned that he can see that they have been grazing the rye

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Rye%20in%20corn%20and%20soybeans/Ryeincorn2.jpg

Atrazine herbicide can be a problem when attempting to overseed anything into corn but this was RR corn so herbicide carryover was not a problem!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Rye%20in%20corn%20and%20soybeans/Ryeincorn3.jpg

Regardless if it is corn grown for harvest or left standing as a food plot...aerial seeding of winter rye in late August or early September is an awesome method of extending the grazing period all the way til spring. Eventually deer will strip the corn or soybeans clean but the rye will remain and hold deer all winter!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Rye%20in%20corn%20and%20soybeans/Ryeincorn4.jpg

It's certainly not impossible to walk the rows with a bag seeder and get the job done but Rich was able to have this seed flown on for $25 an acre! Gieesh...you can't beat that deal!

Regardless of how you get the job done....consider overseeding winter rye and forage radish into your standing corn and soybeans to not only extend your grazing season and plot usage but double your total yield per acre to boot. Rye is an awesome tool that can help you hold whitetails year around when used in conjunction with other crops...give it a try if you haven't already... :way:

[IQDM]

Does this pilot fly up to Wisconisn!? I would certianly have rye and GHFR dive-bombed into my corn/soybeans!!!!!! does it take a special airplane to do this???? AWESOME STUFF! :D:way:

[dbltree]

Does this pilot fly up to Wisconisn!? I would certianly have rye and GHFR dive-bombed into my corn/soybeans!!!!!! does it take a special airplane to do this???? AWESOME STUFF! :D:way:

Check with your local ag fertilizer supplier/grain elevator, Rich has his done through Crop Services (ag supply). Planes commonly fly on fungicides etc. so and local farm service should have contacts to those that do crop dusting, spraying and aerial seeding. :way:

[Jetboatgreg]

A note from NE pa...great thread. We tried corn again this year. Not having a corn planter available we tried broadcasting corn. I first put urea and fertlizer down then We used a cultivator to work the soil up. I then broadcast RU read corn with my hand seeder. Then disced and cultipacked the corn in...(approx 1.5 acres)

This was the results..
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh262/jetboatgreg/071510003.jpg

Corn cam up great and had outstanding production...except where i overseeded along one of the hedgerows and moisture was pulled out by the trees.

Our only problem are these...
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh262/jetboatgreg/090110101.jpg
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh262/jetboatgreg/090110108.jpg
which pounded our corn field all fall. Even with the heavy bear damage we had a great crop of corn which the deer have been utilizing to this date. Not enough to carry them all winter..but enough to give the good start through the rest of the winter.

On a side note...we put out 9 different bear in and around our property the 2nd week of pa rifle season!

[dbltree]

Nice work on the corn and the bears! Thanks much for sharing the pics! :way:

[Jetboatgreg]

Paul...? for you...Would you recommend leaving the corn standing after it matures or mowing with a brush hog to scatter the corn?

Was wondering if leaving the standing corn would be a pain in the butt to plow under come spring? and would it be better to scatter the corn rather than leave it on the ears especially for the turkeys?

You dont have bears in iowa do you? They are a pain!!!! especially on the damage to the game cameras!

Here are a couple more for your enjoyment! :)
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh262/jetboatgreg/061310047.jpg
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh262/jetboatgreg/MDGC0357.jpg
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh262/jetboatgreg/MDGC0356.jpg
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh262/jetboatgreg/IM000037.jpg

[dbltree]

.Would you recommend leaving the corn standing after it matures or mowing with a brush hog to scatter the corn?I leave it standing and then shred the stalks in the spring...deer love the cover of the standing corn.

Somethings about whitetails mystify me which of course is half the fun of hunting them! My neighbors have a wide open crop field beyond my place, been that was for decades...not a tree or so much as a branch on the place! The owner keeping it his fence rows clean as a whistle while my farm is 100% habitat...awesome thick cover, hidden food sources etc etc. So one would wonder then why on earth deer would choose to go out and scratch around in soybean stubble rather then feed on my protected standing soybeans???

To make matters worse...they let some other fellas hunt (nothing wrong with that) and they stick a double bull blind out there on a terrace and have a blast shooting does apparently on a suicide mission! I can watch them walk to their blind, see the deer come out, hear them shoot...the whole 9 yards! You can see the tent blind to the far right and the wide open field beyond mine.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0012.jpg

Now...this fellas do lament the fact that they don't see any bucks while I am watching 10-15 bucks and 20-30 does in my hidden food sources and beans, I am waiting for a mature buck I am not shooting "deer". This is merely a "curious" thing that makes you wonder...why?

I suspect that a certain number of deer are adapted to coming from another neighbors farm (they are not coming from my place but another neighbor with no feed) to the stubble fields that are their means of survival. Doe groups lead and adapt other does groups, it's unchanging over decades of use and that friends is my case in point for providing year around food sources that adapt deer to feeding year after year in your plots and living on your land.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0013-1.jpg

They shot a doe, walked out, got the truck and drove in just as I was getting ready to walk out under cover of darkness. The deer in my plots listened and watched intently even though 300 yards away but never left. When I drove past the gates they had not left more then 5 minutes previously...there were more deer trying to get back in the field and some still in the field...crazy!

A friend of mine with a fairly large farm said he has witnessed the exact same thing, 3 deer in his standing soybeans while 30 more where feeding a chisel plowed soybean stubble field! Again...they are just adapted to feeding there as they have for years.

Ag crop stubble should not be overlooked by those who lease crop land out on their farm although large fields can be frustrating to hunt unless edge feathering/trail blocking has been done. Mature bucks are far less likely to enter open fields before dark as these fellas can attest to so hidden safe food sources are far more productive.

While they were watching does...I was watching does...and bucks....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Deer%20in%20Rye/IMG_0003.jpg

and the bucks on my farms are adapted to feeding there long before dark although truly mature animals are still reluctant to risk daylight movement.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Deer%20in%20Rye/IMG_0009.jpg

All of that is just food for thought because often some one will say...there are tons of deer in my neighbors field...what I am I doing wrong?!? We can't pen them all up and a certain number of deer are adapted o feeding in those crop fields regardless of what we plant. Over time however if your food sources are centrally located, insulated from the "world", close to thick cover...the bucks are going to prefer your property. They didn't survive to be 4-5 years old by running out to a large crop field in broad daylight.... ;)

[Daver]

Paul - that is really interesting that some of the neighborhood deer would eschew your property for the wide open field next door. I would guess that there is a "social angle", in that no matter how good the habitat may be in one spot, only so many alpha does will choose to stay together. So the ones "out in the open" may be lower on the neighborhood deer hierarchy than the ones in the prime zone on your place.

Or, they could just be stupid too. :D

[risto2351]

At our farm we have terraces at a plateau.

The deer will always run from the woods to the highest part
in that field. In the wide open. About an hour before dark.

I always thought they did it so they could look out for danger?

[dbltree]

Or, they could just be stupid too

That was my first guess Dave! :D

The social part is definitely a factor however so you can only crows do many deer on to any property or into any field. With as many as 50+ deer visible in less then 3 acres of rye and clover...it stands to reason some are going to choose another place...and that would be the...stupid ones...:D

[dbltree]

My friend Mike sent a couple pics from up in snow country...deer flocking to his winter food sources!!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Mikedeer12-17.jpg

I love Mikes multiple food sources! Soybeans, sugar beets, turnips an radishes all in strips as you can see in this pic.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/MikesPlots12-28.jpg

They were choosing those crops over his standing corn but that may have changed by now.... ;)

[dbltree]

Mike sent me a picture of his uneaten corn from his WI farm...something unheard of around my area! It is an example of providing year around food sources however.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/2010planting254.jpg

Mikes limiting factor is cover because much of his farm is ag land so if he had tremendous bedding areas, it's unlikely he would have crops left over. He has found some nice sheds this winter as deer travel to his great combination of brassicas, beets, beans and corn!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/2010seasonsheds008.jpg

A friend of mine with the ideal combination of food sources and awesome bedding areas comprised of hinged trees and crop tree release in the timber along with fields of NWSG found over 50 sheds this weekend on his 300+acre farm.

Provide BOTH cover and food year around and they'll live there year around! :way:

[dbltree]

I picked up nearly $2000 worth of free RR corn and soybean seed the other day....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2378.jpg

all left over seed that either has to be burned or given away

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2379.jpg

One can look up the variety numbers on line if you wish

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2380.jpg

but it's all top of the line seed...free!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2381.jpg

I also picked up a bag of Real World soybean seed from Don Higgins at the Iowa Deer Classic...obviously not because I need anymore seed but simply to give it a fair test against other ag soybeans

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2382.jpg

Always best to do a ragdoll test on any year old seed to be certain it is viable seed

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2385.jpg

I've never had a problem but I also would rather know sooner then later if I do.

I prefer to use high quality white clover for my spring/summer food source and utilize the soybeans as a late season source of grain so that being the case I plant high yielding ag beans rather then forage type beans. There is something for everyone though and regardless if you choose one or both...now is the time to take a soil test and be certain of your nutrient and PH levels.

Take a number of samples and mix them in a bucket (hope my wife doesn't see her bucket that clearly says "MOM'S BUCKET" :eek: )

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Test1.jpg

or a bag and then scoop out enough to nearly fill the sample bag.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2344.jpg

Lot's of great places to send in soil samples (local co-op or extension office) but here is a link to ISU's soil lab if you need a soil lab to send too

ISU Soil Lab (http://www.agron.iastate.edu/soiltesting/)

Tests cost 8 bucks there and you'll know if you need to add P&K or lime

I also got free RR seed corn...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2384.jpg

YieldGuard and RR 2 seed corn is probably $150-160 a bag! This is 118 day corn...perfect for my neck of the woods.

818TS seed corn (http://www.stanislausfarmsupply.com/UserFiles/File/corn/818TS.pdf)

Not all areas organize seed pickups but it pays to check with large ag co-ops or seed dealers who may be asked to store it temporarily...no one wants to pay for hauling it somewhere if they can give it away... ;)

[Scott]

I picked up nearly $2000 worth of free RR corn and soybean seed the other day....

You must be a smooth talker Paul, I called a couple of places and they acted like I was crazy asking for any leftover "free" seed. :grin:

[Sligh1]

I'd hook someone up with FREE SEED if they'd pick mine up next fall and bring to my house.

[Scott]

I'd hook someone up with FREE SEED if they'd pick mine up next fall and bring to my house.

Where ya live? :D

[Sligh1]

I live in Urbandale

[dbltree]

You must be a smooth talker Paul, I called a couple of places and they acted like I was crazy asking for any leftover "free" seed. :grin:

I have friends in high places...;):D

or

maybe Urbandale? :p

[Scott]

I have friends in high places...;):D

or

maybe Urbandale? :p

Yeah all the big shots live in Urbandale :grin:

[Liv4Rut]

No kidding. When I lived around there I always thought it was pronounced "Urban Dale" all the locals around there pronounced it "URBAN DA LE" Pretty high class. :)

[dbltree]

April 15th, 2011

Raining today...thankful for the break actually and even more thankful I got my corn in and sprayed to boot!

I planted free RR seed corn we picked up from a cooperative effort through the Iowa NWTF, Iowa DNR and major seed companies with boat loads of leftover seed on their hands!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2384.jpg

I put on 300#'s of 6-28-28

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2511.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2512.jpg

and 300#'s of 46-0-0 urea

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2519.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2520.jpg

at a cost of $200 an acre total and broadcast it on before discing

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2518.jpg

I would no-till plant but the urea must be tilled in within 24-48 hours (or be rained in with 1/2" minimum) or risk losing most or all of it, so i disk immediately after broadcasting.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2521.jpg

I am dividing the plot into 1/2 corn and 1/2 soybeans with white clover around the exterior and a strip of turnips down the center (planted in July)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2522.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2523.jpg

The areas in winter rye tilled up especially nice

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2530.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2529.jpg

I planted 30,000 seeds per acre with the JD7000

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2524.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2528.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2526.jpg

and then sprayed with 1.75 pints per acre of Dual II Magnum pre-emergence herbicide

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_0011.jpg

and $30 pull type sprayer

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2531.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2536.jpg

with drops to limit wind drift

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2537.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2538.jpg

It puts on 10 gallons per acre and works pretty well...with a duct tape lid.... :D

The last of April I'll get the soybeans planted and get the electric fence up and running again as well... :way:

[dbltree]

How far apart should seeds be in a row and how many seeds per acre ?

This link can answer some of those questions....

ISU Corn Planting Guide (http://www.extension.iastate.edu/publications/pm1885.pdf)

What about row width for soybeans?

Soybean Seed Rates: Should They Change With Row Spacing? (http://agronomyday.cropsci.illinois.edu/2000/soybean-seed-rates/index.html)

Soybean Plant spacing (http://ohioline.osu.edu/agf-fact/0140.html)

All about soybeans (http://www.nsrl.uiuc.edu/aboutsoy/production02.html)

Soybean plant populations (http://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/AY/AY-217-W.pdf)

One way to tell how many seeds per acre is to run your drill or planter down a driveway and then check the seed spacing/seeds per foot and then figure out seeds per acre.... ;)

[waylonb19]

Roughly how many soybean seeds per acre if you are broadcasting them?

[Sligh1]

Geez, let's say a normal farmer drills 150,000 for EXAMPLE. And combine that with the fact that you're probably doing less than 5 acres that will be targeted by deer right???? And finally, broadcasting....
If it were ME, to be honest, I'd be putting down 250k+ per acre if you're broadcasting them (heck, I know some will say this is too high BUT in your example, I might even do 300k BUT I bet several will say that's too many, I don't think so though). I'd be shooting for as much acreage as possible & I'd be hitting it really hard with P&K (and Pell-lime if needed) and I'd be disciplined about Round-up on time and as needed- on smaller area, I spend an hour and hand spray em so I don't run any over- takes some time BUT worth it- also consider adding DUAL to the mix in your spray. If you can pack em in, really will help- anything you can do to aid in getting them into the soil or get them covered at all. Have fun!

[dbltree]

Roughly how many soybean seeds per acre if you are broadcasting them?

It depends on how many acres and what kind of grazing you expect. A small hidden plot is going to get wiped out so as Skip mentions you could plant above 200,000 seeds per acre with no problems.

If it's a larger area or fenced to protect it then 140,000 to 180,000 seeds per acre would give higher grain yields.

[Sligh1]

I would HIGHLY suggest looking into the fencing that Dbltree is using & talking about in his earlier posts too.

[dbltree]

April 30th, 2011

Soil conditions where barely dry enough but I went ahead and no-tilled my soybeans in last night...plenty of time to pant soybeans but I couldn't wait to try out my new tractor! 8-)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2668.jpg

The JD5065E worked great and pulled the JD7000 no-till planter with ease

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2673.jpg

I planted in both milo stalks and winter rye/clover, 1/2 the plot already planted to corn

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2674.jpg

The 7000 will plant through just about any soil residue

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2669.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2671.jpg

I used free RR soybean seed from experimental test beans and germination was on the low side so i planted at heavy rates exceeding 240,000 seeds per acre hoping to end up with 140 -160,000 germinated seeds per acre. I also planted some of Don Higgins "Real World" soybeans as a test and save 1/2 of the bag to test on another farm.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2672.jpg

I was hoping to plant more today but a 1/4" of rain on already wet soils put the kibash to that idea. No worries though as we have lot's of time for beans and I don't think a single acre of beans has been planted in my area. I didn't add fertilizer to the beans and will use a corn bean rotation where I build fertility on the corn and follow with beans.

My corn may have to be re-planted along with hundreds of acres of corn planted by neighboring farmers. The cold wet soils have prevented or delayed germination and if things don't change soon I suspect the seed will rot in the ground.

I have plenty of free RR corn and soybean seed left so if at first I don't succeed...try, try again... ;)

[letemgrow]

April 30th, 2011

Soil conditions where barely dry enough but I went ahead and no-tilled my soybeans in last night...plenty of time to pant soybeans but I couldn't wait to try out my new tractor! 8-)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2668.jpg

The JD5065E worked great and pulled the JD7000 no-till planter with ease


That is a sharp looking setup!! :way:

[letemgrow]

I have a 33 horse and hope that it will pull the 4 row JD 7000 I have...anyone know for sure from experience if it will pull that planter?

[waylonb19]

I got my soybean seed yest. from Pheasants forever. I have a question. My seed is Croplan Cruiser Maxx Beans. It doesn't say anything about being round-up ready beans on the bag or on the label so I am guessing they aren't. What herbicide options do I have? Wish they would of been round-up beans so I wouldn't have to spend the money on different herbicides but they were free. :D

[spltbrow]

I have a 33 horse and hope that it will pull the 4 row JD 7000 I have...anyone know for sure from experience if it will pull that planter?

I was told in another post that a 30hp can pull the jd 7000 4 row. I do not know for a fact, thats what i was told because i was wandering the same thing.

[IQDM]

I couldn't wait to try out my new tractor! 8-)
Awesome! I was wondering what you were going to replace the old one with! :way:

[waylonb19]

Geez, let's say a normal farmer drills 150,000 for EXAMPLE. And combine that with the fact that you're probably doing less than 5 acres that will be targeted by deer right???? And finally, broadcasting....
If it were ME, to be honest, I'd be putting down 250k+ per acre if you're broadcasting them (heck, I know some will say this is too high BUT in your example, I might even do 300k BUT I bet several will say that's too many, I don't think so though). I'd be shooting for as much acreage as possible & I'd be hitting it really hard with P&K (and Pell-lime if needed) and I'd be disciplined about Round-up on time and as needed- on smaller area, I spend an hour and hand spray em so I don't run any over- takes some time BUT worth it- also consider adding DUAL to the mix in your spray. If you can pack em in, really will help- anything you can do to aid in getting them into the soil or get them covered at all. Have fun!


Thanks. I am planting a little over 2 acres. I am not sure if the deer will destroy them early or not but I am not going to fence it this yr. at least. Got my soil sample back on this and will be applying P&K as needed. PH was good so not going to be adding lime. I have 6 bags of soybeans. Says there is roughly 2650 seeds per lb. I think they are 50lb bags(doesn't say and haven't weighed them yet) so that is 132,500 seeds per bag. So I have around almost 800,000 seeds to plant. Looks like I will have enough seed. :D

[turkeyriver]

I'd be surprised if your beans weren't RR. Look on the end of the bag where it's sewn together. There should be some numbers printed directly on the bag giving variety, lot number, etc. Are the letters RR there somewhere. They may even be combination RR, LibertyLink resisent. Copy the variety numbers down and check the Croplan website. They may be listed there. If they were an experimental number you may not be able to find out. CruiserMax is the seed coating put on them.

[nannyslayer]

I'd be surprised if your beans weren't RR. Look on the end of the bag where it's sewn together. There should be some numbers printed directly on the bag giving variety, lot number, etc. Are the letters RR there somewhere. They may even be combination RR, LibertyLink resisent. Copy the variety numbers down and check the Croplan website. They may be listed there. If they were an experimental number you may not be able to find out. CruiserMax is the seed coating put on them.

croplan gives pheasants forever and NWTF all of their extra seed at the end of the year, and 85% of the seed is experimental numbers, that don't have the traditional tag. But you are correct, I would bet they are round up ready, but croplan does have about 4 LL numbers as well.

If you could put the number of the bean up here (ex. 3130 on the tag, it will be a 4 digit number unless its an experimental, then it will say EXP000000 and so on) I could probably tell you what bean it is and if you are ok in the round up department.

[waylonb19]

Here is what I pulled off the bag where it was sewn together;
Soybean brand: RT0995
Lot Number: LV92-192
Aprox. Seed per lb: 2650
Soybean Variety: SPP

[dbltree]

Here is what I pulled off the bag where it was sewn together;
Soybean brand: RT0995
Lot Number: LV92-192
Aprox. Seed per lb: 2650
Soybean Variety: SPP

Nanny can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe RT means it has the Roundup Ready Trait...;)

Note below that mine has RT or R2

We got another 1/4" of rain Friday night April 29th which left our clay soils to wet to work with in the a.m.. If it doesn't crumble it's not ready....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2698.jpg

A drying wind all day left it barely ready so I went ahead and no-till planted another acre including some test comparison beans from Don Higgins Real World Soybeans.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2729.jpg

I planted those beans first then mixed the free leftover RR soybean seed from Croplan's test/experimental plots

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2730.jpg

Note the "SSP is Seeds per pound and there is a difference between these two varieties

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2732.jpg

I mixed those two seeds together and planted them along side the RW beans

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2733.jpg

The Croplan seed was treated with CruiserMaxx seed treatment...more at this link:

CruiserMaxx™ (http://www.croplangenetics.com/FINDSEED/SOYBEANS/ECMD014217.aspx)

Most companies treat their seed with various treatments so if your curious you can look it up based on the tags on the bag.

I planted these in a grass/alfalfa field that I had already sprayed with glyphosate at 2 quarts per acre. The weather is still "coolish" but if they germinate all right I'll get busy and get my electric fences up. :way:

[waylonb19]

Dbltree did you use Dual Mag 2 as a pre-emergent or just planning on using roundup Post emergent?

[dbltree]

Dbltree did you use Dual Mag 2 as a pre-emergent or just planning on using roundup Post emergent?

I used Dual on the corn but not on the beans...I planted twice with the wide row planter to get roughly 16-18" rows so glyphosate alone should do the trick. Dual certainly will work well for beans as well though...;)

[nannyslayer]

RT0995 are 0.9 Maturity Round up ready beans, so yes Paul RT means Round up, and R2C means round up ready 2 Yield.

[dbltree]

RT0995 are 0.9 Maturity Round up ready beans, so yes Paul RT means Round up, and R2C means round up ready 2 Yield.

Thanks much Brian! :way:

[dbltree]

Corn and brassicas are both high nitrogen users and without copious amounts of nitrogen they will usually perform poorly unless planted on extremely fertile soils or follow high N fixing legumes such as alfalfa, clover and vetch.

The least expensive yet most effective source of nitrogen is Anhydrous Ammonia (82%) but that must be knifed in an not feasible for most food plotters. Liquid livestock manure or chicken litter can also work well for those who find it readily available but again it's often not possible for someone with 2 acres in a difficult to get to place, to get it applied.

Let's look over the options because every landowner has different situations across the country...

From the following link: Selecting Forms of Nitrogen Fertilizer (http://ohioline.osu.edu/agf-fact/0205.html)

The common N fertilizers are anhydrous ammonia (82% N), urea (45- 46% N), solutions (28-32% N), ammonium sulfate (21% N) and ammonium nitrate (34% N).

Urea (45-46%) converts to nitrate N fairly fast, usually in less than two weeks in the spring. Denitrification on wet or compacted soils can be serious. Leaching can be a problem in coarse soils. In no-till situations surface volatilization can be a problem if the urea is not placed in contact with the soil and it is dry for several days after spreading.

Twenty-eight to 32 percent (28-32%) N solution is usually made up of urea and ammonium nitrate. The nitrate in this product is subject to leaching and denitrification from the time it is placed in the field. The urea components are subject to the same loss mechanisms as urea.

N solutions can be banded on the soil surface easily by dribbling. This method of application minimizes the amount that sticks to the residue; therefore, surface volatilization is minimal.

Ammonium sulfate (21%) is a nitrogen source with little or no surface volatilization loss when applied to most soils. Ammonium sulfate is a good source of sulfur when it is needed. Its disadvantage is that it is the most acidifying form of N fertilizer - it requires approximately 2 to 3 times as much lime to neutralize the same amount of acidity as formed by other common N carriers.

Ammonium nitrate (34%) is 50% ammonium N and 50% nitrate N when added to the soil. The ammonium N quickly converts to nitrate N. For soil subject to leaching or denitrification, ammonium nitrate would not be preferred. Ammonium nitrate has no urea in it; therefore, surface application would be a good choice where volatilization of urea is expected.
If only it were as easy as broadcasting some nitrogen and that was that, but unlike phosphorous and potassium, there are problems with nitrogen...

Nitrogen (N) can be lost from the soil through three principal pathways, (1) DENITRIFICATION, (2) LEACHING, and (3) SURFACE VOLATILIZATION.

The form of N a farmer chooses should depend on how serious a problem he has with the above N losses. Cost of N is another consideration when choosing a fertilizer source.

DENITRIFICATION occurs when nitrate-N (N03-) is present in a soil and there is not enough oxygen (02) present to supply the needs of the bacteria and microorganisms in the soil.

If 02 levels are low, bacteria and microorganisms strip the oxygen from the nitrate and the end result is the production of N gas (N2) or nitrous oxide (N20), which volatilizes from the soil.

Three conditions that create an environment that promotes denitrification are wet soils, compaction and warm temperatures for high activity of soil microorganisms.

LEACHING losses of N occur when soils have more incoming water (rain) than the soil can hold. As water moves through the soil, nitrates (N03-) in the soil solution are picked up and moved with the water. Ammonia (NH4+) forms of N have a positive charge and are held by the negative sites on the clay in the soil; therefore, NH4+ forms of N leach very little. In sands where there is very little clay, ammonium forms of N can leach. Relatively coarse soils (sands and some mucks) are the only ones in which significant leaching of N is important.

One way to minimize N leaching and denitrification is to minimize the time the N is in the soil before plant uptake. This cuts down on the time when conditions are favorable for losses. Most of the N is needed by corn after the plant is three to four weeks old (June 1).

SURFACE VOLATILIZATION of N occurs when urea forms of N break down and form ammonia gases and where there is little soil water to absorb them. This condition occurs when urea forms of N are placed in the field but not in direct contact with the soil. This situation can occur when urea is spread on corn residues or 28% is sprayed on heavy residues of cornstalk or cover crop.

The rate of surface volatilization depends on moisture level, temperature and surface pH of the soil. If the soil surface is moist, the water evaporates into the air. Ammonia released from the urea is picked up in the water vapor and lost. On dry soil surfaces, less urea-N is lost. Temperatures greater than 50oF and pH's greater than 6.5 significantly increase the rate of urea conversion to ammonia gases. Applying urea-type fertilizers when weather is cooler slows down N loss. If the surface of the soil has been limed within the past three months with two tons or more of limestone per acre, DO NOT apply urea-based fertilizers unless they can be incorporated into the soil.

To stop ammonia volatilization from urea, the urea must be tied up by the soil. To get the urea in direct contact with the soil it must rain enough to wash the urea from the residue or the farmer must place urea-based fertilizer in direct contact with soil by tillage, banding or dribbling.

If the residue is light, 0.25 to 0.5 inch of rain is enough to dissolve the urea and wash it into the soil. If the residue is heavy, 0.5 inch or greater of rainfall is required.

The common N fertilizers are anhydrous ammonia (82% N), urea (45- 46% N), solutions (28-32% N), ammonium sulfate (21% N) and ammonium nitrate (34% N).

Anhydrous ammonia (82%) converts to nitrate N the slowest of any form of N fertilizer. Therefore, it would have the least chance of N loss due to leaching or denitrification. It must be injected into the soil; therefore, it would have no loss due to surface volatilization. The disadvantage of anhydrous ammonia is that it is hazardous to handle. It must be injected into the soil, and on steep slopes erosion can be a problem. For most of us, urea is the least expensive yet most readily available form of synthetic nitrogen other then anhydrous. AMS and AMN may also be available in some areas but it is expensive and each comes with it's own problems.

In my case, I broadcast urea and disc it in immediately and that works well except of course when we have prolonged heavy rains that can leach nitrogen from the soil quicker then might normally be expected.

This is another good link on nitrogen sources Types and Uses of Nitrogen Fertilizers for Crop Production (http://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/AY/AY-204.html)

From that link...more info about urea

Urea (COCNH) Form

This form of fertilizer nitrogen usually undergoes a three-step change before it is taken up by crops. First, enzymes in the soil or plant residue convert the urea N to ammonia N. Next, the ammonia reacts with soil water to form ammonium N. And finally, through the action of soil microorganisms, the ammonium is converted to nitrate N.

Like nitrates, urea dissolves in and moves with soil water and thus can be lost through leaching if not converted to ammonia and then ammonium. The conversion to ammonia takes only 2 to 4 days when soil moisture and temperature are favorable for plant growth. Lower temperatures slow the process, but it will continue even down to freezing. Consequently, leaching losses are seldom experienced under field conditions.

When ammonia is formed from urea applied on the soil surface, some will be volatilized (escape into the air), the amount depending on a combination of soil conditions. Greatest loss can be expected when soil pH is above 7. soil temperature S high and soil moisture low. Ammonia formed from urea applied under the soil surface, on the other hand, is rapidly converted to ammonium. which will neither move with water nor be lost to the airBroadcasting urea just before a minimum 1/2" rain will be fairly effective but obviously doing so is not always a sure bet! I have broadcasted urea while lightening filled the skies, 100% chance of heavy rain in the forecast and the skies filled with ominous rain filled clouds only to have but a sprinkle on my very expensive urea....

So I till or disc in the urea...period, no if's and's or but's about it!

What about applying fertilizer in the row via the corn planter?

Starter or "pop up" fertilizers can be applied in the row (offset slightly from the seed) but only a fraction of the crops needs can be applied in the row.

From the following link: Pop-up and/or Starter Fertilizers for Corn (http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/3002/3002-1438/3002-1438_pdf.pdf)

For urea containing fertilizers,
ammonia is formed during the conversion of urea and can be toxic to plants. When high rates of urea
are applied and this conversion happens near the seedlings, injury or death can occur. For these reasons,
maximum rates of N plus K2O applied in pop-up fertilizers should not exceed 10 lbs/acre for silt loam
and clay loam soils. For sandy and sandy loam soils or soils with dry conditions at planting, the rates of
N plus K2O applied with the seed should not exceed 5 lbs/acre.More at this link: GUIDELINES FOR RATES AND PLACEMENT OF ROW FERTILIZER (http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/support/library/ff/Row_Fertilizer_Placement_Limits.htm)

How much nitrogen does corn need?

Based on the following we see that 100 bushel corn would require 125#'s of actual N or close to 260#'s of 46-0-0 urea per acre!

Fertilization should be done on the basis of soil tests and yield goals. Corn requires approximately 1.25 lbs. of elemental nitrogen (N), 0.6 lbs. of phosphate (P2O5) and 1.4 lbs. of potash (K2O) to produce one bushel of grain corn. Nitrogen may be applied before planting, at planting time, as a side dressing after corn has emerged, or through an irrigation sprinkler system. Fall application of N is not recommended on sandy soils, soils subject to flooding or high water table soils.

Starter fertilizer can be applied with the planter in a band to the side and below the seed. The entire recommended fertilizer rate can be safely applied in a band 2 inches to the side and 2 inches below the seed, although N rates higher than 50 lb/acre may inhibit early season P uptake because the band may be too "hot" for plant roots until nitrification takes place. Under cool, wet conditions, starter fertilizer offers some advantage. "Popup" fertilization, the placement of fertilizer in small amounts directly with corn seed, has been used. "Popup" fertilizer application should not exceed 5-10 pounds of N, 10 pounds of P2O5 and 5 pounds of K2O per acre. This N calculator allows you to play around with different types of N and see how much it recommends depending on if this is corn on corn or corn on soybeans.

Corn N calculator (http://extension.agron.iastate.edu/soilfertility/nrate.aspx)

From that we see that corn on corn might require as much as 450#'s of urea or 300#'s following soybeans! Now it's true we are not attempting to get 200 bushel yields necessarily but we still want a good crop of high yielding corn to hold hungry whitetails on our property.

What about nitrogen from legumes?

Nitrogen is fixed by legumes for it's own use and is only made available to another plant or crop as the plant decompose after being killed or to a lesser extent as leaves and roots die and decompose from the living legume plant. How much N is fixed and later released varies widely by species and soil conditions but alfalfa, clover and hairy vetch are some common legumes that produce from 60-200#'s of N. Soybeans fix from 15-60#'s with 30-40 being more common and one of the reasons farmers follow soybeans with corn.

Nitrogen is released slowly from decomposing legumes and that may take as long as two growing seasons, so the effects are fairly long lasting. Alfalfa is not manageable by most small plotters by white and red clover certainly is! Of those two white clover will fix more N and can easily be rotated with corn and brassicas.

When I disc under white clover it typically returns by the following spring so it's a viable option for RR corn or any other crop rotation to help lower your N needs as well as becoming another means of providing year around food sources to adapt deer to feeding in a centralized area.

Lot's of options to provide enough nitrogen to grow lush healthy crops and one of them is bound to work well for you.... :way:

[dbltree]

Mike sent some pictures of the "fertilizer he has applied....4000 gallons per acre of liquid dairy manure!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/Manure2.jpg

It costs him $63 an acre and it's all the fertilizer he applies!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/Manure1.jpg

looking back thru this thread we can see Mike grows some beautiful crops too!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/Manure3.jpg

if livestock or poultry manure is available in your area..it is usually a less expensive alternative to synthetic fertilizers... ;)

[turkeyriver]

While manure is definitely a good source of fertilizer, know what you're getting. Some outdoor lagoons have a LOT of water in them, while under building pits are full of very potent stuff. There will also be a drying out period before further field work is done.

[LoessHillsArcher]

While manure is definitely a good source of fertilizer, know what you're getting. Some outdoor lagoons have a LOT of water in them, while under building pits are full of very potent stuff. There will also be a drying out period before further field work is done.

Yup, we have 20,000 hogs near our farms and that manure is put on our farm every year. It can be a real pain in the rear. But the system Mike has appears much much better. His 4,000 gallons vs 20,000 gallons per acre and having it spread vs knifed in seems like a much better system for a food plotter. In our scenario, knifing in 20,000 gallons of watered down manure makes for soggy fields and those tractors leave some HUGE ruts when they want to go back through the swamp to get their manure hoses...

[dbltree]

Some WI corn got planted today...Mike got that dairy manure worked in some corn in the ground

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/MikesCorn5-4-11.jpg

Dang that sure is pretty!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/MikesCornPlanting5-4-2011.jpg

We finally have some nice warm weather headed our way...bout time!

[dbltree]

Crop Watch Blog (http://www.iowafarmertoday.com/blog/) good information on early planted corn, growing degree days and cool wet soils.... ;)

[IQDM]

Interesting stuff Paul! Plant deep and dry :way:

[spltbrow]

I planted 2 acres of corn on the outside edge of field yesterday. About how long do i wait untill i spray with round up. The field was an old alpalpha field that we disced up. lots of grass in it. I still have 3 acres of eagle beans to plant on the inside of the corn.

[dbltree]

I planted 2 acres of corn on the outside edge of field yesterday. About how long do i wait untill i spray with round up. The field was an old alpalpha field that we disced up. lots of grass in it. I still have 3 acres of eagle beans to plant on the inside of the corn.

I would let the grass start to regrow and then nuke it good but you'll need repeated applications if no other herbicide is used because corn doesn't canopy to the extent soybeans do. ;)

[dbltree]

May 10th, 2011

I sprayed this grass/alfalfa field a little over a week ago with 2 quarts of 41% glyphosate per acre

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0038.jpg

and no-tilled soybeans into the sod
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0040.jpg

The soil was still too wet and too cold but the planter seemed to cover the seed reasonably well

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0042.jpg

I checked on my "babies" and they are germinating

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0049.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0050.jpg

and hopefully will be up soon!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0051.jpg

The weather warmed up considerably and dried out the wet soils so I was able to plant more beans under much better conditions. The soil now loose and crumbly

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2753.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2755.jpg

I no-tilled into all kinds of "stuff"

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2754.jpg

Including clover, alfalfa, grass sod, corn, brassica and bean stubble

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2756.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2769.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2770.jpg

I nuked it all with 2 quarts of gly last night so it will be interesting to see how the alfalfa and clover react and what the field will look like in a few weeks.... ;)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2771.jpg

[KSHUNTER]

I planted 1.5 acres of RR corn last weekend, I will be spraying it with Harness Extra this weekend if it not to wet.

The corn is planted in a strip of about 80 feet wide, there is good black dirt on both ends, but in the middle has a lot of clay. I planted rye there last fall and worked it in as green manure this spring. I want to overseed the area where the clay is with Groundhog Forage Radish to lossen the hardpan and start mellowing the soil out. When should i overseed, and will the residual from the Harness Extra keep the GFR from germinating? Also I incorperated 320 pounds per acre of Urea, will this be enough N to service both the corn and GFR?

[dbltree]

I planted 1.5 acres of RR corn last weekend, I will be spraying it with Harness Extra this weekend if it not to wet.

The corn is planted in a strip of about 80 feet wide, there is good black dirt on both ends, but in the middle has a lot of clay. I planted rye there last fall and worked it in as green manure this spring. I want to overseed the area where the clay is with Groundhog Forage Radish to lossen the hardpan and start mellowing the soil out. When should i overseed, and will the residual from the Harness Extra keep the GFR from germinating? Also I incorperated 320 pounds per acre of Urea, will this be enough N to service both the corn and GFR?

Late August is when we can usually think about overseeding rye and radish, perhaps early September in your area. The effects of the herbicide may be a problem however but it's difficult to say?

Probably plenty of N if the herbicides aren't a problem ;)

[spltbrow]

i have to get me a no-till planter! next year?
I just finished planting 3 acres of beans last night and had already gotten 2 acres of corn planted around whare the beans went. now all i need is rain!!
It was very interesting doing all this as this was my first time every planting anything in this quantity before. It took a little while with a 2 row planter and a 4' disc.

the field was originally an alfalfa field that was let go and had lots of sod and grasses.

This year gave me a good idea on what type of equipment i want to purchase for next year.

Feels great to be done with that plot! still have one more farm to do but it is only about 1.5 acres.:)

[Sligh1]

Should have bought my 4 row NO-TILL planter I put on here for sale. :)
Even with a 4 row, takes me a while!!! And I have a 16' disk!! I couldn't imagine having 2 rows! Eventually I'd like to upgrade to a 12 row NO-TILL planter. I'd like a Kinze or a JD 7000 with some Kinze stuff.
Keep everyone posted on how your plots turn out!!!

[spltbrow]

[QUOTE=Sligh1;419084]Should have bought my 4 row NO-TILL planter I put on here for sale. :)


I know i kept debating and looking at it for sale and when i finally decided to just get it it was sold. I originally could not decide if i wanted a 7000 or a smaller flex planter. now i no and am kicking myself for not buying.:(

[dbltree]

May 13th, 2011

I recently signed the paperwork on a Continuous CRP CP-23 Wetland Restoration contract that allows me to protect my bottom land from eroding due to constant flooding. A little over and acre was never reported however so I took advantage of that to add that to my centralized food plots that will now be surrounded by timber and NWSG.

Previously in soybeans the ground worked up easily thanks to drier weather recently

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2778.jpg

With urea being my best source of nitrogen I disced in 300#'s of urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2779.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2780.jpg

Bagged urea was $15.50 a bag and 6-28-28 $19.50 a bag for a total of $250 an acre....to expensive to take a chance on getting sufficient rainfall within 24 hours or loosing the nitrogen, I disk it in.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2782.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2783.jpg

I planted more free RR seed corn
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2784.jpg

of course deer won't eat it unless the rows are straight... ;)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/CIMG2786.jpg

It's a good feeling at days end to have another field planted...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/Endoftheday.jpg

the corn I planted April 15th finally decided to come up after the cold wet weather patterns changed to warm and sunny!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_0017.jpg

The soybeans have been in the ground about a week and are popping up too!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_0019.jpg

I sprayed the corn with 1.75 pints Dual II Magnum after planting...now for just the right amount of sun and rain this summer.... :way:

[dbltree]

Here's a caution for those using Dual II Magnum for pre-emerge weed control

Dry weather following an application of Dual II MAGNUM or a tank mixture may reduce effectiveness. Cultivate if weeds
develop.One away around that is to spray just before planting and lightly incorporate the herbicide with tillage. If RR crops are planted then simply spray with gly if weeds do emerge but if planting conventional crops there are still alternatives.

Impact is a post emergence herbicide safe and effective on corn and controls a long list of both broadleaf and annual grass weeds.

Impact Label (http://www.impactherbicide.com/PDFs/ImpactSpecLabels.pdf)

More about Impact (http://www.impactherbicide.com/faqs.html)

Clethodim can of course be used on soybeans to control grasses but NOT on corn! Most soybeans are likely to be RR so weed control is simplified for beans but it's always nice to have options for post emergence weed control in conventional corn and beans.... ;)

[KSQ2]

Can Impact be applied to RR beans? I have RR beans and conventional corn planted together, what are my post emergent spraying options?

[dbltree]

Can Impact be applied to RR beans? I have RR beans and conventional corn planted together, what are my post emergent spraying options?

Cadet is a post emergent herbicide safe on both corn and soybeans but check the label before applying

Cadet Herbicide Label (http://www.fmccrop.com/resources/pdf/cadet-herbicide-4-20-09-commercial.pdf)

Impact can NOT be applied to soybeans...;)

[KSQ2]

Just found out the free seed I got is RR!!! I needed some good news this soggy Wednesday morning.

[Sligh1]

Just found out the free seed I got is RR!!! I needed some good news this soggy Wednesday morning.

I haven't hardly seen seed anymore that's not round-up ready. Most people don't realize it and they see that little label somewhere on the bag. All the free seed I've got is RR too. Great news! Sure doesn't mean folks can't add stuff like Cadet, Dual, etc to things- I sure will, saves a lot of spraying and stress on the plants!

[phj]

Hi Paul,

Great looking new tractor, how is it working out for you? I would like to upgrade to a larger model; however, I need to put a few more hours on mine first.

BTW, My switchgrass is already six inches high here in Northwest Lower Michigan. This is early for this part on the country!

Take care,

Paul

[dbltree]

Hi Paul,

Great looking new tractor, how is it working out for you? I would like to upgrade to a larger model; however, I need to put a few more hours on mine first.

BTW, My switchgrass is already six inches high here in Northwest Lower Michigan. This is early for this part on the country!

Take care,

Paul

Great tractor and suits my needs well...keep us posted on your switch growth this summer Paul...:way:

[dbltree]

May 28th, 2011

Check of soybeans not-tilled into various crops....

Last seasons brassicas on the right and killed winter rye on the left

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0030-1.jpg

The areas previously in brassicas are already fairly clean

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0031-1.jpg

Winter rye stubble helps protect the beans and is easily killed with gly

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0036.jpg

The rye is easily killed but the clover is not...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0037.jpg

Soybeans no-tilled into spent brassica strips with rye and red clover left standing on either side and in this case surprisingly enough deer were focusing on the Alta-Swede red clover rather then the baby beans. I suspect that will change soon...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0038-1.jpg

Soybeans on my own farm no-tilled into killed sod/alfalfa

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0063.jpg

Fenced to protect them for now

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0064-Copy.jpg

Don Higgins beans on the right and standard ag beans on the left

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0065-Copy.jpg

Note that deer still have copious amounts of lush food sources to keep them coming year around even though the beans are fenced for now.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0068.jpg

Soybeans no-tilled into winter rye and the rye left standing....the baby beans are as of yet unmolested despite being in an unfenced area, if left alone the rye will eventually mature and just fall over and slowly fade away leaving the beans to take over. Interesting to note that there is not a weed to be found as of yet....;)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Soybeansinrye.jpg

[spltbrow]

I gotta get me a no-till. That looks good and seems like it would save much time.
When is it ok to no till and when should you disc and plant?
I disced up five acres of sod and alph-alpha with a 4' disc. That took me a while as i had to disc twice and drag once.
Next year i will be buying new equipment and replaceing what i broke this year. No till is on the list.
I have just wandered when it is and isnt good to no till.

[turkeyriver]

I'm a full-time farmer and also plant a bunch of food plots. I've no-tilled into almost every residue you can imagine. By far the biggest factor in no-till success is weed/grass control PRIOR to planting. You can no-till into grass sod IF you have previously killed the grass AND your no-till planter can cut thru the sod and place your seed correctly. Work the ground to incorporate lime or fertilizer. Of course weed control after planting is important, but round-up has made that simple with corn and beans.

[letemgrow]

I'm a full-time farmer and also plant a bunch of food plots. I've no-tilled into almost every residue you can imagine. By far the biggest factor in no-till success is weed/grass control PRIOR to planting. You can no-till into grass sod IF you have previously killed the grass AND your no-till planter can cut thru the sod and place your seed correctly. Work the ground to incorporate lime or fertilizer. Of course weed control after planting is important, but round-up has made that simple with corn and beans.

These beans were planted last year over the 4th of July holiday, then I went back the next day to spray the sod...worked like a charm and the 7000 did not even have any no-till coulters on them.


http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k445/pes1979/Habitat%20Improvements%20on%20the%20farm/Beans-1.jpg

[dbltree]

Some of you may be trying out electric fencing for deer this year and may find that some still jump even the double fence. I have detailed instructions on building E fence and also how I overcame the problem with "jumpers" in my thread on electric fencing on Outreach Outdoors.

Here's a link if you need more info...

Equipment thread (http://www.outreachoutdoors.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=32)

I bought a new sprayer...some good info on that as well in that thread...;)

[Nontypcl1]

Thanks for posting that. I'm already working on gathering supplies for next year. I've got about a mile of old fence to take down with tons of "free" T-posts.

"Free" = Fencing supplies for hours of sweat and hard work in an area inaccessible to the tractor;)

[dbltree]

June 10th, 2011

This is the 4th year in a row we have been inundated with non-stop heavy rainfall here in SE Iowa and I am thankful that my ground is "well drained" and my corn is not drowning...yet...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_5091.jpg

The Dual II Magnum herbicide is keeping it pretty clean despite the heavy rainfall that often leaches residual acting herbicides beyond the effective zone.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_5113.jpg

The only weeds that seem to get past Dual are velvetleaf but a does of glyphosate on the RR corn will take care of that problem... ;)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_5112.jpg

The wet weather is prompting an explosion of foxtail in this soybean plot but it's far from being a problem yet. Real World soybeans in this picture...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5087.jpg

The RR ag soybeans look great and are really taking off with the onset of some hot humid weather this past week.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5088.jpg

A dose of gly in a few weeks will clean up the foxtail problem and allow the beans to canopy and hopefully negate the need for anymore herbicide applications.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5089.jpg

Great to watch the beans grow safely tucked behind the electric fence.... :way:

[Sligh1]

Looks amazing! What seed population did you seed at with your corn?
The beans in those pictures the "free beans" we all got?

[dbltree]

Looks amazing! What seed population did you seed at with your corn?
The beans in those pictures the "free beans" we all got?

32,000 on the corn but I was running out as I got to the end so it's a little thin there. All the corn and bean seed is the free seed we got last fall Skip...;)

[waylonb19]

Dbltree I was wondering how much a bag of your free soybean seed you got weighed. I planted last weekend and was logging in my book to keep track of my rates (I broadcasted) and forgot to weigh my bag of soybean seed to see if they were 50 or 40lbs. I had the same seed as you is why I am asking. I hope they were 40 cause that would mean I broadcasted roughly 300,000 seeds per acre. If they are 50 I over did it a bit. :D

[turkeyriver]

Soybean seed used to always be 50 lb. bags. But soy seed can vary from 2400 to 3600 seeds per pound. So, in the last couple of years, they have started to sell soy seed in 140,000 seed bags. Weight per bag can therefore vary quite a bit. If it was plot seed that was only one year old, it was prob 140,000 seeds per bag.

[dbltree]

The seed we used was all 50# bags and each was marked with "seeds per pound" just as turkeyriver mentioned and the varied within the range mentioned as well....;)

[waylonb19]

Well looks like I overseeded. They felt like 40lb bags. So I broadcasted 330,000 seeds per acre. Hope the deer help me out and do some thinning for me. :D

[Sligh1]

You will be fine- the germination rates on that free seed are for sure not what they were a year ago & in a plot the deer will for sure thin them. You'll be fine.

[dbltree]

Some interesting things of interest among the various soybean plots I have planted this spring...always something to learn and pass on that may help others.

For comparison only...Lee and Tiff's soybeans....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5135.jpg

Soybeans I no-tilled into killed winter rye...clean as a whistle and healthy to boot!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5128.jpg

An idea of height in mid June and these happen to be on this side of the E fence

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5129.jpg

These were planted into dead brassicas...not quite as clean as those in winter rye but far better then those planted following corn

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5130.jpg

Unfenced beans following brassicas but in strip plots where they have copious amounts of white and red clover to keep them from killing the beans.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5133.jpg

Another field, another farm...like the previous situation, a hidden field but where there are no other crops or food sources...I planted these a day before those shown above.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2997.jpg

The difference is that they are already being decimated

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2999.jpg

almost 3 acres of RR soybeans being grazed very heavily

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2998.jpg

In time....we'll change that by incorporating other crops that provide deer with plenty of high quality feed year around and lesson their impact on easily devoured crops like beans. These deer have had nothing but natural browse since no crops were grown last year and they are adapted to feeding ONLY on corn and beans....and will soon wipe these out.

Take advantage of the allelopathic advantages of rye and brassicas in your crop rotations, utilize clovers to keep deer fed and drawn to your centrally located feeding area year around and be prepared to add electric fencing if deer numbers are higher then your food sources can tolerate.... ;)

[waylonb19]

Looks like Tiff needs to get to spraying. My beans have started to sprout. It needs to quit raining and put some heat to them now.

[dbltree]

June 14th, 2011

Almost 60 days exactly after planting the first corn for the year...after which it endured nearly 3 weeks of abnormally cold wet weather, the corn that eventually came up has done well and is over knee high already...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_5150.jpg

Some of it is thin so I eventually replanted more then a month later and overlapped with some more soybeans...just for fun

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_5147.jpg

I planted along side the existing rows to keep from damaging what corn did come up....note that the combination of winter rye and Dual II Magnum has kept the field very clean!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_5145.jpg

4 times my son and I have been rained out while trying to get the electric fence fully finished, weeds sprayed and everything in place...yesterday made the 5th time when once again a storm drove me out! I did get some more work done including lowering the bottom wires where the fence cross some low areas because some deer were slipping under neath it!

Grrr! Pesky things!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_5146.jpg

Again...the allelopathic effects of the winter rye are obvious as the soybeans remain weed free!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_5142.jpg

Just as obvious is the Alice white clover that remains unphased by an earlier application of glyphosate!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_5144.jpg

Perhaps this is fortunate however because the deer that have slipped under the fence have been focusing on the white clover

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_5148.jpg

Where I disced under the white clover for corn, it's already coming back...not hurting the corn in the least, making it in effect a perpetual food and nitrogen source.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_5149.jpg

Earlier I posted in the brassica thread, pictures of the GroundHog Forage radish that had come up this spring from ungerminated seed broadcast into standing milo and soybeans last fall. Discing the soil prompted the seed to germinate and that in turn led to deer feasting on the tasty brassicas, despite...the tender baby soybeans and corn!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_5152.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_5151.jpg

Says something for the palatability of forage radish when they pass these up!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_5143.jpg

I talk a lot about "adapting " deer to feeding in one place, year after year...all well and good until one tries to keep them out! Even with a 2 fence 5 wire electric fence, a few determined deer have found ways to get into their only known feeding area despite having food sources (including soybeans) outside the fence. I have yet to try the tinfoil and peanut butter simply because I get rained out each time I attempt to finish the project but eventually I'll try that as well.

In mid summer I'll plant a strip of Purple Top turnips down the center between the corn and soybeans and overseed the corn and beans with winter rye and forage radish...the combination of which will keep them coming back all fall, winter and spring.... :way:

[dbltree]

June 21st, 2011

My corn is really looking great...I can't imagine spraying it with glyphosate only to find it wasn't RR and I killed it all!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/6-20corn.jpg

That very thing has happened in some cases where seed given away, was incorrectly marked and a beautiful plot was inadvertently destroyed. I always test mine by spraying a band across the field with a BP sprayer and sure enough...not all of mine is RR!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_5264.jpg

I used Dual II Magnum so I don't need to follow up with gly anyway but had I done so the results would have been disastrous. Soybeans can be the same way, so I test them as well....so far so good!

The foxtail in this band is all dead but the beans unharmed...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5251.jpg

Interesting to compare beans inside and outside the fence, in effect an example of an exclusion cage.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5256.jpg

Beans inside the fence

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/6-20Soybeans.jpg

Beans a few feet away outside the fence

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5253.jpg

All plants outside have been grazed

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/CIMG2998.jpg

At first glance they appear healthy and unharmed

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5254.jpg

but closer inspection reveals that each stem has been grazed

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5255.jpg

When soybeans are young, they can easily be decimated by grazing and even forage beans can quickly be destroyed if planted in small unprotected plots. Put up an exclusion cage to check grazing pressure on your plots.... ;)

[nannyslayer]

Paul, go to your local chemical dealer and get some cadet and bicep. You can get great control with both of them, and are crop safe.

We had a case this year where the guy wasn't sure of what the "free" corn get got from another seed dealer was, so we ended up using Callisto/dual/atrizine (Lexar) on the corn.