- Deleted by Sligh1
- Reason: duplicate
I don't think you can ever quantify deer quality in a bullet proof study. All you need is COMMON SENSE & years of experiencing the hunting in XYZ places to understand this. That's it & this can be SIMPLY EXPLAINED.... then folks can judge for themselves if the COMMON SENSE is really that and does hold up. When we talk about HIGH POWERS & eventually coming to Iowa....
Common sense to me is all that's required, I'll just give the TIP OF THE ICE BURG HERE, just some EXAMPLES to think about....
1) I've personally lived on 2 "MAGIC RIFLE LINES"...... Southern iowa VS Missouri... MO has rifles across the border. Michigan.... At least when I was there had a "MAGIC LINE" where rifles were allowed in top tier of lower Pen and not in the lower part (due to higher populations of people). in BOTH CASES...... Deer quality suffers immensely in the rifle areas. MO is an absolute joke what happens below that line. Those bucks get pummeled at 300-500 yards all rifle season - it's a blood bath and the deer quality is an absolute joke VS above the border into iowa. A joke. Anyone living down there who knows about deer quality can attest to this. It's also the timing of when rifles are out, NO DOUBT but the fact they have high powers out VS shotguns.... it's unreal the difference & how many young up & comers get rifled down in MO & those hunters across the border are applying for NR Iowa tags to hunt here where we don't have that. Deer quality night and day. Same with MI, for other reasons as well BUT, you cross into "rifle land" - simply "it sucks"
2) realistic killable max range with SHOTGUN..., MAYBE 200-250 yards. Realistic gun drives, guys doing their best from stand: 125 yards. HIGH POWER RIFLES.... max range, 600-800 yards maybe (sure, yes, someone can probably do a 1000 yard shot+). Realistic, 300-400 is very doable. Basically, triple the range. REALITY: shotgunners need close shots and still miss "quite often". Rifle hunters can see a "dot" across a big field, scope it out and send a rifle round across the field not really even knowing how big, old or whatever the buck really is. Rifles are long range extremely effective big game killers, shotguns are no where close. Watching rifle hunters in S Iowa during shed buck season, the long distance shots were a huge part of the reason all the shed bucks and button bucks got killed - the deer were so far away, no one can really assess what they are shooting at. That impacts the herd quality, management ability & hunters making "wise kills" big time.
3) REGULATION CHANGES... Folks who really understand. For guys who have only hunted "one area" their whole life, this might be harder to understand, but I'll tell you a very true story with several quick examples that any person reading this who lives in "XYZ" place can attest to.... what regulation changes of a variety of forms (most starting with incremental changes and it SNOW BALLED into disaster) can do to ANY PLACE.....
A) Illinois used to be fantastic. Before all the publicity, I put in for a preference point or lottery and sometimes got a tag. Saw MAMMOTH deer there & fantastic hunting about 15 years ago. Each year, more tags, more publicity. Finally, flood gates run wide open so anyone can get tags and every Tom Dick & Harry is out pounding every block.... that state went down the tubes so stinking fast it's sick. I mean, literally, 2-5 years I'd see 10 bucks/year over 160" & great age structure. By the time I quit going, almost every nice 2 & 3 year old I knew on MULTIPLE FARMS was getting pummeled and if I saw one buck over 160", i was LUCKY. It took less than a decade & it was OVER! Unless you owned a giant farm or got lucky with neighbors, at least 6 areas I hunted, all the same - disaster.
B) I have 3 different neighbors from WISCONSIN, none of which even know eachother - that bought land in Iowa. They all quit hunting their own state. All of them moved down here (put in for points or party hunt) to hunt after WI did the "earn a buck" and both populations declined, more hunters out due to popularity over the years and the rifling down of all the young bucks on smaller pieces of land. They all couldn't afford the high dollar huge parcels that get protected in places like Buffalo county, etc. So, they left to come to the "last great place" & don't even hunt their home states.
C) POSITIVE EXAMPLE: look at what happened to Indiana & maybe examples like Ohio, KY (whenever this happened) when their regs go from 2 bucks to 1 buck. All of the sudden, bam, their quality goes from "crap" to "pretty decent". Sure, IN took a major step back with all their new weapons but when they made a POSITIVE change, I know countless guys there that said "geesh, actually getting dang good here". Positive changes are the EXCEPTION rather than the rule though unfortunately.
D) KS- fantastic. Still is. Not like it was though..... Opening flood gates, leasing, outfitting was able to explode due to ability to get tags for everyone VS a tight draw before. Again, giant landowners, not a huge deal - the everyday guy, OUCH, I talk to em all the time. Hunting has degraded, access decreased, deer quality has been hurt. It's still a great place but not near what it once was.
"OPPORTUNITY FOR NEW HUNTERS!!!!!!"...... I'm just gonna say it how it is. No disrespect. BUT.... Biggest bunch of Horse-SH** argument I ever heard in my life! Biggest smoke screen BS garbage on earth. It's an emotional argument the special interest & politicians have fooled many into believing. In short, here's why.....
1) I 100% believe if young folks aren't hunting, it's far more to do with things like: being glued to video games and the culture we live in. If not, here's the far more difficult reason....
2) If a young person wants to hunt now days & doesn't, is it REALLY because "oh man, that gun kicks too much. Geesh, that bow & arrow is too hard to pull back, I need a crossbow!!!!"?????? Is that the reason?? BS it is!!!!!!!!! Any kid has 4 months with their special season we carved out for them. The REAL REASON....... They ain't got a place to go that's worth a piss!!!!!!!!!! What, state land that's piss pounded to no end? A $3k/year lease? A lot of kids sure could afford that! So, what's a kid to do..... Go see nothing on overhunted garbage? (and if it's overhunted, which we know most farms are - are we really lacking in hunters?????). Go knock on 20 doors to get 20 people to say "sorry, I'm filled to the max with hunters, nope". Or, they go hunt the woods that had droves of guys killing everything off - just what a youngster likes, seeing little to no deer (yes, as a grown man, I don't mind it BUT kids need "lots of deer" & excitement & the away from the crowds experience to really have fun & get hooked). There's NO LACK OF DEER HUNTERS!!!!! No Politician is ever gonna convince me of this. Go to ANY FARM in iowa, any where, throw a dart on a map, go walk out in the field & timber, it will be FULL of treestands, deer blinds, no trespassing signs, etc. WHY?!?!?!? We have a lot of hunters and we have a large % of hunters watching the incremental destruction & exploitation of the resource & they are buying up land by the droves to protect what they love. Can anyone blame them? What happens to the little guy? Gets stuck with NO WHERE TO HUNT! This is the reality. No new weapon is gonna bring kids out - on the contrary, the more we see, the less access kids will have, no doubt in my mind. We have a cultural problem with our kids but more-so an ACCESS ISSUE that's only getting worse with incremental degrading of Iowa's resource & quality. We all know what Iowa would look like if we open up to: crossbows, rifles & move seasons around or add them. We all seen what the shed buck season did. We all know what's happened to Iowa's access over the last 10-20 years. WAKE UP. In 5-10 years, you honestly could look at the regs and say "dude, game over man, iowa is done as we knew it". FOR REAL, this is not just "sky is falling" stuff, this has happened all over the country and I've seen it with my own eyes countless times. WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!