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Cloning deer for bigger racks....

Shovelbuck

Active Member
What a sorry state of affairs this could be. It all boils down to one thing...money! Why can't they be content and just grow them the old fashioned way? I've never hunted Texas so my only hunting knowledge is from what I've seen on tv and videos. But from what I've seen, they should be more concerned about breeding some common sence into the herd. They have got to have some of the stupidest deer I've ever seen! Ever notice they are allways standing by a road? That's convenient! I like big racks but I'll stick to replicas before I would want a cloned copy. If I've offended some Texan's I'm sorry but that's my opinion.
 
I started chasing Wt's about 35 years ago, and one of the motivators then, was the fact that you could "not" buy a "book" WT. Muleys and Elk, and nearly any other big game you could book a hunt that would guarantee a Boonie. Boy it has changed. The whitetails has to be the most commercialized big game animals on the face of the earth. Leasing, high fences, selective breeding and all of the other QDM is just trashing all respect for a big whitetails as a trophy. However free running wt's are still the greatest game in town. Thank you Ray and Jackie
 
This should throw Boone & Crocket, Pope & Young scorers into a tizzy.....cloning deer for bigger racks....

http://www.thebatt.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/02/18/3e51d42de7974

Deer cloning aims to bring in bigger bucks
By Lecia Baker
February 18, 2003

Texas A&M began a white-tail deer cloning project last fall intended to increase scientists' knowledge of white-tail deer genetics, said Dr. Mark E. Westhusin, associate professor of the Veterinary Medicine Department.

The project is focused on the combination of feed and genetic background needed to produce large bucks, he said.

The information gathered from the cloning project could be used to produce larger bucks with bigger antlers that would appeal to Texas hunters, Westhusin said.

"We want to know how much the antler growth is dependent on genetics," Westhusin said.

The project addresses the task of conserving the genetic material from deer

"We need to collect cells or semen from unusually large deer to conserve the genetic basis before they die," Westhusin said. "We have the technologies to clone the animal, and we don't want to lose the genetic pool out of the population."

Widespread interest in the project stems from the huge impact of the hunting industry on Texas and the entire United States, Westhusin said.

Nate Nichols, a senior industrial distribution major, said he would prefer hunting to remain more natural, rather than hunting genetically-enhanced deer that would allow him to mount a bigger set of antlers in his home.

Cloning would take the fun and the sport out of hunting, he said.

Fellow hunter and senior finance major Landon Stone said he felt cloning large deer would attract more people to hunting.

Texas has more than 1.2 million licensed hunters, which is one out of every 18 Texas residents, said Dr. Billy Higginbotham, professor and extension wildlife and fisheries specialist for A&M. Hunters in Texas spend more than $3.6 billion annually, according to the Congressional Sportsman's Foundation.

"Hunting as an industry in Texas provides 31,711 jobs, salaries and wages of over $864 million, and generates $93 million in state sales tax revenue," Higginbotham said.

Although Texas has the largest deer herd of any state, at an estimate of three to four million head, it does not mean the entire range in Texas is over-populated, Higginbotham said. Some regions in Texas have larger deer populations than others, he said.

Important reasons Texans give for going hunting are family and friendship networks, obtaining meat and escaping urban environments, he said.

"Pursuit of trophies ranked way down on the list as a reason given by Texans to hunt," Higgenbotham said. "Quality hunting experiences revolve around the hunt, not the kill."

A trophy is something that should be worked for, involving skill and persistence, he said. If the pursuit of the trophy is reduced because large deer and big antlers can be cloned, the essence of pursuing that trophy is lost in the process, Higginbotham said.

In Feb. 2002, A&M scientists produced the world's first cloned cat, nicknamed "Cc" for "carbon copy." Last November, A&M announced the end of its "Missyplicity Project," an unsuccesful attempt to clone Arizona businessman John Sperling's pet dog.

Westhusin said all the deer clones have been implanted in the surrogate mothers and the timeline of the project will remain unknown until the first deer clone has been born.
 
IMO... I just knew this would come up someday. Alot is about money,and alot is about antler hype.Talk about taking the hunt out of the hunt.Texas has to come north to hunt truely wild deer as it is.I think the cloning will happen and people will hunt the clones.This will lessen the real hunters achievements. It has already lessened a nice bow kill that would score 110 or 120 as not very good.20 years ago there would have been big talk around town.I think some people would agree with me.
This cloning will be something that can't be stopped and just think what non hunters will think.
Poachers will do anything to get the monster buck and in a little different way so will the clone hunters.
Poachers,if caught,pay money.
Clone hunters,pay money up front.

This is my oppinion.Anybody with me.
 
If you thought "Rompola Gate" was a stinky mess...wait till someone takes a world record and accusations of cloning begin. Probably could do DNA testing to see if it has been reproduced. Similar things have happened in professional sports where longstanding records have been toppled....like accusations that todays homerun hitters use steroids where as Babe Ruth & Lou Gehrig didn't. Aluminum bats-vs-wood bats, etc, etc....this will only add to doubts whether a new world or state record is legit.

The process of natural selection has proven to weed out inferior genetics in the species...wonder if cloned deer would be like "Butterball Turkeys".....where they don't adapt to wild environments due to lost natural instincts....

Of course this would be the answer for non-residents flocking to Iowa for racks....now they can grow em' at home.
 
Reminds me of a story someone once told me:
A long time deer hunter was on his death bed -he looked back on his hunting career, and although he had enjoyed every minute hunting he had always wished to take a truly monster buck.

After he passed away he found himself in the most beautiful timber on a cool crisp morning. His host told him, "this timber is yours exclusively, it is full of deer, the season is perpetual and there is no limit to the deer you can harvest." Excited the hunter climbed into the stand that was waiting for him. He didn't have time to relax because just at that moment the largest buck he had ever seen came down the trail. Despite the fact that the hunter made all sorts of movement to prepare for the shot and the light breeze was blowing directly to the deer, the deer calmly walked to 20 yards and stopped broad side. The hunter shot and the deer fell in its tracks. The hunter claimed his prize - a perfectly symetrical 12 pointer with long tines and great mass - he was sure it would score well over 200". The hunter thought to himself, 'I'm in deer hunting Heaven'.

The next day the weather was again beautiful and cool and as the hunter climbed into his stand the same thing happened. Moments after climbing in a huge buck came down the trail and despite carelessness on the part of the hunter, the deer stopped braodside at 20 yards, the hunter shot and the deer dropped in his tracks. Once again it was a perfect 12 pointer scoring over 200".

The same thing happened day after day, week after week. Now bored and loosing interest, the hunter went in to the hunting camp to talk with the host. There he was greeted by several hunters, all admiring their own identical huge 12 pointer scoring over 200". The hunter approached the Host and said, "I don't understand, everyday is the same thing. What must it be like in Hell?" And the Host said, "And just where do you think you are?".
 
I hate to say it but as long as we deer hunters continue put our selves in competation with each other over the size of antlers and make heros and video stars of some hunters because of the huge antlers they harvest, this kind of thing will only get worse. We seem to gauge hunting skill, marksmanship, and sportsmanship by antler size. Cloning and selective breeding are the next steps in the science of deer. We have already progressed through QDM and nutrition and mineral supplements to increase antler size. These are all things that deer hunters 50 years ago wouldn't have even thought of. When they put out a salt block it was for a very different reason.

At one point big deer were quite rare and that is what made them so special. As the management practices increase the number of deer going over 150 then they become less and less special. The next step maybe to have book requirements of 180 or 200, because those deer are still some what unique. These bucks aren't getting bigger because they are any smarter or sneakier we just raise them bigger with current methods.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't appreciate these big bucks and enjoy the sight of them, but I think we must stop almost worshipping them, because science and nature will only keep changing the rules.
 
I do not care if the rack is on a deer or a woman, I love the natural ones. In my humble opinion the engineered ones are nice to look at but they just are not for me.

IaCraig
 
It's one thing to try to improve the natural potential of animals by ensuring they have adequate food of high quality, minerals, and are allowed to grow to a mature age. Completely different matter to try to create monster deer by artificial insemination or cloning. This is one reason why animals killed behind fenced enclosures are not elgible for most record books. No one is going to create super deer and turn them lose on unfenced acreage where they can wander off and be shot by others.
 
if there was big deer once there will be big deer again plain and simple. DOES anyone else think this could ruin how special a big deer is. i mean if there was 100 beatty bucks would it really be that special??? i likie to hunt for big deer not buy them, sorry
 
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