singlecoyote
Proud member of the IBA
Seriously, there is a difference. Morally, ethically, agriculturally, scientifically, legally, whatever. There is a difference, you said it yourself.
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Seriously, there is a difference. Morally, ethically, agriculturally, scientifically, legally, whatever. There is a difference, you said it yourself.
SaskGuy
Active Member
Very true..and another difference was that the food plot didn't grow, hard to get much to grow in jackpine sand other than jackpines.
Legally there is obviously a difference,..but where it's legal I'm not sure there is in regards to maorally or ethically.
Time for honesty on my part,..I don't get overly excited over whitetails I see killed over bait...not sure why. I don't like it in my area b/c the past few yrs people doing it have really altered traditional deer travel patterns. I suspect this is happeneing all over the place with the location of small food plots too. But I'm also starting to lose excitement over alot of things I see in the world of whitetails because to me it's becoming a little bit too commercialized, a little too much about selling a product, a little too much like deer farming. I'd rather read about a whitetail killed somewhere that bait pile or a small food plot did not come into play. They all interest me, some just interest me more. Hey..diff't strokes for diff't folks.
Legally there is obviously a difference,..but where it's legal I'm not sure there is in regards to maorally or ethically.
Time for honesty on my part,..I don't get overly excited over whitetails I see killed over bait...not sure why. I don't like it in my area b/c the past few yrs people doing it have really altered traditional deer travel patterns. I suspect this is happeneing all over the place with the location of small food plots too. But I'm also starting to lose excitement over alot of things I see in the world of whitetails because to me it's becoming a little bit too commercialized, a little too much about selling a product, a little too much like deer farming. I'd rather read about a whitetail killed somewhere that bait pile or a small food plot did not come into play. They all interest me, some just interest me more. Hey..diff't strokes for diff't folks.
sofakingfast_1
Active Member
Amen on that. The same people who are complaining about it being a rich mans sport are the ones planting food plots. Spending thousands of dollars a year to hunt. High-tech bows. Rangefinders. Mules. Food plots. I could go on. These deer aren't going starve. What happened to when you and your grandpa could walk out into the timber and sit on a log or a lawn chair to hunt. That's real hunting. I can't even do that anymore. I cant afford paying over 500 dollars to hunt in Iowa for 2 days with grandpa. Why? Because of the the people making it a rich mans sport.
G6
Active Member
:way: Interesting opinions on this subject guys, but I'm with Kaare and Sofakingfast. Whitetail hunting is never going to be like it used to be 30 years ago no matter how much we want it to be, it's just sad. I can say this though I do like the chance to see more deer and bigger bucks that this new age of deer hunting has spawned but that's where it ends for me. Good luck this weekend to the guys that are still busting their butts out there. :way:
Guys we have our own DNR boys thinking a little differently on this subject, even they are not sure where to draw the line. Some of you have mentioned Lee and Tiffany, dont be blinded they use baiting for most of there hunts. All of you who dont think this is what there doing are full of it. My favorite ones are the "dumping a pile of corn is WAY different, than a 1/2 acre turnip field"
, thats a joke. One you only have to hang 1 stand and the other you have to hang 2. Great topic, I have to say hands down it is a form of baiting.
, thats a joke. One you only have to hang 1 stand and the other you have to hang 2. Great topic, I have to say hands down it is a form of baiting.
SaskGuy
Active Member
It's almost as if there are 3 forms of deer hunting in today's world. Tjose grown and hunted behind a fence, those that are "aided" in the form of "farming for wildlife" whether it be food plots of supplemental feeding and those that get get by on what mother nature provides along with what agriculture is there for harvesting purposes.
I liked things better when there was one.
I liked things better when there was one.
Thinkin Rut
PMA Member
The only difference between baiting and food plots is that the DNR says one is legal and the other illegal.
sofakingfast_1
Active Member
Iowabowtech
New Member
I really think it's bordering hypocritical to debate the virtue of ag fields to food plots here in the heartland in particular. With few exceptions, we all benefit from grain here. It's why we have such a great whitetail resource. Even if we hunt in the timber, there are likely fields nearby enough that they are acting as an attractant and nutrient provider. So if I shoot a buck in early November over or even in the ballpark of an ag field, it's fine and dandy but if a guy kills one over a standing food plot containing the exact same grain some weeks later it's a ethics issue? That's a weak argument in my book. Iowa is one big food plot. Even after the fields are harvested, the deer are hitting them and staying in the area because of their existence.
I CAN see Kaare's argument because the wilderness factor changes the scope of things. JMO and I don't even hunt over food plots other than a little rinky dink POS hidden plot I tried last year that was worthless. I'm just trying to think rationally about the differences between the two scenarios and I ain't seeing it where the midwest is concerned. Even if the only question is legality, as already mentioned the DNR as well as County Conservation Boards, plant plots regularly. And to answer somebody's question from earilier in the thread...they do NOT harvest them in most if not nearly all cases. They are there planted for wildlife attraction and enrichment knowingly and with malice of forethought in PUBLIC HUNTING AREAS. Having worked for 2 separate CCB's, I can attest to that.
I CAN see Kaare's argument because the wilderness factor changes the scope of things. JMO and I don't even hunt over food plots other than a little rinky dink POS hidden plot I tried last year that was worthless. I'm just trying to think rationally about the differences between the two scenarios and I ain't seeing it where the midwest is concerned. Even if the only question is legality, as already mentioned the DNR as well as County Conservation Boards, plant plots regularly. And to answer somebody's question from earilier in the thread...they do NOT harvest them in most if not nearly all cases. They are there planted for wildlife attraction and enrichment knowingly and with malice of forethought in PUBLIC HUNTING AREAS. Having worked for 2 separate CCB's, I can attest to that.
I think the DNR in Iowa should just make baiting legal.I doubt it would do any good.I doubt you would have any luck at all dumping a 5 gallon bucket of corn on the ground when there probably is 160 acres of standing corn within half mile.
I look at food plots as a form of baiting but I also think they are good.The hunting season lasts a couple months but the wildlife benifit from food plots all year.
The difference in food plots and "illegal" baiting in my opinion is like speeding.Driving 56mph in a 55mph zone is technically "speeding" but you will never get a ticket for it.But...drive 90mph in a 55 (like using C'mere Deer) you have a serious problem.
Why is hunting over a food plot any more baiting than using a doe decoy or doe-in-estrus scent?Its all baiting in a way but all legal in Iowa.
I look at food plots as a form of baiting but I also think they are good.The hunting season lasts a couple months but the wildlife benifit from food plots all year.
The difference in food plots and "illegal" baiting in my opinion is like speeding.Driving 56mph in a 55mph zone is technically "speeding" but you will never get a ticket for it.But...drive 90mph in a 55 (like using C'mere Deer) you have a serious problem.
Why is hunting over a food plot any more baiting than using a doe decoy or doe-in-estrus scent?Its all baiting in a way but all legal in Iowa.
IowaMonsterBucks
New Member
Having grown up in Texas, I've seen how the other half lives. No one hunts down there without putting out a feeder or a salt block. Since I've lived here, I've always appreciated the extra effort that was required to harvest a deer here. For me, it feels more real and makes me feel like I'm experiencing the true tradition of hunting.
Having said that, I've given up judging the methods that other hunters use to take their game. There is not a DNR officer in the state that would arrest you for hunting over a food plot, so that makes it legal. If you hunt over feeders or salt blocks (and get caught), you will be arrested...so that makes it illegal.
Having said that, I've given up judging the methods that other hunters use to take their game. There is not a DNR officer in the state that would arrest you for hunting over a food plot, so that makes it legal. If you hunt over feeders or salt blocks (and get caught), you will be arrested...so that makes it illegal.
BriarwoodBottoms
Active Member
I wanted to jump in on this topic a long time ago but anyways. Kaare I think you are probably one of the coolest guys out there and I have never even met you. I respect everything you bring to this site and your passion for the outdoors. My Grandpa has a 160 acre farm. 120 of it is tillable and the rest was old pasture ground and an old river channel. For the last 10 years I have planted hardwoods, pines, prairie grasses, fruit trees, nut trees you name it. Also I have about 4 to 5 acres of standing crops each season of beans and corn. I absolutely love to improve the quality the land for wildlife, which includes rabbits, pheasants, song birds, turkeys, and yes Deer. Do I think that hunting over a standing soybean field in December with a muzzleloader is even close to wrong or baiting, no. My most enjoyable hunts have been when my tiny little tract of land that I do not even own has deer (like 6 to 8) come into one of my food plots that I planned out and planted. I have never killed a mature buck off of them but I have felt better about the deer heard's health and the availablity of food for them. There are absolutely no gaurantees to harvesting or seeing a giant just because you farm for wildlife. Do the deer need the extra grain for survival absolutely not. Baiting to harvest and type of whitetail is hands down lazy. You can put out your choice of attractant anywhere you please to be effective. I agree that you are not going to kill giant bucks off of it typically but you will get an oppurtunity to harvest a deer. To compare a food plot to a bait pile is ridiculous. As far as I'm concerned they are not comparable. Just my opinion. And Kaare I am not picking on you with this post just giving my opinion. Like I said before totally respect your contributions to the site. The DNR will never be able to outlaw food plots for hunting because how in the world would you regulate a year like this with the late crop. If you had one small spot to hunt, lets say gun hunt, and the farmer has not gotten his crop picked before the season are you telling me that the person should not be able to hunt the property. You can not blame him for the weather and the farming situation.
I just had a thought that may clarify this question for some people. Once again I am not saying that hunting over food plots is illegal. The only thing I am trying to convey is why I believe that food plots fit the definition of baiting. If you plant a food plot of 3 acres of soybeans and care for it in the usual manner and then go in and harvest it a week before deer season. Now you take those beans that you harvested on that food plot, maybe 50 to 70 bushels, and dump them in 2 nice little piles in front of 2 stands or blinds, one on either end of the plot. Is this baiting or just hunting over a food plot? They are the same beans that haven't been transported and the only difference is now instead of standing on the stalks they are in a pile. What do you think the DNR would say about this, or more importantly, what do you think? Remember that you have put in all the hard work on the food plot and that the plot has attracted wildlife and held it in the area. Now because the beans are in piles does that make you a lazy hunter, even though you actually did more work that the hunter just hunting over a 3 acre food plot?
This has been a long thread and probably many people have stopped reading because it has become the same old arguments. Although I don't mean to extend this debate, I do want to try make people think in different patterns and see things MY WAY which I believe to be the only right and true way. Just at least think about it. :way:
This has been a long thread and probably many people have stopped reading because it has become the same old arguments. Although I don't mean to extend this debate, I do want to try make people think in different patterns and see things MY WAY
which I believe to be the only right and true way. Just at least think about it. :way:
G6
Active Member
I bet it would never be prosecuted if he was caught doing it though. It would have to be proven the combine didn't just dump it. Personally I don't care how someone else hunts as long as they do it legally. I just know how I prefer to hunt and brought this subject up to see what everyone else thought. To tell the truth I don't think all the food plots in the world are going to gaurantee you a big buck, they only grow one for you to try to kill. I wouldn't waste my money on them if I had the land.
SaskGuy
Active Member
Chad, no offense taken, I don't feel like you're picking on me, we just share different views on the subject, heck religion or politics are the same way.
Like I said, I usually feed deer every winter. It's kind of how I see what bucks survived the season before the sheds fall. We're already at about 15 hrs of darkness so getting a visual on one now gets pretty tough. I've never had a daylight photo of a buck that would score more than 140 at some grain or a bale I've set out so I will disagree that you can place a bait anywhere you please to get a mature deer. Maybe a young buck or a doe yes, but you said yourself the same thing happens on your standing bean or corn plot. While it may seem lazy to bait for any type of harvest I do post the ?..what about those places where a food plot is not an option? Those places do indeed exist.
I think it's great that you've improved your grandpas property with plantings and it is indeed nice that it makes you feel like you're helping the herd health but let's face it, it isn't needed. I did my research, Illinois gets on avg. 15 days (daytime tems) a yr with temps below 0 degrees F. We can expect 60-90 of those days.
Let's face it..you're working with 160 acres. Alot that happens will be out of your control. However when we start talking about 1000's of acres and multiple foodplots left "unharvested" it changes the spectrum of things. That is indeed where I consider things to be "farming for wildlfe" and I could really care less about the deer taken under such circumstances, very much like I am not too overly excited when someone from Saskatchewan shows me a pic of some deer they shot over a baitpile that they have had a camera hanging on for the past 5 years in the exact same location. Neither are my style or cup of tea, that's all. Neither of them in their respective locations are liable to become "illegal". However planting a food plot here is perfectly legal if possible. You've got a better chance of something happening that you don't like than I do,..the legalization of bait anywhere is more probable than the outlawing of foodplots.
I may put the my theory to a test next year. My good friend owns about 700 acres, 250 or so of alfalfa, 450 of "jungle"..literally. Hunting the perimeter is about the only way. He has lots of deer and good bucks, nighttime scrape pics say so. He's thinking of spraying off a 3 acre piece of hayland that is mostly grass, working it and planting some winter wheat, field peas and brassicas. Personally, I think it'll increase his chance at a good buck harvest more so than the chop pile he has had out for a few weeks and has had not one single daytime photo on.
My feelings aren't personal towards anyone, just trend in the hunting world that I don't think is better for us as hunters in the longrun.
Like I said, I usually feed deer every winter. It's kind of how I see what bucks survived the season before the sheds fall. We're already at about 15 hrs of darkness so getting a visual on one now gets pretty tough. I've never had a daylight photo of a buck that would score more than 140 at some grain or a bale I've set out so I will disagree that you can place a bait anywhere you please to get a mature deer. Maybe a young buck or a doe yes, but you said yourself the same thing happens on your standing bean or corn plot. While it may seem lazy to bait for any type of harvest I do post the ?..what about those places where a food plot is not an option? Those places do indeed exist.
I think it's great that you've improved your grandpas property with plantings and it is indeed nice that it makes you feel like you're helping the herd health but let's face it, it isn't needed. I did my research, Illinois gets on avg. 15 days (daytime tems) a yr with temps below 0 degrees F. We can expect 60-90 of those days.
Let's face it..you're working with 160 acres. Alot that happens will be out of your control. However when we start talking about 1000's of acres and multiple foodplots left "unharvested" it changes the spectrum of things. That is indeed where I consider things to be "farming for wildlfe" and I could really care less about the deer taken under such circumstances, very much like I am not too overly excited when someone from Saskatchewan shows me a pic of some deer they shot over a baitpile that they have had a camera hanging on for the past 5 years in the exact same location. Neither are my style or cup of tea, that's all. Neither of them in their respective locations are liable to become "illegal". However planting a food plot here is perfectly legal if possible. You've got a better chance of something happening that you don't like than I do,..the legalization of bait anywhere is more probable than the outlawing of foodplots.
I may put the my theory to a test next year. My good friend owns about 700 acres, 250 or so of alfalfa, 450 of "jungle"..literally. Hunting the perimeter is about the only way. He has lots of deer and good bucks, nighttime scrape pics say so. He's thinking of spraying off a 3 acre piece of hayland that is mostly grass, working it and planting some winter wheat, field peas and brassicas. Personally, I think it'll increase his chance at a good buck harvest more so than the chop pile he has had out for a few weeks and has had not one single daytime photo on.
My feelings aren't personal towards anyone, just trend in the hunting world that I don't think is better for us as hunters in the longrun.
nacho2770
New Member
If the purpose of what you are doing is to attract deer, then it is baiting!!! End of story!!!
So if I have an apple tree on my property that is loaded with apples, it is ok to hunt by that by definition because it is natural?
But if I take a bag of apples out and throw them 50 yards away it is considered baiting? Even though the purpose of planting the apple tree was to attract and kill deer, it is still considered to be more moral and ethical then throwing out a bag of apples. Why is that?
Some people don't have big money or the equipment to plant food plots, so looking down on them for throwing out a bushel of corn is ridiculous in my opinion.
Lee Lakosky has money, sponsers and great equipment to plant his many food plots. If I had all that, your dang right I would do the same, but the average hunter doesn't have that. So some decide to bait instead....I don't, but I don't look down on it.
So if I have an apple tree on my property that is loaded with apples, it is ok to hunt by that by definition because it is natural?
But if I take a bag of apples out and throw them 50 yards away it is considered baiting? Even though the purpose of planting the apple tree was to attract and kill deer, it is still considered to be more moral and ethical then throwing out a bag of apples. Why is that?
Some people don't have big money or the equipment to plant food plots, so looking down on them for throwing out a bushel of corn is ridiculous in my opinion.
Lee Lakosky has money, sponsers and great equipment to plant his many food plots. If I had all that, your dang right I would do the same, but the average hunter doesn't have that. So some decide to bait instead....I don't, but I don't look down on it.