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Poor soil, where to start?

KSQ2

KSQ2

PMA Member
My wife and I have put in an offer on an acreage to build and home on eventually and have a place close to home to hunt. The land has very poor soil, but a lot of potential b/c of available cover. With the poor soil (part of reason we're hoping we can afford the place), where do we start when it comes to food plotting? There are already a three or four areas that can be cleared w/o too much trouble. The largest area (as well as the easiest to get to) will come to about 3 acres, with the small areas about an acre in size. One thing about the place is there is no agriculture for at least two miles (blessing and a curse) so I 'magine it'll get hit pretty hard once the deer find the food sources. With the higher and higher costs of fertilizer, what crops will be the most effective at building the soil and the the most economically reasonable to plant? And yes, one of the first things we'll do is test the soil and begin getting the ph where it needs to be. Ag lime is pretty easy to come by here. I scanned through doubletree's link to sustainable farming in the fertilizer thread, but I wanted some more practical advice. We're located in SE Kansas where we average around 36-38" of average rain fall. Thanks.
 
I just visited with my father-in-law about the soil a couple days ago. He said we wouldn't know for sure until we tested the soil one day, he also said the soil could vary some on the 80 acres, but it looked like to him the ph would be too high. He said the soil had a lot of alkaline clay. He's speaking in farming terms that I don't understand all that well, but in his opinion he thought we'd have to add gypsum to the soil in areas to get it to grow well. He also said that could be a little tough to get ahold of around here (hoping he's wrong on this and I can correct the ph with lime, but he's usuall right :(). Right now the main area we would like to clear and plant one day is full of fescue, patches of brohm, lots of blackberry briars, and cedars.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSQ2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just visited with my father-in-law about the soil a couple days ago. He said we wouldn't know for sure until we tested the soil one day, he also said the soil could vary some on the 80 acres, but it looked like to him the ph would be too high. He said the soil had a lot of alkaline clay. He's speaking in farming terms that I don't understand all that well, but in his opinion he thought we'd have to add gypsum to the soil in areas to get it to grow well. He also said that could be a little tough to get ahold of around here. Right now the main area we would like to clear and plant one day is full of fescue, patches of brohm, lots of blackberry briars, and cedars. </div></div>

Sounds to me like you're describing a great bedding area?
 
Unfortunately, and fortunately too I guess, the entire place could be described as a great bedding area!
 
Sorry Critrgtr, took me a while to get the sarcasm, bloodsugar must be low. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

Ground ready-made for plotting (agriculture) is just too far out of our financial reach, this is the type of ground we're going to have to deal with. On the plus side, it really has some pretty spots -- big sycamores and pecans, and a couple good-looking creeks.
 
Sounds to me like you are describing 5-6 total acres you are trying to TRANSFORM. In my opinion, I would leave and work around as much of the thick nasty stuff as you could and just plant the brome and fescue to plots. BASICALLY, you could throw a lot of money per acre to get the ground good and it wouldn't cost much because you're talking about 5-6 acres. If you said you had to transform 100-200 acres, that's where it's scary expensive. I'd say you're in a great position, you could fertilize and lime the heck out of it for a reasonable amount OR build up the soil with stuff like Buckwheat, rye, etc and till it up, takes a couple years. Good luck and I am sure the masterminds will have some great ideas for you that are on here.
 
Thanks sligh, we're pretty excited about the prospects. I've probably painted too gloomy of a picture, other than the poor soil quality, the open areas I mentioned really aren't that bad, if the soil was good, several places could be worked up and planted within a week, I like the idea of leaving some big cedars to hunt out of, as well as some grasses in places to combat runoff. If we're able to buy the place, I'll post some pics and get as many opinions as I can. That would probably be the better time to start asking about crops for soil improvement.
 
I know all about poor clay soil...built my house on an ole "clay knob" where you can't hardly "raise a ruckus" let alone a crop. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

Nothing you can't overcome though, it just takes time and money...or in my case lots and lots of time... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

You can get soil maps and info from you NRCS office and when you purchase the property take some soil tests. Then we can determine where you need to go from there.

Most likely it does need lime and fertlizer but in the meantime you would want to be thinking about what has already been mentioned. If it's great bedding area then plan out some plots that you can access to hunt without disturbing the bedding areas.

Lay out your plot possibles on an arial map to make it eaiser.

Since you don't have to compete with crops then you can plant whatever will do well on poor soil.

White clover does well on clay with lime and fertilizer but rye and buckwheat can provide feed and build your soil at even less expense. It's always best to plan a rotation so if you have 3 acres, divide it into 3 plots (just for example) and begin a soil building, deer attracting program at the same time.

Brassicas don't do well on poor soil, they don't like dry soils and they love nitrogen so they are a poor choice to start with for example.

The best choices are the simplest and least expensive using a combination of buckwheat, rye, red clover, hairy vetch, berseem clover and austrian winter peas for instance. (not all together but over time, spring and fall)

Fertilizer is very costly but at least start with lime and then apply fertilizer as your budget will allow until you build up soil fertility. Apply a few hundred pounds on a small area each year and/or haul in manure if it's available.

Read thru the thread on Cereal Grains and Cover Crops and you'll get lots of ideas to help you build soil and attract deer at the same time.

You'll have a lot of fun turning your poor soil, ragged mess of weeds and brambles into some productive food plots over time. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
Thanks dbltree, we talked with the current owners of the property again last night and we should know within a week and half if this will be a go or not. If it works out, I can't wait to get started on the land.
Also, my father-in-law is going to a seminar at one of the local elevators about a newly developed clover their trying to sell to ranchers to enhance pasture stands 'cause of the high fertilizer prices. I'm anxious to hear what they say. I guess it's been specifically developed for the climate in our area. He said they're bringing it out of MO. We'll see what that's all about.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">a newly developed clover their trying to sell to ranchers to enhance pasture stands 'cause of the high fertilizer prices. I'm anxious to hear what they say </div></div>

Keep us posted...sounds interesting! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
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