Hey Old Buck, Rackaddict and Muddy, thanks for your advice on getting into a thicker or less visable spot to do some rattling in, tried it last night in the creek bottoms below the house and got a 8 point in under ten yards of the tree. just a little cutie so didn't shot him, but nice to get him in that close and build up a little confidence, thanks for the help and once i get the big one rattled in and shot i will show you a pic.