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Savage smokeless powder muzzleloader

rutnstrut

rutnstrut

PMA Member
Does anyone have one or has anyone shot one. Just curious if it is legal to use in iowa and if so how they shoot. Thinking about getting one but curious how they perform compared to regular blackpowder. Any help would be appreciated.
 
Ok heres what I already know. They cost between $450.00-600.00. They are .50cal and they can shoot smokeless powder, black powder, or pyrodex. They are supposed to be capable of shooting 2300fps and 1" groups at 100yds. just curious if they really do. Do they heat up quickly, like when sighting in? I have heard that once a muzzleloader heats up they are inconsistant because the sabot allows a lot of blow-by. Are they legal with the smokeless powder for Iowa? And any other info any one has would be great. Thanks.
 
Rutnstrut
I borrowed a savage from one of the guys I work with for this years first shotgun season. I didn't have a scope on it so I put one on it and I loved it. I shot a buck at 130 yards on the dead run with it. I was shooting smokeless powder out of it, not sure what kind but I could find out. Anyway I have shot a few other muzzleloaders but am particually fond of this one it was almost like shooting my .223 hardly any kick and no smoke. Needless to say I am going to buy a Savage this summer one with a stainless steel barrell an Camoflauge. I am just debating what kind of scope to put on it. As for sighting it in I shot four shots at a hundred and was on the money. Then I shot two more in the top of a pop can at 100 yds, as for it getting warm I would say it really didn't in those few rounds but it was also the first of December "not very warm out". Hope this was of some help I know I will be owning my own this summer!!
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I don't know if they are legal in Iowa, but this guy loves them, and yes they shoot.
http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/Index~ns4.html

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From last years .pdf Iowa DNR Deer and Turkey regulations:Flintlock or percussion cap muzzleloading rifles or muskets between .44 and .75 caliber, shooting single projectiles. There are no restrictions on in-line or disk-type muzzleloaders.

I have seen reports of 2,700+ fps using a smokeless powder called Lil' Gun and a saboted .452 Hornady 250 grain bullet, though this is not a "Savage recommended load".

Will this wording change? I doubt it. It still comes down to a one shot weapon, and for those who get bent out of shape about the velocity or accuracy, what about the Knight rifles? They are printing some pretty good paper. Also, Knight happens to be an Iowa business, and it's only a matter of time before they offer a smokeless powder version? Notice that there was nothing in the wording about black powder or it's replacements.

Technology changes. I don't know of too many people out there throwing spears, digging pit traps, or constructing dead falls. The Savage ML10 has stirred up a fair amount of controversy, and I imagine there will be much heated debate.
 
I didn't mean to start a hassle or get political. I know there are states with limitations on ML's, such as "All Lead" bullets, "No Sabots" and even some that specify Black Powder or Black Powder substitutes. Without digging out the Reg's I really don't know what is legal in Iowa. I do know that Toby Bridges was instrumental in putting the inventor and patent holder of the Smokeless capabilities together with Savage. They pitched it to several gun makers, and Savage was the only taker. I also know Toby doesn't pull any punches when it comes to recommending Hi Performance ML stuff. If he tells you it is good, you can take it to the bank. If he has reservations, he'll tell you that. His web site is probably the best and most honest sight out there on the subject. If you have questions, contact him through the site. He'll share everything he can.
Personally, I feel the performance difference between Smokeless and Substitutes isn't all that great, but the other things about it, make it attractive. Such as easy cleaning..
Because Savage has the patent pretty well tied up, I think it will be a while before Knight or any others will be offering it. I wish Savage would license others as I think it would speed the acceptance of the principle.
 
I have not seen anyone shoot this gun first hand but have seen it on display before and looks like a nice gun. I don't really see Tony Knight making a smokeless powder gun any time soon since he has been taking a strong stance on not tempering with smokeless powder in any muzzleloader when I have asked for his opinion on the new gun. He feels that there is too much of a variable when measuring and customers being inconsistent with their measuring could be quite a safety liability he said. After that being said, I wouldn't be shocked if times changed and other companies followed suit and Tony might reconsider his thoughts and try to maufacture a smokeless powder version to keep up with the race......who knows. I personally have shot only Knights and love them all. The only thing I would change about my Knight DISC would be to make it burn clean so it doesnt require the cleaning that all smokepoles do so that is a powder question. I'm not sure what to think about the smokeless powder idea. If its safe then no problem for me but a much cleaner burning powder is what I hope to see more and more. There are a lot of great guns out there and someday I hope to see the Savage in action so I can judge for myself. Good luck and let us know what you find.
 
I think its legal to shoot during the muzzleloading seasons in Iowa. I dont see them putting a limit on this one since it still is a muzzleloader with one shot at a time capabilities.
 
depends on who you ask if it's any good or not. everyone has thier own opinion. i'd say if you liked the one you already shot...........go buy one. you have to get what you feel comfortable with. I agree with smokingarrow that they can be very finicky on powder loads and you have to be very careful not to overcharge it.
 
Okay, I bought a Savage ML10 II awhile back. I put a Nikon 2X7 Monarch scope on it. I opted for the camo stock and the blued barrel. I had it in time for spring turkey season (NO, I didn't use it to hunt turkey!). I camped during turkey season with a friend that I don't see that often, so I took it along. I barely had time to bore sight the gun before leaving to camp. We took out a turkey decoy box and used it as a target. I bought some IMR 4227 powder to use. Really wanted the Vihvoutori (sp) N110, but it only comes in 2 lb cans and I was feeling a little poor after buying the rig
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My first shot was a little low, so I dialed up the scope. Still a tad low. With the next adjustment, I was on the box. My friend took a shot and hit the turkey picture on the box through the heart. We stepped off the distance to the target and it was about 130 yards. My friend was so impressed he ordered himself one. If nothing else, one can always shoot black powder in it. I was using the dippers that come in the accessory kit. I brought them to work to check to see how many grains of powder I was getting. I found the weight to be all over the place. I weighed up a bunch of charges, but haven't gotten back out to finish sighting in the gun. Now the weather is getting too warm and this causes the sabots to allow blow by. The day we were shooting it was unseasonably hot and the barrel did warm up. I will sight it in when the weather gets cold, waiting for the barrel to cool between shots (simulate actual hunting conditions, as one most likely will take shots with a cold barrel). I was shooting the MMP sabot with a Hornady .452 XTP. We stacked a bunch of oak firewood behind the box and dug a few nicely mushroomed slugs out of them. Looks to be a nice outfit. I have a black powder .50 cal Hastings Paradox barrel that fits my Remington 870. It shoots maxi's pretty good, but didn't like the saboted .45s. Main reason for the change was the MESS OF CLEANING black powder. I hear that 777 black powder replacement is better than bp and pyrodex, but I never tried it. All of my experience is with loose pyrodex (until now
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), never shot the pelleted form.
 
I like the 777 but it does leave a ring, just above the sabot, and makes loading second and third shots harder.
I haven't found that to be a big problem as far as hunting goes, but certainly doesn't do the group size any good.
Hornady's new sabot takes the heat a bit better than the old MMP plus MMP has come up with a base wad to help with blowing out the sabots on a hot afternoon. Both work pretty well. If you don't like the tail on the Hornady, for smokeless or loose powder you can trim it off. Maybe they will come out with a standard wad with all of the features of the LNL without the tail.
If you like their XTP you really need to try their SST, either 250 gr or 300. You'll be shootin em in the eye at 200 plus.
 
THANKS (shout mode on). The reason I was curious was that I had removed the breech plug of my Hastings bp barrel and drove out a few maxis instead of firing them. The front of them were always deformed slightly. It doesn't make sense to buy an aerodynamic bullet only to deform it when you seat it. Also, I have read that IMR 4227 loads should have the bullet seated at 30-40 lbs for best ignition. Being a brute, I would guess I overdue it. Definitely will buy the ramrod end on the link provided.
Thanks!
 
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