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Taking advantage of clover

Fishbonker

Fishbonker

Life Member
I will be planting something different in an existing clover plot this fall or next spring. In order to take advantage of the nitrogen on the clover roots do I need to turn the dirt over or is the nitrogen close enough to the surface to aid in starting the seeds?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
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The ‘Bonker
 
Turn it over or you will lose most of the nitrogen when the clover is sprayed if you go that route. They need tilled under to keep the vast majority of the nitrogen in the soil.
 
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letemgrow said:
Turn it over or you will lose it most of the nitrogen when the clover is sprayed if you go that route. They need tilled under to keep the vast majority of the nitrogen in the soil.
Click to expand...

Damn you're quick and damn thats not the answer I wanted.

Maybe Bronc can come run my plow for me again. No wait, I haven't fixed it yet from the last time he plowed for me. Damn.

Thanks for the reply.

The 'Bonker
 
You will still get some of the nitrogen from the roots if you are going to spray the clover so it won't be a total loss. You can also till them up instead of having to break out the plow. DT has a ton of info on that in his clover thread.
 
I sent Paul a message since I looked through all 46 pages and could not find the info on plowing down clover so hopefully he chimes in here with the perctages you can look to get. A shot out of a cannon, I was thinking 20% retention of nitrogen just killing the clover by spraying.
 
Most of the info I have on this subject is in the cereal grain thread and brassica thread and it is confusing.

Normally I would echo letemgrows comments however here are some thoughts I will share after reading more information.

1) 60-90% of the N is contained in the leaves and plant portion of the legume (depending on the legume)

It has been my understanding that as the leaves dry after being killed that most of the N evaporates as it turns to a gaseous state. However it is a bit more complicated then that as the N is mineralized as nitrates (which make it usuable by other plants)

2) Corn yields where corn was no-tilled into killed alfalfa were the same as corn planted in plowed down alfalfa

Is that because the N in the roots was enough??

I'm going to post this info in the cereal grain thread as well but here are more thoughts to ponder along with some good links:

Legume Cover crops
<O:p</O:p
The portion of green-manure nitrogen provided to a<O:p></O:p>
following crop is usually about 50-60% of the total<O:p></O:p>
amount contained in the legume.

Approximately 40% of the plant tissue nitrogen becomes available the first year following a chemically burned, no-till legume mulch.

Approximately 60% of the tissue nitrogen is released when the cover crop is incorporated as a green manure rather than left on the surface as a mulch.
<O:p></O:p>
Lesser amounts are available the next two growing seasons,<O:p></O:p>
but increased yields are apparent.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Nitrogen from cover crops<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
<TABLE style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt solid; WIDTH: 67%; BACKGROUND: #eeeeee; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #cccccc 1pt solid; mso-cellspacing: 0in; mso-border-alt: solid #CCCCCC .75pt; mso-yfti-tbllook: 1184; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 0in" class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="67%"><TBODY><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 0; mso-yfti-firstrow: yes"><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; PADDING-LEFT: 3.75pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #cccccc 1pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 3.75pt; mso-border-alt: solid #CCCCCC .75pt" colSpan=3>Table 2. Percent nitrogen in legume tops and roots. (6) <O:p></O:p>

</TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 1"><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; PADDING-LEFT: 3.75pt; WIDTH: 33%; PADDING-RIGHT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #cccccc 1pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 3.75pt; mso-border-alt: solid #CCCCCC .75pt" width="33%">Crop<O:p></O:p>
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Tops<O:p></O:p>

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Roots<O:p></O:p>​


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%N<O:p></O:p>​


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</TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 5"><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; PADDING-LEFT: 3.75pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #cccccc 1pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 3.75pt; mso-border-alt: solid #CCCCCC .75pt">Cowpeas<O:p></O:p>
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</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Managing Cover crops profitably
<O:p></O:p>
A common misunderstanding about using green<O:p></O:p>
manure crops is that the N is used more efficiently<O:p></O:p>
because it’s from a plant source. This is not necessarily<O:p></O:p>
true. Nitrogen can be lost from a green<O:p></O:p>
manure system almost as easily as from chemical<O:p></O:p>
fertilizers,and in comparable amounts.

The reason is that the legume organic N may be converted to ammonium (NH4), then to ammonia (NH3) or nitrate (NO3) before plants can take it up. Under no-till systems where killed cover crops remainon the surface, some ammonia (NH3) gas can be lost right back into the atmosphere.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
To summarize, conventional plowing and aggressive<O:p></O:p>
disking can cause a rapid decomposition of<O:p></O:p>
green manures, which could provide too much N<O:p></O:p>
too soon in the cropping season.

No-till systems will have a reduced and more gradual release of N,<O:p></O:p>
but some of that N may be vulnerable to gaseous loss, either by ammonia volatilization or by denitrification<O:p></O:p>
Click to expand...

In short...planting into a legume is a win win regardless if it is plowed under or killed an left on the surface and either may work well but there are some differences in the amount of N retained in no-till or incorporated legumes....;)
 
Fishbonker said:
Maybe Bronc can come run my plow for me again. No wait, I haven't fixed it yet from the last time he plowed for me. Damn.

The 'Bonker
Click to expand...

Yeah, bite me! :thrwrck:

Do a dude a favor and he gripes about dead furrows and tearing up his equipment.

If I need aggravation I'll do projects under the wife's supervision.

Glad your thread is infected with internet icons. LOL

:D:D:D:D
 
Wow that chart does make it pretty complicated, but at least clover is tops for keeping more N on their roots so thats a bonus.
 
I think that I'll do a burn down so I have some erosion control and mosture retention along with the nitrogen.

And Bronc, it ain't my equipment those dead furrows are tearing up. They do make the Rhino bounce a bit though. Also I didn't want you to go through life nag free.

The 'Bonker
 
Slow down? WTF do ya mean slow down? The Rhino only knows one speed and that is wide freakin open. Just cuz you walk instead of ride at 'Bonkerville doesn't mean I have to. Pussy. Oh, by the way, next time the Rhino tries to kill me can you help me put in the food plots? There's a Coors Light in it for you. OK OK not good enough, how about a Makers or three? Muddy should be willing to help too cause you never know when one will encounter a fish emergency and I have it on good authority that he can be bought for a bottle of Templeton Rye.

The 'Bonker
 
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