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Switchgrass

I seeded my CIR switch last season and saw decent first year growth. There are some weedy areas coming fast that I would like to get a handle on. Can I use gly/atrazine again this year-if so what is my time-frame left to avoid damaging the new growth. Also is there a chance that taking this approach this year is overkill. Current soil temp here is in the low 40's.

I attended a seminar this winter where two of the speakers were Paul(Dbltree) and also John Osenbaugh of Osenbaugh Seeds. Between the two of those guys you probably have more switchgrass knowledge than about the rest of the state combined. :grin:

I asked John how late in the spring you could spray a switch stand with gly without damaging the stand and his answer was May 10th. I intend to spray mine around the 1st of May.
 
It would seem to me that if the switchgrass is pushing out new growth already, it's too late to use Roundup on it unless you want to risk killing what is growing. I sprayed last week here in MI and due to weather, don't think I am going to get a good kill (lots and lots of rain - 6 days later and the grass isn't yellowing :thrwrck:). Just the other day now I noticed that my 1-year old clumps in the field are pushing green shoots already. :(

IIRC, atratzine, though a residual does also have some impact on already growing plants correct? If so, then will simazine also work the same?
 
I have not seen any WSG growth here in IA yet but each landowner will have to monitor that situation closely because temps are way above normal.

If you are seeing green growth that is coming from known clumps then I wouldn't spray gly at this point and I wouldn not wait til may 10th this year for new seedings!

Mix atrazine with crop oil to get some post emergence kill on broadleaves and foxtail without hurting the switchgrass....;)
 
planting

well now i have 6lbs of cave in rock and 6lbs of big blue stem I was gonna make a sanctuary in the woods somewhere ,but i guess these grasses need mostly sun so this idea is out unless someone has any suggestions,
the other area i would consider planting is a low lying area which would have a fescue field to the west, some food plots to the west and north and south and a creek/woodline to the east. The areas that do not have food plots have a sandy /clay soil with brush and grasses which i would kill off i guess .their is also a atv trail we use for travel to and from stands and plots that sandwiches the foodplots and tree line
would this be wise to plant these now or should i wait to frost seed next year ?
will this seed last until then if i decide not to plant?
any suggestions would be awesome
anyone <anyone< dbltree :)
 
would this be wise to plant these now or should i wait to frost seed next year ?
will this seed last until then if i decide not to plant?

I would highly reccomend that you wait...kill the fescue this summer and early fall (mow, spray regrowth, and spray again if need be) and then frost seed next winter.

You will be far happier with the results...:way:
 
BUCK-MAN I am in somewhat of the same boat you are in. I wanted to plant cir and big blue and indian. I have a lot of open hard woods and next to no bedding cover. My woods was loged 20 years ago and is to open to hold deer. When it snows you can see 200 yds or more in any direction. I tried to do hinge cuts and tree cutting to make more or better bedding and still can see to far so deer wont stay in my woods. So this is what I will be doing this spring. I cut down all the trees and brush in a spot that is about 125 yds X 75 yds took all the wood out and will burn leafs and brush piles soon. I cut stumps off tight with the ground and will spray to kill all weeds before I dig and plant around stumps. I know that I will have to mow to keep small brush from regrowing. I will frost seed next spring to help fill in any thin spots. I hope this works for me, and I think something like this would work for you. P.S. I would just do frost seeding if I had more land, but I need bedding cover fast.
 
I did a similar project this spring with my oak savanna...
I did the best I could to clear all the junk trees out so there would be more light entering the woods... Then I planted half the woods in CIR switchgrass and half in little bluestem.

Before

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After

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These pictures just give you an idea on what the tree density is now. I dont know for sure how well the natives will do, but I will let you updated throughout the summer.
It should be interesting
 
grass

guys thanks for the info ,I will wait to frost seed and just prep the ground this year, Hopefully the seed I already have will be good to plant then for frost seeding.
 
Average temps in Illinois are about 12 degrees on average higher than last year. This has warmed the soil and stirred the NWSG out of their cold season dormancy. Although I have been checking our frostseeded switchgrass stands, I have yet to see any germination as of 4/17. Although switchgrass seed will germinate with soil temps at or above 60 degrees, 60 degrees is not the optimal temp for germination. The temp will have to be steadily at or above 60 degrees for some time before germination will take place. Our established stands showed dormancy was broken before 4/9 2010. This picture shows new growth of Cave-In-Rock as on 4/9/2010. The next picture is one week later on 4/17/2010.

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Why is your CIR so flat? did you mow it?

Yes, we mowed it.

This is it's second year. First year we had a bunch of foxtail mixed in the stand and mowed it two times, then mowed it again this spring to break up the heavy thatch layer.
 
I burnt my established switch 4/12 in southern IA. Hope this wasn't too late?

No..in fact it is a tad to early, burning won't hurt emerged switch but burning too early often defeats the purpose if you wish to thicken your stand of switchgrass.

Burning early allows the coolseasons to take over before your native grass is ready but burnign later in the spring sets back invasives and allows the natives to dominate...;)
 
AD- I frost seeded CIR last year and atrazined the heck out of it- took a long time before I saw the Switch- by june it had little sprouts here and there (looked far less for growth and much more thin/sparse than established switch that was up- established was thicker and far bigger). BUT- all of the sudden July hit and it really filled in nice and got tall. So, if you don't notice much over the next couple months, don't worry too much- it'll turn out good.

I haven't tried any Alamo or Blackwell. From everything I've read, seems CIR carries the most adantageous qualities BUT maybe there's a place for those?
 
dbltree, I know you usually recommend burning switch in late April or early May so the cool season grasses and weeds are set back right when the NWSG are ready to really start growing, but is there a time when it's too late to burn switch because it will harm the growing plants? For example, if you wait until early May this year, the new growth on establiched switch plants might be 5-6" tall and if you burn it then will it harm the switch at all or will it bounce right back? Do you try to time your switch burnings when it has an inch or two of new growth, or do you try to burn it a little earlier than that or do you like to let it get a bit taller than that before you burn??

Sligh1, I noticed the same thing with our CIR seeding last year, except it wasn't until August here that the CIR really took off. It was short and sparse looking most of the summer then it just exploded and got 5.5'+ tall and very thick in a hurry during late July and August. We had great weed control using residual herbicide too.
 
if you wait until early May this year, the new growth on establiched switch plants might be 5-6" tall and if you burn it then will it harm the switch at all or will it bounce right back?

Mine has always had some growth when I burn and it always explodes to life afterwords so I am not aware of any harm being done.

A good rule of thumb is to burn when the bluestems' spring growth reaches about an inch high

versus this:

<TABLE dir=ltr border=1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=7 width=648><TBODY><TR><TD height=31 vAlign=top>To suppress established warm-season grasses that get too dense and rank for wildlife benefit, summer or early fall burns will set back warm-season grasses
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Native grasses can be grazed or hayed but grazing or mowing them close to the ground in mid to late summer can destroy them (eventually) so burning anytime in April thru May should have little effect on the native grasses themselves...;)
 
Alpha Doe or Lickcreek, do you have any SG seedlings coming up yet?? I have some seedlings coming up that I think might be CIR SG and wanted to see what the experts out there all think. It's still hard to tell because they are only about 1/2 to 3/4 inches tall. Once they get 2 to 3 inches tall, I think I will be able to positively identify them because if you looke closely, they start to look more distinctly different from other weeds such as foxtail at that height. I will send pics to Lickcreek to post here. In one pic you will seed 4 seedlings on a plate that I think might be CIR SG. It's hard to tell in the pic, but they do have the purpleish color at the bottom of the "stalks". The seeds on the plate are some leftover CIR SG that were planted. The seeds on the seedlings look a bit bigger, but I think that might be from swelling up before germination?? In another pic you will seed a CIR SG seedling that is about 2-3" tall that was in last year's CIR SG plot. Once they reach that height, I think I can positively identify switch seedlings in the field.

The field where this years CIR SG was planted was mowed and sprayed with gly late last summer and then I broadcasted dwarf essex rape seed in for a fall/winter plot. Now I wish I had never done that. In one picture you will see there was a lot of brassica leaves and stems left after winter because we had so much standing corn and rape in our food plots this winter, and our neighbor had tons of standing corn that he could not get harvested last fall, so the deer had all kinds of food and never cleaned up this dwarf essex rape like they normally would. I wanted to frost seed the CIR but with all the "trash" left I was worried about the rape leaves not allowing the SG to sprout properly and I was also concerned about the allelopathic effects of the brassicas. After talking with several experts, I decided it would be best to till the top few inches with our 6 ft tractor tiller and use some residual herbicide to control all the sprouting weeds. After tilling I cutlipacked the ground, broadcast the seed and repacked. That was planted on March 27. I think tilling the ground causes the CIR SG to germinate earlier too because the ground is pretty much bare and heats up much faster than if it were just frost seeded into killed sod. This is also in a south facing hillside, which heats the ground faster too. Last year our CIR came up some time shortly after May 11th (which was the day we sprayed the field with gly), but with this year's extremely warmer than normal weather, I wonder if it's possible this is CIR coming up already. Last year's CIR is up 4" or so from the bases of the clumps. I was still hoping to spray this year's seeding with gly, but it looks like I won't be able to do that anymore now. Sorry, I don't have any pics of what the field looks like now.
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Here are pics that WF sent me...haven't looked at mine yet but I will in between rains and report back...

DER

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Previous year switch seedling

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What appears to be new switch seedlings but honestly I can't see them well enough to tell from this picture

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At any rate if there is any doubt...do NOT use glyphosate, use atrazine and consider the use of Paramount and 2-4D after switch has reach the 3-4 leaf stage.

Those herbicides will not control tough cool season grasses so that will have to wait until switch goes dormant this fall at which point gly or grass herbicides like clethodim can be used. Apply late fall or early spring before switch emerges.

All of this only amplifies my warnings to COMPLETELY kill any cool seasons the summer/fall BEFORE dormant seeding, because attempting to spring kill them is extremely risky and often impossible because many of them are still dormant.

I'm not referring to WF because he did fall kill...just sayin' for those who get in a big hurry...this is what can happen and then you'll have a devil of a time ever killing the fescue and brome later....:(

Please refer to the first page of this thread for more details on using the above listed herbicides and when and how to use them properly.

All about switchgrass

You can also learn more about using a combination of Roundup, OustXP and crop oil in the fall to kill the fire out of EVERYTHING and not have to be in a pickle in the spring worrying about "stuff" emerging...
 
This is one of the areas I killed last fall with an Oust XP, 41% Gly and crop oil mix last fall and dormant seeded in March.

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I'm using these areas to do several tests with different herbicides at different times to compare and give landowners more options. I sprayed two strips earlier with OustXP and simazine to check the tolerance of switch seed to Oust. Simazine is not a problem and I had the two in my sprayer for spraying tree plantings.

I sprayed the rest of the plot with 4 quarts of atrazine (per acre) on 4-27 and marked several spots and sprayed with roundup.

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The fall applied OustXP has provided great residual control this spring with very little growth

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I picked spots that has at least some growth to appy the gly

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This is foxtail emerging in the corn stubble only feet away and gives one an idea of how effective the Oust is and that plants emerging are most likely not switchgrass.

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This spot shows an area I spring sprayed 2 ounces OustXP, 2 quarts Simazine, 1 quart crop oil and 1 quart glyphosate however because it was applied early some plants were still dormant.

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This is just a "control" spot left unsprayed for comparison

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I also sprayed atrazine, gly and crop oil on a dormant seeded area that was recieved no herbicide treatment at all until now. I'll also mark and spray a test spot on May 10th and another 2 weeks later to check dates of switch germination... ;)
 
Paul, when you say 2 oz of oust, are you saying 2oz per acre or 2oz in your 3gal sprayer? I read the label and for most applications it is saying 1 - 2 oz per acre... I was just wondering if you are going stronger than that per acre or not.?
 
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