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Cereal Grains and cover crops

When is the earliest you can plant rye and oats for the fall? im going to be planting the brassicas in the next couple weeks. im guessing thats too early for rye and oats?

Here in Iowa the 3rd week in August is kind of pushing it and I prefer to plant the last week of August into the first week of September. Too much earlier and the cereals will get too mature and less palatable as they get stemmy.

Mid July through early August plant brassicas and then late August start the cereal plantings :way:
 
A friend of mine called me from a field he planted to rye/oats/peas/radish and...NOT clover and said "I see why you add clover now...this place is just a mass of weeds!" He assured me he wouldn't make that mistake again!

ALL of my rye combination plantings include clovers, often a mix of white and red because the white clover that was there when I tilled it under...came back along with the red I planted. In mid to late July much of the still standing winter rye has matured and is literally "fading away" into the lush clovers.

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Last years rye/clover plantings are this years brassicas plantings and vice versa....so I am tilling under the rye straw and clover

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and adding urea, 6-28-28 and pellet lime to the rich organic matter...chopped straw and nitrogen rich clovers...hard to find a much better soil builder!

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I tilled in the lime and fertilizer and I am ready to plant!


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No mass of weeds, no bare soils all spring and summer...instead I kept my deer fed and coming to that spot and now I am improving these poor clay soils each year as I turn under the nutrient rich rye and clover. The turnips, rape and forage radish that follow will further mine subsoil nutrients and the Groundhog radish will loosen hardpan soils as their deep tap roots decompose, leaving channels for water to freeze and thaw...pulverizing hard soils.

Note in the picture above there is still white clover in one strip and oats and berseem in the other strip...so deer are still never without a source of food. Grow something far more useful then weeds this year and add clover to your cereal planting but remember...it's far to early to plant cereals!! Wait til late August or later depending on your area.... ;)
 
I have about 5 acres of established clover plots that I have planted the last 2 falls. Can I no-till drill the rye/oat/pea/radish mix into the clover stand with any success? All of my other plots are in soybeans and will be in turnips so I don't have "room" for this mix without tilling in some of this clover or drilling into it. I am just looking for a way to get this mix on the farm but wanted to see if it would be successful without tilling in a good stand of clover. Thanks for the help...
 
I have about 5 acres of established clover plots that I have planted the last 2 falls. Can I no-till drill the rye/oat/pea/radish mix into the clover stand with any success? All of my other plots are in soybeans and will be in turnips so I don't have "room" for this mix without tilling in some of this clover or drilling into it. I am just looking for a way to get this mix on the farm but wanted to see if it would be successful without tilling in a good stand of clover. Thanks for the help...


if you mow the clover very close or set it back with a pint of glyphosate...it might work but often the clover is to dominate and over powers the other plants.

if you try it, let us know how it works out for you?
 
I one farm on which I help manage the habitat, we converted 2 old pastures into food plots and we are going on 4 years now of a brassica and winter rye/oat/pea/radish and red clover rotation thru the use of strip plots. The difference in soil tilth is amazing after turning under the rye straw and lush knee high red clover for a number of years. The hard clay subsoil that had been trampled for decades by cattle and leached dry of nutrients is now a beautiful, productive loamy soil!

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Once so hard I could barely plow or till it, it now works up like a dream and each year the crops are better then the year before!

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Regardless if you have sand or clay soils, you can improve them by turning under tons of organic matter by including clovers and/or vetches with your fall rye combination planting. In the fall it's ok to "crowd" the limits to the point of overseeding IF the right combinations are used.

Peas for instance can be sown heavily because deer will almost always rapidly graze them to the dirt, clovers and vetch will remain small during the fall but leap to life the following spring. Forage radish will mine subsoil nutrients and break up hard pan soils but won't have the competing canopy of other brassicas such as rape and turnips.

The rye and oats will usually be grazed hard and the oats will eventually freeze out leaving behind a nice killed mulch to help hold the soil and protect clover seedlings. The following spring the rye (having fed deer all winter) will help prevent tiny weed seeds from germinating and produce a beautiful root system that will release scavenged nitrogen when it decomposes.

Finally...the red clover and/or vetch will grow like wild fire in the spring, smothering weeds and fixing copious amounts of nitrogen and then add several tons of wonderful biomass to the soil when turned under, over time helping create the beautiful top soil shown in the pictures above.

This mix is what I use to attract and hold whitetails literally year around as well as build up more productive soils....

I mix the following:

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre


Plant seeds roughly 1-2" deep, and then cultipack to cover, broadcast clover and radish seed and re-cultipack

Plant fall grains no earlier then the last week of August through mid September, earlier is better when adding peas and clover

On dry sandy soils you may need to substitute the red clover with hairy vetch or mixing 10-20#'s per acre along with red clover. Crimson clover will perform better on loamy well drain soils and could also be mixed in on sandy soils but on clay soils the mix above will probably be the best bet.

In addition you'll find less weed and pest problems, lower fertilizer and herbicide bills when you incorporate the above mix into your plot rotations....;)
 
I like to follow my previous year brassica plot with oats and annual clovers in the spring and then till that under for the rye/oats/peas combo. Normally I shred the mature oats before tilling them and get some free seed...works quite well in larger plots or fields but it turns out the turkeys kinda like some "free seed" also!

They don't bother it while it's green...

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but as it matures

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it starts to become more like a tasty treat!

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and eventually they waller the whole crop to the ground and strip it clean!

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No biggie of course and the straw and berseem clover will still provide a great deal of organic matter when I till it under in late August for winter rye.

We've had a 1/4" of rain in 30 days...might get some good rains and might not...making brassicas iffy at best. My corn has been decimated by deer so it's "rye to the rescue" in my neck of the woods! Winter rye can grow on some extremely droughty soils and conditions and unlike brassicas the cereals and peas can be planted 1-2" deep so they are closer to the subsoil moisture.

If the brassicas fail...I will replant with the rye combo and plant all of last years brassica plots (now in oats and berseem clover) to rye as well. Don't put all your eggs in one basket and plant multiple crops in each centralized feeding area but when all else fails...fall back on the ever dependable rye combination mix....

I mix the following:

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre


Use lower rates on poor soils with low deer density and higher rates on soils with good fertility and high deer density. Soil test as if for clover and add P&K and lime according to test...adding nitrogen will promote lush growth of the cereals and radish plants. 100-200 #'s of urea per acre will make a huge difference! 200-400#'s of 6-24-24 (if no soil test) will get the P&K in the ballpark.

Till soil, broadcast fertilizer, lime and large seeds (rye/oats and peas) then till in seeds roughly 1-2" deep, and then cultipack to cover, broadcast clover and radish seed and re-cultipack

Plant fall grains no earlier then the last week of August through mid September (in the Midwest), earlier is better when adding peas and clover
 
Wheat is wonderful…when it’s on the neighbors place, cause I know I can easily coax them across the fence with this rye mix…

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I manage the habitat on a number of farms that total well over 1500 acres now and in almost every case there is extremely stiff competition from neighboring landowners to do their best to keep deer on their property. My challenge is to create better habitat and plant the very best most attractive and palatable forages that can trump anything they throw on the table.

Wheat is one of the easiest…not even a challenge really…to over come and each one of these bucks walked thru a very secluded, well hidden, adjacent to fantastic bedding…plot of winter wheat.

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So when people say they think wheat is their best cereal option….I just smile and say “good luck friend”…

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In some cases the property lines literally split a field in half, with each landowner hoping to keep the deer off their neighbor’s property. Screening comes first and then the best combination of year around food sources soon has them adapted to staying on our side.

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There is no magic food source, especially when it comes to cereals but when I plant this mix in centralized feeding areas, adjacent to premium bedding cover, in a plot that is well screened and secluded….I don’t have to worry which side of the fence they’ll be on.

A few folks are always going to be stuck on wheat, and I for one…am so glad they are…;)

I mix the following:

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre


Use lower rates on poor soils with low deer density and higher rates on soils with good fertility and high deer density. Soil test as if for clover and add P&K and lime according to test...adding nitrogen will promote lush growth of the cereals and radish plants. 100-200 #'s of urea per acre will make a huge difference! 200-400#'s of 6-24-24 (if no soil test) will get the P&K in the ballpark.

Till soil, broadcast fertilizer, lime and large seeds (rye/oats and peas) then till in seeds roughly 1-2" deep, and then cultipack to cover, broadcast clover and radish seed and re-cultipack

Plant fall grains no earlier then the last week of August through mid September (in the Midwest), earlier is better when adding peas and clover
 
Planting

Dbltree,

I broke down and bought a new 7 ft King Kutter rotary tiller and the OMNI 8ft cultipacker. I plan on using the cultipacker as the initial step for dead sod or old clover. Would you recommend using the rotary tiller again at a lower depth to seat the oats/rye/pea sead combination before cultipacking? My other options are a ten foot double gang disc or a 7 ft aggressive toothed drag. I would then follow this with clover/cultipack and prayers.

Thanks again
 
Would you recommend using the rotary tiller again at a lower depth to seat the oats/rye/pea sead combination before cultipacking? My other options are a ten foot double gang disc or a 7 ft aggressive toothed drag. I would then follow this with clover/cultipack and prayers.
Any of those options will work but I usually till them in with the KK tiller raised slightly up so as to just stir in the seed and I pull the packer behind as I do.

The follow with small seeds and re-pack...then I thank God for blessing me with my own land to enjoy all the planting on...so I agree with your every step...:way:
 
I count on winter rye to save the day when the chips are down and other crops have failed or been decimated by heavy grazing. More then one person has called to day "what should I do? My brassicas didn't come up, more corn has been wiped out, my beans all but gone...I need something that will attract deer this fall and winter!!"

I have endured every one of those problems more times then I care to admit and this year is no exception but winter rye along with the companion crops I plant with it at the end of August each summer have never, ever let me down! Even in good years I count on the winter rye and peas to draw deer from neighbors crops and the rye and clover improve my soils like no others so it's always a part of my habitat plan but some years...it IS my habitat plan when it comes to planting a food source where everything else has failed and hordes of hungry whitetails await...

When everything else is gone...winter rye will still keep them coming back for more

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and it won't be just the does and fawns

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If you are in a dry area just remember to disc or till in your large seeds (rye/oats and peas) to roughly 1-2" deep so they are firmly in the moisture zone. If you are blessed with plenty of moisture you may be able to just cultipack to cover the seeds only a 1/2" deep...shallow planted seeds will germinate faster (if there is sufficient soil moisture) but deeper planted seeds will fare better during dry times.

People often ask me..."Why is it ok to plant forage radish but not other brassicas like rape and turnips with fall cereals??" This picture is a great example! The Groundhog forage radish grows so much faster that even though planted in late August or early September it can achieve far greater growth then rape and turnips. The tops are so much more palatable that the radish plants are also far more attractive so I utilize the rape and turnips in my mid summer brassica plantings along with radish plants and then use only radish seed with my winter rye planting.... ;)

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Paul - would drilling in rye, or your rye combo, be a better way to plant this year due to the lack of rain v. tilling, etc? (I too am in the no rain zone.:()

How would you compare drilling v. tilling in this low rain year?
 
rain

if I plant your rye/oats/peas/ghfr mix in the 1st part of sept, what will happen if it doesnt rain? Will the seed still make it for a few weeka with no rain, or does it need to rain in a certain amount of time, this would be in Illinois where we have not had rain since june
 
Paul - would drilling in rye, or your rye combo, be a better way to plant this year due to the lack of rain v. tilling, etc? (I too am in the no rain zone.:()

How would you compare drilling v. tilling in this low rain year?

if you mean no-tilling versus tilling/planting it would be a good year for no-tillage for certain Dave. Regardless of tillage or no-till planting with a drill we want to get that seed planted 1-2" deep in these dry soils!

if I plant your rye/oats/peas/ghfr mix in the 1st part of sept, what will happen if it doesnt rain? Will the seed still make it for a few weeka with no rain, or does it need to rain in a certain amount of time, this would be in Illinois where we have not had rain since june

Sounds like SE Iowa...no rain since June 28th...

The seed should be fine for a while if the soil is dry, the worst problem is when there is just enough moisture to cause the seed to germinate but not enough to keep it alive. This is less of a problem with cereals then tiny brassica seeds and September is usually cooler so blast furnace hot weather is not so likely to kill newly germinated plants.

In 50 years of planting rye I have never ever had it fail because of dry weather but...there's a first time for everything...;)
 
August 21st, 2011

There was a time in my life when my wife and we're struggling to get back on our feet, starting over after selling our farm and moving on to a different way of life. We bought a little piece of land that was nothing but blow sand and went to work building a house. There was a small open area that hadn't been farmed in years so I borrowed a tractor and bought a couple bags of winter rye..couldn't afford fertilizer or lime so I just planted the rye and hoped for the best.

The rye came up thick and lush and did so every year I planted until we sold that home and property...never did fertilize, didn't need to and I killed several deer in that little plot every year, barely a 100 yards from our house.

My point here is that while I promote the use of soils tests and fertilizer...I know that someone is right now in the same place I was years ago, struggling to get by and create some habitat with little of nothing. Winter rye is a crop that can grow on almost any soil, almost anywhere and do so without other inputs, so if a well fertilized mix of seeds isn't in your budget...no worries...throw some rye out and get by til your budget allows you to do something different. :way:

I'm preparing to plant the rye/oat/pea/radish/clover mix in strips or blocks adjacent to brassicas and in some cases soybeans...P&K and lime all tilled in.

Note here that this field is in a soybean/corn rotation (left standing) and will have clover around the perimeter (established with the rye mix) and an every year rotation of brassicas and the rye mix. Rye will be overseeded into the standing beans as well to help meet our goal of providing year around food sources in one place. Fruit trees, oaks and chestnuts are planted around the edge as well and hinging the timber is on the agenda.

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This field will be clover/rye/brassica rotations screened with Egyptian Wheat

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more of the same here...each plot will keep deer coming year around with a percentage in white clover and the remaining areas split between the rye mix and brassicas.

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I would encourage every landowner to steer away from planting one crop in this plot and another in a different plot, plant the crops in strips within one field and use a combination of crops geared toward attracting and holding whitetails year a round. :way:
 
Well, it looks like I will have time to seed my Rye/Oats/Peas/Alice White Clover mix this weekend.... too early?

I could do it over labor day weekend too but I am on vacation the next two weekends after that so I don't want to miss my window :)
 
planting the same mix Labor Day, question- do you need to inoculate the peas (Austrian) or not bother since they are just going to get hammered early? Need to order inoculate for some clover so was just wondering if I should spend the money on the pea inoculate.
 
Well, it looks like I will have time to seed my Rye/Oats/Peas/Alice White Clover mix this weekend.... too early?

I could do it over labor day weekend too but I am on vacation the next two weekends after that so I don't want to miss my window :)

Either weekend is perfect!

planting the same mix Labor Day, question- do you need to inoculate the peas (Austrian) or not bother since they are just going to get hammered early? Need to order inoculate for some clover so was just wondering if I should spend the money on the pea inoculate.

The peas won't last long enough to really require inoculation so it's kind of a toss up, won't hurt but no biggie if you don't do it either....;)
 
What do us WI boys do with the rye and peas-is it to late or to early to plant the rye/pea/clover combo? Our season opens Sept 17th. How many weeks does it take for the rye/peas to become "prime pickns" for the deer? I think the first frost is late September but that shouldn't matter much for rye/peas.

I was itching to plant my rye/peas/clover mix tomorrow. I also want to plant some buckwheat, rape, and turnips tomorrow. I bought 2 bags of urea to help jump start the buckwheat and turnips-both in separate strips/plots.
 
I put 1.5 acres in the ground today. Rye and red clover with 50 lbs of field peas per acre. Forecast had rain but it looks like they pushed any chance back quite a few days. Subsurface moisture is still great following the rain from monday. Trying to stay positive!


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