Clover

[dbltree]

December 6th, 2011

The power of a simple easy to grow crop like white clover is amazing yet so many people forget to incorporate it into their single, centralized feeding area (where soils and climate allow) This field is surrounded by cover (perfect!!) on 3 sides and screened with Egyptian Wheat and red cedars on the 4th and is being grazed very hard.

I would prefer to see other crops added to this field so that it will hold and attract deer year around but it is interesting to note that this clover is immediately adjacent to a large alfalfa field, yet they are focusing on the clover.

New feeding areas are sometimes ignored the first year because doe groups are adapted to feeding on ag fields, re-growth in a clear cut or some such but white clover helps adapt them to feeding in your new plot. Lactating does don't travel far so if there is cover (and there should ALWAYS be outstanding cover surrounding your feeding area in the form of thick brushy timber or NWSG) surrounding the feeding area and it contains white clover, they will quickly take advantage of this high quality food source.

it doesn't take much....an 8' strip around the perimeter, odd corners of the field, waterways or simply dividing the field into strips of which 10-20% can be white clover. The rest should be a combination of brassicas, rye mix, soybeans, corn, milo etc. with a goal of year around food sources.

Planting an entire field to white clover is not the answer either because eventually they will scrape the last morsel from the frozen soil and be forced to move elsewhere and that's the LAST thing we want! Having crops like winter rye and big turnip roots to carry them thru will insure they don't become adapted to the...neighbors place.....

 

[huntdoc]

Property I have permission to hunt was just logged and left some small openings that I am planning to frost seed to clover. Besides clearing larger stuff like logs, how much should I clear the leaf litter to expose the dirt? I have enough time that I think I can do a moderate amount of prep by hand before winter is over.

 

[dbltree]

Property I have permission to hunt was just logged and left some small openings that I am planning to frost seed to clover. Besides clearing larger stuff like logs, how much should I clear the leaf litter to expose the dirt? I have enough time that I think I can do a moderate amount of prep by hand before winter is over.

The seed will work it's way down thru dead grass but not thru compacted leaves so clear the litter off and be sure to add lime and fertilizer because the soil will likely be very acidic and nutrient starved....

 

[dbltree]

December 26th, 2011

The best method of establishing white clover by far, is to plant it in late August/early September with the winter rye combination mix. No flooding rains, mud, weeds etc. to deal with and 9 times out of 10 you'll have a successful seeding that will be outstanding in the spring. Fall droughts are not as common as summer but they do happen and this year we had a bad on across much of the Midwest and lower plains states and because of flooding spring rains it seemed it was one of those "danged if I do and danged if I don't" scenarios.

Some of our fall seeded white clover received enough rain to germinate and put down roots while other fields germinated and then died from lack of sufficient rainfall. All is not lost however because we can easily frost seed some some additional clover seed (white, red or alsike) and end up with a great clover seeding in the spring. Frost seeding into the winter rye means you will still encounter less weed problems and not have to deal with mud and rains on you weekend off. Simply clip the rye off in late spring or spray it with clethodim anytime up to a foot high or so.

The rye combination mix that received decent rain is going to have a great clover stand in the spring....

If your clovers didn't make it, frost seed at 6-8#'s of white clover or 12-15#'s of red (or some combination of both)

My goal is to have a 30-50' strip all the way around each feeding area (one per 80-120 acres) so it is easy to broadcast seed by hand or with an ATV spreader around the perimeter.

Remember that white clover is an essential part of our goal of adapting deer to coming to one place year around but because white clover is very productive we only need 10-20% of the feeding area in white clover. This pic shows the rye/oats/peas and clover mix

The reason I add oats rather then all rye is because the oats will freeze out in late December leaving the winter hardy cereal rye to feed deer all winter and then provide weed control thanks to the allelopathic chemicals in the root systems. The rye/oats/peas/radish/clover mix provides outstanding grazing literally all fall, winter, spring and summer

Drought resistant clovers like Alice and Durana along with Kopu II and Jumbo Ladino are all great white clovers to consider and a fraction of the price of "buck on a bag" clover seed that will often not survive severe droughts.

Check with your local seed supplier/co-op but if you cannot find it in your area Welter Seed and Des Moines Forage and Turf sell clover seed by the pound and will ship to your door.

Clover seed source

Clover is very important but it can't meet our goals of year around feed by itself...the following is a combination of crops that can...

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring.

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

The "Getting Started" thread has many aerial pictures/examples of planting all the crops within one field with recent posts on page two.

Getting Started

Planning your habitat program out will help avoid later regrets and that thread will help get you on the right track....

 

[crs740]

Do you fertilze the white clover the following spring after you plant it in the fall? What setting do you set your bag seeder to when spreading clover seed? I screwed up this year by having to big of an opening.

 

[Crimson Arrows]

I am in the same boat. Have a few fields that were planted this spring and some this fall. Will be frost seeding but 1-2 fields grew poorly. Can we spread fertilizer over the established clover now, after frost seeding etc? I also assume no N is needed as it fixes this element?

 

[Scott]

Wont you get better germination if you start over as opposed to frost seeding? I have an area that got nuked during the drought and I am wondering if it would be better to start over. Seems like the soil has gotten very hard and tilling it up again would make for a better seed bed.

 

[Crimson Arrows]

Wont you get better germination if you start over as opposed to frost seeding? I have an area that got nuked during the drought and I am wondering if it would be better to start over. Seems like the soil has gotten very hard and tilling it up again would make for a better seed bed.

It may, but then you risk weed growth/competition by tilling/planting this spring and few things in my experience, limited as it is, has worked as well as frost seeding clover, even over a poor fall planting

Hopefully Dbtree chimes in:way:

 

[Daver]

Wont you get better germination if you start over as opposed to frost seeding? I have an area that got nuked during the drought and I am wondering if it would be better to start over. Seems like the soil has gotten very hard and tilling it up again would make for a better seed bed.

Although I am still learning this food plot game and do NOT consider myself an expert like Dbltree, but one thing that I think is a virtual guarantee...if you till a field you are going to get a full onslaught of weed growth, especially if you do this in the spring or early summer.

Of course you can then mow, spray, etc, the weeds to control them, but I think you are better off to frost seed later this winter if your ground is bare now. Whatever weeds you still may see would then be much more easily controlled by mowing or spraying.

I also would not worry about soil hardness now as you only want the tiny clover seed in the top 1/4" of the soil anyway, which is exactly where frost seeding will leave it.

 

[Sligh1]

Nice thing about clover- its gonna b one of the 1st things to green up so u should l know really early if it's in good shape. I'd frost seed. If its crap once things green up- plan b. but frost seeding is cheap and will help along previously planted clover. Hardy stuff- u may b surprised how much made it.
No N needed. U r good to put p&k right on it.

 

[Crimson Arrows]

p&k right on it.

What amount per acre Skip and what % ?

Also,do you just put in a spreader and let her rip? Will winter work or wait until spring?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Sligh1]

U can put on any time really. Ya- just toss in spreader. I usually fertilize mine in April but suppose any time would be ok. Correct answer on how much is to soil test. Pry need pell-lime too. Good to get printout. But- if u r gonna Wing it and take lazy man route- 200-300 lbs of p&k of a higher # but if its like a low # u'll need more. Like let's say it was 0-13-13 u obviously would need a lot more- like 500 lbs. I always get high # stuff. Again- correct answer is soil test. I'll b honest- clover is the 1 thing I occasionally get lazy with because it's so robust but I plan on getting out this yr and getting soil samples and reports an adding correct p&k and lime. Which any agronomist can tell u in 2 seconds exactly what's needed once u have report.

 

[Crimson Arrows]

Thanks Skip. Yeah, I agree, will soil test, and then know for sure.

 

[dbltree]

Do you fertilize the white clover the following spring after you plant it in the fall? What setting do you set your bag seeder to when spreading clover seed? I screwed up this year by having to big of an opening.

I fertilize in the fall when I seed but if you did not do it then, as Skip mentioned...put it on anytime winter or spring along with lime.

When sowing any small seeds with a bag seeder, I put a few seeds in the seeder, then open the gate just enough so the seeds can just pass thru. Set the adjustment set screw and seed. Clover can be overseeded without hurting anything other then wasting seed and running out before your finished.

Wont you get better germination if you start over as opposed to frost seeding? I have an area that got nuked during the drought and I am wondering if it would be better to start over. Seems like the soil has gotten very hard and tilling it up again would make for a better seed bed.

if you look at my previous post Fred, I am going to be frost seeding a lot of mine for the same reasons and "hard soil" is not a factor at all and in fact on the surface there is no such thing. Freezing and thawing will help the tiny clover seeds make soil contact and along with late winter rains and melting snows will soften the soil surface. Frost seeding works very well, although I usually add 10-20% more seed.

Skip already covered most questions here very well but for those of you in the SE Iowa area I would just add that Aaron Palm from Iowa Missouri Hybrids in Keosauqua carries bagged 6-28-28 and pel lime along with KopuII white clover seed, less expensive ladino white clover and red clover seed. It's not always easy to find bagged fertilizers so if you can't find it close to home give Aaron a call.

Eyad...your soil is pretty poor from abuse and very low soil organic matter so as Skip mentions do a soil test (for alfalfa) but on that soil I suspect you will need 400#'s of 6-28-28 and 400-500 #'s of pel lime.

Request soil sample sheets from ISU soils lab along with soil sample bags.

ISU Soil Lab

Remember to take multiple samples across the field as per these recommendations.

Take a Good Soil Sample (excerpts from Pm-287, Take a Good Soil Sample)

Select sampling areas within a field. Ideally, samples should represent a uniformsoil area of 10 acres or less. Although high fertilizer and/or manure rates may mask initialsoil fertility differences that are due to soil type, organic matter levels are closely related to the soil mapping units. Base the selection of each sampling area on a recent soil surveymap that is made up of mapping units. Individual sampling areas should be distinguished
by soil type, slope phase, and erosion phase.

1. Basic sampling rules. Avoid, or sample separately, all odd or dissimilarly treated areas not representative of the uniform soil area. As a general rule, soils of distinctly different colors should not be mixed.
2. Collecting a representative sample. Take 15 to 20 separate cores, borings, or trowel slices at random in a zigzag pattern from the sampling area. Take 20 or 30 more cores if the area is variable and location of fertilizer bands is unknown. More cores will lessen the
effect of one core taken from a fertilizer band. Take equal size cores, bores, or trowel slices to an equal depth. If the field is usually plowed, take samples to plow depth. If the field is not plowed, sample to a 6-inch depth.

3. No-till and conservation tillage. Continuous use of broadcast fertilizers can rapidly reduce the surface soil pH of no-till and conservation tillage fields. Some herbicides may be de-activated resulting in reduced effectiveness and poor chemical weed control.
Standard soil sampling procedures do not accurately show the pH of the soil surface. In samples taken to 6 to 8 inches, the acidity of the surface few inches is diluted by the usually higher pH of the subsoil. In order to assess surface pH it is necessary to take a
separate 0-2 inch sample form the sampling area. Phosphorus and potassium should be determined in a separate 0-7 inch sample. Chisel plowed or disked fields should be treated as no-till fields because neither implement effectively incorporates surface-applied
fertilizers to the tillage depth. For ridge tillage systems, samples should be taken from the
shoulder of the ridge or approximately one-half the distance between the row and the center of the rows. Where fertilizer materials are injected 6-8 inches deep, whether it is
nitrogen only or phosphorus and potassium, it is suggested that individual probes for the samples be taken randomly among the crop rows.

Keep good records. Perhaps the most important information that can be obtained from soil tests is the changes in soil test results that occur over time. Good records help when evaluating the effectiveness of a fertilizer program. Ideally, sample each field once every 3-5 years or once each crop rotation. Fields should be in the same crop each time when sampled to reduce variability of the potassium test results. Once you have obtained a comprehensive soil fertility map of each field, you can sample a representative portion of each field and problem areas every 3-5 years as a
check on the fertilizer program.

You'll need to know the soil type so use the Wed Soil Survey to determine that and I have links to that and a host of other planning information in the Getting Started thread

Getting Started

The second page of that thread has some great layout information that I encourage all of you to read even if you got "started" 10 years ago....

 

[Crimson Arrows]

Eyad...your soil is pretty poor from abuse and very low soil organic matter so as Skip mentions do a soil test (for alfalfa) but on that soil I suspect you will need 400#'s of 6-28-28 and 400-500 #'s of pel lime.
/QUOTE]

Would those numbers be per acre, and if using an automatic seeder on an ATV, put on small setting when distributing the Fertilizer and Lime?

Also, its early, too early to frost seed clover?

As always Paul, thanks for the info, it is appreciated.:way:

 

[Sligh1]

When using fertilizer- you can open it wide open - putting it on thick & faster. The smaller opening is for seed only. SO- fertilizer goes on fast/heavy, clover SEED goes light on small setting.You're talking clover, say 5 lbs per acre (whatever) vs 500-1000 lbs of pell-lime & p&k per acre. I always use my hand seeder to frost seed & use my big seeder for fert & lime. Ya, 400#'s P&K & 400-500 pell-lime PER ACRE is what DT was saying.
I'd wait on frost seeding. March is when I do it but I wouldn't do it this early.

 

[Crimson Arrows]

When using fertilizer- you can open it wide open - putting it on thick & faster. The smaller opening is for seed only. SO- fertilizer goes on fast/heavy, clover SEED goes light on small setting.You're talking clover, say 5 lbs per acre (whatever) vs 500-1000 lbs of pell-lime & p&k per acre. I always use my hand seeder to frost seed & use my big seeder for fert & lime. Ya, 400#'s P&K & 400-500 pell-lime PER ACRE is what DT was saying.
I'd wait on frost seeding. March is when I do it but I wouldn't do it this early.

Thanks Skip!:way:

 

[showstopper]

I'm looking at putting some plow down clover on a property this spring. Does anyone have any experience in doing this? I was wanting to plant this spring then leave half in the clover while discing in turnips, radishes and beets for hunting plots in August. Would this get some nitrogen in the ground for the hunting plots to grow well without needing to add fertilizer? I do not plan on doing any soil testing either. Anyone who knows anything please advise.

 

[Sligh1]

I'm looking at putting some plow down clover on a property this spring. Does anyone have any experience in doing this? I was wanting to plant this spring then leave half in the clover while discing in turnips, radishes and beets for hunting plots in August. Would this get some nitrogen in the ground for the hunting plots to grow well without needing to add fertilizer? I do not plan on doing any soil testing either. Anyone who knows anything please advise.

Yep- works great. Plant Berseem and/or crimson clover and maybe some cheap red clover. If you are going to keep 1/2 of it- I'd add good whites like Alice, Ladino, etc to the part you will keep. If spring planting, I'd seed heavy and add some oats, etc. Spring plantings are a pain with weeds but do-able.

 

[dbltree]

Would this get some nitrogen in the ground for the hunting plots to grow well without needing to add fertilizer?

It will but probably not 100% of the next crops needs especially if the soil is poor and P&K levels are down. The clovers will not thrive and therefore not produce as much biomass nor fix as much N but still you are on the right track.

You can but seed where ever but Welters has a great list with good information on their wed site to help you decide.

Clover seed

I like Alta-Swede Mammoth red clover, berseem and crimson for plow downs but red clover is the one you will want to add to your fall rye planting.

I assume you have a limited budget and are hoping to use cover crops to build soils and provide nutrients for your plots. This absolutely will work but if you use no fertilizer and lime to get started the process will be slower so just keep that in mind....