Clover

[dbltree]

I am in southern Illinois and our particular location has received hardly any rain at all since may. My alice white clover is completely gone turned black and crunchy. I had the most beautiful stand this spring!!!. Is it gone for good or will it come back this fall with some rain? If not I am tilling it under and planting everything in the rye mix and brassica. My soybeans never came up either. It is going to be an interesting fall in my area. All of the corn is zero and it will be bush hogged. Lets hope for a wet fall!:way:

I can't say for certain but during last summers drought I did lose some white clover in areas...common for it to go dormant of course but in extreme droughts it can die and it doesn't sound good for yours.

 

[dbltree]

July 30th, 2012

I love white clover and I am a firm believer in making it a part of every feeding area in any area where it will grow, but...it doesn't always fare so well in severe drought conditions

On poor soils it can in fact even die if the drought is severe and long lasting so it's nice to know that red clover can survive longer and continue to produce lush forage during extremely dry weather...

Diversity is important so it's not "either or" but by planting a portion of every feeding area to white clovers and sowing red clover with my rye every fall I can have some degree of assurance that I'll keep whitetails fat and happy!

This white clover is suffering badly...

but note the the difference where the white clover was established last fall with winter rye!

The rye roots and straw hold water like a sponge and water...its the only thing that stands between life and....death to clovers this summer...

Meanwhile the red clovers grown with cereal rye are thriving despite 106 degree temps and severe drought and...deer are grazing the daylights out of it!

Unlike soybeans clovers can "take a lickin' and keep on tickin", no need for expensive and time consuming fences nor $100's of dollars spent on seed not to mention that this red clover is actually making us money....silently fixing nitrogen for the next crop underground, providing up to 2 TONS of biomass above ground all the while keeping whitetails coming back for more!

Start your clovers this fall with the winter rye combination listed below and mix them up for a little diversity to boot....

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

 

[huntdoc]

If a wooded area receives enough sunlight to support foxtail, do you think that is adequate to grow clover as well? Thank you.

 

[dbltree]

If a wooded area receives enough sunlight to support foxtail, do you think that is adequate to grow clover as well? Thank you.

probably but hard to say...foxtail seems to grow anywhere and everywhere!

 

[Qdmaer]

:way::way:


June 28th, 2012

We've been experimenting with various herbicides on a clover plot this past spring and early summer....1st spraying 6-8 ounces of 53% glyphosate, 10 ounces of clethodim and 1 quart crop oil. That mixed nuked everything but pond weeds in this low lying clover and at first I thought the sedges survived. I returned several weeks later to spray Basagran and crop oil mainly to kill the sedges only to find they had in fact been killed by the low does of gly...I went a head and sprayed to see what if any effect it would have on the pond weeds...and the result was zero!

I believe the gly burned down the water plants but they re-emerged later and appear to be the only problem weed at this point

Grasses are all dead with the exception of a few clumps of Reeds Canary grass emerging from seed

and all clovers appear healthy and unscathed by anything applied thus far

This time around I sprayed 2 quarts of 2-4DB Butyrac 200 Herbicide with NO crop oil on both the pondweeds and on some oats/berseem clover with some ragweeds in it to see how that does?

Butyrac 200 Herbicide

2-4DB is more effective on smaller weeds and all of the weeds sprayed are pretty good sized so we'll see how it works out? It's not recommended to mix clethodim and 2-4DB as it reduces the effectiveness of the clethodim so be sure to spray these two herbicides separately for best results....

6-8 ounces of gly per how many gallons of water?

 

[Sligh1]

6-8 ounces of gly per how many gallons of water?

That's PER ACRE. So how many gallons will depend on your sprayer, your ground speed, etc. You need to calibrate or rather figure out how many gallons your sprayer is applying per acre and then put in the according 6-8 oz of gly per acre.

 

[Qdmaer]

That's PER ACRE. So how many gallons will depend on your sprayer, your ground speed, etc. You need to calibrate or rather figure out how many gallons your sprayer is applying per acre and then put in the according 6-8 oz of gly per acre.

I always thought paul mixed at 20 gallons of water but wasnt sure. my sprayer puts 12 gallons per acre when i creep.:drink1:

 

[dbltree]

That's PER ACRE. So how many gallons will depend on your sprayer, your ground speed, etc. You need to calibrate or rather figure out how many gallons your sprayer is applying per acre and then put in the according 6-8 oz of gly per acre.

That is correct... PER ACRE and if dealing with tougher grasses you may need to go up to 10-12 ounces per acre along with one quart of crop oil

 

[tommyls1313]

I mowed my clover plot late April and it was looking great until around the first of August when the drought finally started taking its toll on it. I haven't been out to see it since Aug 25th when we got a good rain along with a few showers since. I'm hoping when I get back out in a weekend or two if it's revived like I think it probably has should I mow it again then, wait till early Oct, or not mow at all this fall? Let me add that while the drought did burn it good I still had a pretty good stand of clover. If I need to mow I would like for it to be timely of making it lush and tender for late Oct and early Nov of coarse.

Thanks for all your help Paul

 

[dbltree]

I'm clipping clover plots now that we have had rain and they are growing again :way:

 

[dbltree]

September 10th, 2012

The drought this past summer was so severe it caused a lot of white/ladino clover to go dormant and that allowed ragweed among others to spring to life by the end of summer!

Late August rains brought the clover out of dormancy however and we got busy clipping.

Ladino clover can get a little tall but rarely becomes unpalatable if not mowed...

still September is a great time to clip the tops off and encourage a flush of new growth.

These cam pics tell a story...dust flying and hardly any evidence this is even a clover plot!

I notilled the rye mix and more clover seed into this area not really expecting much without

rain

but several inches of rain a few days later transformed the seemingly "dead" clover and sparked immediate germination of the rye/oat/pea/radish/clover seed

and soon deer were happily grazing there once again

one area had some reasonably good clover but with some bare spots so I ran the drill thru that area as well....

Deer were keeping the clover pretty well grazed

but now new clovers are springing up along with the rye mix to help fill in the bare areas

It will be interesting to watch the older clover patch to see if the new seeding will survive or if there may be any autotoxicity issues such as those that plague alfalfa stands.

I don't care what crops you plant or what you may believe...good quality white clovers are hard to beat!

We can put cams on any and every area of clover in plots anywhere and they will record plenty of action!

In every case there are corn or soybeans adjacent to the clover..yet they wear the clover out!

That's why I make a point to have an area of white clover in every feeding area regardless of size, s trip around the perimeter, down the center or odd areas of the field will allow me to have clover along with the brassicas and rye mix. Plant white clover in a hidden strip or narrow area in the timber and mature bucks will feel comfortable feeding there in daylight hours...

No crop does more for less the a little ladino clover planted in a hidden, safe area but save your money and avoid the "buck on a bag "seed which is rarely drought resistant nor tolerant of heavy grazing. Choose white clover seed adapted to your area by doing a little research but some that have worked well for me include Alice, KopuII, Winter White, Domino, Will, Durana and even plain ole VNS ladino!

Start clovers in the fall with the rye mix and save yourself a lot of headaches in the spring and by having clover there you can help avoid having other crops wiped out and avoid "dirt plot" syndrome that sends deer searching for greener pastures...

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

 

[dbltree]

September 25th, 2012

Whitetails are still hammering the white/ladino and red clover portions of our feeding areas...the more I see how heavily deer use clovers (despite having lot's of other options) the more I love this great plant!

No matter how much or what type of other food sources are available, they keep the clovers well grazed!

Hard to find a more economical yet productive food source where a little...does a lot!

We use clover alone in hidden areas, small backwoods openings, loops, trails anywhere it can get enough sunlight but we use it most to surround the perimeter of our brassica/rye strip plots...shown here along the edge next to the rye combo portion of the feeding area.

Clover in my area of the midwest will feed deer from very early spring well into January and deer quickly adapt to coming to the clover making it an important element of the year around feeding system. Clovers are easily established with the rye combo in late summer/early fall (allow 6 weeks growing time ahead of hard freezes if possible)...they get rooted in the fall, with no weeds and rarely is wet weather a problem and take off like gangbusters in the spring!

Expensive "Buck on a Bag" clovers are not drought resistant nor can they withstand heavy grazing pressure, so while they certainly can work...I recommend far better, yet less expensive, tried and true varieties of which there are many! Alice, Durana, KopuII, Jumbo Ladino, Will and a host of others make up the clover seed possibles. I have been planting Winter White and Domino white clovers lately and they also are very good clovers.

A few will comment that "deer don't eat my clover" (or beans, brassicas, rye etc.) but almost without fail...those landowners have far bigger habitat problems that include poor cover, food sources too far from cover, unscreened feeding areas, people/dog pressure and worst of all...deer using their food sources but they don't have a clue because of lack of cameras to verify usage.

To date...I have never, not once had clover go uneaten and that friends is not on my individual farms but on dozens of farms across Iowa and Missouri for which I am personally responsible not to mention the hundreds more that landowners have sent me pictures of or that I have toured while doing a habitat consult.

Deer love clover...end of story...

and without cams...one is clueless as to what is happening in the night

Clover may not seem "sexy" but it is the workhorse in our habitat program that plugs the holes so to speak in our year around feeding system

Even a very tiny garden size patch of clover can be very effective and can be planted with hand tools by frost seeding in late winter

When the weather gets bitter and deer are putting on fat reserves they will graze the rye and brassica elements of the strip plots heavily but they will rarely enter the feeding area without taking time to forage on simple, ordinary...clover....

Note that in the following crop combination...white clover is at the very top of the list! Red clover is planted with the fall rye mix and annual clovers like berseem and crimson are planted with oats on the spring...make clovers a part of your feeding system and reap the rewards in the coming years...

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

 

[dbltree]

October 13th, 2012

The more farms I work with, the more I witness how powerful and effective clovers are as a habitat tool that will insure whitetails have a dependable food source that combined with other crops...will hold them year around. Regardless of what crops are adjacent, deer hammer the clovers daily!!

I can count on bucks visiting the clover on every farm!

Corn and soybeans are within an easy walk but they prefer to forage on the clover adjacent to safe cover and, I would add...that NONE of the clovers you will ever see in my threads are expensive, highly advertised clovers. They are good quality clovers like Alice, KopuII, Jumbo Ladino, Winter White and Domino (and there are many more such clovers I might add)

Fall is far and away the best time to establish clovers so as to avoid spring weed infestations and muddy fields...I always establish clovers with the rye/oat/pea mix in late August/early September....just try to allow roughly 6 weeks before hard freezes. A frost will not kill seedling clovers but they do need well established root systems before hard freezes to survive the winter.

Everywhere we grew winter rye last season, the tiny clovers are thriving but where rye was not planted...they are suffering during our extreme drought....rain today may save them!

I always make white clover a part of every feeding area, how much depends on the extent of grazing pressure but usually 10% of the field is in white/ladino clover. There are however almost always small hidden, very small areas where clover alone can be very effective. It may be a corner of a crop field, a small opening in the timber, a skid trail but any of these places can be effective if there is enough sunlight to keep clover growing.

This is an example of a small area on the outside (inside timber) corner of an ag field, it's hidden and there is a gateway we opened to the field. This fall we planted rye/oats/peas and a mix of red and white clovers and we get over 4000+ cam pics in 2 weeks at this spot!!

Several things of note here....freshly combined corn stubble is only a few yards away from these deer and they do go out the gate in the dark to feed on the scattered grain, but despite the corn...they are grazing the rye and oats to the dirt! The clovers of course are tiny, the last seeding I did...they are scarcely an inch high and have survived repeated hard, killing frosts and freezes in this low area.

The point is...you do not need to have clover there initially...the rye and oats will insure deer have a fall/winter food source and the clovers will take off in the spring. The green food sources in this hidden area encourages deer to come from bedding to this area in daylight hours where they stage and feed before entering the corn stubble.

I believe a recently erected tree stand will be an extremely effective place to harvest a buck during the rut this fall and other such stands on very similar rye/clover spots will also be equally effective. Repeated use by does makes it a nobrainer that bucks will visit these areas during the rut and if they are safely hidden...they will travel thru in daylight hours.

If you haven't already...make clovers a part of each one of your feeding areas and take advantage of small hidden areas or trails by establishing clovers in those areas.

Always soil test first and apply the appropriate amounts of lime and fertilizer but in a pinch, 500#'s of pel lime and 400#'s of 6-28-28 will get most clovers off and running and then follow up with soil tests to see if additional fertilizer/lime is needed.

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

 

[mshm99]

Rehab a plot

I have a quarter acre spot that has the remnants of alfalpha planted several years ago. Since it was small,I thought I'd try to save what was there and get some clover going to fill in the blank spots. I broadcast alice and jumbo ladino last fall and again March first. We sprayed with clethodim twice and the drought hit us. I really did not expect much,but the investment was small , and a learning experience. Here is the story in pictures:

Forgive the one pic out of order. I mowed the plot in September to clip off the leggy alfalpha. I'm pretty satisfied with how it came out. Thanks for the advice Paul.
Mike

 

[goatman]

Looking good.

 

[wisguy]

Any ideas between Berseem and Crimson clover for a spring plot that gets late frosts and do these clovers need to be inoculated ? Can they be mixed in a blend ? I have a great stand of Brassica there now thanks to the advice from here.

 

[dbltree]

Any ideas between Berseem and Crimson clover for a spring plot that gets late frosts and do these clovers need to be inoculated ? Can they be mixed in a blend ? I have a great stand of Brassica there now thanks to the advice from here.

I mix them both for spring plantings and both white and red clover can be mixed as well but crimson and berseem are both annual clovers generally planted for a spring/summer food source and cover crop. Neither is a great fall source of food and berseem will freeze oit quickly.

 

[dbltree]

November 24th, 2012

The clover component in our habitat programs is often underestimated or not used at all but it is one of the most important tools in providing year around food sources. Clover has many uses including clover trails, small hidden areas, places with too much pressure to allow for planting other crops but it is also essential in helping provide year around food sources...not just "somewhere" on our farm our property but within each feeding area. Clover helps provide the missing link to keeping deer fed year around which then keeps the adapted to coming to ONE place, day after day, winter, spring, fall and summer. Combined with outstanding bedding cover the combination of food sources helps us hold whitetails on our property and given their relatively small range, then helps us manage our deer both quality and quality.

I did some experimenting with no-tilling the rye mix into drought weary clover plots given the dramatic difference the rye root system has in allowing for water retention...something the shallow rooted white clovers are lacking.

Some much needed fall rains allowed the clovers to recover somewhat but deer keep them grazed down despite plentiful food sources including corn stubble

I used both white and red clover seed with the rye mix

so it will be interesting to see the results next spring compared to unseeded areas with no rye

This field is 80% rye mix and brassicas except for this corner and one opposite and whitetails spend an inordinate amount of time in the clover!

They feed on both the clovers and the rye mix

both does and bucks

It is only in late winter that deer stop feeding on the clover and only when they have scratched and dug thru the snow for every last morsel

It is for that reason I encourage you to plant drought resistant, grazing tolerant, winter hardy clovers adapted to your area. Many highly advertised clovers are none of the above and though you pay a premium for the seed it comes up short in almost all areas. Do a little research and find the clovers that might do best in your area and see how they perform...not just in June but January, not just when rain is plentiful but during extreme, hot dry weather. Whitetails aren't a bit fussy (although we are often led to believe it) so in many cases simple and inexpensive VNS seed will suffice perfectly well.

Make sure white/ladino clover (if it can be grown in your area) is a part of your year around feeding areas and then experiment with the varieties that will perform best on your soils, weather conditions and grazing pressure....

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28

 

[Blizzard_T_Husky]

I see that Welters will have 5% off all orders in December. Have you found any germination problems when ordering seeds this early for next years plantings?

 

[dbltree]

I see that Welters will have 5% off all orders in December. Have you found any germination problems when ordering seeds this early for next years plantings?

No...all seeds for next year were grown this past year anyway so go ahead and take advantage of their sale.