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Changing the way we think!

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pamarcole

pamarcole
I'm starting to find myself getting upset with the people that are unable to see that we are destroying the sport we love. We can no longer think it's cool or be proud of ourselves for saying "I shot a big doe"! I know I cant make a blanket statement because I know there are areas that still hold plenty of deer but for me (and I know there are more and more of us that are seeing this) I hunted the bow season this year for the 30th year. I saw about the same amount of does this year as I use to see in a week, about 6-10 .....that's all fall! Then I hear Joe blow down the road say "Yeah ....I saw a doe and a couple of young ones and I killed the BIG doe"! Why?????Given the choice I kill a young one! There is much less damage done to the overall population by shooting a young one! I believe that by killing a mature doe you have potentially killed 5 deer! Her two young ones are young a dumb ....able to survive but just not smart enough a lot of times. And then the two she would have had next spring .....that's 5 or at least 3 that wont be in your woods next year! You shoot a young one you have only one deer gone and a little less meat in the freezer!
We wouldn't be proud of ourselves to shoot hen pheasants or go fishing and take walleye that are not legal. It's the same thing folks. There was a time when the population has high it was a great idea to shoot all the does we wanted .......those days are gone in a lot of places! The game that we put the greatest value on we try protect the breeders ...pheasants and walleyes for instance! Let be honest..... the only differents between them (deer) and pheasants or walleyes are the peasants and walleyes don't wreck cars. So until be see no more deer car collisions I don't see the doe tags going away. Look to see the population to continue to drop. Look to see people giving up the sport because its just not fun any more. We as group have to get smarter and realize just because we can have a pocket full of doe tags doesn't mean we should kill all of the does. Leave the does for the kids, the beginners, the old or the hungry. Lets "change the way we think" and protect our future because to be honest if we the hunters don't I'm not sure anyone else will!
 
Because its truth and more and more people are starting to see what shooting every doe in sight is doing in their own area's. I seen about a third of the does that I normally see and about half or less of the bucks I usually see. The insurance industry will not stop lobbying for more deer to be shot so if we as hunters don't start wising up we are going to be our own demise. I also agree about shooting smaller does if we must. We enjoy deer meat and I would love to put some in the freezer but not at the expense of the resource. Something has to happen and soon or there wont be any deer left to hunt.
 
I hear a lot go guys complaining about doe numbers and that we should start holding off shooting them and I agree to a point BUT we didn't get in this situation over night. Why are we crying wolf all of a sudden?? Deer numbers have been declining now for several years in a row. Maybe things have just gotten desperate enough now for some to take notice. We can all blame it on EHD or the DNR but the bottom line is hunters (bow hunters AND gun hunters) have simply been over harvesting does for many years in a row. The last time I checked the DNR wasn't handing out tags for free you had to buy them. We all love the thrill of a successful hunt but I have a feeling some guys do it because it makes them feel macho as a bow hunter when they can tell others the whole pile of deer they killed last year. As sad as it sounds I also believe others just kill to kill, donating the meat as a justification to kill! I personally know several individuals who will shoot every doe, fawn and button buck that comes by just so they can earn an urban buck tag. They hunt without regard.

And yes there are some areas where there is still an over abundance of deer and those hunters should take out what is necessary to avoid over population as long as its done with a purpose in mind. Bottom line is be responsible in what and how much you harvest every year and we won't need to cry wolf.
 
Here's a question. Why do people buy tags to harvest a deer to just give it to HUSH?? Kill crazy people. If you as a hunter don't want to work up the meat or take it to the locker don't KILL IT. I talked to a guy that said he donated all 5 of his does he killed to HUSH. Why even kill them then. When his property is out of deer he will be the first one to cry. I also agree with the OP about shooting the younger deer and leaving the big does. They young does may not go into estrous and probably won't be breed. I killed a young doe with my bow and didn't feel bad about it. We only eat deer and turkey and a little bit of pork in my home so even though it didn't fill the freezer its meat.
 
Doe numbers are way too HIGH on my farm. Seeing 10-15 a night in all of my areas. But there is still no way I would shoot a doe just to donate it to HUSH.
 
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Open Site said:
Every other thread has this same subject.
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Yes, obviously for a reason. I am even a NR who doesn't hunt Iowa, but after hearing the concerns I would find it hard to believe here isn't an issue at hand. I am biased to bowhunters (as I have never shot a deer with a gun) but they know what is going on in the woods more than anyone...including the DNR...haha
 
Jake_Schlotterback said:
Doe numbers are way too HIGH on my farm. Seeing 10-15 a night in all of my areas. But there is still no way I would shoot a doe just to donate it to HUSH.
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10-15 definitely seems like too many deer for sure :confused:

Hate to see what guys like you have to say in 2-3 years when the nights of double digit deer from the stand are gone. I'm sure then you'll notice the problem right?:rolleyes:
 
Booner said:
10-15 definitely seems like too many deer for sure :confused:

Hate to see what guys like you have to say in 2-3 years when the nights of double digit deer from the stand are gone. I'm sure then you'll notice the problem right?:rolleyes:
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10-15 does a night isn't high to you? If that's not high then what is? I agree the numbers are down in some areas just not here. Did I say I was going out and shooting does just to shoot them? No. I haven't shot a doe all year.
 
All good points ....I'm glad these points have been brought up EHD, filling county tag to earn a buck tag In town ...are ya kidding.
I also see very few nice bucks and way to many spikes, forks ....and other assorted dinks. I believe this also goes back to not enough mature does. All of these dinks are coming from late breed fawns.
It also drives me nuts that I also hear ...."there are plenty of deer, they are over in the neighbors standing corn or in the woods across the road"............NO THERE NOT! Ask the bow hunters like MNbuckhunter said!
 
Just thought I would state this...I keep a journal on every single hunt by each person I hunt with, by day, wind, etc...I have tracked MN hunting as well as WI hunting (both of which I feel are very good hunting). I average around 3-4 deer per sit between each locating. Although in MN we are a wintering woods (first big timber to western farmland) and I do see 30+ deer a night in snow. That is a far cry from 15-20 deer. I'm no biologist but I do recall watch some things on B&C TV where they talk about low deer density in Saskatchewan and how that helps the bucks grow big without completion of food.

Just thought I would share where things are at where I hunt. Lower deer density isn't the end of the world as long as you manage the bucks correctly. I am by no means advocating shooting multiple deer (I hate that!!) just wanted to give some light on a sensitive situation.
 
I am a NRLO and I think I speak for many of NRLO's. I've been involved and have owned land in Iowa now for over a decade. I care about the resource as much as anyone. I've hunted in many states to include PA, WV, NY, MT, NC, IA, and IL. I have to say you guys have the very liberal seasons and bag limits, excluding the deep south. In PA for example everyone can shoot one buck landowner or not. Your multiple buck tags and doe seasons are killing the deer numbers. I agree with promoting restraint but if you legally issue tags folks will kill the deer. Because you don't have the hunting population of PA, WI or NY your DNR is providing excess seasons to accomplish their goal. Early muzzy is ridiculous. As a kid I got ready for deer season shooting squirrels, not deer. Late muzzy is ok but the in line system is a rifle. In many states traditional muzzy is the rule. And of course late season rifle for does is insane. As I commented in another thread your IBA needs to use its lobby to reduce bag limits and seasons. Only then will it improve.
 
All I am saying is I am seeing a minimum of 5 does to every buck I see at night. Not just mature buck. That's spikes, basket racks, everything. I've ran cameras all year and I've had a higher doe count this year then ever before but my buck count is way down. I also think that humans think they can control wildlife a lot more then is possible.
 
A few thoughts from someone that has been hunting whitetails in Iowa for about 35 years now...

I think there are several variables at play that explain the much lower deer numbers in what sounds like most of the state. (BTW, I am still of the opinion that pockets exist where deer numbers are fine or even high, but the great majority of the state is way down from what I can see and gather from others.)

But the two dominant variables are the drought induced EHD outbreaks of the last two years and the late antlerless season, in particular, the nearly unlimited amount of tags in some areas.

1. EHD - even where there is very heavy hunting pressure I don't think it is common for 50%-80% of all of the deer in a given area to die in one year. So it is with EHD though. While we have yet to find a definite EHD kill on our farm, I was struck this year by how many times we saw orphaned fawns. Where was mom? EHD? possibly. Killed by a hunter? Not likely, I know we didn't do it and no neighbors that I know of killed many, if any, does this year and these orphaned fawns were apparent as early as September.

FWIW, in our first few hunts of this year, 2013, we saw good numbers of deer overall, seemingly bucking the trend of lower deer sightings everywhere. In fact, after one mid-October hunt my son commented to me that he had never had such an action packed hunt during the "lull period". Yet, it seemed as though the numbers faded throughout the season, even though we hunted carefully and rarely in our best areas.

I think that the deer we had sort of, kind of filtered out to lesser populated areas. Nature abhors a vacuum. In early to mid-November we didn't see the numbers we felt like we should see and we certainly didn't see the mature deer, bucks and does, that we knew we should be seeing.

So even if EHD doesn't strike your farm, I think it can still have an impact even if it is a mile or two away.

2. Late season antlerless - it is one thing to take a few does each year and strive to maintain a balanced herd, but I know of several scenarios first hand where the number of does/buttons/shed outs taken off a given farm exceed what would have been taken through "normal" hunting activity by a factor of 5 or 10 times. While we needed to do something fairly draconian about 5 years ago to reduce the herd, we kept the hammer down for the last 2-3 years where we really needed to let off.

Unfortunately, the tag allocation process is now a political process, not a biological one.
 
JOSHBRNDT said:
Here's a question. Why do people buy tags to harvest a deer to just give it to HUSH?? Kill crazy people. If you as a hunter don't want to work up the meat or take it to the locker don't KILL IT. I talked to a guy that said he donated all 5 of his does he killed to HUSH. Why even kill them then. When his property is out of deer he will be the first one to cry. I also agree with the OP about shooting the younger deer and leaving the big does. They young does may not go into estrous and probably won't be breed. I killed a young doe with my bow and didn't feel bad about it. We only eat deer and turkey and a little bit of pork in my home so even though it didn't fill the freezer its meat.
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Lets not forget HUSH is a great program with a great cause. Those five deer probably put food in the mouthes of many poor and homeless people. Not saying i agree with killing that many does. I do know that we need to start shooting fewer, or even no does at all to help with managing our population. There is nothing wrong in donating deer to HUSH
 
It is an old song,,but the majority of Office holders listen to those with deep pockets. Deer are considered just a PEST by most, except for hunters, and even some of them see it that way. Even when numbers plummet, the tags, and seasons will remain.
 
killer buck said:
Lets not forget HUSH is a great program with a great cause. Those five deer probably put food in the mouthes of many poor and homeless people. Not saying i agree with killing that many does. I do know that we need to start shooting fewer, or even no does at all to help with managing our population. There is nothing wrong in donating deer to HUSH
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Gimme a minute to get the saddle on my horse. Need a ladder...............
 
We all already pay a hush fee when buying our own licenses, so I personally dont donate anything. I was brought up with "if you shoot it, YOU eat it" I know its a great program, and I know the ten dollars I pay yearly isnt much in the grand scheme of things, but its better than nothing
 
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