Apple/Pear Trees

Discussion in 'Dbltree's corner' started by Outdoor Family, Dec 29, 2006.

  1. chokepoint

    chokepoint New Member

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    Kazak apples

    I haven't read through all of this thread but I skimmed it for references to Kazak apples and didn't see any. I read about Kazak apples in M. Pollan's book ' The Botany of Desire'. Well worth reading. It describes how apples are our most genetically limited crop and require huge inputs of pesticide to grow commercial apples. Therefore if you are looking to use apples for wildlife you may want to consider using Kazak apples as an alternative. It would aid in getting new genes into current "native" wild apples and help the research as well. Here is a response from Forsline below that may be of interest.


    Here is the form letter re your request for seeds. I will wait to hear from you to confirm your interest in receiving seeds....Phil

    Philip L. Forsline
    Research Leader/Location Coordinator
    Horticulturist/Curator for Fruit Crops
    USDA, ARS, Plant Genetic Resources Unit
    630 W. North Street
    Geneva, NY 14456-0462
    Phone: 315-787-2390, FAX: -2339
    Cell: 315-521-9933
    e-mail: Philip.Forsline@ars.usda.gov

    http://www.ars.usda.gov/main/site_main.htm?modecode=19100500



    Thank you for your email(letter) re the discussion of Kazak apples in M. Pollan's book ' The Botany of Desire'. I am enclosing via an e-mail format, a generic letter that I send to people with inquiries about our program. Re Kazak apple seeds/trees, we do not have trees available to send out. We can send a small seed lot that you will need to germinate (see the section at the end of this message from our Procedures manual on how that is done). Original seed from Kazakstan is reserved for use by scientists doing genetic research. However I can supply open-pollinated (O.P.) seed from our grow-outs which are in a somewhat isolated area and these would be a blend of all genes from many sites in Kazakstan. This site contains over 1000 trees of Malus sieversii and most of those trees will have fruited by fall 2007.

    I have been receiving many requests like yours: This is how I have handled each request:
    Fruits from the grow-out site were collected in fall 2001, 2002, and 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and we extracted seeds. I have sent about 100 seeds per requester (open-pollinated) from at least 4 different mother trees that represent diverse ecosystems in Kazakstan, to over 250 requesters like yourself. With the new season (2007), we will collect additional seeds from the Kazakh apples. Therefore, for those requests coming in now through 2007 and early 2008, this is what I recommend: From the pool of seed that we collect in fall 2007 from this same site, I will start filling requests for more of the open-pollinated Kazakhstan apple seed. We will start sending seed orders toward the end of October, 2007. You will need to stratify the seeds for 3-4 months (see procedure below): Start the stratification process in November/December 2007; start seedlings indoors in early spring, and plant in the field Spring 2008.

    If you are interested, I will send your order in fall/winter 2006/2007. Please contact me if you are interested in the above scenario. I will need your mailing address.

    Sincerely,

    Phil Forsline

    Guidelines for Malus Seed Germination

    1) Wash and disinfect all containers to be used for chilling or germination and disinfect the working surface on which the seeds are handled.

    2) Soak individual seed lots in separate containers, for a minimum of 24 hours to a maximum of 48 hours in regular tap water. Start the soak in the a.m.; Change the water every 2-3 hours to remove any possible growth inhibitors. You will not need to change water for the overnight soak. Label containers with appropriate identification and handle carefully to avoid misidentification.

    3) Distribute seed evenly on saturated but not dripping wet blotter paper or paper towels, shake off any excess water. Place germination containers in the dark at 1.5oC (34oF) (regular kitchen refrigerator works fine at 38°F to 42°F) for a minimum of 90 days. Check on seeds once a week, changing paper every two weeks.

    4) As needed, surface disinfect each seed lot in 10% chlorox for two minutes, followed by a thorough rinse in running tap water. After 60 or more days, the radicle (white root that starts to emerge from the base of the seed) begins to emerge; then discontinue the use of all surface disinfectants so as not to burn the root-tip.

    5) Therefore after about 60-110 days of chilling as you see a few of the seeds in each seed lot showing radicles, place seeds at 10oC (50oF) (or cool room ~ 60oF is fine) for 2-5 days to promote full germination of the seed lot. If some of the seed still appears viable continue to hold the seed at 100C until you see radicle emerge and then plant.

    6) When radicles have emerged, carefully plant pre-germinated seed in 4" plastic pots with Cornell mix (commercial potting mix). When planting the seeds with the white radicles, take extra care in not damaging the young radicle (1st root) tip. Grow seedling to 6-7 true leaves and transplant to nursery.
     
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  3. JNRBRONC

    JNRBRONC Moderator

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  4. dbltree

    dbltree Super Moderator

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    Very interesting stuff right there! Never heard of it before but that's the great thing about these forums...one never stops learning! :way:
     
  5. dbltree

    dbltree Super Moderator

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    I noticed even here by the house that deer have started hitting the new growth on the apple trees

    [​IMG]

    So I got busy and started fencing them and this setup cost about $12 bucks a tree buying 5 ft posts and 4' wire from Menards. Posts were $2.50 a piece and a 50' roll of wire was $22 and does about 5 trees.

    We just lift the wire up off the ground since the bottome is protected by the window screen

    [​IMG]

    I noticed the Goldrush Trees are really infected with Cedar Apple Rust

    [​IMG]

    Cedar Apple Rust

    Goldrush from ACN

    [​IMG]

    and from Century Farms

    [​IMG]

    Both were infected

    [​IMG]

    Autumn Rose

    [​IMG]

    and

    Enterprise

    [​IMG]

    appear to be healthy happy trees!

    [​IMG]

    Just some observations from the Doubltree... ;)
     
  6. Joey Rott

    Joey Rott New Member

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    I thought I'd make a post on a couple fruit tree's I had. I planted these 2 in Spring 08, and late last summer the grasshoppers where tough on many of my trees, and ended up killing quite a few. Being that roots were alive, they re-sprouted this spring, and now I have several stems. I planned on trimming these tree's up this fall or early Spring during dormancy, but thought i'd post some pics here for recommendations.. from guys who actually know what they're doing LOL.

    The 1st tree is a Pear. One steam is a perfectly straight 5ft steam with pretty much nothing for branches. The other stem broke in early-mid summer so it shot branches out pretty low, and now has a dominant central leader. Here are a couple pics. Which one would you choose to keep... the perfectly straight one, or the one that's slightly crooked with big branches starting already.

    Straight Stem (Pear)

    [​IMG]


    Branched Steam (Pear)

    [​IMG]


    This Tree is a Peach i'm pretty sure. 3 Stems @ 4-5ft. 1 is really straight but smaller than the other 2. I would assume it'd be best to cut 2 down and leave one... in the long run for better quality fruit production and for single steam strength.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  7. dbltree

    dbltree Super Moderator

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    You can just cut off the dead part Joey but where it has sprouted from the root, below the graft it will not be the tree you expected.

    Most fruit trees are grafted to a rootstock that is nothing at all like the grafted portion.

    I'm not sure what they use on the pears? You don't have much to lose by trimming away the dead stuff and see what happens but maybe someone else will have other thoughts?
     
  8. Joey Rott

    Joey Rott New Member

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    Good info Paul. Yeah, I was planning on cutting the dead pear out of there. I cut the peach out already. I wish I knew more about these tree's. I purchased them last year from Orschelins cheap, in pots. I considered them a loss, and was about to dig them up to put new ones in, when I saw the new growth coming up & decided to leave them & see what happen. Now they're 5ft tall.

    Fortunately the hoppers haven't been too bad this year. Only 3 of the 7 fruit trees made it alright through last year. They ate the bark right off the tree...along with most of the leaves.
     
  9. dbltree

    dbltree Super Moderator

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    I wonder if you couldn't use some type of screen or netting over the trees until they get older (during "hopper" season) to help protect them?
     
  10. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    Keep those trees alive! Even if you have the JUNK rootstock trees- start grafting in desirable trees on to the root stock that resprouted. Yes, if you let the root-stock tree you NOW have go- you'd likely have JUNK for fruit BUT it's easy to take ANY type of apple you want (cut off a tree you like) and graft on the junk tree that is doing well. Let me know if you don't understand what i am saying. Good luck!
     
  11. dbltree

    dbltree Super Moderator

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    Makes perfect sense to me...too bad I don't know how to graft anything:D

    One thing for sure your not going to kill the rootstock while attempting the grafts so it would be a good place to practice...;)
     
  12. letemgrow

    letemgrow PMA Member

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    Paul,

    What I did on that fencing I used like you just bought from Menards, was turn it upside down. Then the smaller squared parts are more at the browse line of deer and the bigger squared parts are towards the bottom where there is nothing for them to get to anyways. I figure on my place it would only be a matter of time before they would be reaching through the bigger squared parts and tearing stuff up. :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
  13. dbltree

    dbltree Super Moderator

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    I'm getting ready to start the stratification process with the Kazak apple seeds which is as follows:

    I'll keep posting the different steps as I go along...something new and different for me but interesting just the same!

    Here is an article on the Kazak apple trees and the reasons for attempting to spread the genes around the country.

    Remarkable Kazak Apples
     
  14. dbltree

    dbltree Super Moderator

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    I purchased some small containers with lids and then marked the containers and the envelopes that have the genetic information listed for each of the four Kazak Apples we received. I ran them through the dishwasher to disinfect them even though brand new.

    [​IMG]

    I then soaked the seeds, changing the water several times but eventually leaving them to saok over night.

    [​IMG]

    By morning they water was discolored from the softened seeds...

    [​IMG]

    I rinsed the seeds, washed and dried the containers and then proceeded to the next step

    [​IMG]

    I made sure the paper towel was damp but not soaking wet and placed the seeds back in the containers

    [​IMG]

    Reattached the lids and placed them back in the fridge

    [​IMG]

    I'll check them and change the paper towels and disinfect as as noted in the next step..

    After they have gone thru the stratification process (much the same as happens naturally in the wild) then I will plant the seeds in pots and get them started indoors... :cool:
     
  15. Nontypcl1

    Nontypcl1 Member

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    I'm looking for someone in central iowa who might want to pool together an order of apple trees. I would like to order asap. If you are interested send me a PM.
     
  16. letemgrow

    letemgrow PMA Member

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    Definitely check out Adams County Nursery as they have really good price breaks for that many apple trees.

    You can get the best they have to offer for 13.75 a tree for 25-99 trees which are 1/2 inch or bigger and feathered. :way:
     
  17. Nontypcl1

    Nontypcl1 Member

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    That's where I've been looking at ordering from. They seem to have the best supply right now as well.
     
  18. letemgrow

    letemgrow PMA Member

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    I was very impressed with the apple trees I ordered from them and also Century Farms Orchard. Another great place to check out. :way:
     
  19. dbltree

    dbltree Super Moderator

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    Just dont wait to order from ACN because they will begin to sell out rapidly this time of year, especially late ripening varieties.

    Burnt Ridge is another nursery with great prices and good stock if you don't find someone to pool an order.

    Most of their trees at $15-16 with no minimum order making them a reasonable option for smaller orders.

    Burnt Ridge Nursery

    We ordered Asian pears from them last year and they did very well...:way:
     
  20. whitetail fanatic

    whitetail fanatic New Member

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    I've read before about getting apple trees on clearance at the end of the season at stores with garden centers like Wal Mart for example. What time of year does this usually happen and what kind of deals can we expect? Also, is the quality of their apple trees decent? I'm guessing this would be late May to early June when they go on clearance?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
  21. dbltree

    dbltree Super Moderator

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    Sometimes it's the end of summer for root balled or container trees but fall can be a great time to plant any trees including apple and pears.

    I bought a couple 8 ft apple trees last summer and so far they are doing fine. Paid $12 a piece which of course you can buy them for that from nurseries but they won't be 8' high either!

    Assuming they are on a good rootstock the tree itself should be just as good as anyones tree and many of us can't resist the opportunity to plant another tree or two at a reasonable price...:way:
     

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