Brassicas

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - September 15th

Since you say it is "wayyy over seeded", what are people's opinions on going over the top with more granular fertilizer?

Some nitrogen wouldn't hurt anything, especially if you can find some lawn fertilizer WITHOUT 2-4D weedkiller

They usually have fall fertilizer without weedkiller this time of year and it has slow release nitrogen in it which will really make it shoot for the moon!

It is very easy to get that stuff to thick and that's one of those "live and learn" things. Travis has the right idea the #'s per acre...light is better!

Maybe we should have a "root" contest this fall...who has the biggest turnip??

 

[risto2351]

Re: Brassicas - September 15th

Maybe we should have a "root" contest this fall...who has the biggest turnip??

Paul,
I would be a year too late Paul.
Since the farmer pulled his land out of CRP
I have went from this.

To this

Good thing my rye is my ace in the hole. ( I hope)

 

[risto2351]

Re: Brassicas - September 15th

A little rain helped these plots. There is still some that needs to grow to fill it out. Still needs some rain.



Before:

After:

Before:

After:

This last plot has a lot of upturned dirt. Looks like something has been in there. I need to put a cam traker in there to see what it is. Otherwise it is a very poor looking plot with everythin done just like the other.

Put some Brassicas in the corn also. Come on rain.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - September 20th

it is a very poor looking plot with everything done just like the other.

That's really odd, almost like the seed didn't germinate in those areas? Did turkeys get in there and scratch around maybe?

My brassicas on one farm are outstanding...and untouched...they seem to be all foliage at this point and I can see no "root" or turnip forming on any of them yet.

They are lush and thick and have all the brands and varieties yet deer have taken nary a bite... I fertilized these brassicas heavily and tilled in red clover as well so they are lacking nothing.

You can see also that mixing anything with brassicas is not likely to work if they have a chance to grow...they will out compete anything and everything.

I am standing in an alfalfa field and you can see there are oat plots, soybean fields and even clover plots surrounding this brassica plot. They simply aren't interested at this point and I would note that they are not eating it despite claims by "big name" seed companies that their product is irresistible...

Now the other farm...is another story.......

Previouslyin this thread I listed all the brands and varieties and showed early pics as they came up. I tilled under spring oats and berseem clover so I have oats that re-sprouted.

Deer have pounded these brassicas to death...same brassicas, all types, every major company and seeds from Welters and the Bullseye from nannyslayer.

They don't care...they are mowing it regardless if the seed costs a buck a pound or ten!

A few weeks ago the brassicas were above the oats but now they have grazed the brassicas down to where the oats are almost above them.

They are pulling some of them right out of the ground.

As of 9-21 this is the biggest turnip I noticed simply because they are eating them to the ground.

I stuck up a couple exclusion cages to see what happens from here on out.

I top dressed some areas with fertilizer but hoped for rain didn't come. I used some high nitrogen lawn fertilizer that has some slow release urea in it so some of it will be available.

To test different planting dates I planted a few in mid August

and planted a third set September first but you can see that the late planted ones aren't going to provide much forage.

The long season brassicas planted this spring are actually doing better after I clipped the berseem clover.

Tyfon on 9-21

Swedes 9-21

Kale 9-21

Long season brassicas with berseem clover...no lack of feed but the berseem is certainly not the best choice as it is just way to thick.

I'll continue to monitor the different varieties, planting dates and fertilizer effects and see what happens but right now I can see now advantage to one brand or variety over another.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - September 22nd

When did you top dress the brassicas? Too late now?

The 'Bonker

I just put some on Sept 20th but it never did rain and that's the problem with top dressing urea, it's going to denitrify and a certain percentage will be lost to the air without a good rain to push it into the soil.

So..it's not to late we may have weeks of growing weather yet. Looking at the forecast I don't see even a hint of frost in the forecast.

I would look for some slow release lawn fertilizer WITHOUT weedkiller in it. Perhaps a fall/winter lawn fertilizer which will be high in nitrogen. The slow release type will last without being lost if it doesn't rain.

The forecast looks like rain is at least possible if you can get some on this evening...

Tonight: Isolated showers between 10pm and 1am, then a chance of showers and thunderstorms after 1am. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 61. South wind between 5 and 10 mph. Chance of precipitation is 40%.

Wednesday: Isolated showers before 1pm. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 82. Calm wind becoming south around 5 mph. Chance of precipitation is 20%.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - September 30th

I walked out in some of my brassicas and took some closeup pics of why mixing other crops (grains,clovers etc.) usually isn't going to work well.

Just the top of my knee is showing here

It's just a very thick "jungle" down in there and anything else planted there doesn't stand a chance...

The Tecomate brassica mix I planted had red clover and chicory in it and I added some red clover to the other mixes as well but so far I can see know evidence of any surviving.

Late planted brassicas (late August or early September) won't have enough time to over power other crops...but then what is the point? These were planted Sept first and just don't have time to produce any real forage compared to those planted late July or early August

Mid August is a little better but still no comparison to those with more growth time.

Planting short season brassicas to early means they will end up maturing and bolting at which point they will become unpalatable to deer. So late July/early August puts us in their 60-90 day growing season to give us optimum forage production by cold weather/fall season.

Maximum production however also means there won't be room for anything else but brassicas. That being said I would encourage you to stay away from mixes that contain anything but brassicas.

Frost seed clover into the brassica plot rather then add seed at planting.

If the brassicas are thin or heavily grazed then broadcast field rye in early September to "spruce" up your plot.

I had some grass growing in one corner of this brassica patch, so I sprayed it with Select. We'll see what that looks like in a week or so...

Still no frost in the forecast here in SE Iowa and we got about an inch of rain the other night so we still have plenty of time for growth of both forage brassicas and turnip (root) production.

Who's got the biggest turnip??

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - September 30th

I have noticed the competition problem as my brassicas were planted July 27th in SE IA but are only the size of your Mid August planting???I planted with clover and oats (big mistake on oats as they are seeded out now) but I believe with all the comp maybe that's why they are so small. They are DER from Welters.

Planting dates and what we plant together are a big deal and the reason I don't care for many commercial mixes where to many "variables" are thrown together.

I tilled down spring oats to plant this brassica patch so the oats re-seeded from tilling them in, otherwise they wouldn't be there.

At first it looked like this...like everywhere else dry weather had it looking spotty but otherwise it was doing ok early on.

Dry weather and very heavy grazing eventually left it looking like this however...as the oats took over.

I've already posted pics previously in this thread showing the brassicas eaten to the ground...something many of you don't have a problem with early on, so each case is different.

Cereal grains can withstand very dry weather and recover quickly with very little moisture. They also can handle intensive grazing...take a lickin and keep on tickin so to speak.

Brassicas however need copious amounts of moisture and nitrogen and cannot recover as quickly if at all from intensive grazing.

Combine grains with brassicas and you have a recipe for disaster...only one will come out on top and it just depends on which one has all the "right stuff" to survive.

Rule of thumb...plant brassicas alone right around the first of August...plant cereal grains roughly around the first of September.

Some things go together like oats and peas or rye and clover but brassicas are best off planted alone........

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - September 30th

Will Select kill the Oats??

You bet...but the oats and brassicas will all be gone next spring and timely clipping will clean up anything that happens to pop up.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - October 10th

These are pics of all the different varieties and brands of brassicas on one of my farms where deer do not eat them early on.

Couple things we can learn from this situation.......

1) Despite big ad claims by "big buck on the bag" brand companies that deer will be drawn like magnets to their product...brand simply doesn't matter!

If deer like brassicas...they eat them ALL if they don't...they won't eat any of them...

2) Because these brassicas have as yet not been grazed we can see what kind of potential they have, what they will look like at maturity and if they have roots or not.

3) We can see that "mixes" will NOT work, simply because well fertilized brassicas will completely over power and out comptete anything else that is planted with them....

First let's take a look at the different "brands"....

This is the Winfred Brassica and Hunter Brassica that is in the BullsEye and Maxi-Rack Mix (nannyslayer mix)

They may produce "roots" but I have not been able to find any as of yet...

This is Biologic Maximum

Again...no roots to be found but this stuff is all very very thick

Tecomate mix...not a single clover or chicory plant to be found! The rape in the mix is very dominate!

Rape does not have a root so not expecting any here but rather to show that the red clover, chicory and other seeds that one pays for in a "mix" have not a snowballs chance in you know where of surviving...so why pay for a "mix"????

Most of us already know what to expect from the Welters brassica seeds (I did not plant any Purple Tops this time) It is a good mix of Dwarf Essex rape and other reasonable priced seeds previously listed in this thread.

In this mix I could easily find "turnips"...

I found some that were torn up but I suspect from the looks of things that a couple of bucks may have been sparring there...

This is some IW Wintergreen brassica that was planted later but still untouched...

These are late planted brassicas planted 9-1 and they are doing well and notice they are over powering the oats and rye already....

This is brassicas broadcast into soybeans that germinated and are growing just fine!

I sprayed some mature grasses with Select and they are starting to die and the brassicas are unharmed....

I've already posted pics from the other farm where deer have grazed ALL varieties relentlessly since August but I have exclusion cages so we'll see how that goes also.

In short purchase your brassica seed from whom ever you wish...deer simply do not care! That being said, nannyslayer can send you a bag of awesome brassica seed or you can call Welters...either way you'll save some dollars and it won't make a hill a beans difference to the deer...

If you prefer the more expensive "big buck on the bag" seed...it will work just fine.....just don't try to convince me that it is........better.......

 

[ajadams]

Re: Brassicas - October 10th

Here is a couple pictures of one of my plots that the right side has been clover for a few years and the left just brome.

In this picture it is the left side that was clover. A little foxtail but plenty of food.

So far the only thing thats hitting this is my dad. He keeps picking my turnips, I guess they do taste pretty good.

 

[risto2351]

Re: Brassicas - October 10th

Brassicas were not looking very good in this plot a few weeks ago.

They still are not very high but look a little better.

Found out why they have not been growing very well though.
Darn deer have been eating them.

This plot is filling in nicely.

Even have some nice turnips.

Planted some in the corn to see what would happen.
Won't be huge but will hopefully grow some more.

Should be plenty of food for them this fall and winter.

 

[ironwood]

Re: Brassicas - October 10th

Here's some I planted in the corn. This spot was a little thin, but is was a good place of a deer to stand.

 

[ironwood]

Re: Brassicas - October 10th

This spot was planted on 8-8-08. The dirt was tilled 7-1-08 then sprayed with roundup around the end of July. Because of a break down I was unable to pack this so I spread it ahead of a rain. It looked a little bleek, the first photo is August 31st. The second is Sept 15th. This stand looks very sweet today.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - October 10th

Quote:
This stand looks very sweet today



I can see the deer approve! Thanks for sharing the pics Mike

Central Iowa's brassicas......

I tried getting them in the last week of July "wet or dry plant turnips on the 25th of July" but with a heavy soaking that week I had to wait until the 4th of August to get them planted. I started with a order from Welter seeds and made a custom blend of 1# Purple Tops, 1/2# Barkant Turnip, 1/2# Appin Turnip, 1/3# Pasja Hybrid Brassica, 1/3# Bonar Rape,1/3# Dwarf Essex Rape per acre for a total of 3# per acre.

August 4th I spread the seed with a hand seeder set on the finest setting on freshly disced ground. Gave it one pass with the cultipacker and waited and waited for rain. We received almost 1" a few weeks after planting but with available ground moisture and heavy dew most mornings it has done just fine.
The pictures taken below were 34 days apart. 1 week ago I spread fertilizer before a rain that should help quite a bit. Looks like we will have plenty of quality forage to help the deer through the winter if things continue as planned.

 

[ironwood]

Re: Brassicas - October 10th

They have been eating acorns there. It looks like they have not touched any of it yet.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - October 18th Topdress results

Some brassicas in one plot got pretty yellow earlier so I topdressed them with some nitrogen 9-21

They were being grazed heavily and plenty of competition from the "self seeded" oats that came up when I tilled them under.

Three weeks later they show a marked difference!

Brassicas love nitrogen and if they are heavily grazed like this field, then extra N will keep them growing.

I just used some high nitrogen lawn fertilizer that I picked up on sale and it worked fine. 46% Urea would normally be the ticket.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - October 30th - Freeze

We had our first major freeze here in SE Iowa on the 28th when temps "officially" hit 25 degrees in Fairfield, however it read 23 at our place.

I took this pic a couple days before it froze and this plot has not been touched. It includes all the brands and varieties mentioned earlier in this thread.

Typically they don't eat brassicas on this farm but will devour the turnips later in the winter. This is just another reason to include both rape and turnips in your brassica mixture.

The other farm, the exact same brassicas have been mowed from the get go as they have done every year I have planted them.

Why? Deer adapt I think, to feeding on safe available food sources and perhaps even more so where choosing more traditional feeds may get them shot at...

No need for a freeze here, they find them quit tasty already...

Unfortunately there will be no "turnips" left for the late season on this farm because they will have been grazed to heavily.

What about other options with brassicas?

They are so easy to broadcast into standing corn and beans and so inexpensive. Quality seed is available for $1.50 to $5 a pound and at 3-5#'s per acre it just doesn't make sense not to take advantage of it.

These were broadcast into standing soybeans in early September but I would broadcast them at the first hint that leaves are turning.

I used field rye and brassicas here:

What about mixing brassicas with other crops?

Looking at the first pic you can see that brassicas planted early (as they should be) will out compete any other plants but late planted plots can be mixed.

This pic shows oats and brassicas planted Sept. 1st and you can see where I got them a little thicker they have over powered the oats.

Late planted brassicas will never have enough growing time to provide maximum forage yield but they can extend the life of an oat plot as the brassicas will last after the oats have frozen.

Mixing some brassicas in is also a way of getting deer a little "acclimated" to them and being certain that they will use your plot regardless if they like brassicas or not.

This buck is feeding on oats while not touching the brassicas mixed in.

If your not sold on brassicas or haven't had success with them in the past, throw a little brassica seed in with your cereal grains to keep "testing" to see if they will learn to eat them.

When mixing, sow the larger seeds first and then the smaller brassicas and use a lighter seeding rate of 1-2#'s per acre.

That's only going to set you back 5 bucks and allow you to keep your options open rather then writing brassicas off for good.

Brassicas have the potential for a tremendous amount of very high quality forage once deer decide to feed on them. If turnips and rape are mixed the turnip roots can be a draw well into the new year.

They also are a way to take advantage of nitrogen from a worn out clover or alfalfa plot and have their own soil building attributes from their deer tap roots.

We'll check on these in a week or so and see what effect if any the freeze had on these brassicas and if it had any effect on usage.

 

[Limb Chicken]

Re: Brassicas - October 30th - Freeze

Brassica plot Nov. 2nd. Hope they eat them...

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - November 22nd

Quote:
Winner gets the honor of being Mr. Big Turnip 2008.




Sounds to much like Mr. Potato Head...

Update on my brassicas, two different farms, different deer, same brassicas both places, whicj include Biologic, Tecomate, Wintergreens, Bullseye and a mix of varieties from Welter seed.

The long and short is still this...if they like brassicas they will eat all of them regardless of brand. If they refuse them, they will snub their noses at ALL of them regardless of brand.

So plant whatever you like because it's a little like trucks and tractors...the only thing different is the price....

All of the brands and varieties have performed well so let's start with pics form the farm were they haven't touched them yet.

They have been repeatedly frozen now with temps to 12 degrees

Which has wilted them pretty heavily here in late November

The Tecomate included clovers and chicory which is a complete waste because the forage rape just over powers everything.

You can see by this pic that there is no light and no room for other plants

This is a closeup of the Bullseye brassica mix from nannyslayer. It's very green and did very well but I don't see much for turnip roots?

Lot of forage for sure!

This is the only root I could find, have any others noticed roots on the BE or is it just mine? I actually think this one is a radish.

One thing is clear, brassicas are like corn, they love Nitrogen. Feed them 75# of actual nitrogen per acre and you'll have some awesome forage and roots to boot.

All of these were fertilized heavily.

Here's a Biologic root

These are some turnip roots from the Welters varieties like Appin and Barkant.

Some are being pulled

These were planted Sept 1st, heavily fertilized and mixed with oats and you can see not an oat in sight!

Compare that to a few feet away where I planted them very thinly and you can see that the oats dominated.

If mixing with cereal grains plant at only 1-2# per acre or even less.

Now to the other farm, where they have been heavily grazed right from the get go

These had volunteer oats that I tilled under to compete with but deer hammered them both pretty hard.

The roots are already being eaten

They are all much smaller because they plant has been grazed so hard it has no reserves for the root.

There are all the same brassicas as the first pics just different deer (as in too many... )

I only top dressed the brassicas on this farm so next year I'll go ahead and till in nitrogen when I plant as I did the plot in the first pics.

The long season Kale and Swedes that I planted in the spring really show up now that the Berseem clover has died.

The deer have showed it no mercy either...

Nannyslayer has some new brassica mixes to try this next year and I might see how the sugar beets do compared to brassicas.

Brassica/Sugar beet blend

Brassica seed blend

Sugar beets

If you have pics of your brassicas, please post them and share your results.

oh...and don't forget your super duper monster turnips for the Mr. Turnip of the year award!

Monster Turnip Contest

 

[Fishbonker]

Re: Brassicas - November 22nd

It looks like the deer might be nibbling on my turnips some. Can't tell a difference in preference between Bullseye and regular purple top yet, but I'm not 100% sure the deer are eating either, yet.

Bullseye, notice how big the greens are. They were planted pretty heavy so that may have affected their bulb.

Purple top on left (bottom) and bullseye on right (top). Again, the bullseye are much leafier and aren't quite as wilted as the purple tops. Kinda hard to tell from the photo.

Big purple tops. Most are baseball to croquet ball in size.

The 'Bonker