Cereal Grains and cover crops

Discussion in 'Dbltree's corner' started by dbltree, Aug 25, 2006.

  1. Tmayer13

    Tmayer13 PMA Member

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    I guess my question would be if you have an existing clover plot, is there is a reason you want to get rid of it just to replant clover right into it?. If your wanting the rye in there you could just lightly disc it then spread or drill the rye back into it and id bet the clover will bounce right back
     
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  3. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    So- u have EXISTING CLOVER & wanna add more to it? U wanna kill broadleaves? Can spray: Butyrac, imox or yes, 16-32 oz of Gly. Here’s issue with Gly.... many of weeds may be Gly tolerant. To spray low rate is not the best option. I’d personally mow it or spray other 2 options. Drill into any of those scenarios and it will add more to sparse areas and work just fine. A lot of ways to tackle this. Lots of options. Yes, would be fine though.
    Above post came up same time as mine. Great points & also yet more options.
     
  4. iowathumper

    iowathumper Member

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    I have stuck with Dbltree's rotation recommendations for the last 8 years. I was wondering if either of the original seed mixes has been adjusted or updated.

    The feed store where I purchase seed (They get it from Welter) telling me the Berseem might not be a great choice planting in the next week or so.

    Brassicas mix was Per acre - 5 Lb GHR 3 Lbs PTT 2 Lbs DER
    Cerial grain mix Per acre - 60 Lbs Winter Rye 60 Lbs Oats 5 Lbs GHR 8 Lbs Berseem clover 8 Lbs Red Clover
     
  5. Tmayer13

    Tmayer13 PMA Member

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    I think guys are still using the same the brassica mix with or without the rape, but the glorious thing about the cereal grain mix is y0u can make it whatever you want! I think the backbone of the mix is your winter rye but after that you can play around with it and plant to your likings. Ill be using rye, oats and radishes this year.
     
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  6. goatman

    goatman I hunt days ending in Y

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    Yep I have left out the rape. Winter rye,horse feed oats,red clover,radish,chicory,leftover soybeans(free seed for plots),and sunflowers(bird feed kind). The feed store is probably thinking the berseem clover won't reach maturity which really doesn't matter. Just think of small fresh green plants. Even some freshly sprouted weeds will draw.
     
  7. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I've always wanted to just go to menards and get several varieties of bird seed and plant it. See what happens. Be an interesting experiment.

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  8. Daver

    Daver PMA Member

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    FWIW, I planted a bag of sunflowers from Menard's once...as a plot for doves/quail. They grew fine and turned out well.
     
  9. iowathumper

    iowathumper Member

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    Thanks! 8 Lbs of Red clover & 8 Lbs of another clover variety seems like a lot of seed per acre. What would be your other choice of clover if you did not go with Berseem?
     
  10. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Crimson.

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  11. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    It’s time fellas!!!! Right now until about mid September is ideal time to get in the ground. This is your window and get after it!!!
     
  12. hillrunner

    hillrunner PMA Member

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    I'm putting in a few acres this weekend, after that there's nothing left to do but wait for hunting season.
     
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  13. Rutty

    Rutty Member

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    Is it too early to put in Winter Rye on Thrusday? I don't want it to get too tall. Also, the ground is tilled/worked and will be damp. It will be hard to drag over with a harrow after i broadcast. Can i get away with just broadcasting seed and not dragging over?
     
  14. Tmayer13

    Tmayer13 PMA Member

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    Nope perfect time for it...broadcasting is just fine only issue could be birds eating it but you should be ok.

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  15. Rutty

    Rutty Member

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    This winter rye stuff is new to me. So after I plant it in a few days will I have to plant it again next september or is it established?
     
  16. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    It's an annual. Although it will reseed itself but timing usually is off.

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  17. Tmayer13

    Tmayer13 PMA Member

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    Basically it's a cheap easy fall food source that will green up first in the spring, grow tall for great fawning cover and also build your soil...it's the perfect seed for 15$ for 50lbs...

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  18. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    From Pauls 1st post on cereal mix here..... cleaned up some to take out some old stuff that won’t show up....
    RIP dbltree!!!!

    I know a lot of you are getting ready to plant fall grains like wheat, rye and oats. I'm getting ready to plant some myself so here's a few thoughts and links.

    My favorite can't fail fall mix:

    If you cannot locate seeds locally Welter Seed carries everything you need.

    Ground Hog Forage Radish Seed

    Pea and rye seed

    Clover seeds

    Rye and triticale would be my favorites for fall and winter feed. Rye is cheap but triticale (a cross between wheat and rye) is a leafier version with the attributes of both.

    Cereal rye is always my first choice over wheat or any other grain because it is higher in protein, requires no fertilizer, will grow on low PH soils, has alleopathic chemicals that discourage weeds, is a nitrogen scavenger and a root system that breaks up soil hardpan and improves soil.

    Make sure you ask for RYE not ryegrass seed! Rye seed is around $10-12 per bag.

    Wheat works fine but doesn't have the "weed inhibitor" abilities of rye which affects next springs food plot, whatever it might be. Wheat sucks up nitrogen and has none of the soil building attributes that rye has. Wheat is lower in protein so unless it's all you can find, DON'T plant it!

    Oats work well also but have a limited time frame because of frost. An early frost means it may be long dead well before the 1st of November. I use regular oats which are about $10-12 a bag versus "brand name" oats which cost considerably more and the deer mow them!

    Rye and tricticale seeding rates can be from 80-100# per acre

    Wheat 90-120#

    Oats 80-120#

    They all love nitrogen so a 100# of 46% urea (or more) would certainly encourage growth.
     
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  19. Rutty

    Rutty Member

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    Thanks for the replies. So all I have to do is mow it down to ankle high or so in the summer and fall?
     
  20. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    Seed sources

    Albert Lea Seed Company

    Welter Seed (check under "other grains")

    Adams Briscoe Seed Company

    Cooper Seeds

    Hancock Seed

    Greencover Seed

    Fall Rye Grain

    Austrian Winter Peas

    Frank Forage Oats

    Alta-Swede Mammoth Red Clover

    PM nannyslayer on this site if your in the mid west southern Iowa area

    Winter Rye

    Cereal Grains include winter rye, winter wheat, spring and fall triticale, barley, buckwheat and oats and are perhaps one of the least expensive and easiest food plots that we can plant.

    Of those listed winter rye (fall rye grain NOT ryegrass) is my favorite as it has a host of attributes not found in other grains. Rye is the most winter hardy, surviving the most brutal winters, grows on a wide range of soil Ph from acid to alkaline, is a nitrogen scavenger (compared to wheat that sucks up N like a sponge!! :shock: ), is one of the ultimate cover crops because of it's allelopathic effects on many types of weeds and it's ability to break up hardpan soils and is one of the highest in crude protein.
     
  21. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    Recycle Nitrogen? Rye is one of the few plants capable of taking up nitrogen and then re-releasing it when tilled under the following spring! Not going to happen with wheat, when it use nitrogen it's gone!!

    Why cereal rye?

    More about Rye

    Attributes of Rye

    High on Rye

    Winter Rye for Extending the Grazing Season

    Cover Crops: Cereal Rye

    CEREAL RYE - Secale cereale

    Cereal Rye for Cover Cropping

    These links show that rye has higher crude and digestible protein then all other cereal grains such as wheat, triticale and oats.

    Winter Rye for Extending the Grazing Season

    Managing Small Grains for Livestock Forage

    Understanding Forage Nutrition for Ruminants

    Interpreting Forage Quality Reports

    I usually mix oats with my winter rye but oats like wheat is consistently lower in crude protein:

    Cereal Forages for Spring Planting

    Oats compared to wheat and triticale

    Whitetails absolutely love rye and will dig thru deep snows to get at it during winter months and even the highest deer densities can not destroy it. I often hear people touting winter wheat but wheat cannot hold a candle to the many positives of rye and in fact has to many negative attributes to even consider it unless rye seed is not easily obtained.

    Rye - Longer Grazing, fewer weeds!
    Click to expand...
    Triticale is a cross between wheat and rye making it a great option but it often is not readily available without expensive shipping.

    Oats are a great fall food source but even the most winter hardy oats will be killed when temps plunge into the 20 degree range.


    Austrian Winter peas 50# per acre

    Hairy vetch 20-40#

    AWP won't survive the winter but will stay green for awhile and are just a cheap "deer candy"

    Hairy vetch produces a tremendous amount of nitrogen the following spring and I'm only planting it because I will follow it with corn again. I hope to no-till the corn and beans into the growing cover crops and then kill it all with roundup.
    Don't let HV go to seed and stick with peas if you aren't following it with corn.
     

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