Cross Bows in Iowa....? I hope not

Discussion in 'Iowa Whitetail Conference' started by thecreedeer, Dec 14, 2014.

  1. Sod Savage

    Sod Savage Member

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    For the record I could care less about crossbows, I shotgun and muzzleload. I just see a lot of angst with mostly bow hunters against gun hunters or crossbow or whatever. My point is that hunters and outdoorsmen and women shouldn't fight against each other because there are other battles more important battles that will come along.

    The deer population here is down, but for crying out loud how many deer do you need to see? Cripes our 2nd season shotgun group could have been done by 11 oclock on Sat morning if we were the brown its down type. Granted we are just 7 dumb buddys that like to hike the woods and be outside.




    Things cycle, the deer population is the same, I already can count probably 15 guys that have quit hunting in the last 5-7 years, and I don't know that many guys that have started. The easy hunting of seeing 100 deer a day are over and that keeps the fair weather guys at home.

    I honestly don't know of one guy that currently doesn't bow hunt that is going to run out and get a crossbow, I am sure there are some, but probably not as many as some fear. I sure won't.
     
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  3. CurtisWalker

    CurtisWalker Well-Known Member

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    100 deer a day? Man I'm lucky to see one deer a day.
    I have 22 bowhunters in the area I hunt most of us can see each other from a treestand. Used to be 8 hunters on a 40 acre piece until one of them bought it and kicked everyone else off. I'd hate to see crossbows added to archery season because I already see people chomping at the bits to get in. Bump 22 up to 26 I'd be lucky to see deer let alone be able to hunt anymore.

    To the people who support crossbows do you own your own ground? Will they have an affect on you? Most likely you have ground that you control and won't have to deal with the added pressure.

    Looks like first thing I need to buy after college is land because that will be the only way to get on land to hunt without shaking people's hands from my stand or digging money out of my pockets. Crossbows are allowed in Iowa. Now let's all fight to keep it where it is.
     
  4. mplane72

    mplane72 Active Member

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    Thanks. For the record I gun hunt too. I will only add that this idea that we can't have disagreements in the hunting community is misguided in my opinion. Every family has their squabbles. As long as we can unite when we face a common threat things are fine.
     
  5. Sod Savage

    Sod Savage Member

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    There can definatly be differances. Heck for me its better if there wern't crossbows.

    But there are three different guys that have brought up an end to party hunting and and all out end to gun hunting in this thread. Unless I am reading it wrong IABUCKSLAYER2013, Curtis, and Sligh all mentioned it. Mostly in the name of safety or having more mature bucks. Well it would benifit them, so they think its best, so I say maybe we shouldn't hunt from a tree stand anymore for safetys sake and there shouldn't be hunting during the rut for the mature bucks sake. Well that is recockulus but it would benifit me as a gun hunter. But this is the kind of BS infighting that I am talking about, not necessarly adding a crossbow to archery season.

    Maybe I am reading things wrong from these guys because the way the written word is read, and its not really what they mean IDK.
     
  6. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    I know party hunting won't go away. Even if I'd like it to- I think we all need to unite to keep all the special interests from changing our current regs. Leave em alone! Including some many might not like- we need to fight back the $ pimps that don't care about iowas deer herd, quality, pressure, safety, access, etc. They care about their "special interests" and it ends there. Those dumb enough to join their bandwagon will be the first to gripe when hunting goes down the crapper IMO (like it already has in many areas).


    I'll squabble with my fellow hunters all day long to protect our resource. Because if we don't- those hunters will quit when hunting sucks and gets ruined so I won't have anyone to squabble with then - they will do something else. U wanna see an example??? PHEASANT HUNTERS- go find masses of them to squabble with. U can't because most have quit, including myself because the hunting went down the tubes (largely impacted by $ and politicians I might add- long story). When hunting sucks- folks quit. U constantly mess with out regs- hunting will suck IMO and we have that evidence and experience in many areas over the last 5 yrs but some don't want to learn any lessons from that. Unreal.
     
  7. Bowtech84

    Bowtech84 Well-Known Member

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    The guys that will quit hunting if things get any worse are the guys that don't have as much invested. They will simply find something else to do. The guys that spend the money on the farms, food plots, etc will be stuck with all of it including the run down deer herd. They have a lot more invested. Which makes sense why they would be more concerned about what's going on in the whitetail world. Unfortunately the deer managers in the state of Iowa are heavily out numbered by the weekend warriors and numbers will prevail. That's bad news for trophy hunters. In my area deer hunting will never again in my lifetime be what it once was and I've decided to accept that and enjoy it for what it still is. It's ironic to me though with all the bashing and people wanting to end shotgun season that now they are asking the weekend warriors to help keep crossbows out of bow season.
     
  8. CurtisWalker

    CurtisWalker Well-Known Member

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    I never said I wanted to end shotgun season. Rather said eliminate the party hunting= tag sharing. I don't get what the big deal is when it comes to that. Buy and filling your own tags is the end of the world to some people on here. You argue if I fill my tags I have to stop hunting.
    Why not buy more? Because you are scared you won't fill them? Everyone eats tag soup eventually.

    Just wanted to clear that up.
     
  9. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    The "selfish and greedy" actually create an environment where more
    Hunters want to hunt and don't quit. They create better hunting and more opportunities for
    Neighbors. The guys that reduce pressure and pass 3 yr old bucks.
    The guys that plant food plots, improve timber, care about regulation and are concerned about bad regulations.... Seems to me, most hunters want to be hunting near these "selfish guys". I wish all the guys that want more pressure during bow season for the state- I wish those folks we be forced to hunt public land. maybe they'd think the impact of too much pressure might not be a good thing.
    "Selfish and greedy guys" are actually 180 degrees the opposite in my opinion..... They GIVE to the habitat, pass young deer, keep pressure somewhat low and natural. Food plots, timber work, increasing deer Her health, conserving soil with Crp, etc. Those guys get bashed but they are the biggest GIVERS or CONTRIBUTORS to the state. Instead of guys who only want to take take take. All these guys on the "more people the better" bandwagon- I bet most like hunting near the "selfish guys" and likely most would avoid public or overpressured land if given the opportunity.

    BOWHUNTERS uniquely want to keep pressure low (selfish guys!!!) because it uniquely is the ONE season of peace and quiet. We expect chaos during gun season. Bow hunters r a breed that will fight for peace and quiet, relaxation, getting close to lower pressured naturally moving deer, etc. Bowhunters have a unique desire and "selfishness" to keep the limited time our lives allow to get in the woods and get away from the masses.
    And even masses like gun season brings. I don't want bow season to more resemble the crowds or access that gun season brings about. I want it to stay the season and peace we have now. It needs to be protected.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2014
  10. Liv4Rut

    Liv4Rut Active Member

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    I bet this thread goes on to summer since shotgun season is over and there is no shed buck season to talk about later this year.
     
  11. Sod Savage

    Sod Savage Member

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    Skip, I don't know you, but I have an idea that you are a pretty sharp fella, probably made some right decitions in life maybe laid it on the line once or twice and made some pretty good money doing something, bought some land to hunt on.

    As far as better hunting for neighbors... why because you plant turnup plots for them?How many neighbors do you even know? Do you pay taxes or is everything in timber reserve? How many of those locals do you let hunt?

    Around here the out of town landowners maybe know their neighbors across the fence maybe not, I can also tell you they contribute very little to the community and they definatly don't let the locals hunt. So who are the greedy ones? I have friends that are seriously worried about not being able to hunt because out of town landowners have been until recently the ones buying up the rec ground. Once that happens, they are done.

    I can tell you Skip, I have gone full circle, Started out of course it was 20 years ago, when we didn't have spoiled brats that expected 160 incher behind every tree, happy to just get a shot at a buck. Back when a guy was lucky to draw an any sex tag. To about 15 years ago switching to "big bucks only" to fuel my ego mostly. Next was the wow we have a thousands of deer around, whacking does donating to hush etc. to now going out and shooting what I eat. Really I just enjoying every part of hunting deer, from cutting wood for the deer shack, to vaccume packing my own processed meat. You keep letting those 3.5 year olds go Sligh, I will keep shooting them, maybe... maybe not, it just depends on how I feel that day. And who is to say that you should't let the 4.5 year olds go? How bout the 5.5 year olds? Where do you draw the line? When does that buck peak? Any more... that buck peaks when I pull the trigger.

    Everyone hunts for a different reason, I haven't been about horn size for the past two three years, and its great. I still have about the same chance as I always did at shooting a big buck but I have a lot more fun, and for me thats what its about. I am sure someday I will change how I hunt again, heck I have changed 3 or 4 times already.
     
  12. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    It isn't about me in the example, it's about the masses of guys like that across the state. Yes, I have land and impact neighbors but there's a ton of people who own anything from a 40 to a 1000 acre chunk that has the same types of impact.
    Even if the guy didn't allow one other person to hunt his land, those deer are going to go to the neighbors and give them OPPORTUNITY that would not have been there if it was a "kill em all" landowner or put way too many guys on the land than it can support. Folks who do many forms of management will create an environment that will likely benefit, heck, 2, 3, 5 different neighbors, who knows. VS something like Public land where if you hunted ground near that, your OPPORTUNITY would be far less (Which, OPPORTUNITY for hunters seems to get brought up a lot with crossbow guys so I'll speak their language for some reasoning here).

    Yes, I let locals hunt. I had one with me 2 nights ago. Had a different one hunt last night. Several through out the season. (and considering I have house there, I'm a local too ;) ) Folks with character that are careful, care about the resource, care about management and want to help manage are welcome on my farm and I have invites to them every year (there's a couple folks probably reading this post that have hunted my land). But, I choose them CAREFULLY. If I let MASSES of folks go on my land, you know what would happen??? It would be damaged, damaged badly... The neighbors would have less bucks to shoot period, less mature deer, hunt more pressured deer, etc, etc. I have different farms and probably have 10, 15 different neighbors that are impacted by what I choose to do. If i plant plots, pass bucks, don't piss pound my ground with pressure, (don't have guys all over my place doing a lot of stupid things that unfortunately the masses often do), do timber work, etc - ya, a whole lot of guys are gonna benefit, many many neighbors and dozens of hunters. Multiply that around the whole state and the guys who care and manage land are giving to the neighborhood and resource. Creating more opportunity for all since deer don't just live on "Johny's 80". However the neighbors decide to hunt, whatever they shoot- they have more opportunities. *and yes, I know almost all my neighbors pretty well. A few are from out of state and hard to keep up with & some are just hard core cattle guys but I know most of them.

    Like I said, there's a spectrum of types of management out there, Public land being on the other spectrum.... We have a choice, do we want to push the direction of ALL OF THE STATE (through regulations) toward that Public land type situation (in general, talking about more pressure, management, etc) or towards what has always made Iowa good for the most part... common sense regulations, a state which attracts folks who want to manage and create better habitat & hunting in their own neighborhood? Or even what happens now in everyday neighborhood.... Reasonable peace and quiet until Dec 5 when the shotguns are out. This alone has a big part of making Iowa, Iowa. Leave the regs alone!
    Not throwing a monkey wrench in the middle of this DELICATE & UNIQUE system we have. That's our main threats, not PETA, not EHD, not a few neighbors that don't allow you on the land (which would get worse with crossbows), etc.

    You mention problems with access..... We have a state with 5-7% timber. Access is tough in ANY STATE OUT THERE, even the crappy ones, it's hard anywhere, imagine how much harder it would be with added pressure & fewer opportunities for the masses. Add more pressure, more regs that bring more pressure, put crossbows out with all sorts of guys, etc - oh gosh, now that's the "done" end to it as you stated. Creating a better hunting environment & improved resource/management across the state is the real answer to your problems, not something like Crossbows.


    We are on the right track to recovery in our state. My fear is once it "recovers" - there's going to be a group that will see that opportunity to pimp our resource out again, put some special interest regulation in place, etc, etc and we'll go backwards. Learn from the last 5 years. We need to fight like crazy to defend our regulations and resource.

    *Yes, I pay taxes, a whole lot of them. I farm so obviously there's a lot of land right there. I pay beyond my fair share and the government does fine with what I send them. I personally think they waste most of my money but that's another topic ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2014
  13. Sod Savage

    Sod Savage Member

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    I gotcha Sli keep up the good work.
     
  14. Sevenbirdies

    Sevenbirdies Sevenbirdies

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    I picked up a crossbow this year because my 10yr old daughter wants to shoot her first deer and she's still a bit nervous to fire a gun. So we hunt 60 acres abutting some federal land and there's a few houses within a few hundred yds of our property. I feel the crossbow rule in place this yr gives us an opportunity to harvest her fist deer. We are gonna sit tonite, and her birthday is Jan 2nd, this dads hoping to post pics of her harvest tonite!
     
  15. loneranger

    loneranger Well-Known Member

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    Give this a rest. CrossBows are for children, and disabled,. Any REAL MAN, would distain them. We get it... Anyway,,someday they will be legal in Iowa and accepted. And all the Trophy Bucks won't disappear!
     
  16. kpredator

    kpredator Member

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    being an old $%@stard,I can remember when the compound came out
    many of the things being said now ,were said then.

    talk about new technology bringing more hunters,the compound sure did it.
     
  17. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    HA, I have to majorly disagree with that. Maybe they won't on the rare big land owner guys that restrict access, etc and don't let all these bone-headed regs impact them as much. News flash, even now, finding a trophy/mature buck is darn hard now. They are not all over the place. They really are somewhat of a rare animal. Buck mortality- #1 cause is hunters. Trophy bucks are rare, especially rare on "every day land" filled with a good bit of hunters. Flood those lands with vast amounts of new crossbows (40% according to crossbow Lobby that will be more effective killers).... You don't think trophy bucks won't take a MASSIVE HIT?!?!?! I've done this a long time, see what it takes to grow trophies and how rare they really are (even where there's "lots of them", they are rare) & I have no doubt, IMO, crossbows rampid across the state will in fact make a whole lot more trophy bucks or future trophies disappear. "The sky won't fall" is an extreme statement no one can argue with BUT I will hear, this would be a catastrophy for the "every day guy", at a minimum, some huge damage, IMO.
     
  18. loneranger

    loneranger Well-Known Member

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    Said I'd quite this but,,let me say you are all friends. I still disagree. Trophy is in the eye of the beholder. To me a trophy is 3 yrs old 4 or 5. Never mind the rack. I see one or two of this age a season. Maybe not the quality of other areas,,but OK to me. Crossbows take planning and set-up, close shooting. A lot of patient waiting just like other bows. Most devoted gun hunters like their range and like their guns. They will not all flood to crossBows. I have checked stats from states where they are accepted for the bow season and they represent still a small number of kills. I have a personal example of a friend who lives in a state where they are legal during all of bow. He has always been a gun hunter. He used a bow many yrs back but not much. In his area driving deer is seldom done. He sits in blinds, but he likes the long range. He like his guns. When crossbows were allowed I tried to get him into it. He got one, but does little with it. He still likes his gun season. I think most firearm hunters are like him.:)
     
  19. fletch920

    fletch920 Active Member

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    More bucks are killed with nonresident gun doe tags than you would ever lose to new crossbow hunters. Why does that issue not come up more? Party hunting will not go away, the NR doe tags for gun could. Just like they did for bow.
     
  20. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    Crossbow Lobby in other States claim an increase of "40% archery hunters" if crossbows legalized during bow & arrow season (increased revunue to state!!!) at least short term. So, I really doubt that many nr's are shooting that many bucks or have that kind of presence with doe tags & find residents to give them their tag. My opinion. *while we talk revenue, the NR doe tags are still something like $200-300 or whatever so probably take 8-10 resident crossbow hunters to equal that revenue. I think in any case- if iowa starts making regs based on REVENUE- that's where it's a downward spiral.

    "Trophy is in the eye of the beholder".... I Love that one. Ya- as kid, I was thrilled to kill a year old buck. It was a trophy. It was still immature but a trophy. IMO- grown men use that saying to justify shooting immature bucks every year. U r a jerk if u even have a discussion on age about what "his trophy is". One thing we can't argue is what makes a buck mature. 5+ and that's fairly black and white. U can get into "well some areas few deer make it to 3, so that's mature". Ok fine. But grown men can who shoot bucks every year can call a 2 yr old a trophy but if we call a spade a spade- it's an immature buck who really isn't that hard to kill. Easy for guys who don't want to "put in the time" (CROSSBOW HUNTERS by stereotype in my strong opinion). I realize some of this comes off rude or "above others". Not what I'm trying to convey. I proudly shot 1 yr olds as a new hunter. U will always be able to shoot the buck u want. I can't impact u. U can impact me though by killing off young/immature bucks I passed or would like to hunt when mature. So- u can impact me and I can't do anything about what u shoot. IMO- I think the grown men who shoot a young immature buck and quickly spout "trophy is in the eye of the beholder" are often the same that advocate "all kids get a trophy for xyz sport". "No keeping score in little league" "size doesn't matter". "I'll do what makes ME happy". I realize this is a tough subject and I don't wanna come off like a jerk but I'm just expressing my opinion & try to call a spade a spade.
    Where this fits in crossbows- Ya, we'll wipe out a lot more 2-3 yr olds but since there's still bucks around (immature), thankfully they'll still be "trophies" I guess if we measure it differently. A lack of mature bucks but some don't care. I do care. I want folks from kids shooting their 1st buck (whatever it is) to the seasoned mature buck hunter to have reasonable opportunity. IMO crossbows will hurt both those groups as well as the million other things I mentioned like access for archery land, etc, etc, etc.
     
  21. I would consider a nice petite 20 year old blonde a trophy..... Oh wait I'm off topic.
     

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