Ehd time again?

Discussion in 'Whitetail Management' started by loneranger, Aug 7, 2019.

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  1. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    .... and to the point above.... I don't think EHD is brought on any worse or any less by a drought. What a drought DOES do, is congregate deer to what water is available. Deer all have to go to the same place. Midges go from deer to deer to deer. Death.
     
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  3. 6x6

    6x6 PMA Member

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    So I’ve heard it said that some, mostly younger deer, will survive despite being exposed/bit, giving them immunity. If true, wouldn’t those deer be carriers to start the whole thing over the next summer when the new midges hatch?


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  4. JNRBRONC

    JNRBRONC Moderator

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    Deer that survive have antibodies against the virus, which provides protection from reinfection, but no longer carry the live virus.


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  5. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Personal opinion on where the research needs to go. This is my bar napkin logic from a dummy, certainly not scientific biologist level.

    How are the midges becoming carriers of EHD? If it is from biting cattle, is that proven?

    Are there any other sources of EHD?

    I don't believe we can ever control EHD at the deer level. Its just not practical; at least not on a large scale basis. They are wild animals.

    BUT, if thru research, it was determined that the cattle are carriers... i'd bet my farm that there could be an easily administered low cost vaccination developed for the cattle. I'm not a cattle man, but I assume they are getting shots anyway. If something could be developed and added to what they are already given it would be little to no burden on cattleman.

    Bottom line. Need the research. And that will never happen without money. The money will never be allocated without public outcry. Need involvement from all.
     
  6. 6x6

    6x6 PMA Member

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    That makes sense


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  7. Wi transplant

    Wi transplant PMA Member

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    I believe cattle are already vacinated otherwise we would have them dying all over also ?????

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  8. Thinkin Rut

    Thinkin Rut PMA Member

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    I wonder what the collateral damage on the motherless fawns will be... you may see a survivor doe with 6 or 8 fawns.
    They mainly just carry the disease...not as devastating to cattle, that's the problem.
     
  9. loneranger

    loneranger Well-Known Member

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    Ya think cattle farmers care about deer populations? Don’t think so. Not the ones I know.
     
  10. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    What does that have to do with anything?
     
  11. JNRBRONC

    JNRBRONC Moderator

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    Adding EHD to a cattle vaccine will increase the cost of the vaccine. Since EHD isn’t a huge problem with cattle, farmers aren’t going to pay more.


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  12. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    yeah well if the research proved that it was possible to control this, it should be a mandate, not an option. No different than any other regulation that has no direct impact on the person doing it. Or redirect some wildlife funds and give farmers the money to do it, while mandating it.

    This is all hypothetical because it is just a crazy idea, but lots of avenues that need RESEARCH.
     
  13. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    EHD & BT are in deer & cattle. Around 7 total strains. (Actually more like 20+ serotypes for BT but I think it’s 5 of prevalent In US) Cattle will carry ehd but often times be non-symptomatic. BT is more symptomatic on cattle. Both are nasty to deer.
    Antibodies can build resistance to one strain or serotype but if new ones appear - no resistance. It’s the new strains that have been moving N that have created such devastation.

    When a midge bites them & then bites a deer- transmission occurs. So yes- midges bite a virus carrier & transmit it. Ehd & BT.

    1950’s BT had 1st discovery in North America based on last link. 1960’s was 1st cases of BT in cattle. 1955 was 1st time ehd was found in Indiana and the documented cases have gone up exponentially in Midwest in last 20 years. New strains are also more problematic. Yes- cattle have the virus & midges will transmit it.

    One possibility when comes to cattle..... feeding ivermectin during late summer & fall would kill all biting insects. Once they bite- they die. It would at least stop some transmission from midge biting infected animal then infecting more. I agree - cattle folks could care less about impact to deer though.

    https://www.addl.purdue.edu/newsletters/1996/fall/ehd.shtml

    http://www.cfsph.iastate.edu/Factsheets/pdfs/bluetongue.pdf

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2989874/?
     
  14. Booner

    Booner Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately we aren't talking about a cure for cancer here. We are talking about a disease that affects whitetail deer, a wild animal, that less and less care about every year. I think if this wipes out our herd ( I'm a clarke county resident) then so be it. Plenty of fish to chase, squirrels, rabbits, quail, pheasants to hunt. It's extremely unfortunate for the guys who are so obsessed with whitetail that they've packed up their families and moved hundreds if not 1000's of miles just to live out their obsession with a 4 legged animal.

    Southern Iowa farmers could careless about the deer. Hell majority of them I work with, would just assume see them all die. Deer farmers have gobbled up every available acre here in southern Iowa; the same acres that also happen to be prime cattle grazing land. They've (deer farmers) driven up the land price of land that use to top out at $1000/acre and quadrupled the price. I doubt you're going to see too many cattle farmers play along with such a crazy idea!!!!
     
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  15. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    Agree that cattle farmers won’t play along. They could care less. Totally agree.
    U r lucky to grow up in southern iowa. I live here now & have for close to 20 years now..... Here’s a perspective from living in another place.... grow up with a total love for the outdoors- deer, fishing, rabbits, pheasants & just being outdoors non stop.....
    Then - be in a place (like MI) where the regulations, pressure, quality & amount of people is incredibly poor. Being outdoors & trying to enjoy a peaceful hunt (or fishing or whatever) with ”plenty of opportunity” & relaxing environment away from people is next to impossible. If you want to hunt a balanced deer herd with a chance at different balanced age structures- 99% of places it doesn’t exist.
    Take all that passion for outdoors, love of wildlife, love of hunting, love of conservation & inject that into someone living in a place they realize it’s never going to improve..... it’s no wonder they come to Iowa, Kansas, out west, etc. Especially someone who is outdoors every day & is a big part of their lives.
    If u took a serious & bigger analogy - u would see this is human nature & folks who understand “2 worlds”.... like someone living in a communist country who gets here and tells us “SOME of you guys have no clue how great your country is and you can’t comprehend what other hell holes are really like”. It’s how the white man got here as well- fleeing destructive, crowded, corrupt, oppressive & poorly managed places (in Europe) to come for more opportunity, quality of life & freedoms.
    Folks who have lived here all their lives & not spent time elsewhere sometimes have no clue how great they have it. Or how bad it is in 90% of other states.

    Moving to iowa while leaving “crap states behind” when it comes to outdoors & love of everything nature/outdoors is something I don’t expect most people to understand. It’s a minor & far smaller & less important example of exactly what our heritage has done for centuries though. I love way more about iowa than just “deer”. Way more. I hunt a few months out of year & im outside on farms every day it’s not deer season. If deer disappear- I would say I’d love to pheasant hunt but those dissapeared in any good # where I’m at 15-20 years ago. I do love deer hunting & there’s no other hunting that compares to the whole package & “hunting fulfillment” that keeps me enjoying it all fall. Leaves some with rabbits, turkeys, fishing. Not bad but I ain’t ok with all the deer going “by by” without a heck of a fight & hunters asking for some scraps to go into funding.
     
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  16. Daver

    Daver PMA Member

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    Although I don't disparage anyone for moving to be closer to what they enjoy spending their time and money on, whether that is surfing in the ocean, climbing in the mountains or chasing deer in Iowa...I do agree that few cattle farmers would be interested in doing anything to prevent deer from getting sick and dying. If cattle are truly the lynchpin to EHD...then I am concerned on behalf of all fellow deer hunters.
     
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  17. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    That's a pretty interesting take on a lot of levels. I understand the frustration to the second paragraph and it's likely tie to your take on the first paragraph.

    OK.... less and less people care about deer every year. I don't think there is any data to support this whatsoever. I believe what you are trying to get at is the fact that there are less and less hunters. That may be true, but even the most left wing people out there that despise hunting like having deer around. Almost all people like deer (except some farmers) and all wild animals for that matter. So, if thru research, there was something COST EFFECTIVE that could be done, I believe most people would support it. This is not unique to deer. The United States, has a strong history of wildlife conservation whether they are a "hunted animal" or not.

    Cattle farmer's playing along with this crazy idea. First of all, this is an idea that likely wouldn't even work. But its an idea. The more ideas the better. Second, your right cattle farmers wouldn't want to play along... but they WOULDN'T need to. Say there was a vaccine found. It just gets added to whatever cattle already get. Zero more effort required by farmers. Added cost.... let the wildlife side pay for it. I have no problem with that.

    So, yes I love deer. I also love rabbits, fish, eagles, and creatures of all manner. Nature... It's worth protecting. Humans have had such an impact on the ecosystem that just letting things "play out" is very much in the rear view mirror. We have a responsibility to help things along and keep balance when called for.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
  18. Muskrat24

    Muskrat24 Active Member

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    Answer me this. IF the cattle are to blame why are there still deer in Texas, OK and so on where these "infected" southern cattle are from?? Oh, just maybe it is because deer do survive and build resistance. Southern Canada has documented cases of EHD which are blamed on strong southern winds pushing infected midges across the line. Any chance the same winds could have pushed "southern" midges into Iowa? Very likely. Any chance that overpopulated areas of deer cause a faster spread? Again very likely. Has anyone ever heard of distemper in raccoons? Devastates local coon populations but they come back and so have the deer in areas that were hit hard by EHD in 2012. This current round stinks I agree but the deer will not be lost forever. I'd like to know how many on this thread bashing the cattle hunt with permission on land with cattle.... :)
     
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  19. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    7 different serotypes or strains of ehd/BT that are prevalent in US. Down south has had most of those types since EHD/BT started to become prevalent in last 50-60 years. Over that time, many deer in south produced antibodies to most of these strains and could build tolerance too them. Over time (decades) - the southern serotypes/strains migrated N. One could easily argue: Warming temps, natural spread of a growing disease, movement & transport of cattle from down south to North, etc. All likely. Nothing we can do about that.
    I don’t know if TX deer are “ok”. I would imagine they don’t have as wide spread devastation as they’ve had decades to build resistance. Possibly. The likely outcome for us is it may take massive outbreaks & die off’s & those same decades to build resistance. I’m not quite sure.
     
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  20. Fishbonker

    Fishbonker Life Member

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    Maybe overlay a rainfall map with the map of reported EHD cases?

    EHD 9-19.jpg

    This map is as of the 12th.

    Not so fun facts to know and tell:

    1181 reported suspect cases in 36 counties.

    The reported cases were higher during this reporting period than earlier periods. (past 5 weeks so I would assume the outbreak continues to worsen)

    Sick and freshy dead deer were observed throughout the outbreak area.

    Specific areas of counties most affected:

    Northern Warren, northwest Monroe, central, east central and southeast Clarke, East and around Pammel State Park in Madison, southern and mainly southeast Decatur, west central and immediately south of Stephens State Forrest in in Lucas, Red Rock and southeast Marion, southwest Des Moines.

    On another note, there has been some questions about what has changed to create this problem. I don't have an answer but perhaps an observation. The grandkids were out a few days ago. Dragon flies were everywhere. More than I've ever seen. One of the grandkids asked what dragon flies eat. I didn't know so I googled it. Dragon flies eat small bugs including mosquitos and midges, and they eat a lot. If you have a healthy population of dragon flies you have clean water. So two things, thing #1 perhaps current agricultural practices have decreased dragon fly populations through pesticide usage and thing #2 perhaps current agricultural practices have decreased dragon fly populations due to unnecessary soil tillage that increases run off and water turbidity. Someone asked for out of the box thinking, how about we import dragon flies into the endemic areas to see if EHD can be controlled through biotic measures? Or maybe reduce pesticide usage and improve tillage practices.
     
  21. Matthewfox_45

    Matthewfox_45 Active Member

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    I’m counting my lucky stars. Was at the farm I hunt in southern warren county today getting ready for youth season. No new dead deer found. Only found 4 on or near the farm. Hopefully weathered the storm so to speak.
     

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