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HF 2108 .410 for turkey hunting

After thinking about it more and hearing others responses, I think this seems like a reasonable bill that will help get kids in the turkey woods.
 
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My son age 6 at the time killed his first two turkeys back where I am from in Nebraska with a .410, killed two more the next year out there all with one shot and killed them dead. The farthest one at 26 yards. I didn't let him hunt turkeys in Iowa until he was 8 because of the 20 gauge minimum rule even though he was ready to hunt them at 6.

He simply would not have handled the recoil of a 20 gauge at that age. I think the .410 is a very formidable hunting weapon as long as you know how it is patterned and what yardage you are shooting at. I haven't lived here my whole life so I have no idea why it is not allowed but I don't think this is a bad amendment to the law.

I highly doubt many adults are going to go out and purchase a .410 just to shoot turkeys so I don't think it is coming from the gun makers just to make a buck. Hopefully it is coming because someone has the youth in mind and thinks it might just get a kid started on hunting.
 
I do agree with this one more than the rifle one from a few days ago so I might not send emails.

And I agree with you Gundog, this is definitely one to get youth more involved. I'm imagining the same people/person who proposed this bill proposed HF2047 (allowing youth to shoot rifles). Some kids aren't ready to handle a 20 gauge when they are "mature" enough to hunt (myself when I was younger - I didn't hunt turkeys/deer until I was 9 because of the recoil).
 
I do agree with you on the rifle proposal for youth. I didn't kill a turkey until I was 12 or a deer until I was 14 but that was because it was Nebraska State Law back then with age limitations. Now my son can hunt either for $6 and a habitat stamp as a non-resident back home.
 
Seems OK as long as the mentor doesn't stretch the distance too far. I don't know enough about a 410 as I have not shot one. But, seems like the effective range is well under that of a 20 gauge.
 
No offense intended to those dads that have their kids shooting big game at a very young age, but I am not in favor making the .410 change. If a child is not able to handle a "big gun" then they should wait until they can IMO. We need to respect the game too.

Certainly some young kids will be able to bag a tom with a .410, but I suspect there will also be plenty of unrecovered birds too with that gauge.

In my experience, it is not necessary for a young child to kill a big game animal...with the dad/adult doing all, or nearly, of the "work" other than pulling the trigger. My boys had super great times hunting with dad for several years prior to them carrying a gun.

I am not persuaded that one has to kill in order to enjoy the outdoors and if they do...then something else "shinier" will likely catch their attention in a few years anyway. I say start them with a BB gun or .22 on smaller game...there's plenty of time to graduate to big game later.
 
Daver said:
No offense intended to those dads that have their kids shooting big game at a very young age, but I am not in favor making the .410 change. If a child is not able to handle a "big gun" then they should wait until they can IMO. We need to respect the game too.

Certainly some young kids will be able to bag a tom with a .410, but I suspect there will also be plenty of unrecovered birds too with that gauge.

In my experience, it is not necessary for a young child to kill a big game animal...with the dad/adult doing all, or nearly, of the "work" other than pulling the trigger. My boys had super great times hunting with dad for several years prior to them carrying a gun.

I am not persuaded that one has to kill in order to enjoy the outdoors and if they do...then something else "shinier" will likely catch their attention in a few years anyway. I say start them with a BB gun or .22 on smaller game...there's plenty of time to graduate to big game later.
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Agreed. Not a fan of this or the stands available to hold the gun on a swivel. The time will come. Aren't we trying to tech them patients as a big part of hunting? I am.
 
410 will kill a turkey just fine. I want my kids out there with a gun they're ok shooting. Can't shoot em at 50 yards but oh well.
 
Daver,

I agree with a lot of your points on the hunt should be more fun than the kill and just the time together as a father/son or daughter should be the point along with having the respect for the game you are hunting whether big or small game.

I would politely argue the plenty of unrecovered birds from the 410. Yes the 410 has its limitations on range for the most knock down power it can produce but so does the 12 gauge. I can see and have seen instances where hunters might try to stretch that 12 gauge out to 60 even 70 yards on a hung up bird. Yes they can probably kill a turkey at that range but you bring a higher probability of just wounding that bird the same.

It comes down to the handler of the gun, the mentor of the youth hunter having them prepared on how to handle the gun and when to shoot. We all know this, I just don't see a reason they should not be legal for turkey hunting when they are well capable of killing the bird.
 
Gundog said:
Daver,

I agree with a lot of your points on the hunt should be more fun than the kill and just the time together as a father/son or daughter should be the point along with having the respect for the game you are hunting whether big or small game.

I would politely argue the plenty of unrecovered birds from the 410. Yes the 410 has its limitations on range for the most knock down power it can produce but so does the 12 gauge. I can see and have seen instances where hunters might try to stretch that 12 gauge out to 60 even 70 yards on a hung up bird. Yes they can probably kill a turkey at that range but you bring a higher probability of just wounding that bird the same.

It comes down to the handler of the gun, the mentor of the youth hunter having them prepared on how to handle the gun and when to shoot. We all know this, I just don't see a reason they should not be legal for turkey hunting when they are well capable of killing the bird.
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Fair enough, we see it a little differently, but I certainly appreciate having a polite disagreement. :D
 
Gundog said:
Daver,

I agree with a lot of your points on the hunt should be more fun than the kill and just the time together as a father/son or daughter should be the point along with having the respect for the game you are hunting whether big or small game.

I would politely argue the plenty of unrecovered birds from the 410. Yes the 410 has its limitations on range for the most knock down power it can produce but so does the 12 gauge. I can see and have seen instances where hunters might try to stretch that 12 gauge out to 60 even 70 yards on a hung up bird. Yes they can probably kill a turkey at that range but you bring a higher probability of just wounding that bird the same.

It comes down to the handler of the gun, the mentor of the youth hunter having them prepared on how to handle the gun and when to shoot. We all know this, I just don't see a reason they should not be legal for turkey hunting when they are well capable of killing the bird.
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I am not much for turkey hunting but have shot a .410 a fair amount and I have to agree. They do plenty of damage. Plenty of people shoot deer to far with bows for sure, even guns. I am not in favor or pushing things on kids and making it super easy but a .410 packs a punch and if they can hold it and handle it its effective. Outlaw field pods for the able bodied makes more sense to me.
 
Daver said:
No offense intended to those dads that have their kids shooting big game at a very young age, but I am not in favor making the .410 change. If a child is not able to handle a "big gun" then they should wait until they can IMO. We need to respect the game too.

Certainly some young kids will be able to bag a tom with a .410, but I suspect there will also be plenty of unrecovered birds too with that gauge.

In my experience, it is not necessary for a young child to kill a big game animal...with the dad/adult doing all, or nearly, of the "work" other than pulling the trigger. My boys had super great times hunting with dad for several years prior to them carrying a gun.

I am not persuaded that one has to kill in order to enjoy the outdoors and if they do...then something else "shinier" will likely catch their attention in a few years anyway. I say start them with a BB gun or .22 on smaller game...there's plenty of time to graduate to big game later.
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I don't have much of an opinion on the 410 deal but I do agree with Daver here. I think at times there might be a bit of a push to get these kids behind the gun asap. All kids are different, some are ready and willing at a much younger age than others.
My 12 yr old daughter is a little on the scrawny side. She has not deer hunted yet cause she is afraid of the gun , although she will shoot my old 410. She was with me in the stand when I shot my bow buck this year and it was a great memory for both of us. I am hoping she decides she is ready for youth season next year but if not, I'm ok with that too. I don't push it, I'm in no hurry for her to grow up anyway.
 
hillrunner said:
I don't have much of an opinion on the 410 deal but I do agree with Daver here. I think at times there might be a bit of a push to get these kids behind the gun asap. All kids are different, some are ready and willing at a much younger age than others.
My 12 yr old daughter is a little on the scrawny side. She has not deer hunted yet cause she is afraid of the gun , although she will shoot my old 410. She was with me in the stand when I shot my bow buck this year and it was a great memory for both of us. I am hoping she decides she is ready for youth season next year but if not, I'm ok with that too. I don't push it, I'm in no hurry for her to grow up anyway.
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Your message reminded me of something that happened to my younger son, the one that is now a straight up hunting nut! He was fairly neutral on hunting up until he was around 10-12 years old. I mostly did not make him go with me...except I did tell him that since he was my son, he had to go with me once per year.

So on one of those outings I had hung two stands and we were right next to each other in a tree when I asked him if he wanted to try rattling in a buck. (That was me being sneaky because I knew he was hyper and eager enough to do anything action oriented. The associated raucous noise of the clashing antlers was just a bonus! :D) I handed him the antlers and with a big smile on his face, he went to town and I'll be darned...here comes a nice buck!

He put on a great show for us inside of 10 yards and I elected not to shoot him as I judged him to be a 3 year old, and he eventually trotted off on his own. About a half hour later...I let him rattle again...and here comes another buck, one I would have shot, but he never gave me the angle I wanted, so he too moved off after awhile.

I was a bit concerned following that action that he may be discouraged that "we" didn't get one. However, I will remember until my dying day what he said once we were both on the ground following the hunt. "That was FUN!". and that day, a lifelong diehard hunter was born.

There are many ways to get kids into the outdoors.
 
Anymore with DSD decoys and all the birds at 6 yards, I wish I had a 410 in the blind for my buddies. Just doesn't seem right shooting them with a 3.5inch 12 gauge that close. 410 would be just fine.
 
I could see using my Mom's single shot 3" .410 to turkey hunt, just out of nostalgia. Probably be a one time thing, just to say I did it. Haven't gun hunted turkey since a trip to SD a few years ago, then I took the single shot 12 gauge I bought in 1975.
 
I know this is not necessarily the topic of the thread but after reading some of the responses, I'd be curious to hear a few of you elaborate on why you disagree with the use of 'field pods'. I would personally use one if I felt like blowing the money. I won't, however, but that's neither here nor there. I use a bipod when muzzleloader hunting and my 8 and 10 yr olds both shot their 1st deer with the same setup this year. The improvement in accuracy is phenomenal and I think it could be argued that this accuracy improvement is in the best interest of the animals (as well as my kids). The gun is adult sized and frankly, too heavy for them to handle without a rest. I chose this route over purchasing a youth model, which they could handle much easier.

Not trying to argue that my way is the right way, just looking for some better understanding. I'll make no apologies for putting my kids behind the gun but admittedly, Davers post did make me think a bit. Difference here being both kids played a much larger role than just pulling a trigger.
 
DannyBoy said:
I know this is not necessarily the topic of the thread but after reading some of the responses, I'd be curious to hear a few of you elaborate on why you disagree with the use of 'field pods'. I would personally use one if I felt like blowing the money. I won't, however, but that's neither here nor there. I use a bipod when muzzleloader hunting and my 8 and 10 yr olds both shot their 1st deer with the same setup this year. The improvement in accuracy is phenomenal and I think it could be argued that this accuracy improvement is in the best interest of the animals (as well as my kids). The gun is adult sized and frankly, too heavy for them to handle without a rest. I chose this route over purchasing a youth model, which they could handle much easier.

Not trying to argue that my way is the right way, just looking for some better understanding. I'll make no apologies for putting my kids behind the gun but admittedly, Davers post did make me think a bit. Difference here being both kids played a much larger role than just pulling a trigger.
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I'll bite, and am not going to try and change your mind as I am sure we are far apart on this. My feeling is if the gun is to big then it's not time. My oldest son can shoot a cricket, but not a .410. He can shoot a small light bow but not mine, or a mid level youth bow. Should I then invent some way for him to shoot a bow made for a grown man? They have that, its called a crossbow. I don't think a bi pod or shooting sticks or a tree branch are the same as a device that only requires you to point and pull the trigger. Might be a good way to practice, but not to hunt in my eyes. I want my kids to be able to fully handle and function a firearm or archery equipment for safety sake. I don't feel rushing them out is the right way. Patience is a huge part of hunting, and maybe the most important part. I feel they need to be able to handle, safely handle every aspect of the weapon from start to finish before they hunt with it. A good foundation will support them if they continue hunting as they get older.
 
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