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Iowa Permit to Carry weapons Courses

I

IAJack

New Member
Hello,

First post here. I am one of the founding members of Iowa Carry who helped to enact the "shall issue" permit to carry weapons law here in Iowa. I have been an NRA Certified Pistol Instructor for 10 years and am now giving classes that meet the required training towards the Iowa Permit to Carry Weapons.

Under the new law that goes into effect in Jan. everyone will My need to either take a course or shoot for qualification regardless of having a current permit or applying for a new permit. No shooting test is required for a new permit.

My course is around 4 hours in length with no live fire required. I cover a lot on the legal and liability aspects of carrying a weapon.

I would be glad to try to answer any questions and my full course schedule can be viewed on my website at:

www.hawkeyefirearmsinstruction.com
 
Shall issue.....w/ strings attached.

I've already live fired & taken a class w/ a written test. Passed both. Now I've got to pay a teacher to do it again?
 
I personally think it is crap that you have to have a permitt at all to have a concealed gun. If it is legal for me to own it I should be able to carrry it. I have recently heard that a lot of the southern states are trying to do away with the concealed weapons permitt. Mr. Jack, I beleive that is the type of law you should be fighting for, not making it harder and more expensive for law abidding citizens to carry. IMO.
 
ARbowhtr said:
I personally think it is crap that you have to have a permitt at all to have a concealed gun. If it is legal for me to own it I should be able to carrry it. I have recently heard that a lot of the southern states are trying to do away with the concealed weapons permitt. Mr. Jack, I beleive that is the type of law you should be fighting for, not making it harder and more expensive for law abidding citizens to carry. IMO.
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Hang on a second, ARb, the law that IA Jack fought so hard for replaces an antiquated system where the county sheriff got to say who did and who didn’t get to carry concealed weapons. There were several instances where living 10 feet farther in one direction got you a permit and living 10 feet in the other direction got you denied.

I must admit I am not 100% familiar with the new law so I don’t have any idea on shooting requirements etc, the county I’m from went from a “may” to a “shall” with the election of a new sheriff a year or so ago. It does kinda suck that if you already have a valid permit to carry you need to go through the classes again.

Remember, incrementalism works both ways. This new law maybe the first step towards open carry.
 
Remember, incrementalism works both ways. This new law maybe the first step towards open carry.
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Exactly Fishbonkers small steps lead you down the road to better times. Keep up the good work Jack.
 
Sorry, I didn't know the current law was so bad and unfair. and i agree with you on the baby steps. Again, sorry IA Jack.
 
Arizona has always been an open carry state and, until this spring, a permit was required for concealed carry. Its a right-to-carry state and any law-abiding citizen that can pass a background check (clean record) could get a concealed carry permit (couldn't be told no). I've had my permit for 10 years and watched the requirements to get a permit and renew a permit get less and less. I'm all for an individual's right to carry and protect themselves; however, I fully supported the classes mainly because of the instruction in the laws to carry and laws regarding self defense. I can't speak to IA's laws anymore since I haven't lived there in 13 years, but I do know AZ's laws and the thought of people carrying a firearm without knowing what the laws are really scares me. For example (all AZ examples), one cannot simply point a firearm at someone and threaten to shoot them in self defense (unless the brandish a knife or firearm). That's automatic assault with a deadly weapon. If you shoot someone in the leg or arm in self defense, it proves (again, according to AZ law) intent to wound and its aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. I've sat in classes and heard first time carriers and firearm owners say flat out "I'd just shoot them in the leg to stop them because I don't really want to kill anyone." The classes I've taken (TX and AZ) also discourage head shots in self defense because it shows you took the time to think and aim; always point and shoot center-mass, which shows you are just trying to stop a threat. On top of that, AZ also made it legal to carry concealed firearms into bars, although those carrying are not supposed to be drinking. I wonder who is regulating that and checking. That scares me as much: guns, alcohol, and ignorance of the laws of self defense. So, and mainly for newcomers, I think the classes and training in the laws alone, are worth the effort. For people like Handcannon, Cedar Creek, and others who have been carrying forever and know the laws, I think the classes could easily be overkill and unnecessary.

This is just a different perspective from someone who lives in an open carry state that just did away with the concealed carry permit requirement. You can always argue that the criminals don't care about the laws and are carrying everywhere, but then I would also argue that we're not criminals, we're law-abiding citizens striving to defend ourselves and our firearms rights.
 
The question is, why should individuals that have already taken the course to carry a concealed weapon have to retake the course again? This is something that doesn't make sense and it makes it difficult to support the direction we are going.
 
I do not have a permit to carry but if I did I guess I would probably feel the same about taking the class over, however, I would be relived that the law passed enabling law abiding citizens across the state to carry who never could before (do to “may issue”). Maybe the thinking was, at the time the bill was being debated; that there would be a huge influx of new permit holders and it would be best to start everybody in the state on the same page so to speak. I dunno, just trying to reason out loud.

The ‘Bonker
 
Maybe one more thing to think about, with the new law those of you who have current permits should never have to worry about a new sheriff denying your permits in the future. Perhaps in that light taking the class over is a small price to pay? Again, I don't know why you have to take the class I'm just throwing out ideas.

The 'Bonker
 
I will do what is required to be able to carry. Seems like a new "tax" for those of us that have already been approved & already taken a class.

It would be like sending all drivers license renewers to drivers ed again (which may not be a bad idea). Come to think of it, cars kill more people than guns everyday. And anyone from 14 until death can drive a car.

Instead of just having to pay to renew the permit, we now have to pay for a class also? I don't care about the $, it just seems like a sneaky way for uncle sam to drain the citizen of more $.

I don't mind paying some taxes. But I can't stand sending my tax $ overseas to places like pakistan & other countries that can't stand us anyways. This is the greatest country on earth & it's deteriorating from the inside...starting w/ obama, news media, judges that legislate from the bench, & any politician that ignores the people they represent. :mad: I didn't intend go here...but here I am :way:
 
Sorry it has been a while since I checked back here.

I understand some of the animosity towards re-training from persons who have had their permits for a while. Along with that though I have had a lot of calls from "old timers" who have had their permits for several years who have never had a proper instruction on the laws. Knowing when you can an cannot use deadly force, your liability and where you can an cannot carry are important. My classes aren't to teach anyone how to shoot they are about keeping people safe and within the law. I dont think a refresher course on safety or keeping safe is ever a bad idea for anyone.

Until we got this new law passed Iowa was a patchwork of laws depending on the county and the Sheriff. Some sheriffs like mine in Mahaska County would not issue at all or only to his buddies. The new law essentially ends 99 years of Jim Crow discrimination when it comes to who can and cannot get a permit. The retraining part is part of the new law because of that variance from county to county. Some counties have always given a good thorough course while others have had only a handshake before issuing a permit.

The good part is that the new permit issued after Jan. will be valid for 5 years and still valid as a purchase permit. No more annual renewals.

I would like to see our rights restored even further but from where we came from this is a huge first step. I don't care if you take my class or another but I advise people to seek the best level of training they can. After all what is your life worth?

PS: The cost of a new 5 year permit is $50 and a renwal is $25. Training can now be taken anywhere as long as it is from a certified instructor. So really the state doesnt get anymore than they did before as the cost id over a 5 year period. Another game some Sheriffs like to play when the training was up to them was to simply not offer the class or to only conduct it once a year.
 
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I also forgot to add. If anyone has a current permit that expires sometime next year (2011) then you have the option to renew for a 5 year permit by EITHER taking a shooting qualification test OR taking the class again.

Also open carry with a permit is legal under the new law. It actually always has been but now they cannot yank your permit because you upset the Sheriff. While strongly advise against open carry it is tecnically not illegal.

Here is the FAQ sheet from the DPS on the new law.

http://www.dps.state.ia.us/asd/SF2379_FAQ_Version1_0.pdf
 
QUESTION: What are the training requirements for a new Iowa professional or nonprofessional permit to carry weapons?
ANSWER:
• Completion of any National Rifle Association (NRA) handgun safety training course.
• Completion of any handgun safety training course available to the general public offered by a law enforcement agency,
community college, college, private or public institution or organization, or firearms training school, utilizing instructors
certified by the National Rifle Association or certain other firearms training certifying bodies (such as the Iowa Law
Enforcement Academy).
• Completion of any handgun safety training course offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any
division or subdivision of a law enforcement or security enforcement agency approved by the Iowa Department of Public
Safety.
• Completion of small arms training while serving with the armed forces of the United States as evidenced by any of the
following:
o For personnel released or retired from active duty, possession of an honorable discharge or general discharge under
honorable conditions.
o For personnel on active duty or serving in one of the national guard or reserve components of the armed forces of
the United States, possession of a certificate of completion of basic training with a service record of successful
completion of small arms training and qualification.
• Completion of a law enforcement agency firearms training course that qualifies a peace officer to carry a firearm in the
normal course of the peace officer's duties.


You forgot the rest of 724.9

2. Evidence of qualification under this section may be
documented by any of the following:
a. A photocopy of a certificate of completion or any
similar document indicating completion of any course or class
identified in subsection 1.
b. An affidavit from the instructor, school, organization,
or group that conducted or taught a course or class identified
in subsection 1 attesting to the completion of the course or
class by the applicant.
c. A copy of any document indicating participation in any
firearms shooting competition.

Those of us that already carry have this documentation.
 
Handcannon, relax man...Ia Jack and the Iowa Firearms Coalition did a lot of work and put in a lot of their own time to get the current bill passed. As said before its a 5 year permit. At the end of those 5 years and with continued support the IFC with the help of the NRA will undoubtably work on tweaking the law. We need to stand together...
 
From the FAQ linked above:

QUESTION: What are the training requirements for the renewal of an Iowa professional or nonprofessional permit to carry weapons?

ANSWER: For renewal of a permit, the training program requirements for a new Iowa professional or nonprofessional permit to carry weapons shall apply or the renewal applicant may choose to qualify on a firing range under the supervision of an instructor certified by the National Rifle Association or certain other firearms training certifying bodies (such as the Iowa Law Enforcement Academy). Such training or qualification must occur within the twelve-month period prior to the expiration of the applicant's current permit.
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If you have a permit already you need to have some kind of training within a year or your expiration date to be able to renew! Don't take my word for it but let me know how that works out for you when you go to renew next year Handcannon
 
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724.11 Issuance of permit to carry weapons.
1. Applications for permits to carry weapons shall be made
to the sheriff of the county in which the applicant resides.
Applications for professional permits to carry weapons
for persons who are nonresidents of the state, or whose need
to go armed arises out of employment by the state, shall be
made to the commissioner of public safety. In either case,
the sheriff or commissioner, before issuing the
permit, shall determine that the requirements of sections
724.6 to 724.10 have been satisfied. However, for renewal of
a permit the training program requirements in section 724.9 subsection 1, shall apply
or the renewal applicant may choose to qualify on a firing
range under the supervision of an instructor certified by the
national rifle association or the department of public safety
or another state's department of public safety, state police
department, or similar certifying body. Such training or
qualification must occur within the twelve=month period prior
to the expiration of the applicant's current permit.


This applies to non-residents & professional permits???


http://coolice.legis.state.ia.us/Legislation/83rdGA/enrolled/sf2379.html
 
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