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Making changes/what first?

ironwood

Active Member
To set this up my son's and I have been shooting for about a 1 1/2 years. We hunted last season and had a few missed opportunities, but are completely hooked. I am considering what I can do to improve my skills between now and next fall. I've just read an article in Bowhunting Magazine and though I'd try to make some changes. The bow I am shooting was bought used and I am shooting it just as it was setup with the exception of an added release loop on the string. The arrows are 340’s with 100 grain tips and I am using a high quality trigger style release.

Here is a list of things I am considering changing:
- new lighter arrows
- switching to a back tension release
- switching from three pins to a single pin on sights
- working on form from a stand

Let me know what you think. I am getting some advice from a local shop as well and wanted to use the resource or knowledge of you Iowawhitetailers.
 
ironwood,
What is the draw weight on your bow? Is it a single cam? What is your draw length?

There are a few things I would try first before you go out and spend a bunch of money on equipment. Your trigger release should be fine I have used one for years and love them (great for hunting situations). The biggest thing you can do is shoot from your tree stand and work on your form. If your bow is set up correctly and arrows are spined right any set-up will shoot bullet holes. As much as a gadget freak as I am I will be the first to admit that good shooters can shoot any bow that is set up right.
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Ironwood, depending on the draw weight of your Havoc (right?) you may have a little stiffer spine arrow than necassary. I shoot Beman 340 ICS and hunt with a pulling weight of 62lbs. Now the Beman charts say I should shoot a 400 arrow but with the new cam 1/2 Hoyt bows a little stiffer goes a long way. Like Limb stated if your set-up is in proper tune and you shoot bullets I would not touch a thing. Back tension-although some hunters use it, most hunt w/ triggers. There is an excellent article in this months Peterson's Bowhunting on setting up your trigger and shooting back tension style (using 2nd or 3rd finger instead of index) As for the single pin it's a lot less confusing when the moment of truth arrives. The best advice I have is go to several 3d shoots with your family (you may change your mind on the single pin). These things are a blast and most that attend are like you/me (hunters) not the high profile shooters that most people associate with at competitions. Once you try one you'll be searching the IBA web-site for when the next one is. By the end of summer you will be shooting like a mad-man. Have fun.
 
Limb And Rudd, I am shooting 2000 Havoc with 28.5 inch draw length and a weight something just under or at 65lbs. It is a single cam bow and I like shooting it. Also, I thought about a level sight because the Havoc is so short.
The arrows are a Beman hunter ICS 340 and I have six in good condition and 12 more that look pretty wore out but do they loose anything with time and number of shots taken. The article I read said the tension release would make me a rock solid steady shooter! I’ll hold off on that one for now. I will be putting a stand up in the back yard for the boys and me to practice out of and will be trying to make several 3-d events here in central Iowa.

Keep em coming.
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The key to your question as I see it is " I want to improve my skills". You didn't say what happened on the missed opprotunities, but I doubt that it was equipment related. In my experience the more you start to tinker the more things go bad. Have a shop check the tuning on your setup and as long as you are getting god arrow flight leave it alone. Then it is up to you to practice to improve your skill. Shoot every chance you can. Go to 3D shoots, buy a couple 3D targets, shoot from the ground and up on a step ladder, shoot from your tree stands. Just get used to everything and make it fun. If you can spend an hour 3 or 4 times a week shooting and having fun with your boys , your skill level will have to go up. This is one of the great things about traditional archery equipment, there aren't a lot of gadgets so the only way to get better is to shoot more. Not such a bad thing.
 
ironwood,
How were you shooting at practice before your missed opportunities? Confidence is a huge thing for me, and the only way to gain it is by shooting alot. Another thing would be the choke factor. You can work on your form and practice alot but when that deer is 10 yards from your set up things change. Every hunter handles it in different ways. I use the"something is going to happen that I won't get a shot off" strategy, relieving some of the pressure. I follow that by thinking pin-on after getting pulled back.
Good Luck
 
Ironwood, Havoc is a GREAT treestand bow. If your 340's do not have any visual defects (hairline cracks) They will last a very long time. My personal opinion is that the ICS is one of the best shafts for hunting. I usually shoot the Beman Hawks for 3ding and save the ICS's. Especially if your boys are competetive....they will be trying to slam Dad's arrows. If you are speaking of a "sight level" I reccomend one as well. The Havoc is short axle to axle and a fairly short brace height. The Level will help keep everything in sink. If your in my neck of the woods (Montezuma, near Lake Ponderosa/Diamond) stop by for a shoot. They dates are posted on the IBA website under Poweshiek County Sportsmans Assoc.
 
Thanks for the invite Ruddbow. The missed opportunities where simply mistakes. I cut a pretty good one across the top of the back. Part of the problem on that one was nerves. Another part of the problem was not knowing actual yardage because he came clear at 28 yards (known distance) and unexpectedly turn right and closed the distance more. I still thought 28 and used the 30 yard pin. I also suspect that I may not have bent at the waists. I'll be putting the time in and do shoot respectfully when practicing. My son had a mouth call in his mouth and slapped it out when he released. I don't think I'll tell you which boy that was, but we've had a few laughs over that. Experience!! We're getting it; some is just coming the hard way.
 
Speaking of staying in the stand.

Last years buck I harvested w/ a bow was the first I ever took over a decoy. It was not the biggest buck I've ever harvested, but I unfastened my safety strap and actually was climbing out of my stand as the deer was going down because I knew I was going to fall out of my stand. When I hit the ground, he was in his death throws. I usually stay pretty calm before the shot, but after, it's hard telling what kind of a convulsion I may go into!

Buck fever is awesome!

Unfortunately those lessons learned sometimes come from the school of hard knocks.

Good luck w/your new setups.
Pupster

Limb, You have shot some dandy deer for only being at this for 7yrs. Must just come natural!
 
Limb, I can’t describe how rattled the whole thing made me. This deer was pasting in the trees at about 150 yards more or less and I gave him a few grunts but he appeared to ignore me and kept passing until he was out of sight. At that point I turned and grabbed one of my rattling horns as they hung from a hook behind me, rattled lightly then turned back around to watch for him. With in 2 minutes he was back in view. I hit that grunt call a little harder and he was coming in. That alone about made me fill my duds. Then he stopped and was looking around in my general direction so I hit the call again. Holy cow, he came so fast and I was so so so so so shook up that I barely got my release hooked up and he was coming clear at that 28 yard mark I mentioned earlier. Here is another mistake I made. I did not try and stop him! I though I could get it done with him moving and I regret that move very much.
 
Buck Fever or whatever.....called it what you will. But when I stop getting that feeling, when a mature buck is near, is the day I quit bowhunting. And I don't see that happening until they pull my cold dead hands off the riser.

The more deer you are around and the more time spent bowhunting, the more you will become "AUTOMATIC".
 
Oh, almost forgot
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all the way home. Not a good bedtime story.
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If you ask to many more question I may need some medication after revisiting this in such detail.
 
Ironwood,

Since you guys are swapping bad shooting stories, here's one for you. Biggest buck I've ever shot at...about 10 years ago. I played cat and mouse with a doe he was following for over an hour. I finally won, and she settled down and walked into an opening. The buck followed, and before I could get off a shot he began to breed her right in front of me. Didn't figure I should shoot at a thrusting target, so I decided I'd shoot as soon as he hopped down. I had a 20 and a 30 yard pin, and was sure the distance was only a bit over 20. Unfortunately, in the heat of the moment I used the 30 yard pin mistakenly. As soon as his front feet came down off of her back I settled behind his shoulder and watched my arrow shave hair off the top of his back. Sat in the stand for over an hour after dark with my head in my hands. I then climbed down to step it off at 23 yards
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I've been using one pin ever since.

Finally, in my opinion good shooting is first and foremost about being able to hold your bow arm steady. Strength is a factor here, so the more you shoot the stronger those muscles will get and the steadier you'll be able to hold. Good luck!

NWBuck
 
My first screw up was when a nice 8 point came in and I went to draw and my glasses were so fogged up I couldn't see to shoot. The next one was where did that little branch come from. The next one was who moved my nock on my string? That's about the extent of mine.
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Let me tell you a bitter story on November 11 1999 I had traveled back to my home town as I got word of my 71 year grandfathers death. So I packed up my good clothes and hunting clothes and made the trip home. I figured with the funeral not being until Nov 15 I would find a morning and an evening or 2 to sit in a treestand I made out of an old pallet and hoisted up in a tree when I was 15 years old. Since there was no time to scout real good and hang a stand I figured I would sit in "old reliable."
So on Nov 14 I made it to the tree and there he was a 150-160 BEAUTIFUL 8-pointer with a big pearl white rack it was getting dark and he was working his way across a creek bottom with 3 does. I would never have guessed I could have grunted him away from those does but I figured what the hay. So after about 6-8 grunts here he comes at about 50 yards out he stopped and stood there until past dark. So after that happened and the death and all I didn't think I could feel any lower. Wait until the next morning.
So on Nov 15(also my birthday)with the funeral not until 11 o'clock I figured I would go after old "White tines" so as the sun was half way up here comes 8 does and the last one had her tongue hanging out so I knew she had been chased so all stopped right under my tree and here comes old white tines bringing up the rear I knew I had this deer as he got within 15 yards of my tree he made a beeline for that one doe and chased her as they were getting out past my 20 yard pin I tried to stop them with that grunt call that I blew on the night before.You guessed it !! The call had frozen in my Blazer overnight and I never warmed it up that morning. When I blew into that call it sounded like I stepped on a cat and every deer including white tines looked right me. As I touched the trigger old white tines jumped that string so far ahead of the shot all I collected was a patch of old white tines back hair. As I sat there on that cold heartless morning I vowed I would never bowhunt again!!
With a death in the family and running out of time the night before I was owed that buck. How can a sport be so gut wrenching and rip your heart out and throw it out of a tree and step on it.
After I went to the funeral and the lunch and made the drive home I was down and out. I would get over it right? Because time heals all wounds and I would never bowhunt again so I would not have to go through that again right? Wrong!! 2 days later I was back in the woods and filled my tag with a nice plump doe for the freezer.
With 2 P&Y bucks since 1999 I still HATE this heartbreaking and gut wrenching sport we call Iowa bowhunting.
 
ironwood

For what it's worth I think you're sittin pretty good on equipment. Your set up is an awesome one in my opinion also.

Good luck with that bow, sounds like you have some personal help but if it doesn't work out lemme know and I'll have you bring it into our shop.
 
Thanks Muddy. I wish I would have started a topic called missed opportunities. I think I'll do that right now. Cool story
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I did put a Hoyt sight with a level on today. It's a lot different trying to center the whole sight assembly including the level but I'll be working on it.
 
ironwood

I have a level on my Trophy Ridge and all the level does is screw me up even more. If you're shooting good now all you need to do is practice and you'll be shooting great by this fall. Gadgets never fix problems, they just allow you to place blame elsewhere!! By the sounds of it you got your bow in order now, I'd stick with the release you're with now, those back tension releases can be VERY tricky. I wouldn't go to lighter arrows if it was me, stick with what ya got or bump up to the 400's. As far as the single pin sight...I have never tried one but don't think I can shoot one. I need to have the security of being able to put my pin on what I want to hit, not float it above or below like with a single pin.

I do'nt know if anyone has addressed the treestand form for ya yet. Just remember to bend at the waist when you shoot. Your whole upper body must move, not just your arms and shoulders. It seems kind've scary at first but get a good safety harness and practice it and you'll do fine. It helps if you spread your feet pretty far apart while leaning over in the stand also.

Good luck, any more questions post away!
 
ironwood,
That's not bad... The first deer I shot at was a dandy. I was so nervous I was looking out of the wrong eye through the peep site couldn't figure out what was wrong. The deer was standing there at 20 yards broadside staring at a doe bedded down 15 yards from me, I couldn't have planned it any better. Well long story short, I shot, and the arrow went off the animal's antlers and he shook his head and just stood there! Knocked another arrow did the same thing and missed him by no less than fifteen yards to the right.
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After that shot the doe got up and went out into the field and he followed like nothing ever happened. After I quit shaking and cussing I got down out of the tree and went home... It was 7:00 am on November 11, 1995
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. I will never forget that day I had never knew what all the buzz was about until that moment. I could barely get back to my truck my legs were so weak. I think about it now and still laugh. So don't feel bad about mis-judging distances, I was having trouble staying on my stand...
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Sorry for getting off the subject and telling stories.
I'm with you muddy I had a level sight once and after 2 days of shooting it I put a piece of black tape over it so I couldn't see it.The best thing that happened to that sight was the day I was pulling my bow up the tree and it hit one of my tree pegs and broke off. The best advice I can give is practice and remeber
10 minutes of good practice is better than 1 hour of bad practice if a couple of arrows fly off course once in awhile it probably isn't the bow,the arrows,the sight ,the release,it's probably the operator.Don't take that as an insult I wish I had every minute back I had putting on new sights buying and shooting new arrows etc. There is just a learning curve that it seems you must go through to learn everything. Just stick with it and after 15 years of practicing you will still miss the bullseye once in a while and will choke when the monster comes in. That's all part of it. Like my brother said a few years back after he missed a nice one "It is harder than hell to shoot a bow with both of your hands around your neck"
Good luck and NEVER give up!!
 
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