My Knowledge & Solution quest for Info to combat EHD & TICKS....

Discussion in 'Whitetail Management' started by Sligh1, Mar 23, 2017.

  1. MN Slick

    MN Slick PMA Member

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    I've heard the too dry for EHD theory this year too. Hopefully it's accurate! Anyone remember if August and September were dry in 2012 when EHD affected so many deer? I've been frustrated that multiple storms have missed my farms the last couple weeks but if the too dry for EHD theory is accurate it's going to be a blessing in disguise.
     
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  3. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    Here's gonna be ur best answer to 2012.... if we could find anyone from MADISON county that could explain conditions there. That was the worst county for EHD death and wipe out I've personally ever seen and talked to guys. Not that it hit every single farm but I remember being there once and talking to a few guys and seeing how many dead deer they had- I've never seen anything like it and hope I never do again.
    The farms I've personally had with ehd bombs- tons of cattle and tons of rain. The worst year I personally had was summer of 2015 when we I had at least 5-6 storms with 4"-6" rains. Massive fluctuations in water in a matter of days.
     
  4. Boonervilleusa

    Boonervilleusa PMA Member

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    I live in Madison. I wasn't here in 2012. But I have noticed that the deer numbers here are very pockety. Some places have very very high deer numbers, some have relatively low numbers...but those areas seem to have high quality (BIG) bucks. I would say that is likely due to less herd stress. I hunt areas of both scenarios. Madison county also has A LOT of cattle fwiw.
     
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  5. Hardwood11

    Hardwood11 PMA Member

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    Any other EHD updates. Just hearing a few minor reports so far.
     
  6. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't think we gonna know much just yet. IMO.
    Btw- anyone else go by their land and see the flock of vultures and get all paranoid!!?! ;).

    So..... I found that buck dead that I posted earlier deep in timber. Was looking at a farm for a buddy. I had to walk within maybe 75 yards of it in deep timber to get a smell. That finally lead me to it. Now- how many guys are walking deep in timber? Not many. How many guys are gonna pick up the smell if they do? (will be eaten pretty fast by vultures and rot out) Not many.
    That's the crappy part- i think the wait is gonna be ahead of us. For ME- I rarely found them until the following shed season - because 1) I don't go walking through stuff PLUS 2) it's so dang thick - u can't see anything anyways.
    The only way u gonna find one is if it's dead right at a pond or u smell one and go looking (or see vultures on one and go check). I hope the EHD grim reaper passes me by. I hope he passes me by because this garlic and sulfur smell so bad he moves on to the next area ;). They are gobbling it up.
     
  7. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    So..... drove... yes drove a creek for a substantial distance today. ATV right down the middle.... usually 2-10' of water. Didn't find one deer in the hundreds of pools of water I passed. Didn't smell anything dead other than a raccoon I found.

    I take this as a major positive. Not out of the woods, but was expecting a lot worse!
     
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  8. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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  9. mswaldo

    mswaldo Member

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    I have been using 2 parts trace mineral salt with selenium to 1 part di-calcium phosphate. This has a lot higher amounts of calcium but lower amounts of the copper, manganese, and zinc.

    Do you think the higher amounts of the minerals outweighs the lower amounts of calcium? di-cal has about 18% calcium.

    The Kent 365 ADE looks good and price is decent.

    thanks
     
  10. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    Kent 365 is good. ROUGH goal is to have 8-10% phosphorous & double that in calcium, ballpark. Selenium, zinc, manganese, cobalt, D & E vitamins, Copper, etc etc etc all have their place and reason. There’s a reason deer breeders who are trying to add health & rack size feed these things as well as others. They don’t do it to throw away $ or for fun. Our farms are almost always phosphorus deficient. Deficient in lots of other places too. Again, why cattle guys Feed mineral as well. They also have concern with Blue tongue, etc. Each component in mineral has a reason and benefit. If it’s a quality mix and not a bag of mostly salt. Here’s label that’s an EXAMPLE of a mix I have. Compare to others.

    I am skeptically optimistic about granulated garlic & sulfur too. Added molasses to make it more attractive. Ate it up & 2 things about it 1) I believe I saw beneficial results. I did not find ONE ehd deer dead that I know of (I expect at least a few every year and sure I will find some in future). IMO it helps & I saw it in action. 2) the research supports the findings. The most ROBUST research for garlic and sulfur is in: cows, horses, sheep, etc. but- many deer breeders use it as well and some articles and “small studies” with deer- all encouraging.
    I lost 26 bucks to EHD on one farm alone in summer of 2015 with huge water fluctuations, new cattle brought in next door & the fact that I didn’t get hit in 2012-2013.... I was due to get pounded and I did. Lost about 15 on another farm- same year and same circumstance. If i can boost immune systems at a mimimum, it would be a nice tool to fight those horrid midges. Garlic, sulfur, etc - I’m gonna try & HELP.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
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  11. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    Ponds are full. Creeks are full. More and more rain. I hope it’s not a “fluctuating” water level to significant degrees. I got some “preventative measures” in place regardless. Changed it up slightly with this cwd mess (which - I won’t touch on that here even though I know there’s some views on mineral, etc being bad. Long story - I get it. I disagree but I get it. Anyways avoiding that topic unless someone wants to dig deeper :). ).
    One by one I think next year- ONE little extra thing I’m going to look into..... 1 of 3 things or all 3..... this is just a small portion..... 1) run solar power bubblers in my ponds - add a couple year for higher oxygen & water quality (get rid of stagnant water). Need to do more research on what to buy & where. 2) certain vegetation on banks of ponds. 3) taking excavator and steepening pond banks. Take couple hours per pond.
    Got some granulated garlic, sulfur, etc & making some tweaks to not have people who think doing or not doing xyz will change cwd circumstances.
    Now if I can kill all the cows in 2-3 mile radius- be a really nice next step!!! :)
     
  12. Rjack

    Rjack PMA Member

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    Just get out the 30-30 cow killer and get to work. ;)
     
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  13. bwese

    bwese Member

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  14. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    Good one!! They use that out east a lot. Down south they use ivermectin in feed to combat ticks.
    That above link- guy could make those- think of a paint roller (what above uses) & how u could get it to touch a deer (feed) & does work.
     
  15. HorseDoctor

    HorseDoctor PMA Member

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    Sadly, I seriously doubt if a little topical ivermectin would have a significant impact on the midges that transmit EHD! If it did, the high dollar deer farms would have figured that out long ago and stopped their EHD losses long ago!
     
  16. goatman

    goatman I hunt days ending in Y

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    When I was raising exotic sheep we would switch from ivermectin to cydectin to reduce resistance buildup in parasites.
     
  17. HorseDoctor

    HorseDoctor PMA Member

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    Good program for internal parasites. Not much help for biting midges though.
     
  18. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    Right. Damage is done when it comes to Midges with ivermectin (traditionally a dewormer). I was saying they use it in Texas for ticks. Ya- wish it could help with midges. :(
     
  19. bwese

    bwese Member

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    My post was only talking about ticks. They have nothing to do with EHD or midges and the ideas on the site don't claim to be working on the midge or EHD problem.
     
  20. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    No- I get it and ticks r a big deal!!! They stress deer (health & antler size impacted) & transmit diseases that can kill people. Ticks r a huge problem!!!
    The garlic & sulfur I’ve added to mineral, with evidence in studies, will suppress the biting of insects from ticks to midges. Flies, midges, ticks, etc- less you have the better. From general stress to disease.
     
  21. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    HMMMMM.....
    https://eap.mcgill.ca/agrobio/ab370-04e.htm

    2 take aways on this & 1 more I want to read more into.... Half way down link above is garlic....
    1) Garlic is also used as a dewormer. Which, I guess isn't a surprise. It's anti-insecticidal properties have quite a bit of info, studies & lots of folks using for that in many scenarios.
    2) Pyrethrum.... A common class of insecticides. I believe Permethrin is a Pyrethrum. Effective & gov data shows as "very safe" when used on clothes, for example, to keep ticks off. Now, commonly used in animals as dewormer as well. Here's the question I have that I want to get some feedback on and dig into..... Could it be used to repel biting insects???? Many dewormers do have these properties. Where Ivermectin was a MISS was on midges: it will kill the midge but the damage is done. Where Ivermectin is a HIT is killing ticks for example (or at least why efforts are made for use in Texas, to combat tick population - mixing with deer feed). Pyrethrum on the other hand.... Thinking out loud.... "COULD" potentially have the repellent properties like Permethrin does. I'm gonna dig more on this.

    "Pyrethrum

    Pyrethrum (Chrysanthemum cinerariifolium) is commonly used as an insecticide in agriculture. It also has anthelminthic properties. As a dewormer, it is administered in powder form in animal feed. It may be safely used for warm-blooded animals, unless it is injected. In this case, it must be mixed with oil and the necessary precautions taken.

    Pyrethrum is 100% effective against ascarids in chickens, in the amount of 200 mg/bird using 0.8% pyrethrum32. A complete cure was obtained against Ascaris in chickens, by giving them pyrethrum powder (concentration unknown), using 2% of the ration for 7 days44. Pyrethrum is also useful against strongyles in horses, in the amount of 3.5 mg/kg of live weight35. For more information on the veterinary uses of pyrethrum, see Urbain and Guillot41.

    Although a Mediterranean plant, pyrethrum may be cultivated easily in many places. For more information on pyrethrum culture, see the Agro-Bio synthesis entitled "Home Production of Pyrethrum", available at EAP."

    "Garlic can be administered in several ways:

    • Fresh: Fresh minced garlic proved to be clearly more efficient than garlic extracts for controlling internal parasites in carp30. Using fresh garlic is ideal although not necessarily the most practical on a day-to-day basis. The leaves and bulbs may also be used. If the animals do not want to eat the leaves whole, they may be cut into small pieces, mixed with molasses and bran, and shaped into small balls. The bulbs may be grated and mashed with molasses or honey and flour. Garlic may also be planted directly in the pastures in such way that the animals have access to it as needed.
    • Powder: The most practical way to administer garlic is undoubtedly to add powdered garlic to animal feed. Powdered garlic can be bought at a reasonable cost in bulk from major food manufacturers (e.g. McCormick, Quest International, Griffith Laboratories, etc.).
    • Pills: This is a method that is useful only for very small herds. Two or three pills of four grains is the required daily dosage for one sheep.
    • Juice: British herbalist Grieve16 suggested using garlic juice or garlic milk as a dewormer. Garlic milk is made by boiling bulbs mashed in milk. Some researchers recommend, however, not boiling garlic as this reduces its effectiveness against parasite eggs and larvae.
    • Mother tincture: Garlic mother tincture is given in dosages of 20 drops/day/10 kg of live weight.
    In the case of dairy animals, it is preferable to feed them garlic during or immediately after milking so that the milk does not pick up the taste."
     

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