JNRBRONC
Well-Known Member
I was shaking my head after the last range session. The rifle was shooting worse than ever or was it me? Was it the load? Did I damage the scope with the heavy loads or did it get damaged when the rifle fell over and smacked the ground last winter? Were my mounts/rings loose?
I had a local gun shop place the order for the gun, rings and scope when I bought it. They mounted the scope for me. I opted for a Nikon Monarch UCC in 2X7X30mm. I figured the low mag would be good for close work in thick brush. I never have been one to want to shoot across the section, so figured the 7X top side would never be a limiting factor. Well, I've been starting to second guess that. I came across a new scope that I thought I would give a try. For what it costs, figured I didn't have much to lose and I've read numerous positive hunting forum reviews from other owners. It gains me 2X on the top end will going from 30 to a 40mm objective. The most common criticism I have heard are that it is big, bulky, heavy, and ugly. I can live with that. :grin:
The scope arrived last week and I decided to mount it on the gun this morning. Taking off the Nikon, I found two screws that were loose. Rather bittersweet, I might have found what was causing the rifle to string left to right. I might have spent some money that I didn't need to, but now I have a spare scope (the Nikon) and as stated, gained 2X and 10mm in objective size. My next purchase really should be a better set of mounts/rings as I've never been impressed with the set the gun store selected. (Hint: never order a rifle (let alone a ML rifle) from a private gun store that specializes in handguns. They came highly recommended by a friend.)
Way too windy today to do any meaningful range time.
I had a local gun shop place the order for the gun, rings and scope when I bought it. They mounted the scope for me. I opted for a Nikon Monarch UCC in 2X7X30mm. I figured the low mag would be good for close work in thick brush. I never have been one to want to shoot across the section, so figured the 7X top side would never be a limiting factor. Well, I've been starting to second guess that. I came across a new scope that I thought I would give a try. For what it costs, figured I didn't have much to lose and I've read numerous positive hunting forum reviews from other owners. It gains me 2X on the top end will going from 30 to a 40mm objective. The most common criticism I have heard are that it is big, bulky, heavy, and ugly. I can live with that. :grin:
The scope arrived last week and I decided to mount it on the gun this morning. Taking off the Nikon, I found two screws that were loose. Rather bittersweet, I might have found what was causing the rifle to string left to right. I might have spent some money that I didn't need to, but now I have a spare scope (the Nikon) and as stated, gained 2X and 10mm in objective size. My next purchase really should be a better set of mounts/rings as I've never been impressed with the set the gun store selected. (Hint: never order a rifle (let alone a ML rifle) from a private gun store that specializes in handguns. They came highly recommended by a friend.)
Way too windy today to do any meaningful range time.
Shovelbuck
Active Member
Sounds like you have a good extra scope. Let us know how it shoots with the new one.
JNRBRONC
Well-Known Member
Finally got out to shoot this morning. While thinking about how the scope had come loose, I decided that I wanted to change bases and rings. I bought two Weaver S46 bases and a set of "permanent" Warne rings from Brownells. I torqued everything pretty well, used lock tite on the bases.
I decided to try the "30 yard sight in" that was suggested here. First shot, off the paper. I moved the target in to 20 yards and clipped the edge of it. I was shooting off a varminter rest, so I set the rifle on the rest, aiming where I had held for the last shot, then adjusted the scope to the bullet hole on the edge of the target. The next shot is dead center, so let's go to 100 yards.
I had a "surveryor's measuring wheel" and rolled out to 100 yards. The first group wasn't that great. The first two shots grouped somewhat ok, but the third shot was a "flyer". I had noticed that it went down the barrel a little easier than the previous two. Not sure why or if that was the reason for the flyer.
The next group is shown below!
Like it says, I was shooting 42.5 grains of 4759 behind a Hornady 250 grain XTP bullet held in a short black MMP sabot with a Federal 209 primer. I'll play around a little more over the summer, but I think I've found what I'll be shooting this fall. Some people use around 45 grains of 4759, so they might consider this a mild load. I think Jim picked up a chronograph, so when I get back down to his range, I'll see where I am FPS wise.
Almost forgot about the scope:this was the maiden voyage of the HiLux 3X9X40mm Toby Bridges special. All I'll say is that it is adequate, won't go as far as endorsing it yet.
I decided to try the "30 yard sight in" that was suggested here. First shot, off the paper. I moved the target in to 20 yards and clipped the edge of it. I was shooting off a varminter rest, so I set the rifle on the rest, aiming where I had held for the last shot, then adjusted the scope to the bullet hole on the edge of the target. The next shot is dead center, so let's go to 100 yards.
I had a "surveryor's measuring wheel" and rolled out to 100 yards. The first group wasn't that great. The first two shots grouped somewhat ok, but the third shot was a "flyer". I had noticed that it went down the barrel a little easier than the previous two. Not sure why or if that was the reason for the flyer.
The next group is shown below!
Like it says, I was shooting 42.5 grains of 4759 behind a Hornady 250 grain XTP bullet held in a short black MMP sabot with a Federal 209 primer. I'll play around a little more over the summer, but I think I've found what I'll be shooting this fall. Some people use around 45 grains of 4759, so they might consider this a mild load. I think Jim picked up a chronograph, so when I get back down to his range, I'll see where I am FPS wise.
Almost forgot about the scope:this was the maiden voyage of the HiLux 3X9X40mm Toby Bridges special. All I'll say is that it is adequate, won't go as far as endorsing it yet.
Shovelbuck
Active Member
Looking good. This has been a great post so far! Thanks!
Liv4Rut
Active Member
I looked at one of these guns the other day at Cabela's but was a little confused. It said Savage ML10 BP on the label, then on the label said for Blackhorn 209, Pyrodex, Hot Shots. It didn't say anything about smokeless, unless a Hot Shot is smokeless. I wasn't sure. Does Savage make a couple different models, one for smokeless and one not for smokeless? The gun felt great in the hands but it had a camo synthetic camo stock and there appeared to many imperfections (White spots) all throughout the stock. That was kind of strange. I'd get a black one or wood stock anyways.
Have you ever shot XTP's before in the past? From what I have seen as well as 5 other guys in our group they are tack drivers, however we have all switched to different bullets because we could never get a descent blood trail with them with more than a few drops. They blow right through with them with little expansion. I was just wondering, we haven't shot them in 4-5 years so maybe they changed them.
Have you ever shot XTP's before in the past? From what I have seen as well as 5 other guys in our group they are tack drivers, however we have all switched to different bullets because we could never get a descent blood trail with them with more than a few drops. They blow right through with them with little expansion. I was just wondering, we haven't shot them in 4-5 years so maybe they changed them.
JNRBRONC
Well-Known Member
Savage just released a BP only version, a very STUPID move IMO! They were getting resistance from gun stores that did not want to carry the smokeless version because of perceived liability issues (my guess). Also, as with any company, they are trying to grow market share by releasing a different model (again, my guess). So they released a BP only rifle to compete with the T/C's, Knight's, CVA's, etc. What business model says its a good idea to enter a saturated market?
So if anybody was worried about liability, wait until somebody shoots smokeless in the BP version and claims "I heard Savages can shoot smokeless". The good thing is that I heard it is essentially the same gun so it should handle smokeless if a person makes this mistake, but don't take my word for it!
And yes, the synthetic factory stock has gained the nickname "tupperware". I bought the camo synthetic stock on my ML10II because a gun to me is a tool and I don't want to worry about scratching up a fancy stock in the field. If I was to buy a new one today, I'd seriously look at the wood laminate stock. The only down side to it in my mind is that it adds more weight to an already heavy gun.
In regards to the XTP's, which ones was your group shooting? The 300 grain XTPs punch right through for me as you mention, not doing much damage. That is the non-magnum 300 grain XTP and the 300 grain XTP MAG is supposed to be even worse for this. I've settled on the 250 grain XTP and a powder charge that gets me around 1,900 fps. The XTP's were developed for pistols at much lower velocities. I did start off with 250 grain SST's pushed a little faster than that and they were essentially grenades, with explosive fragmentation. I've got pieces of them I have recovered from deer, the jackets almost always separated from the lead core. Between blowing up and the cost, I've settled on the 250 grain XTP.
There are tons of "specialty" ML bullets out there that one can try, ( PR Bullets, Spitfire TMZ ), I just don't feel the need to pay $1 or more per bullet. It all comes down to placing them in the boiler room!
So if anybody was worried about liability, wait until somebody shoots smokeless in the BP version and claims "I heard Savages can shoot smokeless". The good thing is that I heard it is essentially the same gun so it should handle smokeless if a person makes this mistake, but don't take my word for it!
And yes, the synthetic factory stock has gained the nickname "tupperware". I bought the camo synthetic stock on my ML10II because a gun to me is a tool and I don't want to worry about scratching up a fancy stock in the field. If I was to buy a new one today, I'd seriously look at the wood laminate stock. The only down side to it in my mind is that it adds more weight to an already heavy gun.
In regards to the XTP's, which ones was your group shooting? The 300 grain XTPs punch right through for me as you mention, not doing much damage. That is the non-magnum 300 grain XTP and the 300 grain XTP MAG is supposed to be even worse for this. I've settled on the 250 grain XTP and a powder charge that gets me around 1,900 fps. The XTP's were developed for pistols at much lower velocities. I did start off with 250 grain SST's pushed a little faster than that and they were essentially grenades, with explosive fragmentation. I've got pieces of them I have recovered from deer, the jackets almost always separated from the lead core. Between blowing up and the cost, I've settled on the 250 grain XTP.
There are tons of "specialty" ML bullets out there that one can try, ( PR Bullets, Spitfire TMZ ), I just don't feel the need to pay $1 or more per bullet.
It all comes down to placing them in the boiler room!
JNRBRONC
Well-Known Member
I was looking around the web, trying to get an appreciation for what kind of velocity I was obtaining with the powder/bullet combination I was shooting last Saturday. I found the following data where the velocity was actually chronographed.
250gr XTP
MMP short black sabot
43grs SR4759
Fed. 209A
2273fps avg.
300gr XTP
MMP short black sabot
42grs SR4759
Fed. 209A
2126fps avg.
I'm guessing I was shooting right around 2,220 fps. I'll be plenty happy with this combination of speed and recoil. :way:
250gr XTP
MMP short black sabot
43grs SR4759
Fed. 209A
2273fps avg.
300gr XTP
MMP short black sabot
42grs SR4759
Fed. 209A
2126fps avg.
I'm guessing I was shooting right around 2,220 fps. I'll be plenty happy with this combination of speed and recoil. :way: