Necked cartridges introduced

Discussion in 'Legislative Forum' started by muddy, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. Fishbonker

    Fishbonker Life Member

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    HF716 has been introduced in the Senate and assigned to the Natural Recourses and Environment Committee. Committee members here:https://www.legis.iowa.gov/committees/committee?ga=88&groupID=699 I expect Senator Rozenboom will appoint a subcommittee soon, maybe even Monday. When he does I'll post that here as well.

    Talking points, since this was initially pushed as a youth bill point out that the calibers they are proposing are not for youth shooters. Point out the long range aspects of the guns, point out the potential effects on the deer herd, while this may provide some new sales for gun stores in the long run fewer licenses will be sold if there are fewer deer to kill. Read some of the posts up in the main forum from out of state guys who have gone through this in their home states. We all know the end game is for guns in the rut, you can use that but slippery slope doesn't carry any water if the folks in power want the bill to pass but don't leave any rounds in the chamber, shoot them all.

    I was looking to see if just dropping the language about "cartridge rifles" or "straight wall or other center fire ammunition" would be acceptable but there just doesn't seem to be any way to polish this turd. But, in our communications with the legislators say the whole bill is bad but the center fire stuff makes it worse. Stress that adding methods of take does not create new hunting opportunities, access to more public land creates hunting opportunities.

    Also the bill started out with a restriction of .357 to .500 calibers. It got changed to .350-.500. Winchester just came out with a .350 caliber rifle. Coincidence? Only if you believe in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and The Great Pumpkin.
     
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  3. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    Is IBA on this? I assume so.
    Does anyone on here not know about the IBA & how they are pretty much our sole source for fighting this with any organization? If not- please read up & join!!! If u do know - please make sure u join as well!! We need the IBA on this & also need hunter awareness of the IBA!!! Please get info on this & IBA out to the masses. I’m horrid on social media but please get link to IBA’s site all over on social media!!!! The reason iowa is iowa (for now) has a huge part to do with IBA!!!!!
    IBA memberships.....
    http://iowabowhunters.org/joiniba.html

    Side note... I’m thinking out loud here..... I’m an nra member but this disgusts me!!!!!! We need to move up the chain to contact the folks at nra who are pushing this crap!!!! “Protect our second amendment!!!!!” “Stay out of our frigin state hunting laws & regulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” I’m so irate at NRA & political slime bags - they have way over stepped their grounds & purpose. OUT OF LINE!!! IBA & some others need to work together to get a little dialogue going with nra. Chewing on this....
     
  4. Earnhardt

    Earnhardt Member

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    This is gonna piss some of you guys off.... but here we go...

    Case length limit of 1.8"
    Case length limit of 1.8"
    CASE LENGTH LIMIT of 1.8"!

    The first straight wall cartridge law that was passed last year in Iowa, that allowed AR style guns using straight walls cartidges, limited the case length to 1.8"
    So, the 450 Bushmaster, 45 Raptor, 50 Beowulf, etc... were some the guns/ammo that were allowed.
    Now the new proposal is bottle necked style cartridges, .350" to .500"...with NO CASE LENGTH limit.
    IF this new Legislation was ONLY about allowing a few more AR style cartridges to able to be used, then that 1.8" limit would be in the legislation
    But the case length limit is not there....So if it walks like a duck...

    If these legislators and the manufacturers, that are pushing for this to pass are dead set on allowing the .350 up to .50 bottleneck case, (SOCOM's etc...) there is probably nothing we can do...

    But you can stop the bleeding ( a little anyways) by putting a limit on the allowable case length that these guns can use. 1.8" MAX CASE LENGTH

    In case you guys haven't realized this, the gun/firearms industry is collapsing/tanking after the election of 2016.
    Why would anyone buy more guns/ammo/scopes?, when everyone stocked up on them from 2008 to 2016?
    Those gun/ammo manufacturers need new sources of income/revenue

    Any States that have entirely shotgun only deer seasons, (Iowa) or portions of the State as shotgun only, (MN) are going to be the biggest, easiest and quickest target for the gun/ammo manufacturers to make a quick buck....
    I would love to know how many boxes of 450 Bushmaster ammo were sold in the last year in Iowa...

    And the way they are doing it in Iowa is genius...
    First, they allow limited types of rifle cartridges to be used for deer season...then a fair amount of hunters shift from the old style pumpkin throwin', bird barreled guns as well as the dedicated slug guns, to an AR style pistol case shooting gun
    Second, slowly expand the case allowances to bottle necked cartridges that start allowing more types of cartidges to fly under the radar....then more people buy their first AR style gun, OR buy another more effiecient gun/cartridge combo, that is "better" than the first style cartridge.
    Third...then comes the .270's and .300 Win Mags...

    I hate to be the one to tell you this, but there are several .375 and .416 bottleneck style magnum cartridges, that with an UNLIMITED CASE length, will allow you to shoot deer literally as far as you can see, when built, loaded and scoped properly.

    No, I don't want the centerfire style cartridges out there in Iowa, but with a case length limit of 1.8" or less, that will at least take some of the Super Magnums out of the equation.

    It has to be the gun/ammo manufacturers out there that wanted the case length language left out....that leaves the door open for any length bottlenecked cartidge from .350" to .50" caliber to be used.

    And once that door is opened, then the full blown rifle season will follow. Allowing all types of rifle cartridges to be used...and a whole bunch of new guns and ammo to be sold
    That spike in rifle sales in Iowa will last 2-5 years.
    Then the quality of the buck herd will collapse
    Then even less people will be interested in deer hunting in Iowa, both resident and non-resident...because that's what Iowa is known for. A Quality Buck herd, due to the fact that you could only use shotguns outside of the rut.
    Then deer license sales and revenue will plummet even more
    Then the DNR will have to increase the cost of licenses and increase the number Non-resident licenses to offset to downfall in license fees coming in
    I know this is a slippery slope... but let's re-visit this thread in 5-10 years

    So who wins with this new cartridge law...is it the deer hunters of Iowa and the DNR... or the gun/ammo manufacturers?

    CASE LENGTH LIMIT of 1.8"!
     
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  5. Farm boy

    Farm boy New Member

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    Ok input from Michigan
    Lived here my whole life and stared hunting in 1973. Back then hunting in the UP was very good and I looked forward to deer camp every year. Since then farms in the UP have went away and deer no longer have the food Source they once did, many more hunters bought land in pursuit of what used to be good whitetail hunting, most of them were way to late to get in on it. I still go to the UP for deer camp but most of my time hunting is on my own farm in the lower.
    My first year of hunting Iowa Was in 2010, you guys have the MOST INCREDIBLE hunting ever.
    Now I will just list some points
    1. For you who have never hunted any place other then Iowa it's going to be harder to understand.
    2. Yes we have had some of the same issues and like others have said on this forum once they get their foot in the door the door keeps being pushed open more all the time... Listen to them it is correct
    3. Straight wall cartridge we have it
    4. Rifle season not only do we have it, but a shotgun zone and rifle zone and I live 2 miles from the rifle zone
    5. I don't know why or how rifles have not made it to your state already. Fight to keep them out its going to be hard if not impossible but do try.
    6. This year because of CWD we were allowed to use during the muzzle season the Gun that we are allowed during regular gun season, is that a foot in the door or just CWD issue, see what the 2019 season says.
    7. I do deer habitat like CAZY, if I don't my hunting would suck even worse. Guys it's never to late to start and keep the deer near you so you can have a chance
    8. If this doesn't get your attention and make you think and realize what kind of a state Iowa is and worth fighting for, come to MI I will show you around I may even be able to get you in on a 2 square mile chunck of ground ( should warn you that it has at least 38 hunters already)
    9. Still doesn't get everyone's attention, maybe someday you will be telling your grandkids bout the big bucks Iowa once had, (do everything possible on not letting that foot in the door) and maybe your grandkids will be able to say thanks for all you did.
    10. I may not be the best at putting this together but point is if you loose this battle you will never be able to go back to what you now have.
    GOOD LUCK
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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  6. loneranger

    loneranger Well-Known Member

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    I came from MItoo. Hunted there for 50 yrs. part of the reason you mostly see yearlings is 400,000 bow hunters and 800,000 gun hunters! Human population. Guys here in Iowa in good areas with large managed tracts may have supreme older class buck hunting. I live in Iowa. I do not I see mostly yearlins like I did in Mi thru November. I have a friend in the center of MI near Cadillac. He has private property but alot of public land around. He sees more bucks in bow hunting than I do so not all of Mi is poor. All this howling over the ruination of big buck hunting in Iowa? Any changes wont affect my hunting much.
     
  7. 4DABUCKS

    4DABUCKS Well-Known Member

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    Loneranger...you never seem to let me down! You always put a smile on my face and brighten my day!! All I can do is smile and shake my head!
     
  8. loewmd

    loewmd Member

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    Just seen on the TBI page this same guy is backing a bill to remove hunters safety requirement for 13-15 year olds. Maybe someone can confirm this but I'd say this guy needs to go. He's single handedly trying to destroy hunting with his "ideas." Hunting was fine before he was elected and it's better off with him out of office.
     
  9. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    There’s some great posts above!!!! Wow. Earnhardt, farm boy, etc. Earnhardt- u did heck of a job making this clear as day!!! $!!!! Farm boy nailed it on what most states look like for hunting. Please grasp what he’s saying!!!! Great posts!!!!!
     
  10. Ishi

    Ishi Hang & Hunt Enthusiast

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    Awesome post!!!
    Dang the IBA for trying to protect what really matters:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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  11. loneranger

    loneranger Well-Known Member

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    I may make you all smile on here but you make me smile. What I say about my hunting here in Iowa is true. If you doubt it come and hunt with me. I do see a majority of young bucks. I have food plots that I can afford. Small but I put em in. I have apple and pear trees. I did live and deer hunt in MI for 50 yrs. I expected a big difference in Iowa hunting compared to MI. It is some better but not by much. Mostly because I hunted public land in MI. I have 40 acres private here. You can have quality deer hunting in MI too if you own your land and have neighbors who let em grow. Same here in Iowa. Unfortunate for me many of my Iowa neighbors are brown down types. Its a challenge to wait for an older animal. Sometimes gets old though. Since I am hunting for dinner I eventually take two deer. A buck and a doe. This past season almost thought I'd have to take a yearling. After 65 hours on stand I had seen 9 yearlings 3 two year olds and two I think were 3 yrs. I did see a 5 or 4 yr old mid day on a strole,, but was near my house on a Sunday when I don't hunt. finally I saw the busted up 3 yr old I'd seen earlier and took him. Decent amount of meat once they are 3 yrs old. All the craze about horn makes me laugh. Herd management and QDM and buck to doe rartios all this has made plain old deer hunting into some kind of madness in my opinion. All you see in TV shows videos, product promotions is guys holdin up them Horns. Forget the rest of the deer just fondle those horns! It is kinda creepy. The pressure is on all deer hunters especially young ones. What's the SCORE? All that counts. Don't let any other weapon in the season it might take away my Horns. I think allowing rifles in Iowa is dumb. Residences are too close. This is not the west. Beyond that it won't affect my hunting. I think we have more to be concerned about with disease in the herd, than what kind of Weapon is used.
     
  12. Ishi

    Ishi Hang & Hunt Enthusiast

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    We can’t control disease but weapons use for deer hunting are man made( laws made)
     
  13. Hardwood11

    Hardwood11 Well-Known Member

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    Rifles and deer in Iowa would be a terrible combo.
     
  14. LoessHillsArcher

    LoessHillsArcher Well-Known Member

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    Keep sending those emails folks, it is what really will have an impact!!!


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  15. Farm boy

    Farm boy New Member

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    Taking the lid off.
    Might want to go back and read my earlier post so you understand my comments.
    As far as last year 2018 MI being able to use the gun that is used during regular gun season for the ML season because of CWD.
    Well, still in effect for me because I live in a management county, so 2 years in a row, I now can us my 450 during ML.
    Why do I bring this up?
    Once foot is in the door its hard to shut it.
    Now for a little stirring the pot.
    I am sure you will be having to deal with the same issues again as far as introducing new cartages, it's not going to stop.
    If you think the bark of a 450 is bad wait till you hear the piercing sound of a 25-06 than hear the smack.
    Little more stir.
    1. Again for you who have never hunted any place other than Iowa and mainly the younger Hunter's, you may not have a clue what you have compared to other states.
    2. Now the big stir, what if given enough time hunting and Iowa goes down hill so far and MI gets back on track that your grandkids tell you they r buying an out of state tag for MI.
    DON'T get caught of guard and think things will always b the same, over time things do change.
    Some things we have no control over some we do.
     
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  16. meyeri

    meyeri PMA Member

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    I noticed that the IFC, Iowa firearms coalition is sponsoring both these bills. These are gun guys and not hunters. I follow them and agree with most of what they are doing, but I disagree on these bills. It's unfortunate that guys donate to this organization to help fight gun rights and the group uses that funding to push new legislation that doesn't really address gun rights.

    I know plenty of weekend warriors who support it. In my opinion it's basically because they're lazy and instead of scouting where the deer are and setting up in range with a 200 yd gun, they wanna snipe them from 400 yds and cover the whole field. I listened to a guy complain when they took away the late doe rifle season in his county and how he didn't have enough time during the regular season to control his population. Really? Not enough time from October 1- January 10th. Give me a break.

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  17. 2-bucks

    2-bucks PMA Member

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    https://www.chuckhawks.com/35_caliber_family.htm

    These are just some of the cartridges that will become legal. 300 yard guns all over the pace. Some guns and loads will be capable of more but very few people are. How about a 375 H&H for deer?
     
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  18. OMB

    OMB New Member

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    I really think the effect of moving to rifles during shotgun season is being very overstated. The biggest thing that Iowa has going is the fact the firearms hunts occur well after the rut. I also know it's easy to say that guys would start shooting deer at 500 yards+, but I would challenge anyone saying that to actually get a rangefinder out and find areas where that's even doable on a living target. I think you'd be hard pressed to find many hunting situations where 200+ is realistic. Personally with how muzzleloaders have developed in the past 10 years, I'd rather see more restrictions put on those weapons or eliminating the early season than fighting introduction of rifles. From a pure ethics standpoint, I'd also rather see hunters out with effective tools like rifles than banging away with smoothbore shotguns with rifled slugs and bead sights.

    Having hunted multiple states/areas that have went from shotgun only to rifle, the timing and season structure is much more important than the actual weapon itself.
     
  19. bigbuckhunter88

    bigbuckhunter88 PMA Member

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    It's too early for this thread to be popping off again. Gotta wait til after deer season when the new proposals come out. But to the above poster, not sure where you're from but come on up to the central areas of the state where its flatter than a pancake with fence lines and sloughs. Can see from gravel road to gravel road and truck hunting is a normality. That 500 yard shot becomes a reality in a hurry.
     
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  20. Fishbonker

    Fishbonker Life Member

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    My thoughts exactly. I'm pretty sure this is coming back around this session. It's difficult to stay fired up on an issue, no matter how near and dear it is to your heart, for over three months. Sit back, watch, listen, then get fired up and make contacts and make a difference. That's not to say it isn't a good idea to contact your reps now to let them you are still watching but save your energy for the big push. We made a difference last year, we can do it again this year, it is important not to get burned out and numb to an issue by getting the bit in your teeth too early.

    Simmer now, boil later.
     
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  21. Ishi

    Ishi Hang & Hunt Enthusiast

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    Right on!! I want to enjoy December before the madness starts over again :rolleyes:
     
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