Propagating cedar trees- Thoughts

[IowaBowHunter1983]

Has anyone experimented with trying to propagate cedar trees. (ie, make them spread faster)….yes… I can see every cattleman and ag farmer scratching their head as I type this.


Imagine some former pasture with cedar and hedge trees…. Well I want the cedars to spread and get thick in certain areas.


I have some mowing to do to get rid of multiflora rose. Think spraying to kill the grass will help spread cedars, or working all the ground (probably just cause weeds?)…


Or just leave it alone and with cows gone trees will do their thing? If there was a way to “help” this along or speed it up, I’d like to do it.

 

[hillrunner]

lol, I spend an awful lot of time trying to beat the cedars back, I would never consider helping cedars get thick. Once they become a solid wall, nothing, including deer, are going to penetrate them. It is very frustrating to have large blocks of your property rendered pretty well useless because it has become an impenetrable wall. No vegetation is able to grow below them which leads to massive erosion. I like a few cedars around but if left to grow wild they will choke out a property in a hurry. I am sure that some areas have not yet experienced what it looks like when cedars take over but trust me, it's ugly. I'm sure some of the other western IA guys know where I'm coming from.

As to your question, do you have a fair amount of existing cedars in the area already as a seed source? If so, I can't imagine you would need to do a thing. Cedars are tough and will grow well even with stiff competition. I noticed the other day that in my 2 year old switch grass planting I have thousands of the little buggers popping up already. Early spring applications of round up+ atrazine did nothing to slow them down.

 

[LoessHillsArcher]

I've transplanted cedars before with great success, nearly 100% survival even on trees up to 5ft tall. Dug up by hand with a spade. Never watered them after either. You can buy bareroot seedlings for dirt cheap from the Ames nursery or the MDC nursery, that'd be my best suggestion to get them to propagate faster. They seem to spread on their own quickly around here, even in pastures.

 

[LoessHillsArcher]

I am sure that some areas have not yet experienced what it looks like when cedars take over but trust me, it's ugly. I'm sure some of the other western IA guys know where I'm coming from.

There is such a thing as too thick on cedars too - I've spent time cutting lower branches off cedar thickets so they're travelable and have burnt many a cedar tree down. They're great when managed but awful when left to get crazy thick.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

lol, I spend an awful lot of time trying to beat the cedars back, I would never consider helping cedars get thick. Once they become a solid wall, nothing, including deer, are going to penetrate them. It is very frustrating to have large blocks of your property rendered pretty well useless because it has become an impenetrable wall. No vegetation is able to grow below them which leads to massive erosion. I like a few cedars around but if left to grow wild they will choke out a property in a hurry. I am sure that some areas have not yet experienced what it looks like when cedars take over but trust me, it's ugly. I'm sure some of the other western IA guys know where I'm coming from.

As to your question, do you have a fair amount of existing cedars in the area already as a seed source? If so, I can't imagine you would need to do a thing. Cedars are tough and will grow well even with stiff competition. I noticed the other day that in my 2 year old switch grass planting I have thousands of the little buggers popping up already. Early spring applications of round up+ atrazine did nothing to slow them down.

wont be large areas, 10 acres... ish but I want the thermal cover. yes there are cedars all over, but they are sparse.

As to your issue, light a match, problem solved. People are scared to burn switch too early. I have not found that to be an issue.... at all. My best stand ever was burned after the first year. BB & IG is a different story (wait till year 4). Second year switch.... me... burn baby burn. some can disagree, but that's my own personal experience.

As to your cedar thickets if you don't want them... again... light a match. Fire fire fire.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

I've transplanted cedars before with great success, nearly 100% survival even on trees up to 5ft tall. Dug up by hand with a spade. Never watered them after either. You can buy bareroot seedlings for dirt cheap from the Ames nursery or the MDC nursery, that'd be my best suggestion to get them to propagate faster. They seem to spread on their own quickly around here, even in pastures.

yeah ive done some of that. In this case I want to try something different. Maybe Ill try just killing the pasture and letting more soil be exposed.

 

[Hardwood11]

There is such a thing as too thick on cedars too - I've spent time cutting lower branches off cedar thickets so they're travelable and have burnt many a cedar tree down. They're great when managed but awful when left to get crazy thick.

So you make trails, and burn areas...can you or do you recommend dozing some out and then either replanting something else...such as switchgrass?

 

[LoessHillsArcher]

So you make trails, and burn areas...can you or do you recommend dozing some out and then either replanting something else...such as switchgrass?

What I've done is cut all the lower (generally dead) branches say 6' to the ground off. Still provides great thermal cover. There's zero ground cover for the deer but lots of overhead cover and wind breaks. Deer still seem to like these areas quite a bit. If you want to thin the cedars once they get that thick there's no easy way of burning them. You'd have to cut them down or doze them into a pile to get a fire going. Just not enough fuel on the ground to do it once all the grass is shaded out and gone. I like a mix of cedars and oaks, pure cedars stands are ok but diversity is better!

 

[Hardwood11]

Great idea, I need to spend some major time cutting cedars down there. From what I can tell, there is about 60 acres of heavy cedars, and some are just too thick...

 

[Daver]

Great idea, I need to spend some major time cutting cedars down there. From what I can tell, there is about 60 acres of heavy cedars, and some is just too thick...

In a situation like that ^^...you could do well to clear cut small pockets in the cedars. Whatever is in the soil will sprout and generally provide some sort of grass/ground cover. Those little "islands" in the cedars then become very preferred bedding areas. At least that is what I have heard.

 

[hillrunner]

I've transplanted cedars before with great success, nearly 100% survival even on trees up to 5ft tall. Dug up by hand with a spade. Never watered them after either. You can buy bareroot seedlings for dirt cheap from the Ames nursery or the MDC nursery, that'd be my best suggestion to get them to propagate faster. They seem to spread on their own quickly around here, even in pastures.

I have transplanted many cedars the same way. I like to look for trees around 2' tall. I would say 100% survival rate is pretty accurate

 

[hillrunner]

So you make trails, and burn areas...can you or do you recommend dozing some out and then either replanting something else...such as switchgrass?

Like was said, burning isn't really an option at that point. I use a forestry mulcher to remove them . This method turns the tree to mulch and leaves the roots in the ground which prevents erosion while the native grasses establish themselves. One of the problems with cedars is they are so rot resistant that if you just cut them down and walk away it becomes almost a petrified forest.

 

[Hardwood11]

In a situation like that ^^...you could do well to clear cut small pockets in the cedars. Whatever is in the soil will sprout and generally provide some sort of grass/ground cover. Those little "islands" in the cedars then become very preferred bedding areas. At least that is what I have heard.

Small pockets and maybe trails in between.

 

[Sligh1]

Is funny to see as I am heading home after thinning cedars all day (and taking out junk trees mainly). Ironic though. .
Agree - I love cedars too and do plant em. Definitely found me some work today where they were way past their prime.
On getting em going...... go pick “blueberries” . Can spread em but will take a year to stratify & break down seed coat. I looked into a “de-pulper” one time and method to stratify them. Thankfully I’m kinda overloaded now so I’m on other end of the curve on thinking em.
Plant em, seed em, release existing, spade em. All works.

Here’s another example of “past its prime”!! Ugghhh.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LoessHillsArcher]

Here some I dug up and transplanted a couple years ago. We’re about 8” tall when I planted them.

Then some more mature ones that aren’t too thick yet but are starting to fill out, may nip the lower branches off these some year

Nice when ya can but the cedars up to some native grasses, makes for a challenge burning. Gotta have good burn lines!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hardwood11]

Looks great Jordan, nice to have free trees!!

 

[Sligh1]

Yep- not super friendly in natives but we leave em when pop up. Get thick that if we burn a few - not a big deal. But- we have mowed around em and sprayed with water to keep em safe too. The ones I planted I did separate from natives for above reason - not Cooking them.

One of my small draws in 2005

Same draw of timber in 2016.

Moved some packed ones out with spade. To screen road.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

^^^^ Now that's what i'm talking about!!!

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

One of the areas I'm talking about.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[Sligh1]

Go in and spray around em if want grow quicker. Heck- could do Oust in backpack sprayer right NOW if u wanted. If u really wanted to be nutty- go throw some fertilizer on em big scoop go a long ways especially high N content. Will blow up if u do that.

Looking at that pic.... i think if that were mine.... I’d also plant some more things for diversity..... variety of shrubs, maybe add few more cedars & maybe even some trees in tubes possibly. I’d have it spaced out but filled in so every drop is growing some cover.