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Rifles for Iowas gun seasons

When "reasonable, open minded & educated folks" discuss things and really get to the bottom of all this garbage- it's pretty incredible the agreement we may really have. I would have thought at the start of this thread there's nothing tin roof would have said I'd be agreeing with. I was proven wrong and though we may disagree on many issues- interesting to boil it down to above where I see a lot of commonality, some agreement and as hunters: we really do need to debate but unify on some issues. It's a hard thing to do. But when politicians can unify on issues that are supported by farm bureau, special interests & donors - it sure clarifies that we as hunters need to stand somewhat united to push back on certain "lines" and "principles" & fight to protect our fragile resource that's constantly attacked and exploited.
 
I live in Indiana and we had this law passed around 5 or so years ago. I was neither for it or against it as I just continued to hunt with my shotguns and muzzleloader like I always have. Last year was the first year the high power centerfire rifles were legal and there was a list of certain ones that were allowed and on private ground only. Currently in session is a clean up of that bill to allow pretty much anything over .243 to be legal. They did amend it and clarify that no cartridge over 3" be allowed. This will more than likely pass and that will be added to the legal hunting weapons this next season. Our harvest summary did just come out and bunch of people thought the sky was falling and the deer herd would be decimated. That didn't happen. There was a shift in the weapon type for the total harvest, but there wasn't mass destruction like so many thought. Indiana has been in a reduction mode for the deer herd for a while now and the harvest this year was down from the previous year. I will say your bill will only open the door for more rifles in the future and it won't take long, but I don't see it as anything but another weapon of choice for hunters to use. Most that I know that used the rifles all killed deer under 100 yards. Another note, there were no hunting related accidents involving high power rifles last season either, which a lot of people thought there would be.
 
Interesting.
Some things to consider with Indiana (and I hear you and read through your post, thank you)....
Indiana has 20% of the state in forested area. Iowa has 6% (google, simple).
Iowa is 56,000 square miles. Indiana is smaller at 36k square miles.
Indiana has gone from about 1 million deer to different stats of 500-700k in the recent years.
Iowa: BALLPARK from a few sources, looks like the peak in mid 2000 was about 65ok deer and now it's showing around the 400k mark-(ish).

here's the interesting part of IN.... A lot of articles & "upset hunting groups" in Indiana with new Liberal regs and overkilling. I picked one article that's kinda in the "middle" I easily pulled up (pulled up tons). This article is saying "hey guys, we got problems but we're the ones to blame" (which I somewhat agree).....
http://wildindiana.com/declining-deer-herd/ Countless other articles about low & high population pockets, access harder to get, areas with few deer to hunt that got shot out, etc. A lot of views & sides to it as usual.

Iowa, TRAJECTORY..... Obviously.... POPULATION HAS GONE WAY DOWN vs the peak. Which is good & bad (some areas needed thinning, some areas got wiped out or hit very hard). I think any of us can agree the TRAJECTORY of access to good quality land and the amount of farms we hunt, have permission on and the ease of access to good ground has a major trajectory DOWN in the last 15-20 years, or even last 5-10 years. Lower populations & more difficult access. Maybe SOME would argue the lower populations are good. A lot hunt in areas without a whole lot of deer though too. THANK GOODNESS our population has STABILIZED over-all after we got rid of the INSANE Liberal Shed buck season, etc.
Every time we get hammered with new seasons, weapons, etc.... Sure, of course, we as hunters MUST ROLL OVER. "Sky won't fall", "not the end of the world", "More opportunities for everyone", WHATEVER. Other than the Absurd Shed buck season being removed (and TG season) - we NEVER put CONSERVATIVE constraints on Farm Bureau or the Politicians where they are saying "no big deal, sky won't fall" "oh, not the end of the world where conservation of the resource & quality of hunting gets better" when some Conservative regulation comes about.... which it NEVER DOES so I can't even try and make up some example here. Think about this.... Even the SHED BUCK SEASON was put forward as a 2 year plan and expressly created to be eliminated. Well, what happened after it was in place: we had a WAR on our hands to get it removed. Once it was here, it was ALMOST allowed to stay permanently. Politicians and DNR had such a war that they said "ok, we'll cut it back a week" after it was supposed to be GONE. Finally hunters organized and still amazes me of the miracle we got it removed AS PLANNED (a couple years too late). They fought to keep it.

So, ANY steps forward in Liberalizing our season (just like NEW TAXES FOR EXAMPLE) - is here to stay 99% of the time. Every time, no matter what it is, it'll be the same reply "ahh, no big deal, we need to live with it" "More opportunities for everyone!". How about this to everyone who supports "ANYTHING"..... Would you support something like this? LIMIT TO DEER SEASON: 4 month limit, 6 seasons, 5 weapons. Essentially, leave deer hunting alone, quit messing with it UNLESS the populations do something "crazy" and then we can adjust the regulations or bag limits in certain needed counties for example. I don't even know how to word it BUT - would any of you who support ANYTHING that Liberalizes our already Liberal season ever support leaving things the heck alone? The "DON'T MESS WITH DEER REGULATIONS" Bill for example? All that's gonna happen if we don't pull back on our season and at least keep the Liberal Season from being Liberalized more.... We're gonna just go down the road of all the other states that have outrage as to what has happened to their resource over the last decade (and why they all flock to my neighborhood from all these states). I don't want to be like Illinois, I don't wanna be like INDIANA, MI, whatever - leave this state alone.
 
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Skip, I agree with pretty much all your posts. I just don't know what we can really do. The government is going to do what is going to bring in the most revenue they can in the short hand. We know long run this is not good, but they are just at the immediate dollar signs. As access gets less and less fewer tags will be sold in say 10-15 years from now. How are they going to make up for that? They will look at the demand from NR applications and open it up to over the counter. The government and big money lobbyists could care less about our resources and conservation and truly about the whitetails themselves.
 
I agree with your feeling. And I know why you feel like that:
We have a never ending assault on liberalizing and exploiting our resource. We have too many special interests and politicians that will sell out our fragile resource with no regard for iowa being one of the last great hunting spots among most of the states that have been ruined by many of these same things & decisions. We all know what's coming because we've seen most states "ruined" and we see the citizens flee their states to come here. We've seen multiple states destroy the resource, hunting and managements before our own eyes. We understand this, politicians & special interests don't care or don't understand this.
The solutions in short or our way to fight back...
-unify as hunters to leave our regulations alone.
- join the Iba which can be a small lobby vs the Giants like farm bureau.
-attend the hunter meetings!!!! Spread the word. Help folks understand the big picture.
- more folks that write in, call, etc senators/house members & dnr. Side note: I personally would love to see some elected officials that are finally on our side of protecting our fragile resource.

You are right- we're down a slippery slope right now. Deer hunting in iowa could turn into EXTREMES of "elite only" sport or "few to no deer". Those are real extremes we honestly face if all the ground is bought and tied up, access gone (look at west central IL as example), etc. we also could do like some states where they go overboard on killing and there literally is few deer to hunt. Pendulums swing fast and hard in deer hunting. Memories are short and folks don't do a good job looking at the mistakes of other states. A lot of things could change for our fragile resource if we keep down this Liberal path.
Organize, support above, express other ideas, join forces as hunters to protect the resource. We can fight this. It's a long term fight where 90% of the time we're on the "defensive" & that's why we need more muscle against these special interests.
 
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The problem we have in Iowa is the majority of deer hunters aren't that passionate about deer hunting to fear the results of regulation changes. Most have seen many changes in the last decade or so, and it hasn't really affected their hunting that much. Sure the liberal doe tags lowered the population in areas, but most were happy to shoot as many does as they wanted. When the state decided to reduce the doe tags; that was fine with hunters also. Most hunters who shotgun hunt do so with the same groups year after year. Even access to the land is either owned by one or several of the groups members or permission acquired by one or two of the members. The majority of a hunting party is fine with what ever the leaders in their party decides. If not; they are soon looking for another party to join.

I realize this party hunting during shotgun season has changed some with the increase in recreational land being owned by individuals, but my point is most shotgun deer hunters are used to being told what to do by somebody. It's once a year when they can get together with friends and family to hunt. Many really could care less what weapon is allowed other than safety reasons. I'd also be willing to bet that many would be fine with shotgun hunting during the rut!
 
Another challenge is the number of Iowa hunters. I did a quick google search, found an old article from the paper that said in 2002 there were 190,000 resident hunting licenses sold (a drop of 9% at that time due to poor pheasant populations, the article claimed). So with a population of 3M and assuming the number of licenses sold have been flat, the number is that roughly 6% of Iowans buy a hunting license. Of that 6%, there is probably a fair amount who aren't real passionate or care to get involved with regulations. Heck, some of them probably don't even deer hunt. When statistics are presented, the usual gut reaction is to challenge them. So go ahead and find new numbers to crunch. It's not going to change the take home message here, which is that this will be an extremely steep uphill battle for those opposed to new regulations when they represent under 5% of the populous. Not saying to throw in the towel, just realize the challenge ahead. If you don't already own ground, buy it now to protect your future enjoyment.
 
There are two divergent things happening in Iowa that relate to the access issue. You are or will be actually seeing an INCREASE in public land. Yes it is true. There are conservation groups buying up ground and opening it up. This is all over the place, in dozens of counties. This is public record.

Second, you are going to continue to see land parcels get smaller and smaller. This is financially driven by sellers. People are taking large tracks and selling them in smaller ones. I see it everywhere. This opens up the market exponentially to more buyers. Example.... I saw an auction the other day.... selling a single farm in 12 or so tracts. So, on this front, you are seeing more land getting locked down by "deer hunters" that won't allow access to others either by permission or leasing.

How this all shakes out, I don't know. I think the NR tag issue is a game changer to keep an eye on. Farm Bureau is pushing that one big time.
 
Droptines said:
The problem we have in Iowa is the majority of deer hunters aren't that passionate about deer hunting to fear the results of regulation changes. Most have seen many changes in the last decade or so, and it hasn't really affected their hunting that much. Sure the liberal doe tags lowered the population in areas, but most were happy to shoot as many does as they wanted. When the state decided to reduce the doe tags; that was fine with hunters also. Most hunters who shotgun hunt do so with the same groups year after year. Even access to the land is either owned by one or several of the groups members or permission acquired by one or two of the members. The majority of a hunting party is fine with what ever the leaders in their party decides. If not; they are soon looking for another party to join.

I realize this party hunting during shotgun season has changed some with the increase in recreational land being owned by individuals, but my point is most shotgun deer hunters are used to being told what to do by somebody. It's once a year when they can get together with friends and family to hunt. Many really could care less what weapon is allowed other than safety reasons. I'd also be willing to bet that many would be fine with shotgun hunting during the rut!
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I think you are spot on with this. You also have to factor in that many of the party gun hunters never step foot in the woods other than the few days they spend hunting with their group. It makes it frustrating for those of us that are trying to manage property with plots, improved bedding areas, planting trees, etc. That's why over the years I've become very much against party hunting.
Guns during the rut would be the beginning of the end without a doubt as far as over all buck quality is concerned.
 
If more Non-Residents can get an archery tag every year/over the counter sales there will be a lot more access issues and SE Iowa rec land value would increase substantially and with that Iowa residents would suffer.
 
One thing leads to another! PA always had a center-fire rifle season which I don't participate in and now they just passed a law that hunters can use semi-automatic rifles! Where does it end?
 
203ntyp said:
One thing leads to another! PA always had a center-fire rifle season which I don't participate in and now they just passed a law that hunters can use semi-automatic rifles! Where does it end?
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It never will. Ever. Unless hunters say "ENOUGH" and organize and say stand firm "QUIT MESSING WITH OUR REGULATIONS!!!". Line in the sand, 4 months, 6 seasons and 5 weapons. No more.
The only time it will go in reverse is this....
-Hunters organizing and standing united (IBA, showing up for meetings, voicing to DNR & legislatures) against special interests that want to exploit the resource or eliminate it. Hunters also need to simply UNDERSTAND that this will never stop if we keep adding, messing and Liberalizing our regs, little by little or by leaps and bounds- all with the same end game or goals in mind of special interests.
-Deer hunting going down the tubes to a level compared to, say, pheasant hunting. It gets so bad folks quit going, tag sales decline (which, I think many doe tag sales already have) & folks simply take up other activities. Which, lack of access to good hunting is pushing them to that already.
-It gets to the point where private parties take management into their own hands, form coops with like minded neighbors, lease everything up, buy all the rec ground possible (it's not that much, 6% of the state being timbered), restricting access further, etc. Basically, what will happen, IMO, if regulations get "so out of hand" like has happened in COUNTLESS STATES!!!!..... MI, IL, MO, PN, MN, WI, etc (all getting hurt for a VAST VARIETY OF REASONS, REGS, TO DIFFERING DEGREES, ETC).... All that will happen is folks will do whatever it takes to tie up land to "set their own regulations" and over-ride all the stupid crap that gets pushed down from Special Interests via government. Which, could & likely will insulate those lucky groups that do things right BUT it will destroy the "everyday hunter" and their opportunity at good hunting. I seen this happen countless time folks, all over. I see these guys flocking from other states to Iowa, they have fleed the "crap states" to come here because we have one of the last good things going (along with a FEW other CONSERVATIVE & CONSERVATION MINDED STATES (1 buck rule, late gun season, limited access, conservative regs, etc) - few in # and dwindling) in Iowa. We need to protect it!! NO MAS POR FAVOR!!! PARAR! CESAR! TERMINAR!.... STOP!!!!!! We stop NOW & fight, stand firm, OR, in answer to above.... IT WILL NEVER END. GUARANTEED.
 
Non-typ. said:
Didn't you move here from a northern State?
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Yep. MI. Absolute disaster. I mean horrid. I have countless friends who have also moved here from MI. We saw what bad regulations have done to: quality of herd, opportunity, access, age structure, potential, etc. It is an absolute disaster. Anyone who is mildly serious about hunting in MI knows it's been destroyed, how bad it sucks and laughs at how bad it is. You guys who haven't been to other states- u have no idea how bad things can get with bad regulations.
 
Would you care to elaborate on what the regulations are and how they made the quality, opportunity, access, age, potential an absolute disaster? Just curious if you could be more specific.
 
^I can interject a bit on this one.

Funny story.... I use to tell a buddy of mine here in Iowa, who has a kid that is ate up with hunting, that instead of grounding he should send his kid to Michigan to hunt when he got out of line. That's my opinion of hunting in that state.....

MI: Early antlerless firearm season opens Sept. 16. That's a joke.
Independence hunt is Oct-19-22 (guns during pre-rut, yeah that's a great idea... NOT)
Gun season Nov. 15-30. Opener is the peak of breeding period and goes on for 2 solid weeks. This is the number one problem. They have had serious discussions about moving it to start the first Saturday of November and going 2 solid weekends. Can you imagine?! Gun season could be Nov 8-23 as an example
Immediately after gun season it goes into Muzzleloading. So the animals are hunted with a gun for a month straight without a break.
Later antlerless (all legal weapons) Dec. 18-Jan 1. (not as bad as Iowa's shed buck season, but not good)
2 buck state with a hunter density 10+ times that of Iowa. They really should go to a one buck rule like Ohio and others.
Full use of crossbows all of bow season (Not just the legal kills that are a problem, a crossbow with a scope is a poachers wetdream)

This is just on the regulation side.

Fighting the old school "brown it's down" crowd is another thing altogether (has changed a lot for the better with the rise of QDMA).

They don't do the party hunt thing so that is a positive I guess. That being said, I counted 250 gun shots before 10 am one Nov 15 about 10 years ago. Keep in mind, that's without a single deer drive! Bad news.
 
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DING DING DING! Bingo. Spot on ABOVE. Gun season middle of rut and 2 buck rule absolutely cripple the state. Absolutely the crossbow pressure and added seasons like above add to it as well. The state could be so much better.... They could at least make a HUGE advance if they got that gun season out of the rut and go to a 1 buck rule. That would at least allow it to be far more balanced, better quality, etc.
Let me describe what hunting MI is like. I spent my life until 23 years old there. I hunted maybe 15 counties, most in the bottom tier of the state, a few up towards the top & then my family has owned 160 acres in the UP for hunting since the 1930's.....
-Most seasons after understanding how to avoid people and find the reclusive bucks that found a sanctuary & made it past one season.... I MAYBE saw one 2.5+ year old every other year. Some years I saw none. Those years I saw approximately 5-7 bucks the whole hunting season and those were 1.5 year old bucks. Countless hunts seeing zero bucks, often times seeing no does.
-2 days into gun season, I rarely saw a deer. I went out after but most the time I'd go deerless without a sighting. I was "hardcore" outdoor lover as a kid so somehow I could take it. The vast majority of my buddies couldn't and they quit. I would say almost "everyone" I knew growing up that was a "serious hunter" left to go hunt: Ohio, Ontario, Iowa, Kansas, KY, other Canadian areas, etc. Some are even going to IN now or were as of a few years ago.
-A lot of folks had "buck poles", some years very few deer, other years stacked with 1.5 year old bucks.
-There is some GOOD MANAGED AREAS.... simply, enough guys got together to form COOPS, they all agreed to lay off the killing, limit the harvest, get population to XYZ levels, etc. They essentially said "no thank you" to all the DNR pushed down and self govern. Those are some pockets where you can find some 3-4 year old bucks and a "fun" amount of deer sightings. They tighten up access and police the heck out of it to keep poachers & trespassers out as well, NO ACCESS. I know the amount of guys locking ground up and forming coops has grown since I left. There's more pockets like that.
It's funny because I have a lot of friends that live in Ohio and they all complain about all the MI, PN and surrounding states bombarding their areas ;) They understand why but they sure pour in like crazy.
And again, in all fairness - I know the # of coops and guys locking down larger parcels to take management into their own hands has grown since I left many years ago. I know some pockets have gotten better. I can say, as a "hardcore" teenager, going out all season and seeing maybe 5 bucks with the amount of time I put in was a joke. Silliness. Why everyone I knew quit, left or just goes out to shoot one and be done (and just cut the rack off and nail it to a board in their garage). It is the best example of what horrible management & regulations do. It's awful. You honestly could not pay me $5,000 to leave Iowa and go hunt a week in MI during the rut. I'd rather stay in Iowa and watch the paint dry on my wall at home. Oh, to this day, we still have the land & cabin in the UP..... I think a buddy of mine shot a 6 point about 3-4 years ago there, a 1.5 year old, it was actually a pretty rare event! Down south another friend shot a 3.5 year old 140" deer and that was a pretty big deal and rare occurrence as well. A few guys each year I hear & see shoot a giant, it's almost the MI LOTTERY! It does happen, just incredibly rare.
Those of us who have lived in these places understand and probably why, ironically, some of the most hard-core conservationists who fight for our fragile resource could very well be from those other states we left the ruined hunting behind. We know what it's like & we want to preserve the great things Iowa does have going for it. I want my kids to be able to hunt a great state and preserve the opportunity, access & quality for them and everyone else. don't want to see it ruined like so many other examples. Don't let this fragile resource be exploited by the special interests.
 
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Next will be crossbows in the archery season. My guess is it will happen within the next three years. Missouri hunters opposed the hell out of it and it passed the first year.
 
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