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Sad

dedgeez said:
but I guess in the end my passion for hunting and wildlife will always trump my sympathetic side for big business.
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Couldn't agree more :way: I do all I can to better my farm's wildlife habitat and to educate those around me, but still, I am worried about our future :(
 
My Dad says that when he started in real estate back in the 60's that there was a law on the books that protected so many feet ( I thought he siad 30 or 40 feet) from the center of a water way, ie. rivers, streems, creeks, etc. He said if was for water quality and habitat for wildlife. Any guess if there was such a law and if there was, why in the world did they get rid of it??

I hate dry falls when the farmers get the crops out early because they always seem to start up he dozers and go to town!:confused: What took decades to grow takes minutes to erase with a dozer. $7 corn no doubt partially to blame.
 
Really guys? im a farmer and an avid hunter but hearing people complain about a landowner wanting to improve their land and in turn making more money is not something to call dumb and bad mouth about. Think of it this way... if you really hate someone at work that stands around and isnt good for much and your boss comes over and says "hey, i will fire this guy and give you his salary how does that sound?" what do you say..... knowing he has a family to support (like this cover that is being taken out supports wildlife) ?????? I understand that some of the land being broken up and farmed isnt the best type of soil but hey if you can make a dollar off of something that wasnt making anything before then in my books youre a dollar ahead and if anyone of you on here doesnt like money then you are crazy... just remember, land these days is an investment pure and simple. i hope nobody takes this the wrong way its jsut one opinion of many
 
It is sad when a guy makes a major investment then tries to make some money back off that investment and get blasted for it.

Its really simple, if you don't like to see the trees grubbed out then go to the bank, get yourself a loan and buy the land and you can do what ever you want with it. But my guess is that most of the folks complaing here can't or won't make the investment. So the question is if you won't make the investment why do you expect a farmer? Are farmers there to provide everyone with deer? C'mon man!
 
Sod Savage said:
It is sad when a guy makes a major investment then tries to make some money back off that investment and get blasted for it.

Its really simple, if you don't like to see the trees grubbed out then go to the bank, get yourself a loan and buy the land and you can do what ever you want with it. But my guess is that most of the folks complaing here can't or won't make the investment. So the question is if you won't make the investment why do you expect a farmer? Are farmers there to provide everyone with deer? C'mon man!
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Understandable. From a business stand point, a person makes an investment for some form of return... whether thats $ or something different such as a place for the family to hunt or a combo of anything.

There is a give and take with the land investment though. We're noticing this especially with our farms. Dad bought the farms, as an investment, and needs to pay the bank back for them. This doesn't happen by planting trees or taking crop land out of prodution. So he wants to be as profitable on his investment as possible and tile some land... on the other hand he wants to have some great hunting for the entire family.

Being a land owner you have the sole responsibility for taking care of the land. You've been blessed to have the opportunity to manage your investment the way you want... the land owner has to be responsible. There are a lot of cost and benefits to business choices that don't get brought into many decision making situations. For example, when we take pasture out of production, we could bulldoze and farm it and make X amount of dollars. From a dollars and sense stand point that would make us a profit... but one 'cost' we haven't weighed in is the fact we're breaking virgin ground, ground that hasn't EVER been disturbed by man. One benefit some wouldn't take into consideration by restoring the pasture to its native habitat is the fact it is going to be a rare place for people to enjoy hunting, walking, etc.

I'm not sure if any of this makes sense. I'm not trying to argue with anyone. Ultimately each landowner is responsible for taking care of the land they've been blessed with... some just see things differently and don't factor in loss of native habitat or ecosystems into their business choices for their farms. I'm sure you could find an example of decisions I make and don't take everything into consideration too.

I wish every farmer would practice soil conservation, have buffers, terraces, plant prairie where corn used to be, prevent errosion, etc. But truth is some people don't take those into consideration when making choices. To each their own... as much as it hurts to say it. But from what we're seeing, nature often gets over looked and is bull dozed away in minutes. I could go on and on about this, hard part is I can see both sides of the coin here. There is a give and take to being a land owner and investor, sadly nature often gets over looked and ends up loosing. It is hard to put a dollar amount on what it costs to bulldoze trees (besides the bulldozer hours obviously)... those things seldom get factored in.
 
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http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...armland-sale-sets-Iowa-record-20-000-per-acre

Since this thread started, I thought I would throw something else out there...a new land price record of $20,000/acre. I heard a long time ago that there are two things that drive every market...fear and greed. If anyone is saying this is "unbelievable", then it probablly is unable to sustain itself. This feels like Indiana in the mid-70s when fencerow to fencerow was the talk of the day. It wasn't long after that until it busted. Whoever said earlier that this wasn't about supply and demand like it used to be also reminds me of what Warren Buffet said right before the tech bubble of the late 90's busted..."since when does new business (ie tech comps) not need to make a profit and show long-term sustainable growth like companies of old." When food gets too expensive, the government will find a way to bring cheap food back (whether it is through ethanol reduction or some other way) . Do I like the way things are going, not anymore than the rest of you? Will they stay this way...nope, they never do.
 
I agree ITH, problem is... from a wildlife standpoint it may be to late. In this case, it could take a long time to fix what has been or will be broken.

@ Savage...... Man you just don't get it. No one is blaming you for wanting to make a profit, after all business is business, but there is a responsibility that comes along with owning land. Not being able to see past the end of your nose (greed), is never a good business model. I know lots of farmers that don't doze every square inch of their properties just to get an extra 10 rows of corn and they seem to be doing just fine. It is obvious that you came on here just for a confrontation based on your user name, so do us all a favor and make your first post your last. After all this is a WHITETAIL and HUNTING site! So if you have no empathy for wildlife or conservation than you probably won't enjoy it here anyway.
 
I figured I would get jumped on since I am sympathetic with farmers and that was my first post and all. Thats understandable.

For the record I don't plow up ever piece of ground, and cut down every tree. All I am saying it that its a free country and you are free to buy a piece of ground and do what you want with it as long as its within the law. Why don't you do yourself a favor dedgeez and buy a chunk of ground and do what you want with it?

Landowners have a resposibility to themselves and their familys first. Most of the farmers have been thru some pretty tuff times and you know what? You make hay when the sun is shining. Because in a few years these commodity price might not be there and then what? Chances are you will get some habitat back.

You talk about empathy and wildlife conservation but you show off a pickup load full of dead geese. That could be argued as just being greedy. Personally I could care less because I am sure you used the geese.

I didn't come here looking for a fight but to see all this complaing about what someone else is doing on thier own land needed to be put into prespective.

For the record I have shot 3 bucks in the last 10 years, they are all hanging on my wall. I shot one doe this year which is down from years previous because I don't need it for the freezer and don't want to see the deer population drop much more than it is right now. I just happen to be a farmer that hunts.
 
I agree with sod savage. You own it you have the right to do whatever you want with it. You don't own it don't bitch about it.

It's not like this is something new. Bulldozers weren't invented yesterday. this has been going on for decades and the wildlife has done just fine. So we are on the down swing as far as pop goes. it will come back always does. Can't blame the farmers for that. They didn't put the thousands of extra tags out there and they sure as heck didn't pull the trigger. no one is to blame more than the hunters themselves for the pop decreases. Just because a couple fence lines and ditches have been cleared out someone gets their panties in a bunch and has to rant about it on a website.

So next time you get offered a promotion at work with a 10% raise does that mean you will turn it down. Cause in my mind thats equivalent to telling a farmer he can't have that extra 10 rows of corn.
 
What we got a couple FB agents on here now? LOL I agree with the farmers. Doze everything you can. Get it all planted while the prices are high and it's paying. Make that hay before some of these subsidies (cough corporate welfare) are cut. Then when the bubble bursts you have that much more "tillable" to enroll in CRP or whatever other government program there is. Smart business.
 
jw_wildfire said:
It seems awfully short sighted to me to erase decades and decades of history, and such awesome wildlife habitat, to chase a spike in commodity prices. This is all to common across NE Iowa, especially this fall.

Post pics and the county if you are seeing this in your neck of the woods. Here is Floyd County.......


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Many a deer have died on at that spot.
 
Sod Savage said:
I figured I would get jumped on since I am sympathetic with farmers and that was my first post and all. Thats understandable.

For the record I don't plow up ever piece of ground, and cut down every tree. All I am saying it that its a free country and you are free to buy a piece of ground and do what you want with it as long as its within the law. Why don't you do yourself a favor dedgeez and buy a chunk of ground and do what you want with it?

Landowners have a resposibility to themselves and their familys first. Most of the farmers have been thru some pretty tuff times and you know what? You make hay when the sun is shining. Because in a few years these commodity price might not be there and then what? Chances are you will get some habitat back.

You talk about empathy and wildlife conservation but you show off a pickup load full of dead geese. That could be argued as just being greedy. Personally I could care less because I am sure you used the geese.

I didn't come here looking for a fight but to see all this complaing about what someone else is doing on thier own land needed to be put into prespective.

For the record I have shot 3 bucks in the last 10 years, they are all hanging on my wall. I shot one doe this year which is down from years previous because I don't need it for the freezer and don't want to see the deer population drop much more than it is right now. I just happen to be a farmer that hunts.
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This isn't about you or I or the 1 piece of ground that we may own. That's one of the main problems with peoples perspectives on wildlife management. You have to look at the big picture not just what happens on your own land. You are absolutely correct that what a person wants to do with his or her land is their prerogative and they should have the right to do what they want with their piece of the pie. I don't believe anyone is arguing that? The problem we have in Iowa with our deer and pheasants populations is bigger than just your farm, or county, it's a statewide issue that is not being managed correctly and people need to realize that. Commodity prices are near an all time high and you have a point about making hay well the sun shines, but how much hay do you need to make before you are content? This is where my comment about greed comes into play.

You made a comment about the geese in the truck in my avatar, and interestingly enough that is a perfect example what we could be doing in Iowa with our deer herd and habitat. Goose and duck populations are booming right now due to major conservation efforts to establish and maintain habitats for nesting, feeding, predation control, etc. Canada and some of the prairie states have implemented programs for this and are working with some of the farmers to set aside land strictly for the wildlife. Yes they are compensated for these programs, but not nearly comparable to what they could get crop farming. Difference is, these farmers care about the wildlife and want to see it thrive, and they also realize there can be perfect balance between making money, and having wildlife. This is what alot of guys in Iowa have forgotten in recent times and frankly I doubt some of them care.

I don't have a dislike for farmers or farming. It is a great profession that provides alot of people in Iowa and across the country a very handsome living. I personally know a bunch of them that don't feel the need to level habitat to make an extra buck, and I just wish more guys would adopt that attitude. Sure, it's a longshot but if I'm not passionate about the future of Iowas hunting opportunities, then who will be? Like I said.... this is way bigger than just you and I and I hope more people start to realize that. It's nice to hear that you are a hunter and that you have been laying off a bit on the does. I hope you are still enjoying yourself, and I really hope it's important enough to you that you will want to provide your kids with the same opportunities that you have had. If all that someone can leave their kids is money and not provide them with any morals or ethics than imo, they've lived a pretty empty life!
 
Hawk32.... you are absolutely correct that it is not the farmers fault that the deer herd is struggling. There are many pieces to that pie and hunters, state officials, and land owners are all at fault to some extent. We as hunters pull the trigger, officials set the limits and seasons, land owners have a role in providing or not providing cover. It is a complex situation, but in my opinion, if you are not part of the solution, than you are part of the problem.
 
Hawk32 said:
I agree with sod savage. You own it you have the right to do whatever you want with it. You don't own it don't bitch about it.
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No one is questioning your "RIGHT" to do it, but just because you have the right doesn't mean that it is responsible land stewardship. Buffering water runoff from ag land is without a doubt the responsible land practice. Poor land stewardship by current and previous generations have cost Iowa farmers far more profits from loss of top soil than those trees they are clearing.
 
Prices are high right now, an easy way to get into the crp programs if you ask me for us habitat managers since everything is gettig planted now.

Been many a fence row cleared out to gain a few acres of grain.
 
With so many goverment programs (taxpayer funded) out there these days that benefit wildlife it's a shame more guys don't utilize them instead of ripping out the fencelines and woodlots just to get that extra kernal. In todays farming it's all about the numbers of acres you farm it my opinion it is turning into factory farming. Most farmers are strickly row crop farmers with not much to do in the summer other then make the ground they rent look good by mowing everything in sight just to make the landlord happy so the guy down the road doesn't slip in and take it from them.I can remember when dang near every field had a nice draw (waterway) in it and there were pheasants in them those days are gone never to come back we have to tile everything now.
 
bloodhoundhandler said:
...I can remember when dang near every field had a nice draw (waterway) in it and there were pheasants in them those days are gone never to come back we have to tile everything now.
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I can remember those days too. BUT, I also remember days when we could kick over 150 birds out of one our 17 acre CRP / wetlands patch back when I was in high school nearly every time we pushed it. THIS year, I walked through there after we got that snow the other weekend. Did not see a single pheasant track, and since I was in high school, that farm and the surrounding area has not lost an acre of CRP and only one fence line that never had any grass or brush in it anyway. In fact, when I was in high school there were no food plots or corn left standing, and now there are a couple food plots and I have left standing corn out there for the past 6 or 7 years and almost all of the corn is still left in the spring. If you can tell me how farmers are the main reason for the demise of our pheasant population as we know it, you know something I don't because that particular section has a drainage ditch that goes across the whole thing with a full 50 yard wide buffer strip both sides and nearly 100 acres of CRP. I think the winters and spring hatching conditions are 90% to blame and I have noticed way more birds of prey, skunks, and other varmints than I have ever seen.

With commodities what they are now, of course everything is going to get tiled. You can always plug a tile later if you want to restore a wetland or enroll in CRP. The tens of thousands of feet of tile we put in this year, it has already paid for itself in just this one year! There is no way any farmer isn't going to put in tile and make improvements to the ground when commodities are this high. You'd be nuts not to.
 
Another problem with all of this waterway dozing and tile work is flooding.. doing this stuff on all of these farms has a much wider effect... the water can't seep into the ground and get into the water table for the most part because there is tile everywhere. Im not knocking on farmers because i have family that farm but they honestly don't care about the wildlife, its just the sad truth that to most farmers these days the $$ trumps all.
 
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