Shed buck season is in the way back!

Discussion in 'Legislative Forum' started by Rjack, Feb 11, 2017.

  1. Rjack

    Rjack Active Member

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    I personally don't think this is a money issue - at least from tag sales. If there were 20 counties and they sold 500 more tags at $13, that is just $130,000. That isn't going to be a significant swing in the DNR budget. Add a $1 or $2 to all tags and that would be well over $130k.

    I believe they think they need to decrease the deer in those counties, and believe the rifle season is the best way to do it. Technically it is a "late" season with rifles allowed in some of the counties.

    It was noted 20% of the deer killed in the special CWD season were shed bucks. All of us would agree the late season shed bucks are way under reported.
     
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  3. Fishbonker

    Fishbonker Well-Known Member

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    I believe they are getting pressure to reduce the herd, in those areas in particular and the state in general, and I believe they are getting pressure not only from producers, insurance companies (FB), Big AG (again FB), shooting sports (NRA et.al.) and the politicians supported by these groups. If you ask me what the DNR guys believe, and I'm only guessing (and hoping) that they are good with the number as is and if it were up to them the season would never happen. the state as a whole is at the desired deer population goals. A few pockets hold more particularly in the areas of the not yet proposed season. They even said yesterday that they are unable to give county by county populations. The best they can do is for an entire WMA. So to single out particular counties in a WMA for increase antlerless harvest is counterintuitive. Perhaps there is more shooting sports pressure than I originally thought. Thinking about the straight wall cartridge bill, who is pushing that? The shooting sports. The dots are there, I wonder if they are connectable?
     
  4. Ishi

    Ishi PMA Member

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    If I remember right they also said they were going to increase the number of anterless permits to the counties in NE Iowa.
     
  5. bigbuckhunter88

    bigbuckhunter88 PMA Member

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    I can't find the harvest data for 2016. But in 2015 the majority of counties in question didn't even sell out of doe tags, and the number of does reported was well below the number of tags sold. I think the majority of hunters are finally realizing that the population doesn't need to keep being demolished, but when the rifle season was going on there were people who would fill the backs of trucks just to do so and could care less how the population was.
     
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  6. Fishbonker

    Fishbonker Well-Known Member

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    Yup.
     
  7. Ishi

    Ishi PMA Member

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    Nailed it!!!! They want to put the future of our deer herd into the hands of slayers that could care less..... not a good combination.
     
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  8. Hardwood11

    Hardwood11 Active Member

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    I'm not interested in starting a fight here, but with CWD, EHD, and proposing a antlerless rifle season... would it not make some sense that allow hunters like myself--NR landowners---to buy a few affordable doe tags?

    Since 20-25% of the land is owned by NR, in my opinion it would sure make sense from a management perspective?
     
  9. Oct-Lull

    Oct-Lull Member

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    Even if landowners and responsible hunters don't do any more than is necessary in each area there are always going to be outsides from the bigger cities that will come and go crazy, along with those locals that don't care. I have a close friend that is in the cwd zone in Minnesota that owns a farm and tons of people from out of the area poured in to slaughter anything and everything. Way more people than the regular gun seasons. Most of the locals are against it. Not much different, I myself hunted one day of the first late doe season and we carefully killed 2 deer then never went again. Was a bad choice looking back but I knew of a group less than a mile from me that rumored to have killed 20+ shed bucks. Same groups that hunt from day one of gun thru the end of the season, they just don't care, all about shooting I guess
     
  10. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Well-Known Member

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    100% - example you can see on almost any block in my areas that have multiple landowners.... Group forms from an hour North "hey Jim Bob, you got an AR right? Wanna go blast a bunch of deer this weekend? It's a $hit-show, ton of fun and shooting!". They load up and pound farms, I've seen the rifle crews doing drives and unloaded incredible amounts of firepower at 200-500 yards, often on running deer (no way do you know if it's a shed buck or button buck). I've seen the piles of shed bucks, especially during the colder winters. I've seen the EXTRA piles of button bucks that wouldn't have been taken as well if the season wasn't in place.
    There will NEVER be a lack of "SHOOTERS", NEVER!!!! I firmly believe, you have a county with 20 deer left in the whole county, you give out 20 deer tags and there's a group of guys that will go shoot em. It's a sad reality. Most the folks want a "good time" (fine, just has to be done in other ways) and they don't understand or care how it impacts the herd, biology, the small landowners, regular hunters and deer herd. they don't care, never will & I don't really blame them.... I blame the DNR for caving (if they do) and the bought and paid for Politicians for caving (if they do). (And yes, I blame us fellow hunters if we sit on the sidelines and let these clowns destroy vast sections of recovering deer hunting areas!!! - we better look in the mirror on this one!!!). We beat em before, need to beat em again!!!!
    EHD was a kick to the nuts for me, I'll admit... BUT.... After Shed buck season was removed a couple years ago.... I really was finally getting the statewide "OPTIMISTIC FEELING" like we're getting back to "good hunting" that's balanced and has a chance to be "special again". This could reverse that course so fast your head would spin. This MUST be stopped in its tracks and YOU can have a part in that!!!!!!!! WE NEED YOU!!!!!!
     
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  11. Fishbonker

    Fishbonker Well-Known Member

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    Kinda reminds me of a book I read once about a BigPharma company that caused a disease that they had the only cure for.
     
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  12. Hardwood11

    Hardwood11 Active Member

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    OK
    I think I or maybe (we) can figure out some of the reason why the January rifle season is back into play.
     
  13. Fishbonker

    Fishbonker Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it's kinda like doctors knowing what's causing the disease and it's associated symptoms; the surgeon says "cut" and the oncologist says "chemo". Each choice repugnant to the patient. To extend the metaphor a bit further, in the hospital there is what's called a "Tumor Board" where a group of physicians from many specialties gather to discuss specific cases where there isn't a clear cut "this is the best thing to do for patient X". The Tumor Board meetings can get quite heated with usually surgeons and oncologists disagreeing and it is up to the other specialists to help decide the proper course of treatment. So it is kind of like that with late antlerless season, there are several cures to the (in this case supposed over population, to deer hunters the numbers are OK) problem regardless of the cause. It remains to be seen how all of the competing opinions will influence the DNR in their course of action.
     
  14. MN2IAGuy

    MN2IAGuy Member

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    I agree! NRLO/NR would pay much more for those licenses and hunt during the regular seasons on ground that really needs more deer management. They could forget about the late season shed buck rifle massacre forever.
     
  15. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Well-Known Member

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    Man, hearing more and more, I sure hope you ALL get off your butts and show up to these meetings. In any way, in your words and however you see it - we have got to quit changing our regulations, quit Liberalizing our deer seasons. Like I posted in the straight wall cartridge post right now..... 6 deer seasons, 4 months to kill deer, 5 weapons to kill the deer - this is too much as it is now. Access is growing increasingly worse every year. Folks, wake the heck up. If I go to this DNR session and all I hear is questions about the Red breasted yellow belly Warbler Photographing season, why the DNR is releasing Cougars in Iowa and changing Teal season by 1 day - over and over and over - we only have ourselves to blame. When the DNR has said for years, "Deer hunters, we agree with you but we don't hear the feedback and guys don't voice this stuff during the meetings" - it's US who is to blame when we get steamrolled by special interest, simply because we got completely lazy. This is 1 hour. You email everyone you know. Explain, we can't keep screwing with the regs. Post on FB, have people show up and write in to the email address here and your legislature. Do this or we all lose. This is EASY and the obstacle is getting off your butt & spending an hour on this. Motivate yourselves, spread the word or sit there for 3-4 months all fall complaining and posting on here later "ya, season kinda sucks, what happened, not seeing much. I lost permission, what public land is good. Which part of Iowa still has low pressure and big bucks?". Get off your butts!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1) Email everyone you know. 2) FB, Twitter, whatever - get everyone you have access with to go to meetings and spend 1 hour. If they love hunting, DEMAND IT! 3) Write in to this guy on 1st page and your legislature to quit messing with deer regs!!!! (I think we need a post with email addresses). 4) You all reading this, you frigin better get to these meetings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  16. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 PMA Member

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  17. Blaster

    Blaster PMA Member

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    Does anyone have a list of what counties will be affected?
     
  18. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Well-Known Member

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    THANK YOU!! ALSO: Tyler.Harms@dnr.iowa.gov - DRN - wants and NEEDS to hear from hunters!!!!
    Quoted as saying something like "If everyone is a little pissed with changes, we found the right balance" or something like that- can't find exact quote.
    WELL..... I'm PISSED the way it is..... 4 months, 6 deer seasons and 5 weapons. So, just because folks have rolled over and stopped voicing up over the status quo, sure doesn't mean the balance isn't BEYOND there already. Example: how many folks are PISSED off about not having access to good hunting land AS IT IS NOW? How many find it extremely difficult to find mature bucks AS IT IS NOW? How many of us feel like right now there's too many seasons, deer drives, shot opportunities at our deer herd, etc?
    So starting a NEW DEBATE ADDING NEW LIBERAL SEASONS, they will get "NEW FLACK" from both sides. BUT - it's the side of Special Interests that like Farm Bureau that are starting the fight to tilt the scale in the wrong & Liberal direction and we have to again voice up to fight back. Is that "BALANCE"?.... Them bringing up something we have to defend just to keep the "DECENT" system we have now in tact? The line in the sand is NOW and it's a line that's already way too far out already IMO.

    Here's the starting point BEFORE THIS NEW DEBATE....
    Farm Bureau, Special Interest, Insurance, etc: EVERY DEER DEAD, any inch closer to that and any ground gained is a WIN. (until they are all gone, we'll express that we are "PISSED" & ask for more).
    HUNTERS: The seasons, access, fragile resource are already OVER EXPLOITED. It's hard to find places to go and we could stand to reel back some of the madness we already have to deal with.

    So, any new fight, anything the OTHER SIDE brings up, we just have to compromise huh? Both sides end up being pissed off & that's good by definition then?!?!?! WRONG - unless the NEW regulations pushed it the OTHER DIRECTION (WHICH ALMOST NEVER HAPPENS!!!!) - all we're doing is LOSING GROUND, PERIOD! THAT'S NOT BALANCE!!!! AND TYLER NEEDS TO POLITELY HEAR AND UNDERSTAND THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  19. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 PMA Member

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  20. Ishi

    Ishi PMA Member

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    If I remember right when talking to Tyler and from his response to my email is yes. He said its just a proposal for now and the committee will decide....... but I would dare say its a done deal and they are just greasing us up. I hope I'm wrong.

    Attend the meetings, send emails and VOICE your opinions on this.
     
  21. letem grow2

    letem grow2 New Member

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    It appears that their are three different trains of thought here. First; this is money issue. The state wants to sell more tags so as to make more money. Second; it’s a population issue and the mantra is that we need to reopen the late season for population control. Third; there is a shooting sports contingent that wants to be able to shoot there rifle's at deer.

    Starting with the thought that this is a money grab. In an earlier post someone pointed out that a couple dollar increase on all tags would bring in more money for the state than the tag sales for a late season would. I think this is a great point and one that we as hunters need to get behind and push for as an alternative to reopening the late season and to the ridiculous number of extra doe tags in certain counties. I have felt for years that deer tags are extremely cheap. When you compare the money I/we spend on guns, bows, clothes, ammo, food plots, travel, land and on and on and then we buy a tag to harvest a deer for $28 or $13 and can hunt for weeks with that tag. OMGosh have you paid for a 2 hour movie lately! When I think about the money the state left on the table during the hay days by practically giving doe tags away it makes my head spin. I would be more than happy to spend a few more dollars for a tag if we could forego the silly late season.

    The second idea is that we need to reopen the late season for population control. This one I really don’t get; I thought it was pretty much agreed (by both sides) that the population numbers were at or even below “desired” numbers across the state... Unless their has been another study done that I am not aware of, the 2009 Deer Study Advisory Committee report stated, and I quote “ The current management objective is a stable deer population at the approximate level that occurred in the mid to late 1990s. This time period was chosen because the acceptance of deer numbers was favorable among many of the stakeholder groups at that time. At that level the population would be capable of supporting a harvest of between 110,000 and 130,000 deer annually under the new reporting system.” Well guess what folks, I had to go back to 2012 to find a harvest number that was in this range and all harvests after 2012 have been below this range. As a side note, the shed buck harvest increase by over 60% during the late rifle season that year... Nobody anywhere is going to convince me that the harvest numbers being well below that range are due to a lack of deer tags or the opportunity to hunt deer. It’s lack of deer numbers!

    The third thought is that shooting sports folks are pushing for a late rifle season. All I can say to this one is if the DNR is going to give up on deer management so people can shoot deer with a high power rifle than I give up!

    As it relates to QDM, if you sat down and try to come up with the dumbest possible way to control deer population thru hunting you would instate a late season antlerless hunt with rifle's. How about the powers that be think outside the box for a minute and look at other ways to control population in specific areas (if they feel that is still needed). How about an earn a buck tag program or make some unfilled tags good for additional seasons like they do with youth tags (which I think was a great idea). Again this would only be for specific areas. There is more than one way to skin a deer and the late season rifle hunt is a dull knife.

    I echo what others have said, go to the meeting next week and/or email this Tyler fellow and go one step further and email the Natural Resources Commission members. No doubt we need to speak up!
     

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