nemohunter
Member
Crossbow contains 2,4 d, it is a 50/50 mix with diesel, will kill almost everything that it touches when mixed
50/50 mix works for me. Big trees girdle it and spray in the cut. On cut downs ,spray on stump.
Buck-Man
Member
Im from IL and would just like to know what trees to cut down . Do foresters or other agencies usually offer this for free or is their a set fee per acre to walk your woods and mark which trees to fell.
I dont want to sign up for any programs or am I concerned about selling the trees.
I dont want to sign up for any programs or am I concerned about selling the trees.
2,4D, etc are not expensive! mixing with Diesel I have had problems with it all mixing together. Heck, if you tried 2,4D, water & round-up - that would be cheap! BUT- I usually just buy pathway, not that pricey at all.... All it is though is Picloram (Tordon) & 2,4D- that's it. All pre-mixed.
What trees to cut down?!?!? I would find out the common trees in your area of course- you'll then likely realize you have stuff like elm, ironwood, bitternut hickory, etc. All of those trees and several others (you hear about 50/50 on guys wanting to kill thorny locust) I wipe out if I walk by em OR if I'm within 50 yards of some really nice walnut, oak, etc - I'll wipe the area out of those junk trees. Find out what's a "common weed tree" in your area: little value, no value to deer/wildlife, prolific, common, invasive, disease prone, etc. Butcher it (IMO) & let the good stuff flourish. Especially oaks which are not very shade tolerant.
What trees to cut down?!?!? I would find out the common trees in your area of course- you'll then likely realize you have stuff like elm, ironwood, bitternut hickory, etc. All of those trees and several others (you hear about 50/50 on guys wanting to kill thorny locust) I wipe out if I walk by em OR if I'm within 50 yards of some really nice walnut, oak, etc - I'll wipe the area out of those junk trees. Find out what's a "common weed tree" in your area: little value, no value to deer/wildlife, prolific, common, invasive, disease prone, etc. Butcher it (IMO) & let the good stuff flourish. Especially oaks which are not very shade tolerant.
Buck-Man
Member
You name it I ive got um, mostly white oaks I believe ,just cant figure out the rest to well. Im in southern IL .100 acres but 75 is woods.
I would like to have someone walk through and mark a few hundred I can fell for cover/ sanctuary areas.
Just not sure if thats an option. Or if It has to be put in a program.
I would like to have someone walk through and mark a few hundred I can fell for cover/ sanctuary areas.
Just not sure if thats an option. Or if It has to be put in a program.
dbltree
Super Moderator
Weed trees are usually easy to kill via double girdle, some species like shingle oak are easy to kill with a single girdle but hickory, elm and hackberry require two complete girdles and deeper is better. You can poison them as well but never use poison on oaks as their roots grow together and you can kill several trees by poisoning one!
Crossbow will certainly work, use Remedy/Relegate/Garlon mixed with dsl fuel (all same product with different names) Keystone Pest solutions, Ebay are good sources for small quantities or order thru your local co-op
There are no REAP funds available in most counties, funding was slashed this past year and not sure when or if funding will be increased. The IDNR forestry/foresters funding has also been cut so they have to work on federal programs to keep their jobs.
If you have problems getting a forester to get back with you, contact someone higher up the chain.
Aaron Lumley aaron.lumley@dnr.iowa.gov
and/or Paul Tauke Paul.Tauke@dnr.iowa.gov
There are funds available thru EQIP which can be applied for thru NRCS so you might go that route all payment rates are lower for Forest Stand Improvement then under REAP
2013 Iowa EQIP practices
Some NRCS techs will use Brush Management Forest Openings, Timber Edge Feathering etc to get into higher payment rates so study the guide and know what to apply for.
Paul,
As long as we are on the subject of killing trees:
My uncle told me that it was possible to kill a tree by drilling a half inch hole, 6" deep, in the trunk at a downward angle and filling the hole with something like tordan. He chose to do this because of the tendency of some thorny locusts to come back 10 fold if you cut the and treat the stump. Do think this is a workable approach if your not in a hurry to get rid of the tree. I remember as a kid, after the tree was dead, we would put a few old tires and stack brush around those locust trees and the fire would burn off the thorns.
I've have a well worn copy of "Forest trees Of Illinois" for 30 years. If you need help identifying a tree this is your answer. I'm sure there isn't much difference between Illinois and Iowa ,tree wise. For $10.00 ya can't beat it!
https://pubsplus.illinois.edu/C1396.html
As long as we are on the subject of killing trees:
My uncle told me that it was possible to kill a tree by drilling a half inch hole, 6" deep, in the trunk at a downward angle and filling the hole with something like tordan. He chose to do this because of the tendency of some thorny locusts to come back 10 fold if you cut the and treat the stump. Do think this is a workable approach if your not in a hurry to get rid of the tree. I remember as a kid, after the tree was dead, we would put a few old tires and stack brush around those locust trees and the fire would burn off the thorns.
I've have a well worn copy of "Forest trees Of Illinois" for 30 years. If you need help identifying a tree this is your answer. I'm sure there isn't much difference between Illinois and Iowa ,tree wise. For $10.00 ya can't beat it!
https://pubsplus.illinois.edu/C1396.html
dbltree
Super Moderator
Works very well on locusts and I assume would on other trees as well, but most folks drill 2-3 holes only a few inches deep and give each a squirt of Tordon. You might experiment and see how little or much is required.
Remember never poison oaks as the poison will translocate to other oaks thru the roots
risto2351
Well-Known Member
Sligh where are you getting your Pathway from?
letemgrow
PMA Member
Hmmmm, I don't remember that tree
Going to make a great stand location in about 10 years
I'd like to throw something out here and get some opinions. I've got a small property I bought almost 25 years ago in Pike county Illinois . The property has not been logged since I have owned it and as best I can recall it looks like it might have been logged 10-15 years before I bought it. I've got a pretty good mix of everything ,with some nice white,red oak ,cherry,hickory. I have been trying for several years to get some help on a timber stand improvement , but government money is scarce. I can't seem to find any info on what species to remove on my own. I recently turned 64 and have been thinking why not have a payday and log the property, which would fit it to my desire to improve deer hunting by thickening things up. It's probably time to take out some of the more marketable tree's. My neighbors say there is no such thing as a honest timber buyer. I don't really know one way or the other. Anybody care to offer some advice? Do's and don't's?
Mike
Mike
goatman
I hunt days ending in Y
Yes find a reputable forester. Have a appraisal done. He will put your trees out on bids and take care of everything for a %. He will write up a contract for the high bidder and cover the in's and out's. Also he can give advice on TSI. Don't let a logger talk you into anything.
Forestryguy
Member
Sound advice. I see and hear it all time about people getting paid low dollar for their timber. Timber buyers/Loggers are out to make a dollar also. If they paid top dollar they would go out of business. I will agree that there are some pretty shady individuals in the business though.
If you are wanting to sell, try to get it done fast. The cutting season is going to be over before you know it. The mills are getting overstocked, in storage area, and will start cutting back on putting wood in the yard.
Good advice. Private Forester will be your route MOST LIKELY. make sure you find one you feel like you trust. He'll likely get around 10% of the sale so really push him to get as many bids as possible. If he's "REALLY GOOD", he should know the names of 10-20 timber buyers who are quality folks and he also should have the knowledge to know the group to AVOID and not even allow to bid on your ground (guys who may do dishonest things, damage your land, wreckless, etc, etc). This absolutely is a reality and a good forester should know all this.
2nd, you really need to think about how aggressive you want to go and be very careful. Again, get info from forester you trust. I mean, loggers will always talk you into selling 19-23" DBH Veneer Walnuts (many foresters may too so they get more $ in their share) & IMO- you do not want to allow that to happen, my strong opinion. (lumber grade, or regular branched & defect walnuts you can sell in that range & I would). Personally, unless you are really hurting and don't care about ravaging the ground, I'd be conservative on your harvest and don't pick "green tomatoes". I'd also ask him to TRY and mark as many lumber/poor quality trees as possible and see if someone would take them. For sure can happen if you have upland timber sale (oaks, hickory, etc). It's a common problem to have timber "top ended" - taking all the premium stuff and leaving the junk.
Finally, absolutely, 100%, get in there and TSI the whole place - you will have all this new open real estate for new trees, do all in your power to free up the good stuff and remove the junk so you transform your farm for generations into a wildlife & high valued timber farm. It's UNREAL the difference in value TSI will make over a generation, incredible. Good luck!
2nd, you really need to think about how aggressive you want to go and be very careful. Again, get info from forester you trust. I mean, loggers will always talk you into selling 19-23" DBH Veneer Walnuts (many foresters may too so they get more $ in their share) & IMO- you do not want to allow that to happen, my strong opinion. (lumber grade, or regular branched & defect walnuts you can sell in that range & I would). Personally, unless you are really hurting and don't care about ravaging the ground, I'd be conservative on your harvest and don't pick "green tomatoes". I'd also ask him to TRY and mark as many lumber/poor quality trees as possible and see if someone would take them. For sure can happen if you have upland timber sale (oaks, hickory, etc). It's a common problem to have timber "top ended" - taking all the premium stuff and leaving the junk.
Finally, absolutely, 100%, get in there and TSI the whole place - you will have all this new open real estate for new trees, do all in your power to free up the good stuff and remove the junk so you transform your farm for generations into a wildlife & high valued timber farm. It's UNREAL the difference in value TSI will make over a generation, incredible. Good luck!
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150 Class
Well-Known Member
From the deer's standpoint, either as an attractive food source (it tastes good to them) or nutritionally, what are the best trees for browsing deer? I know some are better than others and it might be in here already, some they go after and others they avoid until nearing starvation, but my quick search didn't find me the answer.
So, you have nutrition from 2 sources..... Browse on the actual plant (young trees and shrubs) and the mast crop (acorns). "Tastes good" for acorns, lots of information points towards white oaks being preferred, largely due to low tannin amounts. But, I've also seen reds be very attractive and having more caloric value (from my back of brain recollection). So, for mast, I'd simply go with the "both approach" on reds & whites. I'd free up as many as you can, preferring white oak over a red due to timber value and acorn value though. I also don't mind having Shingle oak around. Member of the red oak family, it produces every year and deer do like the little acorns. Burr are part of white oak, same as swamp oak and liked by deer as well. My least favorite oak for both timber & wildlife is the BLACK OAK. High tannin content, bitter, little value for timber, etc. But, I'd free up as many nice growing oaks as possible, especially if against stuff with no wildlife value and lower timber value. I almost entirely eradicate areas competing with oaks & walnuts of: Bitternut hickory, elm, chemically treat prickly ash if you have the energy & bad, poor quality maple & a few others. For timber value, I will keep some nice shagbark hickories but I thin them and only keep a few real nice ones- they are great for hinging, often choke oaks and often grow in massive thickets.
SO, mast value.... Any oak really.
For browse.... If you are hinging the daylights out of inferior oaks competing with good oaks, hinging hickory trees, etc - you will create really nice browse there as well from both the tree sprouting back and all the new growth from sunlight. the new sunlight will open areas up to so many desired plants it's a massive list..... Everything from wild viny peas to poison ivy (yes, I know bad) to honeysuckle (often erradicated and not wanted) to young oaks & other trees they will eat.
Remember, deer are grazers and probably eat somewhere around 40-60 different plants and food sources on your farm (guesstimate but probably somewhat accurate). the more area you allow new growth, the more browse and tonnage of food available. The actual tonnage of food a forest can produce if freed up is staggering & impressive. I have also read on many occasions, no matter the food plots a guy plants, the amount of crops, over 50% of a deer's diet is comprised of "natural or forest browse" & it's good for them. that's why a shaded out forest isn't the best place for deer, by far. A lot of science and thought to it BUT if you're competently marking & freeing your good quality trees, most the time the rest of this will fall into place and you'll have immense benefits you don't realize are occuring. get that saw out after a tree expert tells you what to cut!!!!
SO, mast value.... Any oak really.
For browse.... If you are hinging the daylights out of inferior oaks competing with good oaks, hinging hickory trees, etc - you will create really nice browse there as well from both the tree sprouting back and all the new growth from sunlight. the new sunlight will open areas up to so many desired plants it's a massive list..... Everything from wild viny peas to poison ivy (yes, I know bad) to honeysuckle (often erradicated and not wanted) to young oaks & other trees they will eat.
Remember, deer are grazers and probably eat somewhere around 40-60 different plants and food sources on your farm (guesstimate but probably somewhat accurate). the more area you allow new growth, the more browse and tonnage of food available. The actual tonnage of food a forest can produce if freed up is staggering & impressive. I have also read on many occasions, no matter the food plots a guy plants, the amount of crops, over 50% of a deer's diet is comprised of "natural or forest browse" & it's good for them. that's why a shaded out forest isn't the best place for deer, by far. A lot of science and thought to it BUT if you're competently marking & freeing your good quality trees, most the time the rest of this will fall into place and you'll have immense benefits you don't realize are occuring. get that saw out after a tree expert tells you what to cut!!!!