Timber Stand Improvment

Discussion in 'Dbltree's corner' started by dbltree, Oct 1, 2008.

  1. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    Here's my TSI forest after 2 years. I took my iphone while I was doing a little checking. Half of it is river bottoms (walnuts, etc) and then half is upland timber. I did everything from crop tree release to weed tree removal, created bedding areas, hinge cutting, etc, etc. I filmed a little walk I did and explained some of it.....
     
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  3. Hardwood11

    Hardwood11 PMA Member

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    Great clip Skip, really makes sense to do TSI for many reasons!
     
  4. Hardwood11

    Hardwood11 PMA Member

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    Do you ever leave some acres more park like, or do you prefer to TSI every acre on your farms?
     
  5. arm

    arm Leg

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    Makes me realize I might not have taken out half as many trees as I should have. Pretty cool
     
  6. DE2IA

    DE2IA Active Member

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    Nice work! It should pay off big time in many ways.
     
  7. letemgrow

    letemgrow PMA Member

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    Great video Skip!!
     
  8. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    I cover every inch. But for deer- it's not needed. I do actually like having little pockets that are "park like" but only for diversity. Even in those spots, I'll hack down the trees competing with my best quality trees. But.... I personally do "something" with every inch of timber. I prefer having diversity every couple hundred yards.... for example- I'll just do crop tree release in some areas, double girdle the competing trees and it doesn't get "insane thick"..... then every 100 yards or 200 yards I'll create a .5 to 1 acre bedding area with hinging or just taking down the crap. It changes all over on my place. I like having pockets all over of bedding & then just general tsi on everything. I'd say mine is thicker than needed but I'm fanatical about wiping out junk - more than is really needed. I also have some tall good trees so it's prime time to free stuff up. I'll admit- I love eradicating large % of "junk" like black locust, thick bitternut hickory, elm (Chinese has got in my area), etc. and yes, I'm hard on ash as I pretty much think it's gonna go by-by with ash borer most likely BUT even if not- I like oak and walnut way better.

    So- above is long Answer to easy ?.... yep- I cover every bit but one ridge might be "park like" for 2 acres, next to it- hinge cut..... 200 yards away u might find pockets I just "totally opened up to sunlight" (if all it was is junk.., and heck, I sometimes direct seed trees or forbs in there if I have time on occasion.). I just like lots of "structure", cover & terrain changes, massive amounts of browse & cover & want oaks, walnuts, cherry, etc to flourish as great crop trees. & long term I want to change the make up of the forest from all the undesireAble trees to more oaks, walnuts, etc. can make huge gains fast if u take time to know all species and take the time to locate the good quality trees and take out the crap.

    Later on, if u guys want me do a vid on "anything" I can. I for sure need to get a tripod or get someone to film. I know my iPhone job is silly. I know trees and love that- I'm the opposite with technology and film stuff though. :).

    Side note...... a good place to "start" learning tsi (tip of the iceberg and do get help!!!!)..... I almost call it "reverse tsi" or maybe weed tree removal... if a guy wants to at least get started, the basics are this to keep you "pretty safe".... learn your protected trees to seek out: walnut, white, red, burr & swamp oaks. Cherry, best hickory poles (thin others), few others that are desireable. Why I call it "reverse" is a guy could go in and target these to kill & be pretty safe: Bitternut hickory, thin shagbarks so only best poles remain, elm, locusts of any kind can go (love to kill off all black locust), ironwood, ash (imo), elder, buckeye & a few others. Kill those off to start (if u wanted to kill, hinge, top off- whatever) and u likely are pretty safe. It's sure not a complete job BUT if a guy wanted to get started without major risk of screwing up timber- pretty safe. That's just my OPINION & you will also find- tsi is pretty "subjective" and opinions run the gammit on how to approach it. Plus everyone's goals are a little different. Just make sure u are not accidentally cutting walnuts, white oaks, etc!!! :).
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
  9. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    Emerald ash borer is in iowa I read today. I think maybe Madison co?? I'm cutting em out or sell big ones before it hits. Pry take some time to migrate. Sucks but better than oaks and walnuts, etc.
     
  10. 150 Class

    150 Class Moderator

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    Yep. There is no stopping it.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 PMA Member

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    All my ash are dead on a Lucas Co farm. 100% kill.

    Pretty sure walnuts are getting attacked by something else out in California. Crappy.
     
  12. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    I didn't realize so many other places had EAB. What I saw must have been a local paper saying "we found it in our county now". Ok, ya, I've been to states with it, wipes them out bad. GONE! Sucks!
    What did you hear on walnuts??? There's one disease that's a LONG ways away right now but could come in, I thought - 10-20 years was possibility. Maybe I'm wrong?? If we got major walnut trouble, omg, I'm in for timber sale strategy. Probably have 2,500 walnuts alone that are 18-26" DBH so if something wiped this out, I'd probably take a chainsaw, cut the biggest one so it just tipped on top of me. ;)
    I'd flip, for real.
    Probably 20% veneer grade (I think it's higher, more like 30%, but finding 20% is pretty rare on veneer & if I lost those, omg). Any more info on walnut disease, post it!
     
  13. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 PMA Member

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    I'll ask my tree company buddy next time I see him for more info. Forgot to mention oak wilt... Pray that doesn't get here. That one spreads from the root system from what I understand. Not trying to be doom and gloom but they are real threats. To what degree, I am not sure.
     
  14. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    I've seen many burr oaks with oak blight. In the cases I saw it - it was not a huge impact or at least didn't appear to be. Is that what u thinking of on oak wilt?
    Post up what u hear on walnuts. Now that would scare the daylights outta me if it's bad.

    http://www.thousandcankers.com/
    ??? Walnut fungus & disease link. If look at map, 2011-ish it was found in several eastern states. Which, by 2017- who knows how far it has spread?? But- I do believe this is the disease many have spoke about. Probably a matter of time.
    http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/black_walnut_trees_threatened_by_thousand_cankers_disease
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  15. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 PMA Member

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    Not sure if it goes by the name of blight, but Oak wilt is what I am hearing about. Tons of articles on it Here are a few....
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_wilt

    http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2015/07/15/oak-wilt-michigan-trees-firewood/30201121/

    http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm/info/plant-diseases/oak-wilt

    From what I understand it is bad in western parts of Michigan. Contractors are going around affected trees and basically running a ditch witch (or something similar) to "cut off" the roots from affecting other trees.

    Red oaks are most vulnerable, but whites can get it too.

    That's probably the Black Walnut disease......
     
  16. Hardwood11

    Hardwood11 PMA Member

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    Some wood guy told me Ash (milled lumber) could be valuable in the future, due to lack of supply? If a guy had room to store some, might be an idea....cut some down before the EAB and have it milled.
     
  17. Ian

    Ian New Member

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    Are you just laying the trees down and leaving all the debris or did you actually remove it out of the Bush.
    My biggest problem is I think I got too much debris hindering the deer movement.
     
  18. Ian

    Ian New Member

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    It is also in Ontario
    I've lost almost all my elm trees
    Only the young ones seem to be okay
     
  19. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    I just girdle like any other timber thinning. Ash are usually crowding a lot of my walnuts and sometimes oaks. Whatever they crowd that’s desirable- they get thinned. No way could I move them or dispose of them and better to lay there than be moved around. Tsi generally has thousands of trees thinned and 25-75 crop trees per acre so that’s a whole lotta cutting and a lot of wood. Priority on oaks, walnut even some maple, shag bark hickory and cherry where appropriate. Ash & elm thankfully are not a big wildlife tree so I’m thankful it’s them going down vs our much need oaks and nut/fruit producers.
     
  20. Ian

    Ian New Member

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    So I've read that deer do not like bitternut hickory fruit
    If I hinge them on there side the buds should be nutritious during the winter months right?
    My property is loaded with them!
     
  21. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    Bitternut hickory is named that for a reason. Most critters don’t eat them. Deer for sure do not. Yep- forage from buds would be just fine though. I level a lot of bitternut for the multiple benefits: sunlight letting growth occur at forest floor, freeing up better trees, freeing up crop trees, encouraging other species to take over, etc.
     
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