Timber Stand Improvment

Discussion in 'Dbltree's corner' started by dbltree, Oct 1, 2008.

  1. JNRBRONC

    JNRBRONC Moderator

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    [​IMG]

    Deer eating a locust pod.


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  3. deep woods goat hunter

    deep woods goat hunter PMA Member

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    Good deal Skip, keep us posted on death rate and what herbicide dope you used.
     
  4. goatman

    goatman I hunt days ending in Y

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    Death for locust comes from Tordon. Even sprayed on the ground will trans locate to the top.
     
  5. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    So chem treatment will work this time of year on locust? I had it in my head I needed to wait to spring.
     
  6. SB3

    SB3 Member

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    Yeah turned on a lathe, a guy I work with in STL makes calls and all kinds of cool stuff. I give him honey locust, ideally 10" diameter and about 20" long. He seals the ends and dries it for months before working with it
     
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  7. cybball

    cybball PMA Member

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    I’ll ask my dad. It’s his if he wants it.


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  8. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    U put some in girdle- deader than dead in my experience.
     
  9. cybball

    cybball PMA Member

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    Going to be doing some TSI very soon. I meet with a forester at my property this week. My question relates to hinge cuts. When doing them, is there some rhyme or reason as to how to drop the trees? Create piles with tops? Willy Nilly? I've seen Skips videos (thanks by the way). Some really thick stuff, but is there strategy as to placement? My forester on the phone said he's not a big fan of TSI, so I may not get a lot of info there. Just curious as my timber is really open and full of junk (hackberry, elm, and tons of hickory that could be thinned). Thanks!
     
  10. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The answer is yes. I would say it is more of an art than a science as far as how you might want them to lay. First thing..... SAFETY first. Some trees are much more dangerous than others such as ash, black oak, etc. Don't try to force a tree to do something is a good practice.
    Those things aside, I try to lay trees on top of others in a criss-cross pattern. This keeps them off the ground with pockets of bedding and avoids creating impenetrable barriers, although that does have its place near stands to create pinch points. If your goal is bedding.... deer WANT to be able to exit and not be trapped. So this idea of freedom of movement becomes important.

    From there, cutting strategic trails "thru the mess" can create deer super highways.... hopefully by your treestand. :)
     
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  11. LoessHillsArcher

    LoessHillsArcher Well-Known Member

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    I'd bet he's not a fan of hinge cutting but is a fan of TSI?

    To answer your first question - yes, I like to be strategic with the hinge cuts. Creating pockets or walls of cover vs just hinging and letting things get stupid thick. I like to allow trails through also that lead to stands or blinds. Our first hinge cut areas go so thick they were almost impassable with downed tops laying 3' off the ground.
     
  12. cybball

    cybball PMA Member

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    Good catch. I’ll blame it on the rotten cold I have right now. . Yes, he said he wasn’t a huge fan of hinge cutting. I’ll find out more Friday when I walk it with him. I want to do some hinge cuts to thicken a couple areas. Plan to girdle a ton more.


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  13. LoessHillsArcher

    LoessHillsArcher Well-Known Member

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    I could see that being something some people aren't a fan of - it doesn't accomplish quite the same thing as most TSI programs wish to. The tree is still alive, grows leaves and shades the forest floor for years to come (sure it does open the mid-story canopy). It still is sucking up nutrients away from near by crop trees. I know I've gone to more clean cutting down of trees vs hinge cutting. I do some hinge cuts but like to completely top trees and make piles / rows with the tops and toss those into the hinge cut areas.
     
  14. cybball

    cybball PMA Member

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    Great points about nutrients and shade. I'm going with a pretty spread out approach, but will certainly listen to what he says. My main concern is deer/turkey cover/food, but a close second is timber value. Clearing out a ton of junk trees should really help. I have what I believe are a lot of red/white oaks, walnuts. No clue on cherry or much of anything else. Need educated for sure, which is why he will be stopping out before getting the saw going.
     
  15. hesseu

    hesseu Member

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    Hinge 1/3, flush cut the other 2/3. You can even treat 1/3 of the flush cuts as well if you want. I see no reason to hinge anything higher than hip high...This will get sunlight to the forest floor, provide side cover, put stump sprouts at a height deer can eat, and is much safer. I'd say hinging 1/3 is also on the higher end...so 1/4 to 1/3 of the tree's you are cutting. Biggest thing I would shoot for, is a minimum of 50% daylight from the treetops all the way up to 90% daylight coming through. This way, the forest floor can grow! Ours are about at the 50% plus at the areas we have done now, and that has been a huge difference maker. Needing to get some work done here in the next few weeks.

    On our hinges, we just cut and let fall / lay where they want as safely as possible. In one of the areas we TSI'ed and hinged, this past season I watched numerous deer walk around tree's, hop over tree's, and just meander in those areas. I do try to make sure there is a way in and out of those areas in a cross shape, but other than that i really don't focus too much on how they lay. Just that tree's are down for the sunshine.
     
  16. cybball

    cybball PMA Member

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    Awesome day walking my timber with the DNR forester today. Learned a ton about my trees and how to release the good stuff. Only had a handful of white oak, which surprised me. Lots of burr oaks, reds and black. Some walnuts scattered around too. Learned what cherry was as well. Showed hiya spot I intend to build a food plot. He liked the idea and thought the area was perfect as most of the trees right there were junk. Now for the work!! Can’t wait.


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  17. deep woods goat hunter

    deep woods goat hunter PMA Member

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    Checked in with my logger today and he is hoping to get moved over to my place middle of next week. I have a lot of mature red oaks and he informed me that his main buyer is now paying 50 cents a board foot right now for RED OAK right now so thats nice to hear. He is only cutting reds and pallet lumber to eliminate weed trees. Then i will come in afterwards and do what Hesseu described above. The area is about 60 acres.



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    Last edited: Jan 25, 2019
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  18. cybball

    cybball PMA Member

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    Is there a good spray paint I can use that I can pick up locally for marking trees? I know there is regular old spray paint, but would be nice having something that is made for tsi that won’t last more than a few years.


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  19. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    I never really have found any. I get my tree marking paint from forestry suppliers. Red for TSI & blue for harvests. The spray paint cans r just fine for smaller jobs. Larger jobs want spray gun & cans for sure.

    Nelson paint is pretty good. Does gum up and not the absolute best in guns for cleaning. I just ordered a water based paint “bark-Mark” from them I’m gonna try out soon.

    https://www.forestry-suppliers.com/Search.php?stext=Tree marking paint

    Gun i like pretty well. https://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/products.php?mi=12001
     
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  20. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    If you use those cheapo inverted spray Cans they fade faster than anything. (if your goal is to have the paint "disappear"). Good option if you cut soon after painting.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
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  21. cybball

    cybball PMA Member

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    Thanks Skip. Those aren’t cheap but sure look efficient for marking a big area.


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