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Timber Stand Improvment

Re: Timber Stand Improvment - identifing trees

DT,

The tree I like to pick some acorns off of for sure is in the Acorns?? thread under whitetail management. If you like it I can try to get you some this fall. It was LOADED last year, but may not be this year with the way white oaks tend to run.
 
Re: Timber Stand Improvment - identifing trees

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you like it I can try to get you some this fall. </div></div>

You bet! I'm really interested in getting more white oaks started where ever I open up canopy for bedding areas or just by doing TSI.

One forester up here has developed a "acorn seeder" for direct seeding which is pretty neat!

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I don't have one of those, so perhaps a "tad" less then he has in that hopper for me! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
 
Re: Timber Stand Improvment - identifing trees

I am sure I can get some swamp white, white oak, chinkapin (dwarf) if that tree is indeed a dwarf and if you want some and possibly some bur's. What all sounds good.
 
Re: Timber Stand Improvment - identifing trees

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">swamp white, white oak, chinkapin (dwarf) if that tree is indeed a dwarf </div></div>

Maybe a dab of each Phil...got plenty of bur oaks but the others would be a welcome addition to my habitat projects /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif
 
Re: Timber Stand Improvment - identifing trees

-dbltree

I'm curious as to what your forester recommended to do with the bitternut? I have seen them called a weed as they do tend to seed in very heavy in the understory.
 
Re: Timber Stand Improvment - identifing trees

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbltree</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">swamp white, white oak, chinkapin (dwarf) if that tree is indeed a dwarf </div></div>

Maybe a dab of each Phil...got plenty of bur oaks but the others would be a welcome addition to my habitat projects /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif </div></div>

I will see what I can come up with, but should be able to get some of each since I have quite a few places to snatch them up. Make sure you PM me when the time is close early sept so I do not forget about it!! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
Re: Timber Stand Improvment - identifing trees

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DWilk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">-dbltree

I'm curious as to what your forester recommended to do with the bitternut? I have seen them called a weed as they do tend to seed in very heavy in the understory. </div></div>


Me too, I believe that is the hickory growing on my bottom land sites taking up quality walnut spaces!! A few will stay though since diversity is key.
 
Re: Timber Stand Improvment - identifing trees

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: letemgrow</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DWilk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">-dbltree

I'm curious as to what your forester recommended to do with the bitternut? I have seen them called a weed as they do tend to seed in very heavy in the understory. </div></div>


Me too, I believe that is the hickory growing on my bottom land sites taking up quality walnut spaces!! A few will stay though since diversity is key. </div></div>

He said that hickories are increasing in value but as a whole they can easily destroy an oak woodlot by taking over.

This is why he encouraged burning to kill young hickories while oaks can survive the flames.

I'm going to pretty much kill both shagbark and bitternut hickories unless they are nearing market stage.

As far as I'm concerned both hickory types are pretty invasive and from a wildlife standpoint they have little value in my habitat program.


Everything I do in my case will be done to encourage both wild and planted oaks, especially white oaks.

He also mentioned that red and black oaks hybridize and that in southern Iowa they almost need a DNA test to tell which is which.

In northern Iowa, red oaks are more prevalant then blacks. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
Re: Timber Stand Improvment - identifing trees

That is some neat info!! I did not know they hybridized regularly like that where it was hard to tell them apart. I girdled some black oaks the other day that were by some norther reds.

I called around to some saw mills about buying hickories and only one returned my phone call and they said they were only taking cottonwoods.

I would like to find a place taking them since I am dropping and leaving right now. You know any places to call??? I am striking out here in Northern MO.
 
Re: Timber Stand Improvment - identifing trees

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">only taking cottonwoods </div></div>

and they are only used for making pallets, so not worth much.

I don't know about where to market hickories, he mentioned that they use them for hickory cabinets and so have increased in value.

Right now of course building and remodeling is almost nil so perhaps the markets are dead for now?

You might give this place a call just to find out if there even is a market...

Geode Forestry Inc.
 
Re: Timber Stand Improvment - identifing trees

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbltree</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">only taking cottonwoods </div></div>



I don't know about where to market hickories, he mentioned that they use them for hickory cabinets and so have increased in value.

</div></div>


If they do go up in value I will be able to retire early /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

The forester I talked to said loggers usually only take them with another sale such as walnuts, oaks etc.

Time to do some bird dogging looks like and see where it stands.
 
Re: Timber Stand Improvment - identifing trees

I have 146 acres in Burlington with a good amount of Cottonwoods. There's an Amish guy (not bonded) that buys Cottonwood for $100 per 1000 Board feet- which is a great price from what I understand. If I am thinking right on this, if you get 2 nice trees that would be about 1,000 board foot OR $50 a tree- for a cottonwood that's pretty good. If you had 6 cottonwoods an acre you'd be doing very well! ($300 per acre, say you had 50 acres of them- $15,000).

Did some TSI this weekend, my body is SHOT!!! Freed up TONS of walnut, Red Oak, Swamp Oak- it was bottom ground of course. I also hinge cut many areas that were super open (maple bottoms). *YES, I should have taken pictures- sorry!
 
Re: Timber Stand Improvment - identifing trees

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did some TSI this weekend, my body is SHOT!!! </div></div>

You young guys are such wimps! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Actually I know how you feel...I felt like I had been beat with a baseball bat... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Here are some examples of some young white oaks that could stand to be thinned a little

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Nice problem...too many white oaks! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

Here's an example of how this situation gets started...

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From stump regrowth

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So if you have some trees logged, remember to go back and thin the regrowth eventually to one strong stem... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

MDC White Oak Key
 
Re: Timber Stand Improvment - identifing trees

great pics!!! That is a nice problem to have....too many white oaks, I would get them thinned too since it will be hard to produce a lot of acorns with so much competition.

Skip,

I won't believe it until I see the pics /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
Re: Timber Stand Improvment - identifing trees

I think those stump sprouts are great!!! If you trim them to the best sprout. I will take some pics of the walnuts that resprouted after they were logged out.

Deer must absolutely love walnut sprouts cause they would not let the sprouts grow over 2 foot tall. Until I put the guards up on them and then they grew 10 feet in one year!!
 
Re: Timber Stand Improvment - identifing trees

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sligh1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Did some TSI this weekend, my body is SHOT!!! </div></div>

I sure do sleep good after a 5 hours of TSI though /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
 
Re: Timber Stand Improvment - identifing trees

Now that I have done Timber Stand Improvment, learned to identify tree species and which ones are shade tolerant versus oaks (which are NOT shade tolerant) I've been much more aware of what's actually growing on my property.

There's a whole lot more young white oaks then I previously had been aware of... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

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They are relatively easy to find by searching out the huge parent trees and then finding the young white oaks around the perimeter areas.

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In some of these areas I chose to hinge cut "cull" trees around the "baby" white oaks to give them light and growing room.

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There is no need to worry about the huge parent oaks, they are mature and nothing is going to phase them now. The little oaks however don't stand a chance under the shade tolerant hickories, elms and locust trees.

So I search out these little white oaks which still have their leaves even here in late March.

SmallWhiteOak.jpg


Even from a distance the WO leaves are darker then the ever common shingle oaks and readily noticable as I walk thru the timber.

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Most crop trees are released by girdling or "hack n squirt" using Tordon but I had several areas that were way to open so hinging junk trees to create a bedding area and releasing the young oaks will work well.

Much of our timber here in Iowa is rapidly changing over from oak to hickory, maple, ironwood, locust and shingle oaks...none of which have the kind of timber or hard mast value that white oaks do.

Burning and TSI culling methods are a couple ways of reversing this trend.

When it comes to holding whitetails on our property...white oaks are far and away superior then any of other species mentioned above.

Take time to learn more about your timber or wooded areas and start encouraging white oaks that may be growing there or by killing trees and replanting oaks either with acorns or seedlings. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif
 
Re: Timber Stand Improvment - identifing trees

Why do you think that is changing?? I can tell on my place the areas that are full of hickory and lucust were oak flats...by the big old logging stumps from 20+ years ago that were never replaced. The hickory and locust took over at least on my farm. It also appears to me that deer play a part. They love white oak acorns but do not eat hickory nuts.

To me, it appears it was man made. The reasons why oaks are getting replaced. I also think that cattle browse young oaks more than they would say a hickory sprout.


Great pics Paul!!!!
 
Re: Timber Stand Improvment - identifing trees

I also noticed on my place that I have a TON of swamp white oak and bur oak sprouts coming up, but not nearly as many regular white oaks. There are plenty of big white oaks to produce some trees so I can only assume the deer eat most of them or something as why I am not seeing young white oak seedlings. That is a trend I am going to switch also /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
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