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Where are all the WORKERS?

cchadww

Member
We trust our staff to do the right thing. Our company offers unlimited DTO (discretionary time off). When we tested this, we saw almost exactly the same number of days taken than when we offered earned vacation/sick. BUT People feel a lot more in control when you don’t mandate, even if they take the same amount of time off.


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Obsessed

Well-Known Member
We trust our staff to do the right thing. Our company offers unlimited DTO (discretionary time off). When we tested this, we saw almost exactly the same number of days taken than when we offered earned vacation/sick. BUT People feel a lot more in control when you don’t mandate, even if they take the same amount of time off.


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This works in theory, right up until one jack wad decides to take advantage of the system. Co-workers see said jack wad taking 200 days off annually with no real reason, while they toil away. Then everybody starts doing it. Much like Socialism. Why work any harder or longer than anybody else if we all earn the same. Sounds great on paper and sometimes starts out good, but quickly goes into the toilet, where it belongs.
 

daniel93077

PMA Member
This works in theory, right up until one jack wad decides to take advantage of the system. Co-workers see said jack wad taking 200 days off annually with no real reason, while they toil away. Then everybody starts doing it. Much like Socialism. Why work any harder or longer than anybody else if we all earn the same. Sounds great on paper and sometimes starts out good, but quickly goes into the toilet, where it belongs.
I have a few friends that have been running their companies like this for a few years and so far it hasn’t been a problem. One had to mandate 3 weeks off minimum for everyone in addition because so many people were not taking enough time off.
 
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cchadww

Member
I have a few friends that have been running there companies like this for a few years and so far it hasn’t been a problem. One had to mandate 3 weeks off minimum for everyone in addition because so many people were not taking enough time off.

That is what we do, we give a minimum (we require everyone to take at least 2 weeks off—believe it or not, some people don’t unless we encourage them) and a recommended maximum.

Time off still has to be approved by supervisor ahead of time. This is in our 5th since switching, and so far, so good. (I’m the owner, so it was def a risk).


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Obsessed

Well-Known Member
This can work for small, especially profit-sharing type companies. I have a friend who works for a large California based company that implemented this and they're about to go away, for this and a multitude of other poor business decisions.
 

Nrharris

Well-Known Member
This can work for small, especially profit-sharing type companies. I have a friend who works for a large California based company that implemented this and they're about to go away, for this and a multitude of other poor business decisions.
Exactly. For that to work, they have to have some skin in the game.
 

Slick

Active Member
My wife works for one of the top 5 accouning firms in the US. They have DOT and I think my wife takes less time off now then she did in the past. I doubt its going anywhere soon. It can and does work in big firms.
 

arm

Leg
It absolutely works in big companies. It adds to the competitive nature of the environment where the real value adding employees don't want to be 'that person' that takes a bunch but is something nice to brag about at the neighborhood pot luck (theyre not taking the full amount of time off with a set amount anyways). It's a nice feature for a company to bring in new talent
 

Mike311

Active Member
All good reply’s. I’ve started my own business and as an owner/operator I can’t find enough hours in the day to complete all the work. To think I was worried about the phone ringing enough. Who knows if that workload plays out long term but I’m sure happy it has so far. That being said I think it’s an easier time to start a business with all the worker shortages. Not all that hard to get ahead of you're willing to work for it.

I do agree with the idea of older folks finally retiring. While we’re all free to work as long as we’d like I do think there was too many hanging on too long, it holds younger folks down. At some point folks have to pass the baton and have some trust in others to allow for the younger generations to grow their fortunes. Why have they hung on so long? Many reasons I suspect.

When I was a kid it seemed like folks of my current age (44) and younger had a lot more toys, more disposable income. I don’t see that as much now days but I could be wrong. They weren’t all business owners by any means, Deere, Rath, etc… I think some things that have come out of the Covid pandemic aren’t necessarily all that bad. It’s shaken some things up that maybe needed a jostle.
 

madplotter

PMA Member
All good reply’s. I’ve started my own business and as an owner/operator I can’t find enough hours in the day to complete all the work. To think I was worried about the phone ringing enough. Who knows if that workload plays out long term but I’m sure happy it has so far. That being said I think it’s an easier time to start a business with all the worker shortages. Not all that hard to get ahead of you're willing to work for it.

I do agree with the idea of older folks finally retiring. While we’re all free to work as long as we’d like I do think there was too many hanging on too long, it holds younger folks down. At some point folks have to pass the baton and have some trust in others to allow for the younger generations to grow their fortunes. Why have they hung on so long? Many reasons I suspect.

When I was a kid it seemed like folks of my current age (44) and younger had a lot more toys, more disposable income. I don’t see that as much now days but I could be wrong. They weren’t all business owners by any means, Deere, Rath, etc… I think some things that have come out of the Covid pandemic aren’t necessarily all that bad. It’s shaken some things up that maybe needed a jostle.
The only thing more gratifying than starting your own business is buying your own dirt IMO. Good luck on your new venture.

As far as the BB'ers retiring, I'm going to miss them. Their good work ethic and attention to detail is sure missed. I was raised by boomers so the traditional stuff does not bother me at all. I know that comes with other issues but I can deal with a lot of personality issues if folks are good honest people making their own way in the world.
 

Sligh1

Administrator
Staff member
I Snapped this pic this afternoon. See this everywhere. This is a lot of $ for no college degree!!!!
67302C73-E043-4CFF-B540-1B592DE626AF.jpeg
 

sep0667

Land of the Whitetail
I Snapped this pic this afternoon. See this everywhere. This is a lot of $ for no college degree!!!!
View attachment 122922
I work in that industry, in the office. That $ is best case scenario and not something to count on weekly. You can also forget anything about deer or any other hobby or activity if you become an otr driver. That truck is not just your job, its your home, its your life. Its 14-16 hours a day everyday except 34 hour reset once a week with little to no hometime. There's a reason nearly every truck going down the road is also advertisment that is no hiring and has been for a long time. Driver turnover for years has been 100% industry wide. Unless you truly love driving and being on the road and want to operate a truck, I would not suggest anyone do that.
 

Sligh1

Administrator
Staff member
I work in that industry, in the office. That $ is best case scenario and not something to count on weekly. You can also forget anything about deer or any other hobby or activity if you become an otr driver. That truck is not just your job, its your home, its your life. Its 14-16 hours a day everyday except 34 hour reset once a week with little to no hometime. There's a reason nearly every truck going down the road is also advertisment that is no hiring and has been for a long time. Driver turnover for years has been 100% industry wide. Unless you truly love driving and being on the road and want to operate a truck, I would not suggest anyone do that.
No doubt. Im sure it sucks. Sounds awful to me. BUT….. better than not having a job &….. we almost need to get to a place where “if u are able to work and dont, u dont eat”.

$100k+ for a job that grinds u down & sucks. I wouldn’t want it. But for no education/degrees - probably be good for some people to do it for a couple years to get ahead. Or work “half that” & $50k still not bad $.
Grueling hard work that’s far from fun is a thing of the past for this country. I know there’s a lot of work that sucks & it’s crap … BUT…. Isn’t it good for many of us to experience that? I’m not focusing on this truck driver job. I had a job at 14 weeding flower fields by hand. At 16 I worked in factory building crates next to a powder coating machine that made it 100 degrees with no AC. It sucked. But had to do it for a period of time. Folks willing to work hard & take crap jobs (even ones that pay $100k!) - can’t find people. spooky how fast the times have changed. Country & generation needs a major wake up call.
 

IowaBowHunter1983

Super Moderator
Staff member
To any young kid that is mechanically inclined I would suggest they go into the trades. For most, you can get so much farther ahead than going to college. I wish I had taken that path personally. They will PAY YOU to TRAIN YOU. Once you master your craft it is not difficult to go out on your own and make some serious coin. Electrician, plumber, pipe fitter, security, welding, HVAC, etc, etc, etc.

Quick anecdote: My bro was a little lost 5-6 years ago. I helped get him into the electrical apprenticeship in Des Moines. By next year he'll be make $40+/hr with about as much overtime as he wants. From there he could chase storms or other options and more than double that number. He was never wired for college and will do very well for himself. If he eventually wants to do his own thing all he really needs is a business plan and a van!
 

sep0667

Land of the Whitetail
To any young kid that is mechanically inclined I would suggest they go into the trades. For most, you can get so much farther ahead than going to college. I wish I had taken that path personally. They will PAY YOU to TRAIN YOU. Once you master your craft it is not difficult to go out on your own and make some serious coin. Electrician, plumber, pipe fitter, security, welding, HVAC, etc, etc, etc.

Quick anecdote: My bro was a little lost 5-6 years ago. I helped get him into the electrical apprenticeship in Des Moines. By next year he'll be make $40+/hr with about as much overtime as he wants. From there he could chase storms or other options and more than double that number. He was never wired for college and will do very well for himself. If he eventually wants to do his own thing all he really needs is a business plan and a van!
Agreed.

I'd recommend a hard look at the trades to any high school kid thinking about what to do when high school is over. I have several friends in the trades and they are making just as much and often times more than those with 4 year bachelors degrees..and they didnt have to go to college for four years and they got paid to train instead of spend thousands to get a degree. I wish I had followed this path myself, but when I was in high school the entire time it was all about preparing us for college, preparing us to get into college for a bachelors degree and what high school classes were needed to be accepted or be getting college credit for.
 

Daver

PMA Member
To any young kid that is mechanically inclined I would suggest they go into the trades. For most, you can get so much farther ahead than going to college. I wish I had taken that path personally. They will PAY YOU to TRAIN YOU. Once you master your craft it is not difficult to go out on your own and make some serious coin. Electrician, plumber, pipe fitter, security, welding, HVAC, etc, etc, etc.

Quick anecdote: My bro was a little lost 5-6 years ago. I helped get him into the electrical apprenticeship in Des Moines. By next year he'll be make $40+/hr with about as much overtime as he wants. From there he could chase storms or other options and more than double that number. He was never wired for college and will do very well for himself. If he eventually wants to do his own thing all he really needs is a business plan and a van!
FWIW, I own and operate such a company and it is true, it is a very viable pathway to a good living. Yet, we struggle to hire good young talent, although I have recently been fortunate to be able to "stock up" on staff and for the first time in several years, would consider myself back to full staff...just as a recession hits. :) But that is part of the fun of owning something like this I guess. :)

For many years...kids had it drummed into their head to "go to college...". So..."they" did. Now we have more people with more college debt than ever before and viable careers are still in a struggle to hire. It's almost like the colleges of America pulled one over on the population and sucked a bunch of money off of people or something. :) (I am not hating on all colleges or those that pursue that path, but we need to move the proverbial pendulum back to a middle ground on that front IMO.)
 

IowaBowHunter1983

Super Moderator
Staff member
FWIW, I own and operate such a company and it is true, it is a very viable pathway to a good living. Yet, we struggle to hire good young talent, although I have recently been fortunate to be able to "stock up" on staff and for the first time in several years, would consider myself back to full staff...just as a recession hits. :) But that is part of the fun of owning something like this I guess. :)

For many years...kids had it drummed into their head to "go to college...". So..."they" did. Now we have more people with more college debt than ever before and viable careers are still in a struggle to hire. It's almost like the colleges of America pulled one over on the population and sucked a bunch of money off of people or something. :) (I am not hating on all colleges or those that pursue that path, but we need to move the proverbial pendulum back to a middle ground on that front IMO.)
I do feel like the pendulum has moved. The messaging is better than when I was in school. I work in the industry as well. We have even recruited a valedictorian as a layout carpenter.
 

hillrunner

PMA Member
To any young kid that is mechanically inclined I would suggest they go into the trades. For most, you can get so much farther ahead than going to college. I wish I had taken that path personally. They will PAY YOU to TRAIN YOU. Once you master your craft it is not difficult to go out on your own and make some serious coin. Electrician, plumber, pipe fitter, security, welding, HVAC, etc, etc, etc.

Quick anecdote: My bro was a little lost 5-6 years ago. I helped get him into the electrical apprenticeship in Des Moines. By next year he'll be make $40+/hr with about as much overtime as he wants. From there he could chase storms or other options and more than double that number. He was never wired for college and will do very well for himself. If he eventually wants to do his own thing all he really needs is a business plan and a van!

Agree completely, the shortage of competent people in the building trades is real. There are big dollars to be made and a very easy path to being your own boss and no college debt. You just need to be willing to get your hands dirty and sweat a little bit.
 

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