Giant Deer of Iowa are rapidly becoming a past memory

[Windlooker]

Didn’t blame anyone. But I’ve always believed party hunting is a joke. A person should be able to fill their tag and their tag only. If you fill your tag you can push but not shoot. A “pile” of tags for a group leads to a free for all hunt with a if its brown it’s down mentality. I don’t do drives, never did. I think they’re unsafe , the party hunt system gets abused, spraying and praying shooting is ridiculous and age management disregarded. You have your opinion I have mine.

 

[tall@wide]

Didn’t blame anyone. But I’ve always believed party hunting is a joke. A person should be able to fill their tag and their tag only. If you fill your tag you can push but not shoot. A “pile” of tags for a group leads to a free for all hunt with a if its brown it’s down mentality. I don’t do drives, never did. I think they’re unsafe , the party hunt system gets abused and age management disregarded. You have your opinion I have mine.

I watched some Iowa deer drive videos on YouTube, and it was a free for all. It seemed like the goal was just to hit a deer and then worry about trying to kill it after that. People taking wild, unethical shots. I know not all hunters do this, but it sure seems a lot do. Agree on party hunting too. Shoot only what you have a tag for; that's just common sense.

 

[iowavf]

Interesting take as this thread seems that most people are stating the deer hunting isn't as good as it used to while comparing it to a time period when deer drives were the primary method of hunting. Maybe the deer farming and blind sitting approach isn't the best thing for a quality deer herd since it seems the quality of hunting has dropped as this method has taken over, lol.

Smart enough to realize many things have changed over the years such as habitat, disease, technology, farming practices, etc. Not many groups left in our area doing drives anymore compared to the old days and trying to blame the few people left that hunt this way is getting old.

Always going to be the ones who complain every year about party hunting, orange army and deer drives. As long as each deer is tagged with a legal tag and taken legally, I'm not going to complain what other hunters decide to shoot. Not everyone is out ot shoot a mature buck, yet some are pretty quick to judge others because they don't agree with how they hunt.

 

[Muskrat24]

As many continue to point fingers at this or that “problem” there is an easy fix, POPULATION! If anyone can’t see the problem with big government our small sample size on this site should be a great eye opener. Regulate thermals, regulate party hunting, regulate cell cams and the deer/trophies will be everywhere again, ha! Sorry to break it to you but all you gonna get is a moral victory here or there if those regs cover the boogie man problems you chase and a bunch of new regs with limited to any increase to deer quality. Riddle me this, I think we all agree that trophy quality was better 20 years ago, did you know there was party hunting 20 years ago. There were also NR antlerless licenses to be used during the gun season. I concede that straight walls and cell cams ARE new since then but our success rates and harvest total have been relatively flat so I don’t personally see the correlation. BUT again I do concede that cell cams CAN increase high grading because a high % of hunters can’t age a deer and if a 150 inch 3yo gets them excited and they tag the deer who am I to judge because I would have rather saw that deer make it two more years. BUT again our success rates have not changed that much in the past 20 years so wouldn’t that hunter have filled their tag anyway likely on a yearling buck…. So we can regulate every boogie man “issue” or increase the population which will not hurt the meat hunter satisfaction, won’t hurt the hunter shooting his biggest buck ever that happens to be a 3 yo 140” and it only helps our cause as trophy hunters.

 

[MarkF]

As many continue to point fingers at this or that “problem” there is an easy fix, POPULATION! If anyone can’t see the problem with big government our small sample size on this site should be a great eye opener. Regulate thermals, regulate party hunting, regulate cell cams and the deer/trophies will be everywhere again, ha! Sorry to break it to you but all you gonna get is a moral victory here or there if those regs cover the boogie man problems you chase and a bunch of new regs with limited to any increase to deer quality. Riddle me this, I think we all agree that trophy quality was better 20 years ago, did you know there was party hunting 20 years ago. There were also NR antlerless licenses to be used during the gun season. I concede that straight walls and cell cams ARE new since then but our success rates and harvest total have been relatively flat so I don’t personally see the correlation. BUT again I do concede that cell cams CAN increase high grading because a high % of hunters can’t age a deer and if a 150 inch 3yo gets them excited and they tag the deer who am I to judge because I would have rather saw that deer make it two more years. BUT again our success rates have not changed that much in the past 20 years so wouldn’t that hunter have filled their tag anyway likely on a yearling buck…. So we can regulate every boogie man “issue” or increase the population which will not hurt the meat hunter satisfaction, won’t hurt the hunter shooting his biggest buck ever that happens to be a 3 yo 140” and it only helps our cause as trophy hunters.

My farm and the surrounding area is loaded with deer, bucks and does but there’s still no giants. This is the second farm I’ve owned that population is not an issue so I’m not sure that bringing up the population is the sole solution. We would need a surplus of great genetic bucks to consistently have giants to chase and with technology and hunting pressure nowadays that seems unlikely unless you have a truly gigantic farm that you can have control over a portion of the deer there. Even the farmers are running cell cameras in my neighborhood.

 

[Windlooker]

Always going to be the ones who complain every year about party hunting, orange army and deer drives. As long as each deer is tagged with a legal tag and taken legally, I'm not going to complain what other hunters decide to shoot. Not everyone is out ot shoot a mature buck, yet some are pretty quick to judge others because they don't agree with how they hunt.

I’d like to know how many deer are tagged with the wife’s, Grammy Betty and auntie junes tag. That’s the abuse factor. It’s not as simple as if the deer has a tag it’s ok. I’ve witnessed guys say I can’t go out the last weekend and give tags to guys who were.

 

[MN Slick]

My farm and the surrounding area is loaded with deer, bucks and does but there’s still no giants. This is the second farm I’ve owned that population is not an issue so I’m not sure that bringing up the population is the sole solution. We would need a surplus of great genetic bucks to consistently have giants to chase and with technology and hunting pressure nowadays that seems unlikely unless you have a truly gigantic farm that you can have control over a portion of the deer there. Even the farmers are running cell cameras in my neighborhood.

Well that is grim! How bad has EHD hit your area? Hunting pressure? It doesn't take much hunting pressure to high grade an area between EHD and killing young studs.

 

[hans1]

The lower population issue is the root cause for most of the issues we have. The problem is our Buck harvest has remained stable with about half the Deer numbers we had 20 years ago. This is simple math that the Buck age structure will be trend downward. If people wont consider reducing technology, shorter seasons or a reduced Buck limits then we must accept much lower quality in the future. This year i have heard more disatifaction from hunters then ever before.

 

[iowavf]

I’d like to know how many deer are tagged with the wife’s, Grammy Betty and auntie junes tag. That’s the abuse factor. It’s not as simple as if the deer has a tag it’s ok. I’ve witnessed guys say I can’t go out the last weekend and give tags to guys who were.

Deer during bow season or ML seasons can also be tagged with a wife's, granny Betty, and aunt June's tag also, can't they? As far as giving tags to others, it does happen during other seasons too, and just because it's shotgun season, doesn't make it any more legal for a person to have possession of another person's tag as it does during other seasons. Got news for you, regs are also broken during other deer seasons other than just shotgun, but some just like to assume shotgun party hunters are all bad.

 

[CottonwoodCanyon]

The lower population issue is the root cause for most of the issues we have. The problem is our Buck harvest has remained stable with about half the Deer numbers we had 20 years ago. This is simple math that the Buck age structure will be trend downward. If people wont consider reducing technology, shorter seasons or a reduced Buck limits then we must accept much lower quality in the future. This year i have heard more disatifaction from hunters then ever before.

Great response and perspective. The other thing to consider is the other stakeholders in the conversation of populations. Hunters, and only some of us, are the only stakeholder concerned with age structure and big bucks. The other main stakeholders the DNR and legislature have to consider (farmers and the insurance lobby) are only concerned with population numbers as a whole.

The days of NEEDING to harvest 150-200k deer like the early-mid 2000s will never come back, and there's a real argument that isn't a bad thing. Deer were treated like vermin and that sentiment persists in areas today.

The days of deer, and big bucks especially, being an easily renewable resource are gone. They aren't coming back. Combine that with the ease of targeting individual, large antlered bucks regardless of age is what the discussion has transformed to. And for good reason IMO.

The bottom line is that 20-25 years ago the DNR used to NEED to make killing deer EASY. That has changed and I am all in favor of making it HARDER.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

Deer during bow season or ML seasons can also be tagged with a wife's, granny Betty, and aunt June's tag also, can't they?

no. Illegal.

 

[iowavf]

no. Illegal.

As it is during shotgun season if wife, granny Betty, and aunt June aren't actually hunting, isn't it? That was the op's reason people were using other tags for party hunting. I'm hunting LM now. What's stopping me from using a tag in my wife's, granny Betty or aunt June's name? Just as illegal as it is during shotgun season. His point was people using tags during party hunting, even if the people aren't hunters, or not hunting with the group. You don't think this doesn't happen during other seasons? I've been hunting LM every since they had doe tags by county for shotgun season. Been checked many times during shotgun season due to the number of DNR out then. Not once have I been checked during LM. Talked to bow hunters who experience the same thing.

 

[Muskrat24]

My farm and the surrounding area is loaded with deer, bucks and does but there’s still no giants. This is the second farm I’ve owned that population is not an issue so I’m not sure that bringing up the population is the sole solution. We would need a surplus of great genetic bucks to consistently have giants to chase and with technology and hunting pressure nowadays that seems unlikely unless you have a truly gigantic farm that you can have control over a portion of the deer there. Even the farmers are running cell cameras in my neighborhood.

I get where you are coming from for sure as Skip has mentioned even his farms struggled this year. I do think this year was made even worse by a pretty poor growing year for antlers. What I am saying though is there are a lot of places that don’t have strong populations and that hurts the fringe hunters. I know of farms that used to have a random mature deer and now there aren’t any deer on those farms. Your farm, with a decent population, will rebound and rather quickly will be my guess. Good growing year next year, you’ll have to reach out and let us know how the quality is. A good growing year won’t matter in a lot of places because there are very few deer. Such a small percentage of bucks make high scoring deer so the lower numbers affects the number of bucks that MAY be big. While quality comes and goes based on the growing year a vast majority of the state has poorer populations than 20 years ago. I’d be interested to know how your farm compares then and now. I have a farm in MO that has probably the best population for several miles but it struggled this year for antler growth. What has caught everyone’s attention is poor growing year and poor population with the result in fewer big deer and now the good farms and the fringe farms are affected so it’s the same tune. Stopped at the local locker over the weekend and several groups came in while I was there and same story over and over. Not finding any deer.

 

[Windlooker]

The point is the abuse is more prevalent during shotgun seasons I guarantee you. Bow hunting is more solitary and individual. Group hunting during the gun seasons involves more people, more deer killed and more tags needed. It’s common sense. Come on.

 

[seven twenty]

Another concept I overheard mentioned was duplicate tags. Clean and butcher deer (A) that night, get a “duplicate” tag in the morning before going back out. Deer (B) can then be harvested. This could be done during any season also. Unless you are taking the rack to a taxi, no tags are required to be attached after they are processed.

 

[Muskrat24]

Another concept I overheard mentioned was duplicate tags. Clean and butcher deer (A) that night, get a “duplicate” tag in the morning before going back out. Deer (B) can then be harvested. This could be done during any season also. Unless you are taking the rack to a taxi, no tags are required to be attached after they are processed.

Way too easy for DNR to track. I’m sure it happens but if someone makes a habit out of it I can guarantee duplicate tags throws a red flag for DNR. And some of these get follow-ups. Just like someone buying a tag and within a few hours checking a deer on that license. I know for a fact these get red flagged and an agent decides whether it warrants a visit. All these things happen but I’d say less common than tag sharing.

 

[DMarley83]

I get where you are coming from for sure as Skip has mentioned even his farms struggled this year. I do think this year was made even worse by a pretty poor growing year for antlers. What I am saying though is there are a lot of places that don’t have strong populations and that hurts the fringe hunters. I know of farms that used to have a random mature deer and now there aren’t any deer on those farms. Your farm, with a decent population, will rebound and rather quickly will be my guess. Good growing year next year, you’ll have to reach out and let us know how the quality is. A good growing year won’t matter in a lot of places because there are very few deer. Such a small percentage of bucks make high scoring deer so the lower numbers affects the number of bucks that MAY be big. While quality comes and goes based on the growing year a vast majority of the state has poorer populations than 20 years ago. I’d be interested to know how your farm compares then and now. I have a farm in MO that has probably the best population for several miles but it struggled this year for antler growth. What has caught everyone’s attention is poor growing year and poor population with the result in fewer big deer and now the good farms and the fringe farms are affected so it’s the same tune. Stopped at the local locker over the weekend and several groups came in while I was there and same story over and over. Not finding any deer.

So here is another angle. I agree the overall #s are way down. A close neighbor of mine is a taxidermist. They typically take in 180 shoulder mounts. This year they are over 150 with late muzzle loader still to come. Seems they will be right on track.

As far a quality definitely lacking in comparison to other years. Just 2 deer breaking the 200 mark, (just barely) and a majority of the deer 150 or less. (A lot of youth deer, and first time deer) a pretty common theme from year to year.

What surprised me is the overall #s are relatively the same. The overall size is less than normal, and the top 1% is overall less.
So my conclusion is the bar has lowered.

One thing I have not asked him is the consistant clients that bring in big mature deer every year how are they stacking up in comparison? ( Im sure he has a dozen clients or so that every year bring in a toad)

And on a side note it's a ton of fun having a taxidermist for a neighbor. About half a dozen times a year I like to stop by and look at the deer coming in. Another way to keep your finger on the pulse of the season.

 

[Matthewfox_45]

So here is another angle. I agree the overall #s are way down. A close neighbor of mine is a taxidermist. They typically take in 180 shoulder mounts. This year they are over 150 with late muzzle loader still to come. Seems they will be right on track.

As far a quality definitely lacking in comparison to other years. Just 2 deer breaking the 200 mark, (just barely) and a majority of the deer 150 or less. (A lot of youth deer, and first time deer) a pretty common theme from year to year.

What surprised me is the overall #s are relatively the same. The overall size is less than normal, and the top 1% is overall less.
So my conclusion is the bar has lowered.

One thing I have not asked him is the consistant clients that bring in big mature deer every year how are they stacking up in comparison? ( Im sure he has a dozen clients or so that every year bring in a toad)

And on a side note it's a ton of fun having a taxidermist for a neighbor. About half a dozen times a year I like to stop by and look at the deer coming in. Another way to keep your finger on the pulse of the season.

How many 200” or bigger deer does he normally get? I’m thinking from a percentage standpoint, how many deer out of 150 are over 200”?

 

[Muddyrem]

So here is another angle. I agree the overall #s are way down. A close neighbor of mine is a taxidermist. They typically take in 180 shoulder mounts. This year they are over 150 with late muzzle loader still to come. Seems they will be right on track.

As far a quality definitely lacking in comparison to other years. Just 2 deer breaking the 200 mark, (just barely) and a majority of the deer 150 or less. (A lot of youth deer, and first time deer) a pretty common theme from year to year.

What surprised me is the overall #s are relatively the same. The overall size is less than normal, and the top 1% is overall less.
So my conclusion is the bar has lowered.

One thing I have not asked him is the consistant clients that bring in big mature deer every year how are they stacking up in comparison? ( Im sure he has a dozen clients or so that every year bring in a toad)

And on a side note it's a ton of fun having a taxidermist for a neighbor. About half a dozen times a year I like to stop by and look at the deer coming in. Another way to keep your finger on the pulse of the season.

Are you referring to Marlin Hoch? If so, he told a good buddy of mine the same story when he dropped off his sons buck couple days ago. as they discussed it, the overall conclusion; grown men can’t eat a tag. If the deer they want to kill aren’t there; a lot of guys refuse to eat a tag and kill a less than buck just to get the grip and grin picture to brag to their social media buddies. This system continues to repeat itself as social media becomes more and more prevalent in grown men’s lives. Mix that with EHD, more and more parcels being divided thus putting more hunters in a sq mile area and here we sit. A giant recipe for a disaster………..

 

[DMarley83]

Not necessarily usually tons more however there is usually quite a few knocking on the door and that is definitely not the case this yea

Are you referring to Marlin Hoch? If so, he told a good buddy of mine the same story when he dropped off his sons buck couple days ago. as they discussed it, the overall conclusion; grown men can’t eat a tag. If the deer they want to kill aren’t there; a lot of guys refuse to eat a tag and kill a less than buck just to get the grip and grin picture to brag to their social media buddies. This system continues to repeat itself as social media becomes more and more prevalent in grown men’s lives. Mix that with EHD, more and more parcels being divided thus putting more hunters in a sq mile area and here we sit. A giant recipe for a disaster………..

No not Marlin Hoch but not surprised to hear. The same story.