DMarley83
DMARLEY83
Almost a hundred percent of bow hunters are gun hunters.
Piting the fight against each other is a fight within oneself
Giant Deer of Iowa are rapidly becoming a past memory
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Piting the fight against each other is a fight within oneself
Windlooker
Well-Known Member
Is the video online? Would love to see it.
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
This is your argument?
What is the ratio of bucks shot during gun & muzzy compared to archery ? If any Iowa county was archery only, could you imagine how good it would be ? Sign me up if any Iowa county goes archery only!
Tall@wide nailed it. We need to make hunting harder. Differing thoughts on what that means but make no mistake about it we need some changes.
Rjack
Well-Known Member
Agree on making it harder. Guy at work using a straight wall rifle during gun was "sniping" them at 200+. Shot so many he wasn't going to shoot another doe unless it beat his current record of 238 yards. That is several deer that don't get killed back in the "870 with slugs" days.
Muddyrem
Well-Known Member
The problem is majority of people can’t self regulate, that’s the problem here. Guys say they can but when reality comes knocking they make all the excuses in the world for why they did what they did and it never results in change. Change is hard, no doubt about it. Iowa herd isn’t a 1/3 of what it once was and yet we’ll still have guys on here tell us that their farm is this and their farm is that; when we all know it’s not. If you’ve grown up in Iowa or been here longer than 10 years, you and I know it’s not even a fart in the wind to what it once was. Sad, really sad…………
sep0667
Land of the Whitetail
I agree. So many guys just HAVE TO SHOOT something!! Gotta pull that trigger!!
I think a lot of hunters are just not aware of how good things were and could be if they could just hold off sometimes. To many just have that tag burning a hole in their pocket. There could be 10 deer in the entire county and if there are 10 tags available they'll be trying to fill them. Two years of just flat out no hunting in the state and this whole issue could nearly be corrected, at least short term, fun thing to think about an imagine.
I agree with the how but based on DNR numbers they are allowing for the antlerless deer to be harvested when the antlerless tags are available correct? So is the method the issue or the availability of the license?
I went and looked and he took all of his videos down of the long range shooting. He had several of them that were pokes. And typically they were larger deer too- not just little guys or does.
Rjack
Well-Known Member
I just don't understand the "method doesn't matter" argument. Of course if tags are available, deer may be killed. But 10,000 tags in a county with the only method of take is a recurve bow will have DRASTICALLY different number of deer harvested than if the method of take is anything including all rifles. Method of take impacts the percentage of tags filled. If method didn't matter, we would not have different seasons for different weapons. Instead of the guy at work filling 8 of his 10 tags, he might have only filled 3 tags. That means more deer still alive next year with no change in the number of tags available.
150 Class
Well-Known Member
Since this is all about increasing mature buck populations, making it harder to harvest them, how about all seasons closed from November 1st - 20th? Long ago we debated here and majority agreed rut is best time for harvesting vulnerable bucks. Yes, ridiculous. This whole thread is wishful opinions that will go nowhere. Normal either sex seasons, leave them alone. Limit doe harvests where needed. Limit additional legal methods of take (no new ones). Education for the value to letting immature deer go another year. Applaud and congratulations to the friends and neighbors who harvest what they are happy with, regardless of deer’s age.
Yes, this is exactly what I am trying to point out…. Are we all out using straight wall guns and cell cams and the DNR doesn’t know it? Well they should. IF the success rate has improved over all seasons with the new methods which aren’t really all that new anymore then the DNR should be adjusting the available tags because the harvest would be above their goals. DNR has the numbers so why not issue the antlerless tags accordingly. (I think they are issuing the tags exactly how they want to). DNR has the rates at which tags are filled including the NEW methods we are all complaining about. They SHOULD know what percentage of tags normally get filled so the guy you are referring to should be “figured” in. Until DNR makes an effort to increase population we are not going to see a noticeable change. I’d like to know where DNR stands with the direction of population. Go to one buck state, are we expecting the antlerless tags to not be filled at the same rate? Limited change to bucks on the landscape which will result in limited noticeable change. There are flat out fewer bucks left after the season because there are less bucks before season with the current population. Let me know what I am missing.
Education and self regulation will not change the path we're on.
Sorta like educating people on the dangers of speeding and not managing it thru laws and regulation.
PS: I love the rut hunting ban idea!
Just curious since you want to change everything but archery, might as well go to recurve only or maybe compound bows with no sights or releases, right? As someone who doesn’t have a dog in the fight, I have been sitting back reading this post from the beginning I notice no one wants to do anything to “your” type of hunting but it’s okay for everyone else to change! Doesnt that seem a little self serving?
JNRBRONC
Well-Known Member
Appears the guy is a great shot, probably practices a ton.
So you use a broad brush to paint smokeless shooters as the root of the decline of trophy deer?
How many people shoot smokeless?
How many people that shoot smokeless take such long shots?
How many bucks do these long-range smokeless shooters kill to deplete the resource?
Compare that to number of bucks killed with AR straight walls during gun season?
Maybe find another axe to grind rather than ML's? They are one and done, not spray and pray.
I agree that things have been technologically tilted in the hunter's favor yet not buying into the smokeless ML argument.
seven twenty
PMA Member
Everybody that keeps mentioning straightwalls as a detriment seems to forget that 20 yrs ago we were shooting Hastings barreled slug guns. A 12ga SST is darn close to a 45/70 ballistically and will group as good or better. Other than the fact that I’ve invested in a few, I’d have no issue going back to a shotgun and still do on occasion. With rifled barrels and sabots, they are a 200yd gun also. Smokeless ML’s, that’s a different story. People are effectively shooting twice as far as they were before.
What’s meant by “eliminate party hunting”? Stopping group hunts or just the sharing of tags aspect? If the “group” hunting aspect is eliminated, you’re opening the issue of access as each person in that group will be looking for their own parcel to hunt and there just isn’t enough ground for that. The state has went from antlered only to excess antlerless tags all while allowing “party hunting”. Is that really the problem? I’d vote for eliminating the rut hunt before I worried about a policy that’s been working since deer hunting was opened in Iowa. Even when most had antlered only tags, the population still thrived and grew. Eliminating antlerless tags where needed and adding self control is the answer for a population increase.
Let’s throw in “no hunting over bait” or food plots as most like to call them. The prevalence of that over the last 15-20yrs has arguably had an effect. Bush hogging/mowing some standing corn is no different than driving through with some corn in a spreader. I know it’s a dead horse but “standard Ag practice” includes harvesting the product.
What’s meant by “eliminate party hunting”? Stopping group hunts or just the sharing of tags aspect? If the “group” hunting aspect is eliminated, you’re opening the issue of access as each person in that group will be looking for their own parcel to hunt and there just isn’t enough ground for that. The state has went from antlered only to excess antlerless tags all while allowing “party hunting”. Is that really the problem? I’d vote for eliminating the rut hunt before I worried about a policy that’s been working since deer hunting was opened in Iowa. Even when most had antlered only tags, the population still thrived and grew. Eliminating antlerless tags where needed and adding self control is the answer for a population increase.
Let’s throw in “no hunting over bait” or food plots as most like to call them. The prevalence of that over the last 15-20yrs has arguably had an effect. Bush hogging/mowing some standing corn is no different than driving through with some corn in a spreader. I know it’s a dead horse but “standard Ag practice” includes harvesting the product.
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hillrunner
PMA Member
Eliminating sharing tags is what they want. Personally, I'd rather see some of the technology rolled back than see opportunity taken away. If you make it harder, we can all keep hunting as much as we want but more deer survive anyway.
Your last paragraph has some merit. Mowing corn is crossing the line into baiting in my opinion. Some guys are using blinds on wheels and moving them around a field as they keep mowing small patches. I don't see how you can call that anything but baiting. They are literally spreading corn on the ground and hunting over it.
Also, when you combine small kill plots with a perfect access to a blind and a cell cam to show you exactly when the big one is "daylighting" , to me a line is getting crossed somewhere in that process. I think the cell cam is the easiest part of that equation to eliminate.
Love my cell cams but I agree they need to go and more up to date deer surveys especially after a reported EHD outbreak in a certain area the year, before setting antlerless tag quotas for that county. Also no extended season if there are leftover tags. This will be 2 years in a row for my county which always sold out so doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out which way the herd is trending. Maybe leave those decisions to the dnr and not the politicians. Also yeah those long range muzzys are a joke but it’s a personal choice I guess. Wasn’t there a video a few years ago where a landowner had a big buck that just wouldn’t come into his food plot and finally, he hired someone to come out with one of those muzzleloaders who literally had it dialed in and on a tripod and the guy just had to pull the trigger I think that was like 500 yards. That’s crazy and a bit unethical imo but….
abell3
Well-Known Member
We need to stop pointing the finger at each other and blaming groups. The gun hunters vs bow hunters. Smokeless ML vs straight wall hunters. Food plot growers vs field edge hunters. It's counterproductive.
We can all agree our quality in Iowa has gone down hill along with access to ground. Those two are parallel. It's never been easier to hunt and kill a nice buck. Never been easier! Go buy an $80 cell cam and throw it up on a tree and go back to their everyday life and boom. Get a picture of a buck that gets their motivation up and they go in and hunt. Now 10 years ago that same hunter never had the same ambition and drive most of us on this site have. 10 years ago that same hunter never got around to bow hunting because he didn't know what was there and it took effort to go hunt the 'unknown'. Hunting has never been easier.
I'm not going to point fingers because that does nothing. What we need to do it make hunting hard again. Specifically, killing a 4 year old or older hard again. A 4 year old buck is the easiest deer to kill in the woods. Their testosterone levels are maxed out while running carelessly through the woods. Not old enough to know better. Throw in cell cams to tell you exactly where they are at. Done deal. Wonder why our quality is going down.
We need to take technology advancement away. Cell cams and drones need to go. We can't take away cell cams 100% on private. however, we can limit the period when they receive the images. Ideally we could ban them but talking to higher ups that seems to be a dead end road. I think we would all agree its not hard to kill a good deer anymore. We need to make it hard again. The tech over the last few years isn't fair to the deer.
We can all agree our quality in Iowa has gone down hill along with access to ground. Those two are parallel. It's never been easier to hunt and kill a nice buck. Never been easier! Go buy an $80 cell cam and throw it up on a tree and go back to their everyday life and boom. Get a picture of a buck that gets their motivation up and they go in and hunt. Now 10 years ago that same hunter never had the same ambition and drive most of us on this site have. 10 years ago that same hunter never got around to bow hunting because he didn't know what was there and it took effort to go hunt the 'unknown'. Hunting has never been easier.
I'm not going to point fingers because that does nothing. What we need to do it make hunting hard again. Specifically, killing a 4 year old or older hard again. A 4 year old buck is the easiest deer to kill in the woods. Their testosterone levels are maxed out while running carelessly through the woods. Not old enough to know better. Throw in cell cams to tell you exactly where they are at. Done deal. Wonder why our quality is going down.
We need to take technology advancement away. Cell cams and drones need to go. We can't take away cell cams 100% on private. however, we can limit the period when they receive the images. Ideally we could ban them but talking to higher ups that seems to be a dead end road. I think we would all agree its not hard to kill a good deer anymore. We need to make it hard again. The tech over the last few years isn't fair to the deer.
Windlooker
Well-Known Member
Mowing corn, leaving standing beans, alfalfa, brassicas etc. What’s the difference. 35 years ago I guess the combines weren’t as efficient as we would hunt the edge of cut corn fields, corn everywhere. I guess if you don’t plant it hunting it is ok??
Food plots, tech, better weapons blah blah. Roll back tech? To where? What’s acceptable? Recurve bows, smooth bore slugs and no cams. Won’t matter.
Today 4x the hunters are in Iowa compared to 25 years ago because of our own resident video stars. Regardless of legal weapons they will come. I’ve said it 20 times over the years. Blame Iowa’s own. This can’t be undone. Own as much property as you can and manage it the best you can. That’s it. It’s not complex.
Food plots, tech, better weapons blah blah. Roll back tech? To where? What’s acceptable? Recurve bows, smooth bore slugs and no cams. Won’t matter.
Today 4x the hunters are in Iowa compared to 25 years ago because of our own resident video stars. Regardless of legal weapons they will come. I’ve said it 20 times over the years. Blame Iowa’s own. This can’t be undone. Own as much property as you can and manage it the best you can. That’s it. It’s not complex.