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Giant Deer of Iowa are rapidly becoming a past memory

There’s no doubt in my mind one buck results in a better age class. Zero doubt in my mind what so ever. I’ve been to too many areas in Midwest on both sides of the borders to compare states. Now- are there other factors like bait, NR draw, timing of gun season? OF COURSE.
Been all over KS…. 1 buck & yes, limit to NR’s, late gun but they do have bait….. every case- go to OK, MO or NE & hunting tanks. It’s 1 buck & late gun season … but the one buck is a huge part of it (probably 50/50 between benefits of 1 buck & late gun).

Kentucky….. 1 buck. Compared to WV, VA, TN…. No contest. It’s all one buck on why KY is so much better than surrounding (and they have bait, unlimited NR tags & horrible gun season timing).

Ohio & Indiana - 1 buck…. Both times when go across into MICHIGAN - insanely better when cross that line. More to it than 1 buck but it absolutely makes a huge impact.

Even PA…. That state trounces Michigan & those states have very similar dynamics…. PA is one buck & they made some other wise reg changes & pa is so much better than MI. One buck is huge part of that.

Clearly there’s way more to things than 1 Regulation on ANY issue. Biggest impacts to states, IMHO are these things: LATE GUN SEASON (probably #1) & the rest not in order: quota on NR tags (& how it limits outfitting), 1 buck, no bait in season & no crossbows during archery. 10000% those issues are the regulations that define whether a state can be great or not.

Next group that’s a different layer & not necessarily regs- far harder to regulate issues that impact deer management/quality…. Good plentful habitat. Forested regions being managed right - diverse forestry practices, management of wolves, etc. Not insane doe quotas which destroy vulnerable regions like Northern MN, MI & WI. Or even N iowa. “Vulnerable areas” I would call: hard winters, open forest with no browse. Wolves. Or - for iowa- tiny wood lots, lots of people with slivers of habitat, etc. All those vulnerable scenarios can be destroyed so easily from so many different angles. Interestingly, N MI, MN & WI put (and many still have!) insane doe quotas in their northern counties. “Kill em all”. Hunters did. Then bad winters or predators hit- can’t recover. N iowa is very much the same way. “Kill em all”…. In many regions they did …. Then habitat got dozed with 2 commodity spikes, CRP got removed. The deer could not catch back up & still haven’t to this day in probably 1/2 our state or more.

Again, I’m not fighting for iowa to be a 1 buck state. & of course I’m with you on getting population up. But being about everywhere in Midwest & crossing these lines so many times, it’s beyond obvious to me, IMHO- 1 buck absolutely helps age class. Maybe not as much as other things. But net positive or net negative, IMHO- everywhere it’s done it’s a NET POSITIVE.
 
Ok so many thinking 1 buck is the answer? How many would sell a pc of there larger farms and buy a pc in another state to be able to hunt more? Why should I as a resident have to leave my state to shoot another buck in another state when we let people from those states come and shoot our states deer??? Makes no sense if we allow non resident into our state???

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Cut it to 2 tags yr in iowa limit doe harvest where needed and no non residents for 2 yrs and see how heard responds!

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1. Reduce the doe quota by half or more in each county, some counties buck only that are real bad.

2. 1 buck statewide (landowners included).

3. Get rid of late shed buck season in southern 2 tiers of counties (this one doesn’t even effect me, I live and hunt in eastern ia, but can’t believe that season still exists - wow

Why can’t we do 1 or all of these, for say 5 years and see what happens and adjust from there as needed. And how do we get this going now rather than later before it’s worse than it already is???
 
Sligh1 said:
There’s no doubt in my mind one buck results in a better age class. Zero doubt in my mind what so ever. I’ve been to too many areas in Midwest on both sides of the borders to compare states. Now- are there other factors like bait, NR draw, timing of gun season? OF COURSE.
Been all over KS…. 1 buck & yes, limit to NR’s, late gun but they do have bait….. every case- go to OK, MO or NE & hunting tanks. It’s 1 buck & late gun season … but the one buck is a huge part of it (probably 50/50 between benefits of 1 buck & late gun).

Kentucky….. 1 buck. Compared to WV, VA, TN…. No contest. It’s all one buck on why KY is so much better than surrounding (and they have bait, unlimited NR tags & horrible gun season timing).

Ohio & Indiana - 1 buck…. Both times when go across into MICHIGAN - insanely better when cross that line. More to it than 1 buck but it absolutely makes a huge impact.

Even PA…. That state trounces Michigan & those states have very similar dynamics…. PA is one buck & they made some other wise reg changes & pa is so much better than MI. One buck is huge part of that.

Clearly there’s way more to things than 1 Regulation on ANY issue. Biggest impacts to states, IMHO are these things: LATE GUN SEASON (probably #1) & the rest not in order: quota on NR tags (& how it limits outfitting), 1 buck, no bait in season & no crossbows during archery. 10000% those issues are the regulations that define whether a state can be great or not.

Next group that’s a different layer & not necessarily regs- far harder to regulate issues that impact deer management/quality…. Good plentful habitat. Forested regions being managed right - diverse forestry practices, management of wolves, etc. Not insane doe quotas which destroy vulnerable regions like Northern MN, MI & WI. Or even N iowa. “Vulnerable areas” I would call: hard winters, open forest with no browse. Wolves. Or - for iowa- tiny wood lots, lots of people with slivers of habitat, etc. All those vulnerable scenarios can be destroyed so easily from so many different angles. Interestingly, N MI, MN & WI put (and many still have!) insane doe quotas in their northern counties. “Kill em all”. Hunters did. Then bad winters or predators hit- can’t recover. N iowa is very much the same way. “Kill em all”…. In many regions they did …. Then habitat got dozed with 2 commodity spikes, CRP got removed. The deer could not catch back up & still haven’t to this day in probably 1/2 our state or more.

Again, I’m not fighting for iowa to be a 1 buck state. & of course I’m with you on getting population up. But being about everywhere in Midwest & crossing these lines so many times, it’s beyond obvious to me, IMHO- 1 buck absolutely helps age class. Maybe not as much as other things. But net positive or net negative, IMHO- everywhere it’s done it’s a NET POSITIVE.
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As I have said. I don’t like comparing Iowa to other States or other States to Iowa. I will just take Kansas and give you four reasons in my opinion why they have more upper age class bucks on their landscape.

Number one reason, they have 650,000 to 700,000 deer. They have around 105,000 hunters and harvest typically 80,000-90,000 deer. So 35% less hunters compared to Iowa, 250,000 more deer, and harvest 10,000-20,000 less deer.

Second reason, a small tract of land in Kansas is 160 acres. Most farms don’t get broken down smaller than 80 acres and that is usually only really close to a major city. Even row crop farms are typically 160 acres or larger. If you don’t believe me. Get on OnX and look across Kansas and see how many tracts of land you can find over 1,000 acres in one block. Then look and see how many you can find that are over 2,000 acres, then 3,000, then 4,000, then 5,000, then 6,000, then 7,000, then 8,000, and keep going. In some areas if a guys only owns 640 acres he’s a small landowner. It is not uncommon for those really large tracts to not even have a road going through them unless it is an oil or gas access road. How many 5,000 acre tracks of land can you find in Iowa with one owner and no roads? That would be zero.

Third, they can bait. How hard would it be to keep all your deer on 1,000 acres let alone 2,000, 3,000, 4,000, 5,000, 6,000+ acres when you can have 1,000-5000lb feeders scattered strategically across it?

Fourth reason, QDM has gained traction over the last 20-25 years so guys who have adopted management practices are passing younger deer in general.

So guys come into Kansas and lease or buy a large tracts of land and supplemental feed all summer. Then pile the corn on them over the hunting season. Guy then rolls in and shoots his highest scoring buck he has on camera on his feeder with bow or rifle and then goes home. Then all the rest of season he keeps corn replenished and all the remaining bucks never leave one guys land. The rest of the season the bucks and does are just left alone to get one year older. Then the guy comes back to shed hunt in February. Then the next year he repeats the same process. It is the ultimate situation, plenty of deer, plenty of land for the deer to spread out, plenty of food, and no pressure. That leads to a relaxed and mature deer herd.

Those four reasons have more influence on mature buck numbers in Kansas in my opinion than the one buck limit factor.
 
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iowaqdm said:
As I have said. I don’t like comparing Iowa to other States or other States to Iowa. I will just take Kansas and give you four reasons in my opinion why they have more upper age class bucks on their landscape.

Number one reason, they have 650,000 to 700,000 deer.

Second reason, a small tract of land in Kansas is 160 acres. Most farms don’t get broken down smaller than 80 acres and that is usually only really close to a major city. Even row crop farms are typically 160 acres or larger. If you don’t believe me. Get on OnX and look across Kansas and see how many tracts of land you can find over 1,000 acres in one block. Then look and see how many you can find that are over 2,000 acres, then 3,000, then 4,000, then 5,000, then 6,000, then 7,000, then 8,000, and keep going. In some areas if a guys only owns 640 acres he’s a small landowner. It is not uncommon for those really large tracts to not even have a road going through them unless it is an oil or gas access road. How many 5,000 acre tracks of land can you find in Iowa with one owner and no roads? That would be zero.

Third, they can bait. How hard would it be to keep all your deer on 1,000 acres let alone 2,000, 3,000, 4,000, 5,000, 6,000+ acres when you can have 1,000-5000lb feeders scattered strategically across it?

Fourth reason, QDM has gained traction over the last 20-25 years so guys who have adopted management practices are passing younger deer in general.

So guys come into Kansas and lease or buy a large tracts of land and supplemental feed all summer. Then pile the corn on them over the hunting season. Guy then rolls in and shoots his highest scoring buck he has on camera on his feeder with bow or rifle and then goes home. Then all the rest of season he keeps corn replenished and all the remaining bucks never leave one guys land. The rest of the season the bucks and does are just left alone to get one year older. Then the guy comes back to shed hunt in February. Then the next year he repeats the same process. It is the ultimate situation, plenty of deer, plenty of land for the deer to spread out, plenty of food, and no pressure. That leads to a relaxed and mature deer herd.

Those four reasons have more influence on mature buck numbers in Kansas in my opinion than the one buck limit factor.
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Have you hunted KS or are these just assumptions based on observations? I you have hunted KS, how often?
 
This is all very entertaining.. I actuallly believe in the merits of being a one buck state. No doubt at all trophy quality would increase. I have absolutely no faith in people/the legislature in keeping the benefits of being a one buck state for the citizens of Iowa tho. Eveybody on here cares about the deer and has the best of intentions. I just don’t think it will last. Way too many people looking for the easy button or to cash in on our genuine interests in making things better. It is never enough for some! Many supporters of one buck will be the the first to support crossbows, rifles, etc.. Many landowners will be quick to push for increased non-res tags to drive up lease prices,land prices etc.. outfitters may too. The propoganda machine is strong. Things we all thought were rediculous 20-30 years ago are now widely accepted by the masses. I don’t see it ending when it comes to hunting.
 
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Anybody besides me remember having to mail in your deer license application and praying that you got an either-sex tag (hoping for venison) as the majority of tags issued were buck only (and odds were you wouldn't fill it)? Iowa was a one deer state once.
 
JNRBRONC said:
Anybody besides me remember having to mail in your deer license application and praying that you got an either-sex tag (hoping for venison) as the majority of tags issued were buck only (and odds were you wouldn't fill it)? Iowa was a one deer state once.
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Unfortunately I remember that. Having that any sex tag in your pocket was a big deal. Shooting the first antlered deer you saw was the norm.
 
JNRBRONC said:
Anybody besides me remember having to mail in your deer license application and praying that you got an either-sex tag (hoping for venison) as the majority of tags issued were buck only (and odds were you wouldn't fill it)? Iowa was a one deer state once.
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Yup. I always checked that box in hopes of getting an either sex tag, not for me or my group to use, but to remove that tag and option from others.
 
JNRBRONC said:
Anybody besides me remember having to mail in your deer license application and praying that you got an either-sex tag (hoping for venison) as the majority of tags issued were buck only (and odds were you wouldn't fill it)? Iowa was a one deer state once.
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Yep...if I remember correctly, only about 1 in 4 people drew the anysex tag. Something like that anyway...

Back then I participated in old fashioned deer drives, egad, even...party hunting. :) If there were 10 of us, it seemed like only two or three of us had anysex tags.
 
I was too young to have participated but have heard about that. Have no problem going back to the days where some tags are buck only. We need to increase the population before we can nitpick the size of the antlered harvest. Starving people rarely complain how their steak is cooked
 
A one buck limit will have the greatest positive impact. Examples are the states who have instituted it. All other factors are less impactful on buck age structure. It is not that they hold zero merit. However, with the one buck limit, the fact that a hunter kills ONE buck and is done for the season saves bucks, period. All the stats and numbers regarding other ideas are conflated to push the multi buck tag narrative. It’s so easy to see through the intent to mislead with statistical BS. Those who dismiss the one buck limit idea completely out of hand aren’t genuinely interested in saving the age structure, they just want to manipulate the regs in their favor.


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thughart said:
A one buck limit will have the greatest positive impact. Examples are the states who have instituted it. All other factors are less impactful on buck age structure. It is not that they hold zero merit. However, with the one buck limit, the fact that a hunter kills ONE buck and is done for the season saves bucks, period. All the stats and numbers regarding other ideas are conflated to push the multi buck tag narrative. It’s so easy to see through the intent to mislead with statistical BS. Those who dismiss the one buck limit idea completely out of hand aren’t genuinely interested in saving the age structure, they just want to manipulate the regs in their favor.


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A one buck limit where people aren't even shooting one buck per year now does nothing.
 
We have to fix the expectations that everyone is entitled to consistently kill mature bucks first.. anyone who has passed the most basic of math classes knows that the number of mature bucks will never equal the demand of the hunters who grew up with massive amounts of phony propoganda. If we dropped a totally natural unhunted population of 400,000ish deer here the number of mature deer would still not meet the demand of hunters wishing to kill them.. It is a math problem. Until ALL residents of this state are happy with increased deer populations hunters will never be happy with the current amount of mature deer. Way too many people have been fed a bucket of bs believeing that they can consistently kill mature deer. The math doesn’t math. You cannot have enough mature deer to meet the demands of hunters while keeping the overall deer population at the limits residents of this state currently deem acceptable.
 
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booneriverbucks said:
We have to cure the expectations that everyone is entitled to consistently kill mature bucks first.. anyone who has passed the most basic of math classes knows that the number of mature bucks will never equal the demand of the hunters who grew up with massive amounts of phony propoganda. If we dropped a totally natural unhunted population of 400,000ish deer here the number of mature deer would still not meet the demand of hunters wishing to kill them.. It is a math problem. Until ALL residents of this state are happy with increased deer populations hunters will never be happy with the current amount of mature deer. Way too many people have been fed a bucket of bs believeing that they can consistently kill mature deer. The math doesn’t math. You cannot have enough mature deer to meet the demands of hunters while keeping the overall deer population at the limits residents of this state currently deem acceptable.
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I agree.


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booneriverbucks said:
It’s refreshing to see someone else had a passing grade in basic elementary math!
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I like your post and then you throw this out there and makes me wish I could remove the like. I agree there will always be more demand for big bucks than there are big bucks and would guess every person on this discussion would agree. This is about making it better not making it perfect (or hitting something completely unattainable).
 
M
Rjack said:
I like your post and then you throw this out there and makes me wish I could remove the like. I agree there will always be more demand for big bucks than there are big bucks and would guess every person on this discussion would agree. This is about making it better not making it perfect (or hitting something completely unattainable).
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What part? Not being a dick either.. Just want to know how to refine my arguement.. I believe it is valid and will defend anyone on this site %100 but we have to realize what we are dealing with! There is a horde or bolshivicks coming up in hunting! We need to draw the line! This crap needs to be cut off and it has to be done quick!! Most of us have a brain and realize we spent a little extra on lies in the past. The younger generation is not so gracious. They will absolutely tear down what we’ve done and ruin it for all of us if we don’t put our foot down. We absolutely have to squash new regs, seasons, weapons, etc.

My complaint is with people that have never killed anything of note and somehow think they are one reg change away from consistent success. That is fantasy land and we all have a duty to call that out. Hunting mature deer has never been easy. We all know it.
 
booneriverbucks said:
M

What part? Not being a dick either.. Just want to know how to refine my arguement.. I believe it is valid and will defend anyone on this site %100 but we have to realize what we are dealing with! There is a horde or bolshivicks coming up in hunting! We need to draw the line! This crap needs to be cut off and it has to be done quick!! Most of us have a brain and realize we spent a little extra on lies in the past. The younger generation is not so gracious. They will absolutely tear down what we’ve done and ruin it for all of us if we don’t put our foot down. We absolutely have to squash new regs, seasons, weapons, etc.

My complaint is with people that have never killed anything of note and somehow think they are one reg change away from consistent success. That is fantasy land and we all have a duty to call that out. Hunting mature deer has never been easy. We all know it.
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Your comment is solid. What I don't think is necessary is to say anyone that would disagree can't do elementary math. Stick to the points and leave the slams out is what I would prefer.
 
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