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Poll Question #2: Thermal Coyote hunting

Would you support banning thermal predator hunting during deer season consistent with NV law?

  • Yes

    Votes: 64 80.0%

  • No

    Votes: 16 20.0%
  • Total voters
    80
Guess turkey hunting is on the chopping block next. Know of countless cases of innocent hunters out in the woods turkey hunting and get shot.

I looked up these thermal shootings and at least one has multiple issues. Driving around and shooting at a coyote that was not positively identified and turned out to be a trapper. BAD deal but the shooter was breaking the law in more than one way.
 
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Iowa said:
Right, but for some random guy out walking his farm checking traps to get shot because someone thought he was a coyote. I think it highlights how some of these cheaper thermals have way too poor of resolution to be lobbing rounds.
I feel like there must be some sort of way to wear something while thermaling that will be the thermal equivalent of hunter orange. No idea what that would be but someone smarter than me can figure that out.
Obviously the 99% are never going to do something this stupid but it’s not going to take very many people getting shot before this gets addressed ( and it shouldn’t ).
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I’ve used a cheap thermal, you can 100% tell the difference between a coyote and a person!!! Even if the person was wearing a coyote costume and acting like a coyote.
 
I’ve heard of many slugs going through the sides of houses during shotgun seasons. Maybe we bam guns for deer hunting.

The issue is not identifying what you are shooting.
 
CurtisWalker said:
I’ve heard of many slugs going through the sides of houses during shotgun seasons. Maybe we bam guns for deer hunting.

The issue is not identifying what you are shooting.
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Oh and to be clear I also have thermal and use it. I’m not saying it necessarily needs to go I’m just asking how can it be made safer? Unless you have a thermal monocular you have to point the gun at anything you want to identify.
Thermaling just presents some different issues because they’re typically mounted on center fires, typically semi auto, and 99% of the time used in the dark, depth perception can really be thrown off, cheaper thermals make it way harder to identify targets.
Thermal safety is probably a conversation for another thread but I think it needs to be talked about.
 
hans1 said:
I would be all for closing the season for the use of thermal scopes 9/1/-12/31. Make it illegal to possess in the field during this period. If this makes some traction I will go to the Capital in support for sure.
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I think doing this would be foolish, many coyote hunters want to pursue the pelts, while not worth much, are most prime and worth the most.
 
I do trap some myself so the prime fur market makes some sense to me, except if that is the motivating factor then it may make sense to close the coyote season other times of the year. Trapping seasons have been managed this way for years.
 
Totally understand both sides here!!! :)
Most other states do not allow thermals during deer season. Just like we don’t allow night vision during deer season. The only reason thermals weren’t added was the technology wasn’t out like NV & spotlights when law was written.
Should we legalize night vision & spot lights for coyote hunting during deer season? Honest & fair question.

If no thermals would go into effect during deer season - you would have: 1) 8 months of thermal, NV & regular hunting. 2) just like 10 years ago and prior…. You can use a regular scoped rifle all year long. & you have trapping season.

I’m all for coyote hunters. I am doing all of it more & more myself…. Spent this weekend seeing if I can justify buying a Nocpix thermal & now I have a flat shooting suppressed rifle. Love it & I totally get the rub on how many are obeying the law. The problem is this…. It’s widely being exploited by the poachers to use this to poach deer state wide. Every CO I’ve talked to has thermal poaching & it’s a growing problem. Here’s the bottom line issue I am honestly trying to think through or solve…. A CO gets call about poaching. Or dudes shooting at night (very common & growing in prevelance) …. They pull them over with thermal rifle right there “I’m Just shooting at raccoons” & co knows darn well they aren’t. CO can’t do a darn thing. Unless they find the actual deer body, match to gun or catch them in the act (almost impossible & why this is a growing issue only getting worse). If they had same scenario with Nightvision or spotlight- immediate ticket. It’s 100% why MO opens thermals up Jan 1 to sept 1. Abuses are growing & it makes catching poachers so much harder.
this is wide scale growing poaching from residents but a very large # of guys from out of state who come here in November to “coyote hunt” in the middle of November. That is a huge issue in S iowa for example & maybe northern counties don’t have the NR’s like we do. Many don’t notice as they are doing this from like 10pm to 3am. Big problem.

I want us ALL to critically thinking through this. Please give me alternative ideas or perspectives. 12 months to kill coyotes…. Regular scopes. Thermal, NV would be 8 months + trapping. That’s a lot of coyote hunting.
Either side you are on…. Need constructive feedback here…… poachers are exploiting this and poaching is growing (I could go on for pages on this) & CO’s are handicapped when they pull a dude over they know or highly suspect is poaching deer & like I said- basically nothing they can do vs if it were nightvision. What else could be done to slow this way down & have some teeth for CO’s to get the dudes they pull over with thermals in vehicles in November?


**stating personal bias & being fully transparent….
My “bias” - it does impact me.
I have had deer poached with thermals on multiple occasions on my land. We chased a guy from Louisiana & Arkansas shooting deer out truck windows with no lights. Got license plates on both & turned all that in. Amount of poached bucks in a variety of areas is astounding. Not all thermal but we found 3 confirmed this year.
I went out with some folks in law enforcement to shoot coyotes late November. It had been a while since I did it & they know their stuff big time. I left that night saying “ok, if it was my job or desire to poach deer suppressed with a thermal…. Start me at dark to day break & I bet u I could shoot 50+ bucks”. It’s so lethal & quiet it’s spooky. So my bias comes in that- yes, this is personally impacting me & I know how prevalent it is. These out of state scum bags are literally driving to “great areas” to target these bucks. Residents as well but the NR’s are making it their “hunting trips”.
Last quick thing…. There’s a gazillion examples of things we rightfully regualate due to propensity for abuse…. Give u an example…. Back in 2000’s NR’s could get a doe tag during archery season…. Clearly we all know what happened but it was hard to enforce unless caught em in the act. “But only law breakers break the law” - true. Again, it was so hard to catch & enforce- they eliminated those as it was so wide spread an issue. Justified? I believe so. Countless more examples just like that.
 
I understand both sides of this one as well.

Coming from someone that enjoys deer hunting and thermal coyote hunting. If thermal hunting was closed during deer season, this would significantly impact the opportunity to thermal hunt. While the statement of having 8 months to thermal hunt would be true, let's be honest, most people are not hunting in the spring/summer months. If this were to happen, I would consider selling my thermal, as I could not justify having a high dollar set up with limited opportunity to go.
 
I talked with a CO recently and I brought up thermals. He said it's a major concern, not just at a trophy level but at a population level too in many areas (think western IA). He said he knows of way too many...individuals...who don't have a pot to piss in but they somehow afford multi-thousand dollar thermal units. For "coyotes"...sure...
 
Maybe we just need to clarify the current rules. Laser sights are not legal for hunting. Wouldn’t that make every thermal with a LRF illegal? Maybe something to look in to.

I agree that there are probably some bad apples in the bunch but a good solution is probably gone. The best solution would have been to ban them from the start. Any proposals will be pitting one group of hunters vs another. Is that really the best scenario? I just don’t think taking away from some others season is the answer. The number of guys using them for coon is enormous also. I know around here that coyote hunting is pretty much a no go during deer seasons already. The legit coyote hunters just don’t go so there isn’t any question. Any night hunting would invite more scrutiny as it should.

Unpopular idea #1: Let’s just shut the months of October & November down for all deer hunting. Multiple issues get resolved. Anybody that is out would have no excuse to be and a pile of mature deer would get saved during the rut. Let the bird hunters have their own month. Move deer season to December only. Gun guys could get 10 days and the archery get 20. No thermals between Sep & Jan 1st. This would mean that only the archery guys are giving anything up tho.

In the end, nobody is hunting between April & September. Making thermals illegal isn’t going to change the fact that people are abusing them. Not all thermals are scopes so believing that it would make enforcement easy is a stretch. Think clip-ons and monoculars. Both can be tossed in the console before anyone gets to the window. Or for the cost of a really good scope, you can get a system that mounts on your roof with a 7” screen for “checking livestock”.
 
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Just my opinion I guess, but because it's nearly impossible to actually bring charges. I'm sure there are some cases but you're right, we don't hear much.

Charges have to be brought after the act has occurred, and to catch someone with enough proof to actually charge takes an act of god. Anyone who can afford a thermal can afford a suppressor to go with. This is all going on under the cover of darkness, nobody needs a spotlight anymore. Then we've got one, maaybe two wardens per county. There's a lot of retards doing it sloppily I'm sure but there's a lot of savvy cats too. Maybe I'm drinking the "green jean koolaid" after talking to a few of them but I don't see how anyone can think it's not a big problem that's flying under the radar. Especially in the "known" big buck neighborhoods.

Every single year I find evidence of deer shot off the road. Jaws shot off, holes in thighs, carcasses without heads within sight of the road. Twice I've found trophy caliber buck's heads hanging high in cedars. I don't think a coyote or bobcat is doing that. Scumbags do that to come back when it's more safe to pull out a big head.
 
CottonwoodCanyon said:
Just my opinion I guess, but because it's nearly impossible to actually bring charges. I'm sure there are some cases but you're right, we don't hear much.

Charges have to be brought after the act has occurred, and to catch someone with enough proof to actually charge takes an act of god. Anyone who can afford a thermal can afford a suppressor to go with. This is all going on under the cover of darkness, nobody needs a spotlight anymore. Then we've got one, maaybe two wardens per county. There's a lot of retards doing it sloppily I'm sure but there's a lot of savvy cats too. Maybe I'm drinking the "green jean koolaid" after talking to a few of them but I don't see how anyone can think it's not a big problem that's flying under the radar. Especially in the "known" big buck neighborhoods.

Every single year I find evidence of deer shot off the road. Jaws shot off, holes in thighs, carcasses without heads within sight of the road. Twice I've found trophy caliber buck's heads hanging high in cedars. I don't think a coyote or bobcat is doing that. Scumbags do that to come back when it's more safe to pull out a big head.
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But you didn’t catch them doing it so how do you know it’s a thermal? Could be ir, could be a spotlight, could be headlights, could be a regular scope with a full moon.
 
It’s obvious!!! Any deer found with a bullet wound was from a person with a thermal scope and a suppressor. Case closed!

I’ve solved the 40 some odd page thread on how to make iowa great again…no thermals would equal literally millions of deer…boom trophy bucks return!!!
 
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