Giant Deer of Iowa are rapidly becoming a past memory

[newfarmer]

Cmon now, you can’t possibly believe this is the case?

The reason deer aren’t scoring their top end potential is because they aren’t getting to the proper age. I don’t even need to know your county to know that the reason deer don’t get to age is because you don’t have the habitat for them to go and hide.

Glaciers brought down our highly productive soils millions of years ago. Glaciers stopped around Des Moines. Look at a soil map and you can see productive soils vs non. You’re a farmer and have an understanding how CSR2 vary once you get south of highway 92 in southern iowa———-coincidently the best deer hunting. The highest quality food sources in Iowa are where the least amount of deer live.

I grew up in north central Iowa. I now live in southern Iowa. The potential for growing absolute giants if given the potential to reach 5-6-7 years old; northern Iowa blows southern Iowa out of the water.

I can show you a lot of 5-6-7 year olds that wont break 155" as well... its naive to think that all deer are just going to hit 180" if given time.... the last 3 deer we sent teeth in on went 7, 8, 7... none of which scored over 140" at any point in their lives.... This area, North Central (and I mean, real NORTH Central), we have PLENTY of cover in this immediate area and still, just do not have the potential. Everyone from up here heads to Southern Iowa to chase giants for that reason. I dont hear anyone coming up here to hunt deer.... Southern MN, the guys I know say there are no deer. One guy hasnt shut up about the "giant" he was hunting and its the biggest hes seen for a couple years... it was a 143" deer (he shot it and thats how we know).. there is a definite pocket up in this area that just does NOT produce big deer often

 

[Muddyrem]

I can show you a lot of 5-6-7 year olds that wont break 155" as well... its naive to think that all deer are just going to hit 180" if given time.... the last 3 deer we sent teeth in on went 7, 8, 7... none of which scored over 140" at any point in their lives.... This area, North Central (and I mean, real NORTH Central), we have PLENTY of cover in this immediate area and still, just do not have the potential. Everyone from up here heads to Southern Iowa to chase giants for that reason. I dont hear anyone coming up here to hunt deer.... Southern MN, the guys I know say there are no deer. One guy hasnt shut up about the "giant" he was hunting and its the biggest hes seen for a couple years... it was a 143" deer (he shot it and thats how we know).. there is a definite pocket up in this area that just does NOT produce big deer often

Nobody said all deer will hit 180, not one person has said this. This right here continues to prove why it’s so hard to get things accomplished as a whole. You’re trying to compare your area to the portions of the state that actually have deer. Do fish biologists from Florida tell biologists from Minnesota how to manage their walleye population? I have more deer in my back yard than you have in square miles up there. I grew up in Webster city. Hunted there well into my 20s until I moved to South central Iowa. I’ve been on both sides of the fence, you’re not going to convince me that your area can’t grow big deer too; it just comes down to people not being able to hold off on 3-4 year olds.

For the record I have buddies who have killed 170+ deer around Forest City, Algona and Clear Lake/ Mason City.

 

[newfarmer]

Nobody said all deer will hit 180, not one person has said this. This right here continues to prove why it’s so hard to get things accomplished as a whole. You’re trying to compare your area to the portions of the state that actually have deer. Do fish biologists from Florida tell biologists from Minnesota how to manage their walleye population? I have more deer in my back yard than you have in square miles up there. I grew up in Webster city. Hunted there well into my 20s until I moved to South central Iowa. I’ve been on both sides of the fence, you’re not going to convince me that your area can’t grow big deer too; it just comes down to people not being able to hold off on 3-4 year olds.

For the record I have buddies who have killed 170+ deer around Forest City, Algona and Clear Lake/ Mason City.

Literally, 180 HAS been mentioned in this post, thats what I originally even replied to.... and yes, that area of Forest City, Algona, and Clear Lake do produce deer, and good ones... again, not my area necessarily. So whats the end game? Everyone wants mature deer? The post was literally labeled GIANT deer... so now we are back pedaling to what? Please explain to me the end point of this whole 38 page pissing match that at the end of the day, says we need more deer.

 

[Muddyrem]

Literally, 180 HAS been mentioned in this post, thats what I originally even replied to.... and yes, that area of Forest City, Algona, and Clear Lake do produce deer, and good ones... again, not my area necessarily. So whats the end game? Everyone wants mature deer? The post was literally labeled GIANT deer... so now we are back pedaling to what? Please explain to me the end point of this whole 38 page pissing match that at the end of the day, says we need more deer.

I’m not back peddling on anything I said. The goal of this post I’m assuming was to inform people the glory days are gone. And if we want on even come class to keeping what we once had, we need to be aware of why things are changing. Believe it or not, we are to blame just as much as EHD.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

This is exactly my point of why guys need to lower their expectations on what they will see on the landscape. To believe 5/10 bucks have the potential to reach 180” even if allowed to live to 6-8 (which that age is fantasy land for good genetic bucks unless you control thousands of contiguous acres) is way too high. Are there areas with really good or trashy genetics that 5/10 may be able to reach 180”…yes, but as a whole across our State, absolutely no way. I still think 1/10 bucks have the potential to reach 180” by age 5 or 6. That is an achievable age with good management and some luck. You don’t have to own lots of acres to get a buck to that age if you have enough food, the right cover, water, does, control bullies and low pressure hunt it. Having neighbors on the same page obviously helps. However, you won’t see bucks like that every year so don’t expect to.

Think about what percentage of bucks on Iowa’s landscape are clean 8 points. A couple years ago I was looking to see how many 8 points were in B&C record books and at that time. There were less than 40 or something like that. That is forty 8 points that made it past 170” not 180”. Now that is net score obviously so they likely grossed higher, but none the less to break 170” as an 8 point is an absolute Toad. To break 180” is Crazy Stupid Big. Last I checked, the Boone and Crockett world record 8 point was 184 5/8”. Eight pointers that are that caliber don’t even look real. Look up Jason Sanders Illinois buck to get an idea. It grossed 192 3/8. But had 30/32” main beams (places top 5 all time in beam length), 22 3/8” inside spread, 16/14” G2’s and 12” G3, ultimately netted 184 7/8”. One (kicker point) that measured 1 6/8 lowered the final score to 183 1/8”.

Now take 10 pointers, they have to have good mass, good beam length, good brow times good G2’s, good G3’s and great g4’s to even stand a chance of breaking 180”. Not every 10 point has those genetics. Seems like most will be lacking at least one of those and thus won’t ever break 180”. Whether that is short brows, short G2, or short G 4’s. So if you don’t have really trashy genetics where bucks throw a lot of extra points or are a main frame 12 point with some decent tine length you won’t see very many break 180” even if they live to age 6+. There is no way 5/10 bucks have the genetics to achieve 180” across Iowa as a whole.

Posting unrealistic expectations like that on a forum where young guys come to learn about herd management, land management, and hunting in general is disappointing. Because guys believing that will have a very disappointing Fall and likely hunting journey in general waiting for a 180”.

I would encourage guys to try to let bucks with 10 points or more get to 5 years old and those with the best genetic traits to 6 if you’re wanting to put top end bucks on the wall. Cull bully bucks with less than 10 points by age 4, (now if you have a monster 8 that looks like he could blow up go ahead and pass him) especially those bucks that don’t look to have the genetics to reach 180”. Have realistic goals based on the acres you manage and enjoy the management process because shooting big culls is fun and rewarding. If your enjoyment is solely based on shooting bucks over 180” you’re likely going to be very disappointed. In most areas with our current population levels you might get the chance to legitimately hunt for a 180”+ buck one or two years every decade (unless you control thousands of acres).

Now if we are able to increase our doe population by 250,000 then the sky would be the limit. You might have a 180”+ every third year (possibly every other year) depending on the genetics in your neighborhood. Regardless, the number of 160”+ bucks on the landscape would really make days in the stand enjoyable. But until we get the population up there have realistic goals and keep culling.

I disagree and you're moving the goal post.

I didnt say 50% would be 180 at 5. Or even 6.

What I said was 50% would hit 180 if they were allowed to live as old as they wanted.

Broadly speaking, deer are not maxed out at 5. (7 seems to be the magic number)

Am I suggesting people hold off for 7 year olds? Absolutely not. That insanity.

Of all the deer ive had enough history with to say with a high degree of confidence that they were at least 7, the number is at least 50%. Southern Iowa across 5 counties.

Ive had a couple farms i think that number is at least 75%, but fully acknowledge those are outliers.

To say only 10% of deer would hit 180 at some point in their life if they died of old age is not the reality i have seen. Not even close.

How many deer get to reach their full potential? Nearly zero. 99.99% get shot or die of somthing else before then.

 

[hillrunner]

If Idaho can do it, so can Iowa.

Restrictions On High Tech For Hunting Sent To Idaho Legislature For Consideration -

Following a long public process with a cross section of hunters, the Idaho state legislature is set to consider banning night vision, thermal imaging optics, "transmitting" trail cameras and other gear for scouting or hunting. Traditional game cams would still be allowed.

nwsportsmanmag.com

 

[Hawk32]

If Idaho can do it, so can Iowa.

Restrictions On High Tech For Hunting Sent To Idaho Legislature For Consideration -

Following a long public process with a cross section of hunters, the Idaho state legislature is set to consider banning night vision, thermal imaging optics, "transmitting" trail cameras and other gear for scouting or hunting. Traditional game cams would still be allowed.

nwsportsmanmag.com

That's awesome. I'd like to have been a fly on the wall during those group meetings. I'd love to do something like that here and get something done. Hopefully it works out for them and they pass it.

 

[booneriverbucks]

Disagree. unless our definitions of mature deer are different from each other. It's never been easier to kill a mature buck with today's technology. What do you consider mature?

I’ll apologize in advance if I do not understand your response and know it is my fault and not your wording.. I’m trying to go back and look at the entirety of stuff I’ve written and whats been said.. not necessarily on this individual post.. it’s way easier to kill stuff now. By far! Not close! On my land, me or other close relations have definitely killed the best deer we’ve known of in the last few years.. and unfortunately we’ve known about them all because of tech and not eyes on them or personal scouting., Sorry if this doesn’t answer your question. I honestly just kinda got lost in all the conversations but would like to clarify

 

[booneriverbucks]

Disagree. unless our definitions of mature deer are different from each other. It's never been easier to kill a mature buck with today's technology. What do you consider mature?

I can clarify my thoughts on mature deer…. We all agree it’s not 2.. some will say that bone wise/ structrually it may be 3.. I’d say muscle/physically I don’t consider 3 mature and most dont. Let’s say 4,5, 6+! I personally do not intentionally target 4 year old deer but will freely admit in the grand scheme of things he’s “close” and the risk/reward factor gets to be a hard gamble after that.. 4+ is mature for the vast majority of hunters nationwide.. We have it good if we don’t think that. very few are lucky enough to consisty target 5/6+ yr olds.. even if we convince people that’s possible it will never be reality…. Grand scheme.. we will ruin hunting if we convince everyone they have a realistic chance at routinely harvesting 5+ year old deer. The acceptable deer population numbers will never allow that.

 

[booneriverbucks]

For the record I have buddies who have killed 170+ deer around Forest City, Algona and Clear Lake/ Mason City.

Way to forget about your buddies a county to the south

 

[Muddyrem]

Way to forget about your buddies a county to the south

There’s no big deer around there either haha

I just assumed farmer was from up that way since he said he was from way far north central Iowa. Point being though, every county in Iowa has the potential as we know under the right circumstances to grow giants.

 

[booneriverbucks]

Haha!.. maybe your bro and buddies just can’t get them! Totally agree!! The potential is in all those places!

 

[Dennis]

So on your farm what is the percentage of bucks that have what it takes genetically to be 180” plus by maturity? What age do they have to get to to make 180”?

I'm not the person you asked. I only own a small 40 acre piece. I have permission on 80 areas that is 50/50 switchgrass and timber about 1/2 mile from me and 400 acres that is cattle pasture with maybe 50-60 acres of great cover. The 80 is part of a much larger chunk of habitat. I have only lived and hunted here for 5 years. There is a ton of high grading here. In the 5 years, I have watched 2 bucks that were basically identical, but 2 years apart. One was living mostly on me and the other was living mostly in the 80. The first at 4.5 years old was about a 145" 9 point. At 5.5 he was a mid 160s 10 point, and at 6.5 he was a low 180s 10 point. I have not seen him since, and I would guess someone killed him during the rut last year. The second buck followed about exactly in that pattern. He was easy to recognize as half his tail was missing. At 3.5 years he was a 120" 8 pointer. At 4.5 he was a low 140s 9 point. At 5.5 he was a mid 160s 10 point with 9" brow tines. There was also a mid 170s 11 point that was only 4.5 in that same timber.

The property to the north of the 80 was sold in less than a day after being listed. The guys that have hunted that property for years hunted the fence right before closing and killed both of those deer.

In the 4 years we have hunted that property, we have passed a handful of 140-150" 3 year olds and a 160" 13 point 3 year old. In every case, those deer did not make it to the next season. The buck with the tall brows got broken off early last season.

Most of the old deer have been low scoring deer. Last year I shot a 6.5 year old deer that was a 130" 8 point and had been a 115" 7 point at 3, 4, and 5. This year I shot a 140" 10 point I had no history with except for trail cams pictures this year from the 400 acre cattle pasture. I had never had cameras there until this year. He was at least 5.5 years old, but I found his right shed from last year after I killed him, and it is nearly identical to this year, so maybe he was older. He was a 130" frame with 10" of extra mass. My guess is he got passed and passed because there wasn't really much noteworthy about him except his right beam has a twist on the end.

It seems like everything around here gets shot the instant it hits 140". The stuff that gets to maturity is the stuff that gets passed up due to small or broken antlers. The ONLY exception I have seen in 5 years of hunting here is the buck that made 6.5 and low 180s that was living mostly on my ground. Everything else with the potential to get big gets killed before 5.5 years old. Based on what I see for 2 and 3 and 4 year olds, I would say there is a lot of genetic potential there if we could just get some deer to maturity. I don't know who hunts every piece, but there were at least 10 bowhunters around me hunting the same 6 mature deer. Only 2 of those deer would even score over 150". Then, of course, guys were after the 170" 4 year old.

The other thing that hurts, but doesn't bother me. Kids hunting are killing some stud bucks before maturity. My 10 year old has killed a 150" deer with a gun. It was and is her biggest deer, but I'm pretty sure it was 4.5 when she killed it. This year her first bow kill was a 128" 2 year old that already had several abnormal points. She was trying to get it done on ANY deer with a bow. It just happened to be that one that came by at 6 yards and presented a shot. I would imagine that deer would have been a giant, but I wouldn't trade that hunt to kill a 200" deer, ever.

I think the genetics in a lot of areas are still pretty good. Very few people have the trigger control to get deer to maturity. The population is too low for them to get there accidentally when we stack the deck against the deer with food plots, box blinds, and cell cams. Also, a lot of people call 3 and 4 year old bucks mature. MANY people, including me, are ready to kill bucks at 5.5 years old. Their bodies are mature and they have had some time to pass on genetics. If we are truly looking for GIANT deer in the current environment, with all the tech and the low populations, we need an entire neighborhood committed to getting bucks to 6.5 to 8.5 years of age. Especially the bucks with the most genetic potential. We just don’t have the numbers of bucks right now to get them there by luck.

 

[Muddyrem]

I'm not the person you asked. I only own a small 40 acre piece. I have permission on 80 areas that is 50/50 switchgrass and timber about 1/2 mile from me and 400 acres that is cattle pasture with maybe 50-60 acres of great cover. The 80 is part of a much larger chunk of habitat. I have only lived and hunted here for 5 years. There is a ton of high grading here. In the 5 years, I have watched 2 bucks that were basically identical, but 2 years apart. One was living mostly on me and the other was living mostly in the 80. The first at 4.5 years old was about a 145" 9 point. At 5.5 he was a mid 160s 10 point, and at 6.5 he was a low 180s 10 point. I have not seen him since, and I would guess someone killed him during the rut last year. The second buck followed about exactly in that pattern. He was easy to recognize as half his tail was missing. At 3.5 years he was a 120" 8 pointer. At 4.5 he was a low 140s 9 point. At 5.5 he was a mid 160s 10 point with 9" brow tines. There was also a mid 170s 11 point that was only 4.5 in that same timber.

The property to the north of the 80 was sold in less than a day after being listed. The guys that have hunted that property for years hunted the fence right before closing and killed both of those deer.

In the 4 years we have hunted that property, we have passed a handful of 140-150" 3 year olds and a 160" 13 point 3 year old. In every case, those deer did not make it to the next season. The buck with the tall brows got broken off early last season.

Most of the old deer have been low scoring deer. Last year I shot a 6.5 year old deer that was a 130" 8 point and had been a 115" 7 point at 3, 4, and 5. This year I shot a 140" 10 point I had no history with except for trail cams pictures this year from the 400 acre cattle pasture. I had never had cameras there until this year. He was at least 5.5 years old, but I found his right shed from last year after I killed him, and it is nearly identical to this year, so maybe he was older. He was a 130" frame with 10" of extra mass. My guess is he got passed and passed because there wasn't really much noteworthy about him except his right beam has a twist on the end.

It seems like everything around here gets shot the instant it hits 140". The stuff that gets to maturity is the stuff that gets passed up due to small or broken antlers. The ONLY exception I have seen in 5 years of hunting here is the buck that made 6.5 and low 180s that was living mostly on my ground. Everything else with the potential to get big gets killed before 5.5 years old. Based on what I see for 2 and 3 and 4 year olds, I would say there is a lot of genetic potential there if we could just get some deer to maturity. I don't know who hunts every piece, but there were at least 10 bowhunters around me hunting the same 6 mature deer. Only 2 of those deer would even score over 150". Then, of course, guys were after the 170" 4 year old.

The other thing that hurts, but doesn't bother me. Kids hunting are killing some stud bucks before maturity. My 10 year old has killed a 150" deer with a gun. It was and is her biggest deer, but I'm pretty sure it was 4.5 when she killed it. This year her first bow kill was a 128" 2 year old that already had several abnormal points. She was trying to get it done on ANY deer with a bow. It just happened to be that one that came by at 6 yards and presented a shot. I would imagine that deer would have been a giant, but I wouldn't trade that hunt to kill a 200" deer, ever.

I think the genetics in a lot of areas are still pretty good. Very few people have the trigger control to get deer to maturity. The population is too low for them to get there accidentally when we stack the deck against the deer with food plots, box blinds, and cell cams. Also, a lot of people call 3 and 4 year old bucks mature. MANY people, including me, are ready to kill bucks at 5.5 years old. Their bodies are mature and they have had some time to pass on genetics. If we are truly looking for GIANT deer in the current environment, with all the tech and the low populations, we need an entire neighborhood committed to getting bucks to 6.5 to 8.5 years of age. Especially the bucks with the most genetic potential. We just don’t have the numbers of bucks right now to get them there by luck.

Great response………….

This right here explains it to a T what is happening in 90% of Iowa as far as lack of absolute giant deer.

 

[Muskrat24]

I'm not the person you asked. I only own a small 40 acre piece. I have permission on 80 areas that is 50/50 switchgrass and timber about 1/2 mile from me and 400 acres that is cattle pasture with maybe 50-60 acres of great cover. The 80 is part of a much larger chunk of habitat. I have only lived and hunted here for 5 years. There is a ton of high grading here. In the 5 years, I have watched 2 bucks that were basically identical, but 2 years apart. One was living mostly on me and the other was living mostly in the 80. The first at 4.5 years old was about a 145" 9 point. At 5.5 he was a mid 160s 10 point, and at 6.5 he was a low 180s 10 point. I have not seen him since, and I would guess someone killed him during the rut last year. The second buck followed about exactly in that pattern. He was easy to recognize as half his tail was missing. At 3.5 years he was a 120" 8 pointer. At 4.5 he was a low 140s 9 point. At 5.5 he was a mid 160s 10 point with 9" brow tines. There was also a mid 170s 11 point that was only 4.5 in that same timber.

The property to the north of the 80 was sold in less than a day after being listed. The guys that have hunted that property for years hunted the fence right before closing and killed both of those deer.

In the 4 years we have hunted that property, we have passed a handful of 140-150" 3 year olds and a 160" 13 point 3 year old. In every case, those deer did not make it to the next season. The buck with the tall brows got broken off early last season.

Most of the old deer have been low scoring deer. Last year I shot a 6.5 year old deer that was a 130" 8 point and had been a 115" 7 point at 3, 4, and 5. This year I shot a 140" 10 point I had no history with except for trail cams pictures this year from the 400 acre cattle pasture. I had never had cameras there until this year. He was at least 5.5 years old, but I found his right shed from last year after I killed him, and it is nearly identical to this year, so maybe he was older. He was a 130" frame with 10" of extra mass. My guess is he got passed and passed because there wasn't really much noteworthy about him except his right beam has a twist on the end.

It seems like everything around here gets shot the instant it hits 140". The stuff that gets to maturity is the stuff that gets passed up due to small or broken antlers. The ONLY exception I have seen in 5 years of hunting here is the buck that made 6.5 and low 180s that was living mostly on my ground. Everything else with the potential to get big gets killed before 5.5 years old. Based on what I see for 2 and 3 and 4 year olds, I would say there is a lot of genetic potential there if we could just get some deer to maturity. I don't know who hunts every piece, but there were at least 10 bowhunters around me hunting the same 6 mature deer. Only 2 of those deer would even score over 150". Then, of course, guys were after the 170" 4 year old.

The other thing that hurts, but doesn't bother me. Kids hunting are killing some stud bucks before maturity. My 10 year old has killed a 150" deer with a gun. It was and is her biggest deer, but I'm pretty sure it was 4.5 when she killed it. This year her first bow kill was a 128" 2 year old that already had several abnormal points. She was trying to get it done on ANY deer with a bow. It just happened to be that one that came by at 6 yards and presented a shot. I would imagine that deer would have been a giant, but I wouldn't trade that hunt to kill a 200" deer, ever.

I think the genetics in a lot of areas are still pretty good. Very few people have the trigger control to get deer to maturity. The population is too low for them to get there accidentally when we stack the deck against the deer with food plots, box blinds, and cell cams. Also, a lot of people call 3 and 4 year old bucks mature. MANY people, including me, are ready to kill bucks at 5.5 years old. Their bodies are mature and they have had some time to pass on genetics. If we are truly looking for GIANT deer in the current environment, with all the tech and the low populations, we need an entire neighborhood committed to getting bucks to 6.5 to 8.5 years of age. Especially the bucks with the most genetic potential. We just don’t have the numbers of bucks right now to get them there by luck.

As Muddyrem states this is pretty typical to Iowa and typical to where I hunt. What I was pointing out is what you stated. The mature 6.5 yo deer are there but poor racks and people thro 3 yo ages because of low scoring antlers. In your scenario the bucks that can make 180” aren’t 50%. It would be hard to say that no poor genetic 3-4 yo old deer are getting shot. Likely most people don’t hear or care about those we just pay attention to the big or up and comers. Iowa has good genetics but 5/10 is pretty strong in a wild herd. The thing that has changed is our population and there simply aren’t enough bucks to start with for enough to outlast the hunters to slip through to old age.

 

[Daver]

...

It seems like everything around here gets shot the instant it hits 140". The stuff that gets to maturity is the stuff that gets passed up due to small or broken antlers. The ONLY exception I have seen in 5 years of hunting here is the buck that made 6.5 and low 180s that was living mostly on my ground. Everything else with the potential to get big gets killed before 5.5 years old. Based on what I see for 2 and 3 and 4 year olds, I would say there is a lot of genetic potential there if we could just get some deer to maturity. I don't know who hunts every piece, but there were at least 10 bowhunters around me hunting the same 6 mature deer. Only 2 of those deer would even score over 150". Then, of course, guys were after the 170" 4 year old.

...

Again I say...somebody tell me how a one buck limit is going to help us that much...there are more "trophy" hunters now than there are actual trophies. Our main problem(s) are not guys shooting multiple bucks, so solving that problem doesn't address the main problems/challenges that we have.

 

[Thinkin Rut]

but there were at least 10 bowhunters around me hunting the same 6 mature deer.

Again I say...somebody tell me how a one buck limit is going to help us that much

These 10 bowhunters have the ability to take 20-30 bucks throughout the seasons if they wish to. If they are land owners, they have a minimum of 10 bucks they can kill with a bow while waiting for one of the 6 mature bucks to walk by. If 4 of the 10 bowhunters kill the 6 mature bucks, that leaves a minimum of 6 bucks on the bubble that are at risk of being killed or 12 if they are land owners...then there are the gun seasons. In this scenario, 1 buck could save 10 to 20 bucks. Holy shit...help me with the math I'm afraid that a buck of a lifetime is alive and well in the state of Iowa.

 

[thughart]

These 10 bowhunters have the ability to take 20-30 bucks throughout the seasons if they wish to. If they are land owners, they have a minimum of 10 bucks they can kill with a bow while waiting for one of the 6 mature bucks to walk by. If 4 of the 10 bowhunters kill the 6 mature bucks, that leaves a minimum of 6 bucks on the bubble that are at risk of being killed or 12 if they are land owners...then there are the gun seasons. In this scenario, 1 buck could save 10 to 20 bucks. Holy shit...help me with the math I'm afraid that a buck of a lifetime is alive and well in the state of Iowa.

Well articulated point.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[HWC]

These 10 bowhunters have the ability to take 20-30 bucks throughout the seasons if they wish to. If they are land owners, they have a minimum of 10 bucks they can kill with a bow while waiting for one of the 6 mature bucks to walk by. If 4 of the 10 bowhunters kill the 6 mature bucks, that leaves a minimum of 6 bucks on the bubble that are at risk of being killed or 12 if they are land owners...then there are the gun seasons. In this scenario, 1 buck could save 10 to 20 bucks. Holy shit...help me with the math I'm afraid that a buck of a lifetime is alive and well in the state of Iowa.

We have an active thread where one landowner got two beautiful bucks off his "small" acreage. Do the math and tell me again how 1 buck limit can't make a difference. I'm not calling that landowner out or judging him.They are beautiful bucks. Just illustrating how saying a 1 buck limit wouldn't help seems off to me. Regarding small acreage, I don't know if small to him is 30 acres or 300 acres. But anything under a certain acre size isn't feasible to take two Booners a year off it and not see a decrease in buck quality in the near future. The acreage size will vary some based on habitat.

 

[Dennis]

This is exactly my point of why guys need to lower their expectations on what they will see on the landscape. To believe 5/10 bucks have the potential to reach 180” even if allowed to live to 6-8 (which that age is fantasy land for good genetic bucks unless you control thousands of contiguous acres) is way too high. Are there areas with really good or trashy genetics that 5/10 may be able to reach 180”…yes, but as a whole across our State, absolutely no way. I still think 1/10 bucks have the potential to reach 180” by age 5 or 6. That is an achievable age with good management and some luck. You don’t have to own lots of acres to get a buck to that age if you have enough food, the right cover, water, does, control bullies and low pressure hunt it. Having neighbors on the same page obviously helps. However, you won’t see bucks like that every year so don’t expect to.

Think about what percentage of bucks on Iowa’s landscape are clean 8 points. A couple years ago I was looking to see how many 8 points were in B&C record books and at that time. There were less than 40 or something like that. That is forty 8 points that made it past 170” not 180”. Now that is net score obviously so they likely grossed higher, but none the less to break 170” as an 8 point is an absolute Toad. To break 180” is Crazy Stupid Big. Last I checked, the Boone and Crockett world record 8 point was 184 5/8”. Eight pointers that are that caliber don’t even look real. Look up Jason Sanders Illinois buck to get an idea. It grossed 192 3/8. But had 30/32” main beams (places top 5 all time in beam length), 22 3/8” inside spread, 16/14” G2’s and 12” G3, ultimately netted 184 7/8”. One (kicker point) that measured 1 6/8 lowered the final score to 183 1/8”.

Now take 10 pointers, they have to have good mass, good beam length, good brow times good G2’s, good G3’s and great g4’s to even stand a chance of breaking 180”. Not every 10 point has those genetics. Seems like most will be lacking at least one of those and thus won’t ever break 180”. Whether that is short brows, short G2, or short G 4’s. So if you don’t have really trashy genetics where bucks throw a lot of extra points or are a main frame 12 point with some decent tine length you won’t see very many break 180” even if they live to age 6+. There is no way 5/10 bucks have the genetics to achieve 180” across Iowa as a whole.

Posting unrealistic expectations like that on a forum where young guys come to learn about herd management, land management, and hunting in general is disappointing. Because guys believing that will have a very disappointing Fall and likely hunting journey in general waiting for a 180”.

I would encourage guys to try to let bucks with 10 points or more get to 5 years old and those with the best genetic traits to 6 if you’re wanting to put top end bucks on the wall. Cull bully bucks with less than 10 points by age 4, (now if you have a monster 8 that looks like he could blow up go ahead and pass him) especially those bucks that don’t look to have the genetics to reach 180”. Have realistic goals based on the acres you manage and enjoy the management process because shooting big culls is fun and rewarding. If your enjoyment is solely based on shooting bucks over 180” you’re likely going to be very disappointed. In most areas with our current population levels you might get the chance to legitimately hunt for a 180”+ buck one or two years every decade (unless you control thousands of acres).

Now if we are able to increase our doe population by 250,000 then the sky would be the limit. You might have a 180”+ every third year (possibly every other year) depending on the genetics in your neighborhood. Regardless, the number of 160”+ bucks on the landscape would really make days in the stand enjoyable. But until we get the population up there have realistic goals and keep culling.

During the best years of Iowa with permission to bowhunt 865 contiguous acres in one of the best areas with one other guy (we hunted together/in cooperation with each other and were best friends so not competing) we would see ONE deer over 180" per year most years. About every third or fourth year we would see two and one year we saw 4. That doesn't mean we had an opportunity. Those were sightings. Even though it was good habitat, there was still a lot of hunting pressure around the boarders. Even at that time, there were a lot more deer, but a small percentage reached the upper age classes needed to become giants. At the time, my hunting partner and I had no idea how to age deer on the hoof. We were deciding purely on score. I'm sure we killed some 3 and 4 year old studs that were in the 150s and 160s. I know information on aging deer is a lot more prevalent now, but wonder how many people are actually basing their goals on that and following through vs antler size.