IW 2026 Poll Results

[iowaqdm]

They wouldn’t be able to if thermals were added to existing law which does not allow Night Vision or any artificial light.
Precisely why law enforcement is pulling guys over they know or strongly suspect are poaching…. there is no night vision or spotlights but there is: thermals with suppressed rifles. The poachers are absolutely using this option to make it far easier to poach and not get caught. Law enforcement is extremely frustrated on how this is exploited by the scumbag poachers.
Pulled over with NV or spotlight - done - CO can immediately start writing tickets & escalating. Pulled over with thermals “I was just shooting coons and coyotes”.
I’m in around 8 counties during deer season. Talk to a big amount of CO’s on this issue…… whether you are for or against thermals during deer season…. it’s happening “a lot”. No one, even on here, would grasp how many lunatics are out in “good areas” scanning fields & poaching from 10pm to 3am. Most are asleep or gone. These dudes do this suppressed. Another thing folks don’t understand ….. how many guys from down south: Louisiana, arksansas, MS, FL, etc or up N like WI or MN….. drive here & spend a week doing this. All at night. We’ve had piles of them in the last 5 years & it’s getting worse, not better. This is these guys “hunting season”. They know if they get pulled over - Almost nothing a co can do unless they catch em in act or with the body. Many scumbags are getting pulled over & almost nothing you can do. But… the Vast majority are not being pulled over as no one hears or sees it going on. It’s the unknown problem of the night in iowa. & it’s far more common than anyone on here might realize. & a bigger pile of these idiots are adding thermal drones to the mix. As thermals come down in price - this is just gonna get worse. Whether u for using them during deer season or not- the reality is- it’s getting worse.


Ok few honest questions…..
1) what would u guys guess the number of guys statewide that thermal hunt during deer season for coyotes is???? 500? 5000? 50000? Genuinely curious.
2) how many would quit if you could only use thermals for 8 months of the year? Plus regular scopes 12 months of the year.
3) how many DEER HUNTERS are out there pounding coyotes with thermals in November for example? Genuine ? My bias on that: I’m exhausted during deer season or im focused on deer. If someone asked me to thermal on Nov 10- ha, no way!!!!! November is probably the worst month for thermal poaching of deer btw.
4) what else can be done? Cause it’s a frigin problem!!!!! Other ideas if u want to keep thermals during deer season…. $20k fine & 5 years loss of hunting & confiscation of all equipment (vehicles included when used in crimes) if caught poaching with thermals? Must be in a locked case with no accessible ammo while in vehicle? I will say this- the problem is getting worse. Why most states have banned it. We have to do SOMETHING & very open to hearing views.
5) my last FAIR QUESTION to my friends that don’t want to see them go or get restricted in deer season: would u be in favor of also allowing Night Vision & spotlights for coyotes during deer season?

Honest question…So under current Iowa law, I am not allowed to possess a firearm and any artificial light or night vision in my vehicle at the same time?

So you are saying that if I am driving down the road with a firearm and a high powered flashlight the game warden can start writing me tickets? My second amendment rights are infringed upon because I have a flashlight?…or night vision? Or just by possessing both at the same time I am now in violation of Iowa game laws? I mean last time I checked it was legal to own a flashlight, legal to own night vision, legal to own thermals, and legal to own firearms. Since when did we switch from being presumed innocent to presumed guilty in this country? Or do you still have to be caught actually using them to be in violation??? Honest question.

As far as night vision and spot lights for coyotes and raccoons…I wouldn’t care either way. I think a poacher is gonna poach. Law’s written on the books won’t stop them. If you made it so they could take their equipment or trucks they will strap a cheap thermal on an old bolt action with a suppressor and drive a $2,500 dollar truck. Even if they get caught and you were able to take everything they’re out 5k. Tack on 20k in trophy fines. Probably a break even situation on the first 220” they kill. The guy’s that are serious about trying to poach monster bucks will continue regardless of any laws you pass. But if you give law enforcement the power to take guys pickups and weapons for violating a game law that is some pretty powerful stuff. Might be ripe for “abuse” by some in law enforcement. Just like some State’s forfeiture laws. I don’t think I would like to see that power given to any law enforcement officer over any deer… regardless of how big it is. In the end it is just a deer. I value my/our constitutional rights way more than any deer or wildlife violation.

The only guy’s you’re actually hurting are your friends and fellow hunters who aren’t doing anything wrong. That’s like accusing a friend of driving drunk when you see them carrying a case of beer out of the grocery store. When in actuality he hasn’t had a drop and is just heading home to watch the football game with a couple of his buddies later that evening. He hasn’t done anything wrong yet your assumption is he has, he will, or that his buddies will. That’s not how it is supposed to work. Just a thought……

 

[DMarley83]

Honest question…So under current Iowa law, I am not allowed to possess a firearm and any artificial light or night vision in my vehicle at the same time?

So you are saying that if I am driving down the road with a firearm and a high powered flashlight the game warden can start writing me tickets? My second amendment rights are infringed upon because I have a flashlight?…or night vision? Or just by possessing both at the same time I am now in violation of Iowa game laws? I mean last time I checked it was legal to own a flashlight, legal to own night vision, legal to own thermals, and legal to own firearms. Since when did we switch from being presumed innocent to presumed guilty in this country? Or do you still have to be caught actually using them to be in violation??? Honest question.

As far as night vision and spot lights for coyotes and raccoons…I wouldn’t care either way. I think a poacher is gonna poach. Law’s written on the books won’t stop them. If you made it so they could take their equipment or trucks they will strap a cheap thermal on an old bolt action with a suppressor and drive a $2,500 dollar truck. Even if they get caught and you were able to take everything they’re out 5k. Tack on 20k in trophy fines. Probably a break even situation on the first 220” they kill. The guy’s that are serious about trying to poach monster bucks will continue regardless of any laws you pass. But if you give law enforcement the power to take guys pickups and weapons for violating a game law that is some pretty powerful stuff. Might be ripe for “abuse” by some in law enforcement. Just like some State’s forfeiture laws. I don’t think I would like to see that power given to any law enforcement officer over any deer… regardless of how big it is. In the end it is just a deer. I value my/our constitutional rights way more than any deer or wildlife violation.

The only guy’s you’re actually hurting are your friends and fellow hunters who aren’t doing anything wrong. That’s like accusing a friend of driving drunk when you see them carrying a case of beer out of the grocery store. When in actuality he hasn’t had a drop and is just heading home to watch the football game with a couple of his buddies later that evening. He hasn’t done anything wrong yet your assumption is he has, he will, or that his buddies will. That’s not how it is supposed to work. Just a thought……

More like you assume he's driving drunk when leaving the bar district at closing time.
And let's be real he is drunk.

Driving in the middle of the night with a loaded thermal rifle nov14 100s of miles away from the adress on your id vs driving down the road middle of the night with a cased unloaded rifle with thermal/tripod/and calls Feb 15 50 miles from home. You do the math.

I think what hes getting at is yes law breakers will continue to break the law but you can not have such an easy scape goat. Im just
"Coyote hunting"

My question (where at) "show me the piece you were or going to go"

Also I think law curves the behavior of 95% + of the population, maybe more. Sure some will continue to cheat but the general population will follow the rules.

 

[Sligh1]

There’s no way they can ticket you for having IR in your truck. You have to be caught in the act of using it. That’s the biggest pile of crap ever. You can constitutional carry there’s no laws saying you can’t have IR, NV on your gun either. If you want to make the difference make the law gun has to be cased and cased separately from ammunition.

The argument saying if they see IR on your rifle is a done deal is the dumbest thing I think I’ve ever heard you say. And there’s no way in hell if they did do that that it would hold up in court

Good stuff CW!!! Kaboom!!!!
Your Honor…. May I approach the bench to clarify?

Ok, ok….. good catch & call…. I need to far better word that….
If u have them in ur truck - no. Not an issue & I did not word that well. Double concede to Iowaqdm as well….
What I’m saying is- when you’re pulled over with IR, spotlight & rifle….after CO gets called, sees suspicion of crime, report or seeing use of them in an act, etc…. You cannot say “I’m shooting coyotes & coons” like every poacher is doing right now with thermals. You cannot shine them into fields with a weapon!!!!!! Thermals- you can right now.

So - correct & you are spot on - right now I can drive around with IR & a spotlight. The second I shine that spotlight at game ….. yes, even a coyote or a coon, during deer season - u would be done as THAT is illegal.
The law would put thermals in the exact same category as IR & spotlights. Which, again - yes, Simple possession is not an issue nor will it be with thermals if in same class. Use in the field during deer season “I’m just shooting coyotes & coons” could never fly. thermals were added to the list like IR & spotlights - during deer season, the scumbags that are using that as their loophole out wide scale & growing - is now gone.
Touché on the call out. CW the “Hammer” & soon to be “CW, Iowa’s Leading Criminal Defense Attorney”


I am not hurting my friends IMO. If I were- by definition - I’d then be helping my friends to legalize IR & spotlights during deer season. My friends would have: 8 months of Thermal, IR, NV hunting for coyotes, 12 months of normal scopes and all of trapping season. I want to HURT the poachers…. I want to take away their ability to exploit a massive gap in the law - when IR & spotlights were banned- thermals were not main stream. My Friends & every hunter have been GIFTED 50 gazillion new technologies to hunt or kill in the last 20 years - dialing a few things back will be just fine. You know who isn’t “just fine”? The resource…. some major obstacles the last 5-15 years & some things we urgently need to address.
Asked several legislators & CO’s 3 things…
1) if thermals were big then- would intention of law be to include them with IR & artificial light? Answer is always “absolutely would have been added” + “need to be”.
2) are thermals & them being left out of current law being widely exploited by poachers? “ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!”
3) are we pulling over known or highly suspected poachers & lose the bust due to “just shooting coyotes & coons?” “YES!!!” Often & all over the state. They literally have to be caught in the act or find the body. Makes it so much harder vs IR & spotlights.
Problem is just gonna get worse. & for my friends that like to thermal hunt in November that are deer hunters…. When thermal poaching gets worse or they can’t catch or ticket the guys they know are doing it cause it’s so difficult - maybe rethink this position. I’d bottom line it here: states like Missouri even caught this problem & outlawed all of the use inside deer season. Giving the coyote hunters the 8 months of using them + 12 months of regular scopes. Many other states got ahead of this.
Like any issue, and I mean ANY….. as hunters…. It’s often only about us. “You’re taking away from ME”. It’s never solely about the resource & protecting it. Even when massive abuses are taking place, resource is hurt & law enforcement is asking for our help. We still say no. Anything …. We say no. Legalize flame throwers for deer season…. Guys will buy em, burn our forests down & we will go “I think we need to make flame throwers for deer hunting illegal” & the group that bought flame throwers will flip out!!! That’s being crazy but apply it to anything…. 3 buck tags on 2 acres, straight wall rifles, Drones. Or heck, legalize the use of drones with a gun “it’s my right!!!!!” Or any other thing u can think of.
We Realize it’s an issue & cut off a problem before it gets out of hand & starts hurting the resource even worse…. Some Dudes are gonna flip out. & yes, many things in these polls ARE HURTING THE RESOURCE!!!!!!!!! To some in society, it’s only about “ME”. I just strongly advocate we don’t look at it that way & look at it through “whats best for the resource!” You know…. That resource EVERYONE ON HERE knows is hurting & has been hurt by a hundred cuts. THAT RESOURCE that is hurting enough to start a 45 page thread saying essentially “those good old days are in the mirror & need a lot of help”. We all know it. If the fragile resource had a voice- it would be asking to consider them & not just “me me me”. The resource I love & love hunting ….. I want them to get that relief. Get some wins in their favor for the first time in 20 years! “ME ME ME” - we will be just fine. The resource, future, new hunter, working man & next generation needs some major help. Need For us to consider some things beyond ourselves.

 

[Matthewfox_45]

There’s no way they can ticket you for having IR in your truck. You have to be caught in the act of using it. That’s the biggest pile of crap ever. You can constitutional carry there’s no laws saying you can’t have IR, NV on your gun either. If you want to make the difference make the law gun has to be cased and cased separately from ammunition.

The argument saying if they see IR on your rifle is a done deal is the dumbest thing I think I’ve ever heard you say. And there’s no way in hell if they did do that that it would hold up in court

Innocent until proven guilty…except for guys with thermals, they’re all poachers.

 

[hillrunner]

How does to Iowa compare to other states on this issue? Do most states allow unrestricted thermal coyote hunting?

 

[Iowa]

ND shuts thermal down for gun season I know.

 

[newfarmer]

ND shuts thermal down for gun season I know.

I believe MN shuts down during deer season too

 

[Muskrat24]

Good stuff CW!!! Kaboom!!!!
Your Honor…. May I approach the bench to clarify?

Ok, ok….. good catch & call…. I need to far better word that….
If u have them in ur truck - no. Not an issue & I did not word that well. Double concede to Iowaqdm as well….
What I’m saying is- when you’re pulled over with night vision, spotlight & rifle….after CO gets called, sees suspicion of crime, report or seeing use of them in an act, etc…. You cannot say “I’m shooting coyotes & coons” like every poacher is doing right now with thermals. You cannot shine them into fields with a weapon!!!!!! Thermals- you can right now.

So - correct & you are spot on - right now I can drive around with NV & a spotlight. The second I shine that spotlight at game ….. yes, even a coyote or a coon, during deer season - u would be done as THAT is illegal.
The law would put thermals in the exact same category as NV & spotlights. Which, again - yes, Simple possession is not an issue nor will it be with thermals if in same class. Use in the field during deer season “I’m just shooting coyotes & coons” could never fly. thermals were added to the list like NV & spotlights - during deer season, the scumbags that are using that as their loophole out wide scale & growing - is now gone.
Touché on the call out. CW the “Hammer” & soon to be “CW, Iowa’s Leading Criminal Defense Attorney”


I am not hurting my friends IMO. If I were- by definition - I’d then be helping my friends to legalize night vision & spotlights during deer season. My friends would have: 8 months of Thermal & NV hunting for coyotes, 12 months of normal scopes and all of trapping season. I want to HURT the poachers…. I want to take away their ability to exploit a massive gap in the law - when NV & spotlights were banned- thermals were not main stream. My Friends & every hunter have been GIFTED 50 gazillion new technologies to hunt or kill in the last 20 years - dialing a few things back will be just fine. You know who isn’t “just fine”? The resource…. some major obstacles the last 5-15 years & some things we urgently need to address.
Asked several legislators & CO’s 3 things…
1) if thermals were big then- would intention of law be to include them with NV & artificial light? Answer is always “absolutely would have been added” + “need to be”.
2) are thermals & them being left out of current law being widely exploited by poachers? “ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!”
3) are we pulling over known or highly suspected poachers & lose the bust due to “just shooting coyotes & coons?” “YES!!!” Often & all over the state. They literally have to be caught in the act or find the body. Makes it so much harder vs NV & spotlights.
Problem is just gonna get worse. & for my friends that like to thermal hunt in November that are deer hunters…. When thermal poaching gets worse or they can’t catch or ticket the guys they know are doing it cause it’s so difficult - maybe rethink this position. I’d bottom line it here: states like Missouri even caught this problem & outlawed all of the use inside deer season. Giving the coyote hunters the 8 months of using them + 12 months of regular scopes. Many other states got ahead of this.
Like any issue, and I mean ANY….. as hunters…. It’s often only about us. “You’re taking away from ME”. It’s never solely about the resource & protecting it. Even when massive abuses are taking place, resource is hurt & law enforcement is asking for our help. We still say no. Anything …. We say no. Legalize flame throwers for deer season…. Guys will buy em, burn our forests down & we will go “I think we need to make flame throwers for deer hunting illegal” & the group that bought flame throwers will flip out!!! That’s being crazy but apply it to anything…. 3 buck tags on 2 acres, straight wall rifles, Drones. Or heck, legalize the use of drones with a gun “it’s my right!!!!!” Or any other thing u can think of.
We Realize it’s an issue & cut off a problem before it gets out of hand & starts hurting the resource even worse…. Some Dudes are gonna flip out. & yes, many things in these polls ARE HURTING THE RESOURCE!!!!!!!!! To some in society, it’s only about “ME”. I just strongly advocate we don’t look at it that way & look at it through “whats best for the resource!” You know…. That resource EVERYONE ON HERE knows is hurting & has been hurt by a hundred cuts. THAT RESOURCE that is hurting enough to start a 45 page thread saying essentially “those good old days are in the mirror & need a lot of help”. We all know it. If the fragile resource had a voice- it would be asking to consider them & not just “me me me”. The resource I love & love hunting ….. I want them to get that relief. Get some wins in their favor for the first time in 20 years! “ME ME ME” - we will be just fine. The resource, future, new hunter, working man & next generation needs some major help. Need For us to consider some things beyond ourselves.

Skip, as we have talked this problem is in your quadrant of the state for the most part. Good luck finding a 200” deer in most of the state right now let alone enough to drive the roads with a thermal and get one you can tell it’s the deer the poacher from who knows what state is after. I’m honestly fine with not using thermals if it makes a bunch of you happy but not gonna have any positive affect to the mature deer around me. What I can say is why don’t we tone down the advertising how great Iowa deer hunting is by our biologist on podcasts and say it like it is to help take the target off these bucks. Did anyone know that Indiana, correct me nicely if I am wrong, allows thermal coyote hunting year around? ( I struggled with my Google search of actual Indiana regs but what articles I found said year around). So one buck saved Indiana but baiting, cell cams and thermals haven’t killed it but they are why Iowa has no big bucks left. What’s missing, maybe 300k deer…. As I mentioned before, (not serious but legit question) why don’t we make it illegal to hunt over standing ag crops, I’m pretty confident that will save more quality bucks than the ones shot by thermal poachers from god knows what state.

 

[Sligh1]

Skip, as we have talked this problem is in your quadrant of the state for the most part. Good luck finding a 200” deer in most of the state right now let alone enough to drive the roads with a thermal and get one you can tell it’s the deer the poacher from who knows what state is after. I’m honestly fine with not using thermals if it makes a bunch of you happy but not gonna have any positive affect to the mature deer around me. What I can say is why don’t we tone down the advertising how great Iowa deer hunting is by our biologist on podcasts and say it like it is to help take the target off these bucks. Did anyone know that Indiana, correct me nicely if I am wrong, allows thermal coyote hunting year around? ( I struggled with my Google search of actual Indiana regs but what articles I found said year around). So one buck saved Indiana but baiting, cell cams and thermals haven’t killed it but they are why Iowa has no big bucks left. What’s missing, maybe 300k deer…. As I mentioned before, (not serious but legit question) why don’t we make it illegal to hunt over standing ag crops, I’m pretty confident that will save more quality bucks than the ones shot by thermal poachers from god knows what state.

Bill passed subcommittee to end the promotional tags that celebs can get to skip the line & are required to promote to audiences that now range in 7 figure views for each tag. Doesn’t mean others won’t promote it but that bill will eliminate countless millions of promotion of the top .0001% of farms hunted by these celebs. That’s a big step & a very big deal. Legislation often times takes several sessions to finally pass but this one will eventually pass.

 

[seven twenty]

Good stuff CW!!! Kaboom!!!!
Your Honor…. May I approach the bench to clarify?

Ok, ok….. good catch & call…. I need to far better word that….
If u have them in ur truck - no. Not an issue & I did not word that well. Double concede to Iowaqdm as well….
What I’m saying is- when you’re pulled over with night vision, spotlight & rifle….after CO gets called, sees suspicion of crime, report or seeing use of them in an act, etc…. You cannot say “I’m shooting coyotes & coons” like every poacher is doing right now with thermals. You cannot shine them into fields with a weapon!!!!!! Thermals- you can right now.

So - correct & you are spot on - right now I can drive around with NV & a spotlight. The second I shine that spotlight at game ….. yes, even a coyote or a coon, during deer season - u would be done as THAT is illegal.
The law would put thermals in the exact same category as NV & spotlights. Which, again - yes, Simple possession is not an issue nor will it be with thermals if in same class. Use in the field during deer season “I’m just shooting coyotes & coons” could never fly. thermals were added to the list like NV & spotlights - during deer season, the scumbags that are using that as their loophole out wide scale & growing - is now gone.
Touché on the call out. CW the “Hammer” & soon to be “CW, Iowa’s Leading Criminal Defense Attorney”


I am not hurting my friends IMO. If I were- by definition - I’d then be helping my friends to legalize night vision & spotlights during deer season. My friends would have: 8 months of Thermal & NV hunting for coyotes, 12 months of normal scopes and all of trapping season. I want to HURT the poachers…. I want to take away their ability to exploit a massive gap in the law - when NV & spotlights were banned- thermals were not main stream. My Friends & every hunter have been GIFTED 50 gazillion new technologies to hunt or kill in the last 20 years - dialing a few things back will be just fine. You know who isn’t “just fine”? The resource…. some major obstacles the last 5-15 years & some things we urgently need to address.
Asked several legislators & CO’s 3 things…
1) if thermals were big then- would intention of law be to include them with NV & artificial light? Answer is always “absolutely would have been added” + “need to be”.
2) are thermals & them being left out of current law being widely exploited by poachers? “ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!”
3) are we pulling over known or highly suspected poachers & lose the bust due to “just shooting coyotes & coons?” “YES!!!” Often & all over the state. They literally have to be caught in the act or find the body. Makes it so much harder vs NV & spotlights.
Problem is just gonna get worse. & for my friends that like to thermal hunt in November that are deer hunters…. When thermal poaching gets worse or they can’t catch or ticket the guys they know are doing it cause it’s so difficult - maybe rethink this position. I’d bottom line it here: states like Missouri even caught this problem & outlawed all of the use inside deer season. Giving the coyote hunters the 8 months of using them + 12 months of regular scopes. Many other states got ahead of this.
Like any issue, and I mean ANY….. as hunters…. It’s often only about us. “You’re taking away from ME”. It’s never solely about the resource & protecting it. Even when massive abuses are taking place, resource is hurt & law enforcement is asking for our help. We still say no. Anything …. We say no. Legalize flame throwers for deer season…. Guys will buy em, burn our forests down & we will go “I think we need to make flame throwers for deer hunting illegal” & the group that bought flame throwers will flip out!!! That’s being crazy but apply it to anything…. 3 buck tags on 2 acres, straight wall rifles, Drones. Or heck, legalize the use of drones with a gun “it’s my right!!!!!” Or any other thing u can think of.
We Realize it’s an issue & cut off a problem before it gets out of hand & starts hurting the resource even worse…. Some Dudes are gonna flip out. & yes, many things in these polls ARE HURTING THE RESOURCE!!!!!!!!! To some in society, it’s only about “ME”. I just strongly advocate we don’t look at it that way & look at it through “whats best for the resource!” You know…. That resource EVERYONE ON HERE knows is hurting & has been hurt by a hundred cuts. THAT RESOURCE that is hurting enough to start a 45 page thread saying essentially “those good old days are in the mirror & need a lot of help”. We all know it. If the fragile resource had a voice- it would be asking to consider them & not just “me me me”. The resource I love & love hunting ….. I want them to get that relief. Get some wins in their favor for the first time in 20 years! “ME ME ME” - we will be just fine. The resource, future, new hunter, working man & next generation needs some major help. Need For us to consider some things beyond ourselves.

Im not against limiting thermal use during the deer seasons but let’s be realistic. Very few are hunting from April to Sept, thermal or not. You’re literally shutting them down to a couple three decent months. Thermals just aren’t as effective when it gets warm out. Go lay down in a cornfield and ask the guy with the thermal drone to find you in August. He probably will but it’s not as easy as you think it would be.
The coyote hunters around here don’t hunt at least until after the shotgun seasons just to keep the peace with LOs and not put themselves in questionable positions with the law. If it's being abused as widely as you claim Skip, why are we not hearing of it? If they are losing cases, it’s because they have no evidence, not because of the law. Like CW & Iowa said, just having the equipment isn’t illegal.
Another misconception I think you’re having is with the NV. The only thing that is against the rules is the IR light source. There is nothing in the rules concerning the scope itself. A good NV scope amplifies the “available” light enough that the IR isn’t necessarily needed all of the time. In other words, driving around with the NV scope and no IR light during deer seasons isn’t the illegal part. The rule specifically states that “ no person shall use an infra red light source”. In order to be completely effective, they need to ban the scope. It’s useable without the light but the light is useless without the scope.

You’re still stuck on “3 buck tags on 2 acres”, LOL. I’ll bet you a steak dinner that not a single one of the 213 people who used 3 “anysex” tags on antlered deer last year took all 3 on their own ground. Heck, I’ll buy you a dinner if you can show me a statewide buck tag. No question that there are some abuses but you’ll have that regardless. Honest question: what is the issue with “acres”? A person can lose more $$$ with a 10% net loss on a specialty crop than somebody else with 40 acres of corn or beans would lose at the same 10%. I vote for addressing the abuse, then see where we stand and go from there. How many plots of 40+ are being claimed but fall outside the “ag use” guidelines? We all know of timbers that aren’t being logged. Or how about the guy that rents everything out, then both him and the tenant hunt it. Let’s enforce the rules we have, if we can’t do that how are the new ones supposed to get enforced.

In all seriousness, another point that hasn’t been addressed or considered but I think would have a major impact on the current situation deals with the bonus antlerless. As it is now, a person can purchase antlerless tags for one of the shotgun seasons then purchase their anysex for the late ML. This allows them to shoot a minimum of 3 bucks also. They’ve got archery, “shared tags” during shotgun, and late ML to hunt. Throw a LoT in there and somebody is shooting 4. If they were to make the antlerless tags good for only the season an anysex was purchased, that would save deer and eliminate a person hunting all seasons. Back when a person had to decide between SG and ML, the gun seasons were a lot less crowded and it opened up ground. Removing bonus tags from a good amount of counties as is happening will help eliminate the issue In those areas. Going statewide with matching your anysex and antlerless to the same season would be a game changer tho.

 

[Slick]

There’s no way they can ticket you for having IR in your truck. You have to be caught in the act of using it. That’s the biggest pile of crap ever. You can constitutional carry there’s no laws saying you can’t have IR, NV on your gun either. If you want to make the difference make the law gun has to be cased and cased separately from ammunition.
The argument saying if they see IR on your rifle is a done deal is the dumbest thing I think I’ve ever heard you say. And there’s no way in hell if they did do that that it would hold up in court

Curtis you have been quiet lately. I was starting to think ICE had you on the run.

 

[Sligh1]

Im not against limiting thermal use during the deer seasons but let’s be realistic. Very few are hunting from April to Sept, thermal or not. You’re literally shutting them down to a couple three decent months. Thermals just aren’t as effective when it gets warm out. Go lay down in a cornfield and ask the guy with the thermal drone to find you in August. He probably will but it’s not as easy as you think it would be.
The coyote hunters around here don’t hunt at least until after the shotgun seasons just to keep the peace with LOs and not put themselves in questionable positions with the law. If it's being abused as widely as you claim Skip, why are we not hearing of it? If they are losing cases, it’s because they have no evidence, not because of the law. Like CW & Iowa said, just having the equipment isn’t illegal.
Another misconception I think you’re having is with the NV. The only thing that is against the rules is the IR light source. There is nothing in the rules concerning the scope itself. A good NV scope amplifies the “available” light enough that the IR isn’t necessarily needed all of the time. In other words, driving around with the NV scope and no IR light during deer seasons isn’t the illegal part. The rule specifically states that “ no person shall use an infra red light source”. In order to be completely effective, they need to ban the scope. It’s useable without the light but the light is useless without the scope.

You’re still stuck on “3 buck tags on 2 acres”, LOL. I’ll bet you a steak dinner that not a single one of the 213 people who used 3 “anysex” tags on antlered deer last year took all 3 on their own ground. Heck, I’ll buy you a dinner if you can show me a statewide buck tag. No question that there are some abuses but you’ll have that regardless. Honest question: what is the issue with “acres”? A person can lose more $$$ with a 10% net loss on a specialty crop than somebody else with 40 acres of corn or beans would lose at the same 10%. I vote for addressing the abuse, then see where we stand and go from there. How many plots of 40+ are being claimed but fall outside the “ag use” guidelines? We all know of timbers that aren’t being logged. Or how about the guy that rents everything out, then both him and the tenant hunt it. Let’s enforce the rules we have, if we can’t do that how are the new ones supposed to get enforced.

In all seriousness, another point that hasn’t been addressed or considered but I think would have a major impact on the current situation deals with the bonus antlerless. As it is now, a person can purchase antlerless tags for one of the shotgun seasons then purchase their anysex for the late ML. This allows them to shoot a minimum of 3 bucks also. They’ve got archery, “shared tags” during shotgun, and late ML to hunt. Throw a LoT in there and somebody is shooting 4. If they were to make the antlerless tags good for only the season an anysex was purchased, that would save deer and eliminate a person hunting all seasons. Back when a person had to decide between SG and ML, the gun seasons were a lot less crowded and it opened up ground. Removing bonus tags from a good amount of counties as is happening will help eliminate the issue In those areas. Going statewide with matching your anysex and antlerless to the same season would be a game changer tho.

Infrared…. Yes, correction made. True. Which again- when speaking with legislators educated on this or CO’s: they want it added to artificial light class & would have if technology was out or wide scale when law made. It’s being used and the loophole abused. I could go on for pages on poaching incidents. & the trajectory is MORE, not less as more acquire this stuff.

I guess it’s new to me these significant & large numbers of guys that are out coyote hunting in deer season. Over a big handful of counties - I just don’t see “all these guys” coyote hunting or telling me about it. When I hear about it - often times it’s “I went twice in November”. Maybe I’m wrong though. I just don’t know that many guys that really get after coyotes hard core in Oct, Nov …. Late December’s to about March is when I personally see the vast majority doing it. Maybe I’m wrong though???
Poaching is happening large & wide scale - again, I could write pages on this but I’ll leave it out. If I had to take a WILD GUESS……. 50% or more of guys using thermals in Nov are not after coyotes. 2 am, Louisiana license plate on Nov 9, “shooting coyotes” - sorry - they weren’t. & unlimited other real examples like that

Maybe an alternative is: u poach out a vehicle window: 10 years no hunting, seize vehicle & all used in crime, jail time & massive fines.

The LO program is abused, lacks merit for a buck & needs reform. Period. Deer hurting your specialty crops… (which I have!!!! & put a frigin fence around them!!!!)…. Get a landowner ANTLERLESS tag. U don’t need 3 buck tags for your specialty crops or any crop. & agree- don’t need em for your hunting farm. It was created for farmers to shoot more deer on ag land, very simple. Now- it’s morphed into “u can’t take away my 3rd buck tag for 5 acres”….. the law was not created for that guy!!! The bonus on this, Law enforcement have to dig into violations, validity of the LO tag, uses off the LO land, people who don’t qualify …. When they are trying to do other things. They want it adjusted. Rightfully so. U own 4.7 acres & want a tag…. Should be antlerless if we gave one at all. & I don’t believe an antlerless tag is warranted on these little tracts either…. But sure doesnt warrant a buck tag. Last- way more than 213 people filled tags. Tag sharing: legally during gun seasons or illegally, doesn’t account for this & that’s no low figure.

Totally agree with last paragraph. The whole system “went too far”. That’s my whole point….. tags: antlerless & antlered, 3+ bucks. 4.5 months of hunting season with all these new technologies to kill far effectively. Every new technology that comes out “yep- no problem!!!!!” Remove any: “you can’t do that!!!!” from a portion of folks. It’s so predictable & it’s pretty easy to show the weak spots on what has been added or changed in 5-15 years…. Long list. Easy to fix if we can actually work on that list & work on the issues & tools that law enforcement are asking for.

 

[newfarmer]

Infrared…. Yes, correction made. True. Which again- when speaking with legislators educated on this or CO’s: they want it added to artificial light class & would have if technology was out or wide scale when law made. It’s being used and the loophole abused. I could go on for pages on poaching incidents. & the trajectory is MORE, not less as more acquire this stuff.

I guess it’s new to me these significant & large numbers of guys that are out coyote hunting in deer season. Over a big handful of counties - I just don’t see “all these guys” coyote hunting or telling me about it. When I hear about it - often times it’s “I went twice in November”. Maybe I’m wrong though. I just don’t know that many guys that really get after coyotes hard core in Oct, Nov …. Late December’s to about March is when I personally see the vast majority doing it. Maybe I’m wrong though???
Poaching is happening large & wide scale - again, I could write pages on this but I’ll leave it out. If I had to take a WILD GUESS……. 50% or more of guys using thermals in Nov are not after coyotes. 2 am, Louisiana license plate on Nov 9, “shooting coyotes” - sorry - they weren’t. & unlimited other real examples like that

Maybe an alternative is: u poach out a vehicle window: 10 years no hunting, seize vehicle & all used in crime, jail time & massive fines.

The LO program is abused, lacks merit for a buck & needs reform. Period. Deer hurting your specialty crops…. Get a landowner ANTLERLESS tag. U don’t need 3 buck tags for your specialty crops or any crop. & agree- don’t need em for your hunting farm. It was created for farmers to shoot more deer on ag land, very simple. Now- it’s morphed into “u can’t take away my 3rd buck tag for 5 acres”….. the law was not created for that guy!!! The bonus on this, Law enforcement have to dig into violations, validity of the LO tag, uses off the LO land, people who don’t qualify …. When they are trying to do other things. They want it adjusted. Rightfully so. U own 4.7 acres & want a tag…. Should be antlerless if we gave one at all. & I don’t believe an antlerless tag is warranted on these little tracts either…. But sure doesnt warrant a buck tag. Last- way more than 213 people filled tags. Tag sharing: legally during gun seasons or illegally, doesn’t account for this & that’s no low figure.

Totally agree with last paragraph. The whole system “went too far”. That’s my whole point….. tags: antlerless & antlered, 3+ bucks. 4.5 months of hunting season with all these new technologies to kill far effectively. Every new technology that comes out “yep- no problem!!!!!” Remove any: “you can’t do that!!!!” from a portion of folks. It’s so predictable & it’s pretty easy to show the weak spots on what has been added or changed in 5-15 years…. Long list. Easy to fix if we can actually work on that list & work on the issues & tools that law enforcement are asking for.

Actually- going back a very long time- LO tags WERE for small acreages because THATS HOW PEOPLE MADE THEIR LIVING. The people doing specialty crops and not having “day jobs + farming” were as concerned. There are still people today doing the same thing- it’s a shame someone can say they guy that is row cropping 1000 acres deserves a tag versus a small family operation on 15 acres that depends on that 15 acres to live. Either get rid of them all- or revisit the actual regs. Go back to landowner only, and register ALL parcels so it can’t be abused by people just registering different parcels. My example for that is my neighbor owns a piece that is separated by a road- so each side has a different parcel number. You know what- the dad claims one side, the son claims the other side as a tenant (it’s all woods). They BOTH get any sex tags.
However- I’ve read multiple times through different posts how everyone complains the lack of COs- and yet everyone wants to make it HARDER for them. I don’t get it.
I live next door to a trout stream and watching the abuse there alone is terrible- me and the CO are on a pretty good basis and the stories I can tell you are mind blowing on how thin he’s stretched. You factor in he’s covering fishing, hunting, and everything else he gets called for- while covering 2 counties- man, helping him seems like a no brainer.
He stopped by yesterday ironically after he left the neighbors- filled me in on an assumption of a dead buck laying in the neighbors yard. Neighbors heard “something” at about 2 am- but didn’t think about it. Woke up and a dead buck laying 25 yards from their house under their bird feeder. It was shot- the officer assumes thermal and suppressor- but trying to prove just anyone is difficult. So it’s a real thing they are seeing it happen.

 

[MarkF]

You’re still stuck on “3 buck tags on 2 acres”, LOL. I’ll bet you a steak dinner that not a single one of the 213 people who used 3 “anysex” tags on antlered deer last year took all 3 on their own ground.

I have a friend that’s done this multiple times, including this past season. I’ll tell Skip who it is so you can arrange that dinner.

 

[hillrunner]

The whole idea that a single either sex landowner tag is for the purpose of protecting crops is laughable. What, do they have 1 problem deer? Are the big antlered ones especially prone to crop predation ? Guys who actually want to do something about crop damage are applying for depridation tags and bringing in multiple hunters.
It helps if we can at least be honest about what we're talking about. I'm not saying the tags are good or bad, but they are definitely not moving the needle if you are losing a substantial amount of income to deer damage.

 

[Muskrat24]

So if we are being honest I’d like to split this discussion along with the 42+ page discussion. The original post on the 42+ page thread was how to get Iowa back to the good ole days. There are two points being made in the discussion. 1. How do we get back to the good ole days and that is population with some scale back of the technology increases. Keep in mind poachers were poaching back then. Spotlighting to locate a big buck and second vehicle following up with gun and light. 2. How do we improve where we are at now with current herd level with most of these arguments catering to small changes in overall mature deer with most noticeable improvement in areas that still have reasonable populations.
Two completely different viewpoints and problems. BOTH doomed IMO. Jace said recently on his most recent celebrity podcast interview that we are in a “balanced spot” and the early 2000s herd numbers were not healthy or sustainable. So population argument is not going to see much improvement. I am told that antlerless tags will be further reduced, we will see. The changing regs approach is also doomed to get mature deer numbers even respectable again because of the number of those changes needed to make a noticeable impact across the state. Today is the new Iowa big buck hunting going forward.

 

[Sligh1]

So if we are being honest I’d like to split this discussion along with the 42+ page discussion. The original post on the 42+ page thread was how to get Iowa back to the good ole days. There are two points being made in the discussion. 1. How do we get back to the good ole days and that is population with some scale back of the technology increases. Keep in mind poachers were poaching back then. Spotlighting to locate a big buck and second vehicle following up with gun and light. 2. How do we improve where we are at now with current herd level with most of these arguments catering to small changes in overall mature deer with most noticeable improvement in areas that still have reasonable populations.
Two completely different viewpoints and problems. BOTH doomed IMO. Jace said recently on his most recent celebrity podcast interview that we are in a “balanced spot” and the early 2000s herd numbers were not healthy or sustainable. So population argument is not going to see much improvement. I am told that antlerless tags will be further reduced, we will see. The changing regs approach is also doomed to get mature deer numbers even respectable again because of the number of those changes needed to make a noticeable impact across the state. Today is the new Iowa big buck hunting going forward.

What this would be saying in other words ( I agree with most your thoughts & I know we both care about future greatly!)….
1) dnr is not going to help hunting get better.
2) we as hunters are not willing to give anything up- a portion of us- so we cannot improve anything.
3) giving law enforcement more tools, clear laws & boundaries they can enforce - that is unlikely we can give them that.

I agree all 3 of those are an issue & how I worded it is just to cut to the chase a little faster.

Dnr is going to lower quotas. Mark my words. & guys- good luck finding a dnr that would react the way we did in western iowa. Cutting doe tags, etc. It may not be enough BUT….. almost every other state would not do this & has not done this …. For example…. No deer in Northern: WI, MN & MI- dnr either didn’t change quotas or did very little. To this day.
So….. our dnr does act. They act faster than other states. They are held up by legislators & farm bureau. If we can get them the same standing they had before Brandstad neutered them - they could do far more. Bottom line: dnr has done a lot. More is needed, we need them to change more & it’s likely we will.

Then- we have the CO’s &/or things we are being tasked with doing. Again- we are all asking the dnr for things to do for us…. Well- the dnr, CO’s, hunters & resource are asking things from us. We expect much from them but we can’t make any changes on our end???! Really??? Let’s think about that for a minute …. Anyone railing on the dnr to change things but unwilling to change anything on our side - does anyone see the irony, hypocrisy problem there?!????!?!?
We have problems & im not a pessimist. If we relegate ourselves to “we have to accept degraded resource” - sorry, I’m not joining that club. We can do better & it’s our duty to the resource, other hunters, future & to those asking for our help in dnr, law & legislator. Or even the struggling hunters asking for help- we should help them. We can solve any issue we truly want to.

 

[Muskrat24]

What this would be saying in other words ( I agree with most of this for sure!)….
1) dnr is not going to help hunting get better.
2) we as hunters are not willing to give anything up- a portion of us- so we cannot improve anything.
3) giving law enforcement more tools, clear laws & boundaries they can enforce - that is unlikely we can give them that.

I agree all 3 of those are an issue & how I worded it is just to cut to the chase a little faster.

Dnr is going to lower quotas. Mark my words. & guys- good luck finding a dnr that would react the way we did in western iowa. Cutting doe tags, etc. It may not be enough BUT….. almost every other state would not do this & has not done this …. For example…. No deer in Northern: WI, MN & MI- dnr either didn’t change quotas or did very little. To this day.
So….. our dnr does act. They act faster than other states. They are held up by legislators & farm bureau. If we can get them the same standing they had before Brandstad neutered them - they could do far more. Bottom line: dnr has done a lot. More is needed, we need them to change more & it’s likely we will.

Then- after the dnr we have the CO’s &/or things we are being tasked with doing. Again- we are all asking the dnr for things to do for us…. Well- the dnr, CO’s, hunters & resource are asking things from us. We expect much from them but we can’t make any changes on our end???! Really??? Let’s think about that for a minute …. Anyone railing on the dnr to change things but unwilling to change anything on our side - does anyone see the irony, hypocrisy problem there?!????!?!?
We have problems & im not a pessimist. If we relegate ourselves to “we have to accept degraded resource” - sorry, I’m not joining that club. We can do better & it’s our duty to the resource, other hunters, future & to those asking for our help in dnr, law & legislator. Or even the struggling hunters asking for help- we should help them. We can solve any issue we truly want to.

100% on board and doing it myself. Haven’t ever shot a deer with straight wall. Shot two bucks in last 8 years in Iowa. One of the two bucks was on cell cam a month before I killed him so I could care less about cell cams other than they save a little time and money. I am a realist not a pessimist. All I’m saying is what we used to enjoy is not reality at these numbers and the regs. Numbers stay where they are for 3/4 of Iowa the rest of the reg changes don’t make noticeable difference combined. Increase pop half what we lost and do all the changes we have suggested 100% Iowa would see impact across the board.

 

[CurtisWalker]

Curtis you have been quiet lately. I was starting to think ICE had you on the run.View attachment 130939

There bigger things in life than a forum about goats so my time on here has been limited. Also trying to avoid ICE so trying to limit my social media.

 

[Sligh1]

There bigger things in life than a forum about goats so my time on here has been limited. Also trying to avoid ICE so trying to limit my social media.

CW - bit moody lately!!! U need to get outdoors & get some quality time out there!!! ICE knows where you are…. Behave, be nice & I’ll keep them off your back.