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Bowhunter Surveys

NWBuck

PMA Member
Here's the annual reminder to get your bowhunter surveys turned in by the end of the week. Since I won't make it out again before Saturday I just sealed mine up and threw it in the mail. Was interesting to see the totals...

22 sits; 62.5 hours. Bucks seen=22; antlerless seen=117 (a bunch of these were fawns); not sure=13. Averaging just shy of 7 deer seen per sit of almost 3 hours.

Had plenty of opportunities, but the only arrow that left the string was on an unfortunate coyote who fell victim to the dreaded smooching squeak a couple of weeks ago :drink1:

NWBuck
 
How many of those were the same deer though? I wouldn't be skewing the numbers in anyway that will make them think that we have a high population. IMO summing the total # of deer that a person sees all season on the same properties is not a very accurate census. A person could say that they sat 20 times this year and saw 400 deer and that sounds like a they have deer everywhere on their land. But in all reality they could have been seeing the same 20 deer every night.

Not trying to argue with you, just saying I don't think we need to glorify our numbers if at all possible.
 
Here are some more numbers for you guys to take a look at. These are from hunters using the Non-Typical Whitetail Journal. These observations are from hunts in Iowa, with a bow and starting on October 1st of 2011. These observations are from hunters in 5 different counties.

418 Hours Hunted

378 Total Deer

134 Total Bucks (This includes mature bucks and spikes)

36 Mature Bucks (the journal asks that a mature buck be at least 3.5 years old. I know that is very subjective, but it is the best way we have to try to seperate mature bucks from all other bucks)

244 Does and Fawns

10 Harvests (4 Bucks and 6 Does)

Doe:Buck Ratio 1.82:1

This is the first year that the journal has been available to the public, so we don't have a huge number of users yet. The uses for this journal are endless. As always this may not be for everyone, but if you are interested in whitetail management or just like to keep track of what you see from year to year and learn something from your observations this is something you should really look in to.
 
I agree with Dedgeez. How many were the same deer. Especially the does. When I fill these out I may smidge on the doe side and not put as many. I don't want the DNR to use these numbers against us Hunters and say look at all the deer the bowhunters are seeing. WHo knows what new and idiotic season they will think of next.
 
How many of those were the same deer though? I wouldn't be skewing the numbers in anyway that will make them think that we have a high population. IMO summing the total # of deer that a person sees all season on the same properties is not a very accurate census. A person could say that they sat 20 times this year and saw 400 deer and that sounds like a they have deer everywhere on their land. But in all reality they could have been seeing the same 20 deer every night.

Not trying to argue with you, just saying I don't think we need to glorify our numbers if at all possible.

Probably a fault of being a math guy, but you guys are TOTALLY missing the point of this survey! They are not asking you to make judgements about seeing the same deer on the same land. They are not looking for a population CENSUS, but rather a population DENSITY! Two totally different things. If they were looking for a census, they would try to find some way to count the total number of deer in a given area. This could be arial surveys, roadside counts, etc. but wouldn't ask a hunter for a day-to-day survey count. What these surveys are trying to determine is a density for a given geographic area...thus the relationship to the county you hunted in; as well as the number of hunts and hours hunted. Now...in a given sit, if I am reasonably sure that a doe I saw early in the sit is the same one I saw later in the sit, I may not include it. But there is NO method even close to being scientific that would account for seeing the same does on the same piece of ground on different dates. That is NOT the purpose of the survey. If it were, they would've carefully explained that in the instructions, and the people to whom the surveys were sent would've been screened much more carefully.

I am not trying to influence the results of the survey as some of you seem to be doing. I am trying to let the numbers tell the story. So do what the survey asks you to do...record what you see and send it in. Don't reduce it in the interest of getting more favorable regulations for hunters. I'm a hunter too and would love to see more deer, but the DNR has professional people working for it, and they deserve the best, non-biased information we can give them. JMH(but mathematically educated)O.

NWBuck
 
Not meaning to rant, but did a quick search to find information I look at on an annual basis on the DNR site. Here is the link to the compiled information from the 2010 survey.

http://www.iowadnr.gov/portals/idnr/uploads/Hunting/bow_survey.pdf

Notice that the data compiled is number of deer observed (whether antlered, antlerless, total, etc.) per 1000 hours hunted...and it is broken down by region. This is good information, and if a person were to see 20 deer on a farm the first night they sat, and sit there 20 times during the season and see the same 20 deer each night, they should have recorded 400 deer based on the information the survey is looking for.

On a related note...we as hunters need to be careful what we wish for. There are really 2 competing schools of thought regarding the deer population. First, we want as many deer as possible (don't shoot ANY female deer); and second, we want the biggest bucks on the planet (don't shoot ANY male deer until they are huge). So the combination of these two would mean don't shoot ANYTHING! Then we'd have a bunch of deer everywhere, and huge bucks everywhere. Unfortunately, that is not an acceptable solution, on a number of fronts. Guys like me like deer meat, and like to shoot deer too. So I WANT to shoot a deer or two each year. I also like to have an occasional opportunity to shoot a big buck. So there is a balance to be struck. Maybe some of you on this forum are old enough, like me, to remember when getting an "any sex" tag for shotgun season was a real treat! Most years our tags read "antlered only", because the focus was on building the population. Now, the focus seems to have changed to big bucks, which means lay off the small bucks and shoot does...except many are now saying this is reducing the overall polulation too much on a localized or even statewide basis. As I said...a balance to be struck, and the DNR deserves the best, unbiased, information we can give them to help make these harvest regulations. Thanks for reading.

NWBuck
 
Well said NWbuck.

If nothing else this survey acts as a trending metric not a population metric. The data garnered from these surveys can be used in a variety of ways but the surveys are not the final answer, they are but a pixel in the overall image.

Mine is in the mail.
 
Just added up my sits:

108 hours on stand (not including youth season) - Most of this time was behind the camera filming my boys.

31 Bucks - Only 2 shooters

39 Does

31 Not sure

100 Turkeys - I am pumped for Spring

1 Fox

2 Coons

It was a frustrating season. I have grown accustomed to seeing 30 or more deer per sit and we usually see more than 2 shooters all season. My trail cam pics are even down in that category.

All in all it was a great season. I was very proud of the boys; they held true and harvested does when they could not get a "mature" buck.

mole
 
You guys that fudge your numbers are not doing the survey justice.It tells you to count every animal seen,even if you think it is one you have seen already.I just hope they take false reports into consideration. They are looking for observation rate.

I’m sure that I’m seeing the same animals over and over again. Should I count them again even though I’m sure they are the same
animals I already counted?​
Yes, record all animals you see regardless of whether you believe they are the same animals you saw a few minutes ago, a few hours ago, or a
few days ago. Please remember that the purpose of the bowhunter observation survey is NOT to estimate how many individual animals are in an area.
Instead, the DNR is interested in observation rates (i.e., the number of animals observed per hour(s) hunted). The idea is that as populations increase​
(decrease), these observation rates will also increase (decrease).
 
You guys that fudge your numbers are not doing the survey justice.It tells you to count every animal seen,even if you think it is one you have seen already.I just hope they take false reports into consideration. They are looking for observation rate.

I’m sure that I’m seeing the same animals over and over again. Should I count them again even though I’m sure they are the same
animals I already counted?​
Yes, record all animals you see regardless of whether you believe they are the same animals you saw a few minutes ago, a few hours ago, or a
few days ago. Please remember that the purpose of the bowhunter observation survey is NOT to estimate how many individual animals are in an area.
Instead, the DNR is interested in observation rates (i.e., the number of animals observed per hour(s) hunted). The idea is that as populations increase​
(decrease), these observation rates will also increase (decrease).

I have not received a survey in the last 2 years so I wasn't aware of how the data was gathered. I take back what I said and thanks for clearing this up.
 
I have kept track of what I have done and saw for the last 3 seasons. This past Nov-----57 hrs sitting----2 yearlings----1- 2 yr old-----1- 3 yr old---1,,, 5 yrs. Saw 2 does coming going to stand. Had 3 doe in one of my winter wheat plots most every night for a week, but not near my stands.
Also spooked what I think was a 3 yr old passing by a stand I was not in. I know,,some will say,,why go out? Someone has already said that, but compared to where I came from,,was exciting hunting! I know dismal compared to other areas...
 
I hear alot folk whining about the number of does!!!!! Oh! The doe season is killing us! Lordy, Lordy, dey tak'in to many does!!!!!! When will da massa stop da doe abuse!!!!!!! :D:D:D:D Ya want doe's!!!!!! I gott'em!!!!! Sorry guy's! I don't see low number of doe's!!!!!! I see alotta doe's with nothing behind them except their kids!!!!!!!! I hunt with bow only!! So I'm not giddy about gun kills on doe's!! Just don't see the low doe count!!!!!!! :confused:
 
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