Brassicas

[dbltree]

Sometimes it takes me a bit to put two and two together but two days after clipping my clover and alfalfa strips adjacent to my brassicas, they immediately started mowing my brassicas.

Just didn't really hit me that one had anything to do with the other but now that my alfalfa and clover has recovered and regrown, they are hammering them and allowing the brassicas to re-grow a bit.

You can see the Alice white clover is being hit pretty hard in this pic

Along the edges the brassicas still look pretty sad

but the interior of the plots are recovering nicely

We need rain in the worst way but still they are doing better then I expected after intially being grazed nearly to the ground

It appears that all of the varieties are recovering more or less equally.

The weather forecast was calling for good odds of rain Sunday (on Saturday) so I overseeded winter rye into the worst (most heavily grazed) brassicas and made a pass with some fertilizer across some just for a comparison check.

I returned home to see that within hours the forecast had changed and rain was perhaps several days off. You see why attempting to top dress fertilizer can be a crap shoot? Even with more stable forms of N, without rain it just doesn't reach the root zone while tilled in nitrogen is where it needs to be with or without rain.

This is a great time of year to pick up some dirt cheap fertilizer at places like Wally Mart as they try to clear the shelves for the season. I always nab a few bags of high N lawn fertilizer with OUT weed killer! It's usually at least partially treated with urease inhibitors so if one doesn't get rain it's not a total losss.

Some is going to end up in the leaf furls and may cause some minor burning but generally no serious harm

Where it was most heavily grazed I over seeded winter rye

You can see how dry and cracked the soil is so nothing is going germinate until we get rain

We'll check back on this if and when it ever does rain and see if the rye finally does germinate.

 

[dbltree]

I shared earlier pictures of brassicas that I planted after tilling down a stand of oats and berseem clover. The oats of course sprouted and grew with the brassicas, something that tends to become a problem as the brassicas and oats begin to compete.

I don't advocate mixing other crops with brassicas for this reason, they just don't coexist well, because one or the other will suffer.
These are brassicas that got ahead of the oats, in which case they have all but snuffed out the oats...

There they are thick and lush and growing well

but the oats also love all the nitrogen we tilled in and in some places they got the upperhand and had the reverse affect by suffucating the brassicas

If mature oats were really attractive and of high forage value, we would all be planting them on purpose...however they are not of course. The brassicas do provide a high quality food source well into early winter and the the turnip roots can feed deer when all else is gone after the new year.

I share these thoughts to illustrate the disadvantages of mixing other crops with brassicas versus planting them alone. Any other plants are going to compete for the very expensive fertilizer we apply but yet in the late season will have the least to offer our deer herd.

I find it is much more productive to plant side by side strips or sections of seperate crops of clover, brassicas and a winter rye and pea combination (or corn, beans and alfalfa for instance)

Each crop will thrive and your deer will have the very best of all types of top quality forage literally year around......:way:

***NOTE*** we have some heavy rain forecast over the next few days so now is the time to get some urea put on if you feel you need it!

 

[Alpha Doe]

I just wanted to share a couple of pictures of some Tyfon brassicas that we broadcasted in a standing corn field just ahead of a rain. This was just a trial attempt, so we didn't cover alot of area. Next year we'll try it on a larger scale. In the 3rd picture you can see the difference in growth of the brassicas that are actually in the corn compared to the brassicas in the plot that is in front of the corn (Winter Greens, I think). The corn brassicas were planted about 2-3 weeks later than the others. In a couple of the pictures you can see the brassicas around the corn field have been found the brassicas in the corn haven't been touched. Maybe it's because they are straight Tyfon and the others are mixtures.

Some have been found...

:thrwrck:

And (shhhh!) some are still hiding...

:way:

<DL class=postprofile id=profile14016><DT> </DT></DL>

 

[dbltree]

That's some good stuff right there!! Thanks for posting! :way:

 

[dbltree]

How and why does frost sweeten brassicas?

Frost sweetens all brassicas including those used for human consumption such as collard greens

in response to frost, these crops (and many other frost-tolerant crops) move water from the leaves to the roots. This increases the sugar concentration in the leaves which lowers the freezing point of the plant tissue. A side effect of this process is a sweeter flavor.

On one farm deer had not touched the brassicas until recently but strips of rye and peas planted next to the brassicas encouraged deer to feed there and now (with no frost) have begun foraging on the brassicas.

While rape varieties tend to be the first ones hit, I have found that they soon graze evenly on both rape and turnip tops and the turnip roots will provide a food source late in the winter after other crops are gone.

Even on farms where deer did not touch brassica tops the entire season, they always dig them up late in the winter when other food sources are scarce.

This is a Groundhog forage radish planted with my winter rye/pea/red clover planting. I mix them with my normal brassica planting (radish is a brassica) and find they graze them equally well but in the rye planting they prefer the succulant winter rye and peas allowing the radish to grow.

They will eat the tops later in the winter and the roots will help eliminate soil compaction problems and like rye, recycle nitrogen and pull up subsoil nutrients all while feeding your deer.

Remember if you have thin or heavily grazed brassicas that winter rye can easily be overseeded in to the brassica stand at up to 150#'s per acre.

This is winter rye I broadcast about 10 days ago just before we got 2" of rain...

 

[Hat Trick]

My dad and I ate a leaf two weeks ago and it tasted pretty good. I can only imagine what it must taste like to a deer after a frost.

 

[dbltree]

How deep do brassica roots go?

It depends on which brassica but forage radish tap roots can easily reach 6 feet or more.

Brassicas can root to depths of six feet or more, scavenging nutrients from below the rooting depth of most crops.

Brassicas have been studied at length for use as cover crops, suppressing weeds and recycling nitrogen as this link shows.

BRASSICAS AND MUSTARDS for cover crops


Brassicas are generally not considered winter hardy with the exception of winter canola (canola is just rapeseed brassica bred for oil seed production)

Winter canola is planted 4-6 weeks before frosts and generally relies on snow cover to protect the small plants thru the winter months. Using seed mixes with this type of brassica can result in plants surviving the winter and if allowed to go to seed (and they will if they are alive in the spring) will come back to haunt plotters.

Using RR canola also presents the possibility for problems down the road as it may be difficult to get rid of without the use of other herbicides.

My brassicas are stunted, yellowed, purplish and not growing

Brassicas are some what like corn in that they love nitrogen, plenty of soil moisture and good rich soils. They aren't fond of sandy soils but if they have all the needed nutrients along with plenty of rain they can do just fine.

They need 60-90#'s of nitrogen tilled in at planting and another 70#'s per acre half way thru their growing cycle if they are subjected to heavy grazing.

Nitrogen is of course one of the elements required and low levels of phosphorus and potassium are also going to cause problems.

Stunted and discolored brassicas are stressed, sometimes from lack of rain, too much rain, intense grazing and lack of needed nutrients including sulfur and boron.

Soil testing is the only way to avoid nutrient deficiency stress and give the plants a better chance at surviving the factors you can't control.

These are some of my brassicas that have recovered from some intense grazing pressure because they have everything they need.

These however are some that did not and this soil is obviously lacking to the point of being severe!

Same seed, planted the same day with plenty of nitrogen but clearly they are missing something that only a soil test will provide the answers too.

I tilled these under for winter rye and when I get the soil test back I'll share the results but every plot is different and soils can vary widely even on the same farm.

Correct PH problems and build up P&K levels after soil testing and then soil nutrients can be easily maintained using crop rotations of legumes and crops like winter rye and forage radish to pull up sub soil nutrients.......

 

[whitetail fanatic]

dbltree, do you know what causes dwarf essex rape to have reddish purple leaves and be stunted in some areas of a food plot right next to areas where the rape is much taller and the leaves are dark green? It seems to occur more in areas with more reddish clay (I think what you refer to as "ole clay knobs") and not so much in areas with better darker soils without red clay. I'm not sure if it's just the soil type, not good drainage, too low pH, not enough nitrogen, or some other reason. Thanks

 

[bowhuntr311]

Had to share what a few hard frosts can change on a persons brassicas. These pics are 10days apart I believe.

Most of these plants are DER and Rutebeggies (I think).

Before a few frosts

After a few.

Before

After

Both sets of pictures are relatively close to being the same plants. Camera might just been a different hieght and angle.

 

[dbltree]

a few hard frosts

Great pics 311! Looks like they prefer the "sweetend by frosts" brassicas!:way:

dbltree, do you know what causes dwarf essex rape to have reddish purple leaves and be stunted in some areas of a food plot right next to areas where the rape is much taller and the leaves are dark green? It seems to occur more in areas with more reddish clay (I think what you refer to as "ole clay knobs") and not so much in areas with better darker soils without red clay. I'm not sure if it's just the soil type, not good drainage, too low pH, not enough nitrogen, or some other reason. Thanks

It's stress...the question is it stress from grazing, stress from not enough soil moisture, soil compaction or lack of nutrients.

That's too many variables for us to guess so the first step is to take some soil samples from the stressed spots, mix them up and send them in to see what if any problems are going on there.

You can loosen and improve those "ole clay knobs" by rotating to winter rye/peas/forage radish and red clover every other year and adding any lime or fertilizer the soil is missing.

We can't control how much rainfall we get or over grazing but if you improve the soils then they can take a lot more stress with out whithering on you.

Start with a soil test and let us know what that reveals...

 

[dbltree]

My brassicas that were grazed down to a height of 2-4" never recovered but those that were grazed to 6-8" high and then given a rest did recover pretty well!

This is 10-12-09 several days after temps down to 29 degrees

They turned back to clover and alfalfa and that allowed the brassicas some time to recover and hopefully provide a draw at least into late November.

They are pounding both my Alice white clover

and Falcata alfalfa as 10-13 even after hard freezes

This is a rye plot with Groundhog Forage Radishes that was planted early September and recieved no rain for three weeks. Germination was spotty but those that did grew well until recently deer began hammering them!

They have fed on the early planted radishes but what i find interesting is that on this farm deer have never ever touched a brassica leaf of any kind yet they are now eating these forage radishes to the dirt!

I was also surprised to see the root development on such late planted radishes, but they have done well!

The radish root is what breaks up hardpan soils and recycles nitrogen much like winter rye so it makes an awesome plant to both feed deer and improve soils.

I mixed them at 5#'s per acre with my July brassica plantings and my September winter rye plantings...great stuff for $2.65 a pound from Welter Seed! :way:

 

[dbltree]

Grazing is starting to pick back up again on my brassicas...this as of 10-17

Still plenty of forage but while growth is still possible, the cooler temps will slow growth making it nearly impossible for them to keep up with grazing.

I was surprised to see some actually were able to make turnips this year!

Usually grazing is too intense to allow for much root growth at my place but the adjacent clover, alfalfa, rye and peas helped take a little pressure off and 200#'s of urea really boosted growth!

The rye I overseeded into the heavily grazed areas is doing well and will continue on long after the brassicas are history...

We just had 4 days of beautiful fall weather here in Iowa with temps around 70 and plenty of soil moisture so hopefully they held their own for a few days at least...

 

[SEIowaDeerslayer]

Grazing is starting to pick back up again on my brassicas...this as of 10-17

Still plenty of forage but while growth is still possible, the cooler temps will slow growth making it nearly impossible for them to keep up with grazing.

I was surprised to see some actually were able to make turnips this year!

Usually grazing is too intense to allow for much root growth at my place but the adjacent clover, alfalfa, rye and peas helped take a little pressure off and 200#'s of urea really boosted growth!

The rye I overseeded into the heavily grazed areas is doing well and will continue on long after the brassicas are history...

We just had 4 days of beautiful fall weather here in Iowa with temps around 70 and plenty of soil moisture so hopefully they held their own for a few days at least...

Looks like my brassica plot. My turnips that have survived the onslaught only were allowed to grow to about the size of a beer bottle cap. What a difference a year can make, last year they weren't even touched and I had some massive turnips!

 

[dbltree]

10-27-09 update on my brassicas...

Holding thier own but deer are starting to put the pressure on them now...

By no means gone yet but I suspect they will not last until December

The plants are still trying to re-grow when we have warm spells but growth is slower then grazing at this point...notice the winter rye around this plant.

Because I over seeded winter rye into any heavily, grazed brassicas the whole plot will not be for naught during the late seasons.

The rye is really taking off good now!:way:

Any soil has limitations and yields can be further limited by too little or too much rainfall but weather notwithstanding, forage yields can be dramatically affected by increasing soil nutrient levels.

Brassicas, like corn will produce far more if maximum NPK levels are applied. While 60-80#'s of actual N are the norm, pushing that towards a 100#'s of N will also further boost yields.

Soil tests will indicate how much P&K will be needed but it is rare to need less then 50#'s each just to sustain yields. PH will also affect brassica forage production and should not be ignored.

If deer aren't touching your brassicas then apply the minimum but if deer are foraging heavily on your brassicas then feed the brassicas accordingly.....

 

[dbltree]

Forage radishes are brassicas of course so it makes it a little confusing to say.."I planted forage radish with my brassicas"...better to say I planted radishes with my rape and turnips!

At any rate, the rut is heating up here in Iowa and I try to stay out of the plots this time of year. The July planted radishes got grazed right from the get go right along with the other brassicas which didn't suprise me because they ate them last year.

What has surprised me is that deer on my other farm that heretofor have never touched a leaf on any brassicas, are now mowing these Groundhog Forage radishes!

What does that say??

Are forage radishes more palatable and attractive then rape??

Is it just a fluke???

With standing corn, soybeans, alfalfa, clover, rye and peas literally feet away...I think not...

Deer tracks cover these late planted winter rye, pea and forage radish plots!

Obviously eating the rye and peas as well but absoutely no need to eat the radishes if they didn't care for them

These were all planted at 5#'s per acre with my winter rye/oats/forage pea/red clover mix roughly Sept 2nd so growth is not what it would be if planted in July.

Welter Seed carries the Groundhog radish for $2.65 a pound but you have to ask for them as they are not listed yet.

Welter Seed - brassica seed

Groundhog Foarge radishes are an improved tillage radish by AMPAC seed company and they have a dealer locater list that might help you locate a closer seed source then Welters.

Groundhog Forage Radish - AMPAC SEED

AMPAC carries many other great clover and brassica seeds that are sold thru distributers like Welters alover the country so check their site out for other food plot seeds at a reasonable price.

Remember if you decide to plant forage radish on their own, plant at 10#'s per acre, use 60-90#'s of actual nitrogen and sow in mid to late July in most midwest states...

 

[dbltree]

I planted the same Ground Hog Forage Radish on a friends farm, same time, with the same winter rye/oats/peas/clover mixture but there I was surprised to find the deer are eating the radish itself?

Tops like that are scattered everywhere and the roots have been eaten or gone altogether

Good stuff! All of the soil improving attributes and attractive to deer to boot!

 

[waylonb19]

I planted an acre of purple top turnips, dwarf essex rape, and bonar rape. The deer have not touched any of it really. I have heard some guys say they sometimes won't eat it because they aren't sure what it is. This field is surrounded by a huge soybean field which they cut a few weeks ago. I thought maybe they would start on the plot here soon but it doesn't look like it. Is there any chance they just might not eat it at all this yr? If they don't touch it this yr I assume they will never eat it so why bother planting this again next yr? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[SEIowaDeerslayer]

I planted an acre of purple top turnips, dwarf essex rape, and bonar rape. The deer have not touched any of it really. I have heard some guys say they sometimes won't eat it because they aren't sure what it is. This field is surrounded by a huge soybean field which they cut a few weeks ago. I thought maybe they would start on the plot here soon but it doesn't look like it. Is there any chance they just might not eat it at all this yr? If they don't touch it this yr I assume they will never eat it so why bother planting this again next yr? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks

They didn't touch mine last year, and that was the first year I planted them. This year my plot got decimated and I had to overseed with rye.

 

[dbltree]

They didn't touch mine last year, and that was the first year I planted them. This year my plot got decimated and I had to overseed with rye.

One farm they have not touched for 2 years but this year they are hammering the forage radishes. I would suggest giving those a try and mix in a few turnips until they start eating them.

Usually when the weather gets severe they will dig up the turnips so I wouldn't give up on them just yet.

What else did you plant besides brassicas?

 

[NWBuck]

This year was our first experiment with brassicas, and my son and I planted purple top turnips with Dwarf Essox Rape. The small plot has been getting pounded almost since it first came up. We took a few pictures from the blind last night.

This little guy wanted to ride home in the truck with us, but we weren't quite that hungry :grin:

Although most of the deer that came out last night spent some time in the turnips, they were all making their way to the corn. I dug up a couple of turnips last night, and despite having planted them a bit too late, they're about the size of a golf ball, so hopefully this will be a draw for them when the weather gets tough.

NWBuck