Clover

[Sligh1]

Dbltree will chime in. I'd FOR SURE incorporate Alice White. "IF" I could only do ONE clover- that would be it. But that's not the case SO make sure it's at least one component. You sound like you have an excellent mix!!!

White clovers DO NOT need to be seeded heavy- they are very aggressive and will fill an area easily if planted right. 2-4 pounds per acre (you could go a bit heavier if you think some might not make it). You could do a pound of each type of CLOVER in a mix also as an option (per acre- rates for other plants will be different than clover). I have seeded at 10-15 pounds per acre and it turned out STELLAR but that's wasting some $ and you'll end up with all white clover (which is not bad BUT it will out-compete your other stuff if seeded TOO HEAVY)- I would guess that's not needed though to seed at 10-15 lbs of clover for sure.
I would FOR SURE lime it now. If it were ME- I would wait to fertilize it LATER when the clover is established and out-competed weeds BUT that's me. Dbltree will give you better answers, good luck!!

*If it were ME- I'd seed 2 lbs of Alice, 1.5 lbs Durana, 5-8 lbs Berseem and then whatever the recommmended rate for Chicory is (I don't know that). At the end of the year you feel like you need MORE clover, you can frost seed as needed. You'll also be replacing Berseem the 2nd year as it's more of an annual and you CANNOT frost seed it if I am thinking right on that one.

 

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm planning a mix of Alice, Durana, Berseem clover and oasis chicory.

My question is at what rates should I mix these for a 1 acre plot?

I have already recieved my soil test results and I will have my lime down in about 2 weeks weather permitting.

Also, when I disc in the lime should I disc in my fertilzer at the same time?
</div></div>

Alice and Durana are two of the best drought resistant clovers one can buy. Durana being better in the south and Alice in the northern/midwestern states.

I have them both and so far Durana has performed well in our frigid weather right along side Alice. The only downside to Durana is that it runs roughly twice what Alice seed does.

I seed roughly 4 pounds of white clover per acre and 2-3 #'s of chicory and the white clover usally out competes the chicory.

Mixing the two clovers should be fine...I would just plant 2-3#'s each.

6-8#'s of berseem will give you some quick grazing while the white clover is becoming established but plan on clipping it frequently.

Berseem clover will die in the fall and the white clovers will take over the following spring.

Welters offers everything but Durana by the pound and I usually use Kopu II (a New Zealand bred clover) because it is half the price of Durana.

Alice White Clover

Kopu II White Clover

DURANA WHITE CLOVER

Oasis Forage Chicory

Berseem Clover

I like to plant my clovers with oats if I plant in the spring just to provide some quick spring grazing but that's an option.

You can spray Select/Arrow or Volunteer (all Clethodim herbicide) to control grasses if need be.

You can apply fertilizer along with lime this winter and then till/disc it in just before planting. You don't need nitrogen so the P&K can lay on the soil surface for now without losing it.

Our ground is frozen soild here so no discing going on around here, but if your able to stir the soil and incorporate the lime and fertilizer, that would be a real good thing.

No need to "bury" it deeply, just mixing it into the top few inches would be great!

Welcome to IW and holler back if you have more questions... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[TMHC]

Thanks...Y'all are fast and I'm amazed at the knowledge found here. I will disc in my fertilizer and lime at the same time.

Mix for my 1 acre:

Alice...3 lbs
Durana or Kopu II...3 lbs
Berseem...8 lbs
Oasis Chicory...3 lbs

If I can't find Durana in small quantities I will substitute it for Kopu II. Will Kopu II work as well down south (drought resistance)as the Durana? When I order these seeds do I also need to order an inoculant? The seed companies say these seeds are inoculated. Please tweak the mix as you see fit. Again...thanks for all your help.

 

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HogFan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks...Y'all are fast and I'm amazed at the knowledge found here. I will disc in my fertilizer and lime at the same time.

Mix for my 1 acre:

Alice...3 lbs
Durana or Kopu II...3 lbs
Berseem...8 lbs
Oasis Chicory...3 lbs

If I can't find Durana in small quantities I will substitute it for Kopu II. Will Kopu II work as well down south (drought resistance)as the Durana? When I order these seeds do I also need to order an inoculant? The seed companies say these seeds are inoculated. Please tweak the mix as you see fit. Again...thanks for all your help.

</div></div>

I always order fresh inoculate from Welters...it's only $4 or so and no inoculant will last for more then 6 months on seed, so why take a chance?

Just use a little water (very little) to dampen seed and stir in the fresh inoculant just before seeding.

KopuII should do very well for you unless you have some extremely poor soil and your mix looks perfect!

Deer have been digging for my Alice clover now that other food sources have "dried" up the end of January...

Kind of interesting...Alice White Clover on the left and a new Imperial Whtetail Clover seeding on the right...not touching the IWC... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Perhaps next year but so far deer have very clearly preferred my Alice White Clover plots over IWC, Biologic, Tecomate and a host of others...and for a fraction of the cost... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

 

[TMHC]

dbltree...always great talking with experts. This will not only be my first attempt at a spring food plot but first attempt at clover(Welters...here I come). These 15 pages on clover have given me a good base of info to get started. I will holler as questions arise and let you know how your expertise has payed off...hopefully with pictures. Thanks.

 

[Sligh1]

Dbltree, there's no way the deer prefer the Alice White over IWC because the Alice white does NOT have a picture of a deer on the bag AND the IWC costs much more SO you just must be mistaken!! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Kidding, Alice White is the bomb!!!

Now, I am getting a little bored, was thinking of going out to a patch and frost seeding some tomorrow- no snow on it. Do you think it's too early or would I be ok????

 

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now, I am getting a little bored, was thinking of going out to a patch and frost seeding some tomorrow- no snow on it. Do you think it's too early or would I be ok???? </div></div>

It's plenty early, I hate to see clover seed lay out there for two months before warm weather but since your bored... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

let us know how that patch does Skip /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

 

[TMHC]

What hand seeder do y'all use to control the rate for clover seeds? Do you mix any sand with the clover seed?

After inoculating the clover seed does is need to dry before spreading?

 

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HogFan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What hand seeder do y'all use to control the rate for clover seeds? Do you mix any sand with the clover seed?

After inoculating the clover seed does is need to dry before spreading? </div></div>

No sand needed but just close the hand seeder down to the smallest setting. I go over it one way and then go back over it cross to the first path so I don't miss any place.

You just barely dampen the seed enough to get the inoculant to stick so the dry seed will soak up the water in seconds and the seed will not be wet and will spread easily.

Check back to the begining of this thread and you can see pics of mixing it.

Here's the little hand seeder I use....

 

[TMHC]

Thanks again dbltree

 

[wibohnt]

Dbltree-
I see your preference is not to let the clover seed sit too long before warm weather when frost seeding. What would be your suggested date be for SE Iowa?

 

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wibohnt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dbltree-
I see your preference is not to let the clover seed sit too long before warm weather when frost seeding. What would be your suggested date be for SE Iowa? </div></div>

I prefer late Febuary to early March...but sometimes even the very end of March is fine. Hard to predict the weather, but ideally as week or so of freezing/thawing time would be ideal, just ahead of spring warm up.

Remember that even heavy rains will help clover seed make soil contact so freezing/thawing is not absoultely neccessary as it is for switchgrass. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[TMHC]

Dbltree...I've seen enough discussion here and from other sources advising against planting clover in the spring to have changed my mind to wait until fall. I would hate to plant a clover plot and not have it make it through a dry hot summer. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have never planted for a summer plot. It will be May until I can plant. Would oats be a good idea for here in Arkansas to help suppress weeds and allow for a good plow down in Sept? Any other suggestions you have would be valuable to me. Still looking forward to one day having a clover plot.

 

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have never planted for a summer plot. It will be May until I can plant. Would oats be a good idea for here in Arkansas to help suppress weeds and allow for a good plow down in Sept? </div></div>

A "summer" plot in your area I'm guessing would be perhaps late August. Here in SE Iowa late July thru mid August works well.

Summer seedings just help you avoid the weed problems associated with spring seedings. I plant clover up until the first part of Sepember here with pretty good results.

Buckwheat, oats and berseem clover all make good "cover crops" ahead of a summer seeding. Buckwheat works well ahead of clover because the fact that it does not fix any nitrogen is irrevelant whereas ahead of cereal grains or brassicas, berseem clover is better.

Oats work well also and if you time it right, you can let them head out, till them under and have a fall oat plot to go with your new clover seeding.

Look back at my pics in this thread from last summer including the brassica and field pea threads. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[Iowabowtech]

Well, I frost seeded a secluded plot today along with some P&K. Rye shoots were coming up under the leaves all over along with some clover I added to the mix late summer of last year. Hopefully the rains of this weekend won't wash it all away, it's on slight downhill grade. Should have taken the cam, that rye looked great already but I didn't figure it'd have been up yet. I think the insulation of the leaf cover helped it along.

 

[risto2351]

Did some frost seeding this past Saturday of clover into some existing plots.

I opted to go with straight Alice clover to
see how good this seed is I hear so much about. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

My rye plots are starting to wake up and went fine.

When I got to my brassicas plot it was another story.

They finally found it but some work had to be done.

After a little raking and cleaning I got the plot to look like this.

Also had a visitor checking on my progress. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

The other plot was just as bad but with leaves.

Looked pretty good after I had it all cleaned up. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

Now the waiting game.

 

[Crimson Arrows]

Looks good risto! So, I also frost seeded about 10 days ago but had established clover plots that just needed to be thickened up. In any case, I am curious what these severe rain storms will do to my plots?

I have no standing water but the AMOUNT of rain was crazy. Anybody have any experience with frost seeding and then having TOO much rain? Luckily my plots are not on slopes where seed could wash away or near creek that would flood.

Also, as risto raked a bit, I on the other hand just frost seeded over a couple plots with alot of leaves on it. I figured they would work there way down being as small as they are?

 

[risto2351]

Huntyak,

Thank you,

Unless it is a torrential rain I would not worry about it.
I knew the rain was coming but that little seed will get bedded in the dirt pretty easily. IMO

I also was going to go over some leaves thinking they would work their way in. I had an hour to kill and needed the exercise so I decided to do the raking to remove all doubt.

Good luck with your plots as well.

 

[Crimson Arrows]

Thanks risto...unfortunately they were TORRENTIAL but you can't control mother nature. I'll post some pics in April.....goods luck with your plots as well.

 

[dbltree]

Plot's look good Tony! Keep us posted with progress pics this year but that looks like a perfect soil surface for frost seeding.

I frost seeded some clover into some dead oat mulch...

and into some winter rye

Here's some baby clover planted with oats last fall...the dead oat mulch makes a perfect place for the tiny clover to spend the winter...

Lots of options for foodplotters when it comes to clover... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif