Buck Hollow Sporting Goods - click or touch to visit their website Midwest Habitat Company

dog....

R

Renobber

Guest
I know this has nothing to do with deer at all but it isn't deer season, so I was wondering if someone could help me out. I have a 4 year old weimeraner who retrieves excellent if it is a rooster, she doesn't chew on it or anything, but if I get into a covey of quail and she retreives it she trys to eat it and chews on it. I don't know why she doesn't do it with a rooster. So if any of you know a thing or two about training dogs or anything I could use some help. I would shock her but I am afraid that if I do she will think that she isn't suppose to retrieve the bird. I don't know what to do cuz I sure as heck am not gonna not shoot quail I love hunting them. so if anyone has any advice let me know thanks

Tyson
 
get a retrieving dummy the size of a quail and put some nails through it pointy side sticking out. If you have some quail wings rubber band them on so she knows the scent. A few hard mouths on this and she'll learn only to soft mouth a bird.
 
I was thinking about doing that but I was afraid she would be afraid to pick up a bird if she gets poked in the mouth too many times, i dunno I gotta try something I can't have her chewin them up, I think the reason she does it is becuz she used to chase the sparrows inside of our screened in porch and would catch them, I didn't let her eat them, if I seen her doing it, but I think she thinks thats what they are, I don't know tho I might have to try doing that just a little cautious cuz she retreives roosters excellent, thanks for the advice tho, do you know any other techniques?
Thanks
Tyson
 
I don't know what others will advise, but I would get some frozen birds and work on a hold drill. Make the dog sit or whoa and then make her take the frozen bird in her mouth and hold it there. You may need to force her to take it a first by forcing her mouth open by gently pushing you fingers between her gums behind the teeth. Once she has the bird make her hold it by holding up on her lower jaw. Just keep repeating this until she will hold it on her own, and then start to walk her arround at heel with the bird. Go slowly but be firm about it and progress through unfrozen birds to fresh birds and never allow her to chew or mouth the birds. If she does punish her on the spot and start over at one level back and work back up to the level where she did wrong. I would guess that your dog was never really trained to retrive and just picked up on it naturaly. Probably the reason she chews the quail is the difference in size of the birds. It is much harder to get a good grip on a pheasant and the quail is just a mouthful. If you use a shock collar for the punisment it would be best if you had one with a warning tone or buzz before the shock, and use it on the lowest effective level. Also make sure she understands what you want way before you ever use the shock. You must teach her what to do first and only then use the collar to reinforce the leasons at a distance where you can't physically reach or touch her. This should not be a big problem but will require some time and you have lots of time before next season.
 
If you're worried about her getting poked to hard file down the tips of the nail so they are dull to the touch. She'll bite down on the dummy and it will still give her the sensation but it won't draw blood. A dogs mouth is a lot tougher than you think, look at the way they go through bones without any negative side effects.
 
nah I never had her trained at training, I just took her out with a dummy alot the first 2 years I had her and there wasn't but probably 10 birds in the whole state of iowa that bad year we got all of the snow and ice. I used the same dummy and just worked on her bringing it back never did try different sizes or anything. she isn't professionally trained or anything, don't have the money to do that, so she doesn't really no the whoas, and the heals, and the stays, but she listens great just doesn't have the obeidence as the pro. trained dogs. I was thinking about getting some quail or chukar or something this spring/summer and trying it. I have used apples too just in the yard from the tree and they are smaller and she doesn't bite down on them either, I don't know if it is cuz the quail have feathers or what, I dunno if that would work with her cuz she doesn't have te obeidence as most dogs but it might work I will just have to try diffferent things till next fall.

That is a good point bout the bones and all of that. Is there anyway you can make it so that the nails don't fall out? thanks for the advice

Tyson
 
I sliced open a tennis ball enough to allow me to push thumbtacks from the inside out. Then I put in a pheasant scent wafer (you can find some quail scent). We played fetch with this and the dog never had a hard mouth. Not sure how it would work for a dog that already has hard mouth tendencies. My friends family has had Weimraners going on 30+ years and they can be hard headed. I hope you can get this corrected.
 
Do yourself and your dog a huge favor and get a book or video on training. You don't have to be a pro but if you teach basic yard work commands like whoa, stay, heel, and come you and the dog will enjoy life together much more and be much safer hunting. None of the commands are hard to teach, they just require repatition almost daily for a while. Once you both have mastered this you can move on to things like force breaking to reterive and steadyness. You will find that you really like the training and the dog will love the attention and time spent together. I know that the suggestions about nails and tacks aren't really meant to hurt the dog, but I know that better results can be had with patience. It doesn't sound like you dog really is hard mouthed or it would really chew up the pheasants, because they are bigger and there for harder to get a good grip on. She just doesn't know that se should not kill the quail like she does with the smaller birds. My old Brittany will sometimes catch gold finches arround the bird feeders and carry them arround in his mouth alive. Several times he almost made it into the house with one because you can't see them in his mouth.
 
Well that made it sound like my dog doesn't listen at all lol the way i put it, she listens very well I just never put the time into teaching her heal, stay, or whatever, she doesn't run off or anything doesn't chase birds deer rabbits or anything, and if we are walking back on the road I will let her hunt the ditches till I see a car coming and I will say her name and she comes back to my side, if I were to use her in field trials or anything then I would spend more time with it, I am going to buy a whoa collar for sure tho I do want to teach her tho, but thats bout the only thing, Is it harder to teach an older dog something? or is it still like when they are a puppy and do it repeditive?

I would have to agree with them somewhat about being hardheaded, I also think that it takes them longer than say a shorthair to figure things out, but I am no dog trainer at all lol.

Mchunter, I had that book but i never read very much of it wish I would of but I hate to read maybe I should of read it for an english project or somethin lol.

Thanks for the help, she is a good dog other than the fact with the whole quail thing.

I have another question since we are on dogs, I have a 2 year old lab who is gun shy does anyone know how to break them of that? I have tried taking her out letting her smell the gun, starting with just a simple pellet gun, and going to a .22 and working my way up to a 12 gauge. I have petted her, threw a dummy out and had someone else fire the gun but she just hunkers down and gets very scared. Ive also tried shooting around her with my other dog out trying to get her to see that it is fine but she still gets very scared and I try to talk to her and encourage her the whole time but I have a feeling she is just gonna be a yard crapper.

Tyson
 
Renobber,

Bowmaker has it nailed. You need to force break your dog to fetch. It is not a terribly tough thing to do. It does take time though. I have had it take anywhere from 2 weeks for my old male vizsla to 3 1/2 weeks for my 3 year old lab when I trained him and 4 weeks for a year old vizsla pup I trained this fall that a guy bought from me. Richard Wolter's "GUN DOG" is the best training book I have ever read and it has how to force fetch a dog in it. Just remember you can ruin a dog a lot quicker than it takes to make a great dog. I think you will be ok, if you are willing to work with the dog and it sounds like you are. There is nothing better than a good hunting dog.

GUNDOG
 
what does "Force Break her to fetch" I am confused on what you mean by that
 
Try to find a copy of "The Training and Care of the Versatile Hunting Dog" by Sigbot Winterhelt. It goes through all? aspects of training. Sigbot is or has been the president of the North Amercian Versatile Hunting Dog Association.
 
It is tricky to explain but basically you have them on a bench so they are at your level. They are tied to a wire so they can go up and down the bench. You can do several different ways. You can use a loop around there ankle and one of their toes or you can use your thumb and pinch the end of their ear between that and the collar. Tell her to fetch as you hold the dummy or bird or whatever you use and if she refuses put pressure on the ear or toe until she opens her mouth. THen stick the dummy in her mouth and release the pressure. Tell her to hold, if she drops it start over. If she starts to chew on the bird or dummy tap her under the chin and reinforce the command hold. By a few days to a week you should be able to grab a dummy and she will be trying to take it out of your hand before you say fetch. As you progress you should be able to get to pick the dummy up off of the bench and walk up and down it. Then you can take her to the ground and try it. Remember dogs have bad days as well as us so if she fights it hard for a couple of times put her away and try later on or the next day. If you would like you can pm me and I can give you my number if you would like to talk about it. It is really not that hard. Good Luck
 
Single Coyote,
You seen me on opening day..did the first timer with that group shoot all the birds that day? and to think that when ross told me you guys would come home every year with 2 or 3, I just thought you guys didn't see many, boy was I wrong, you boys just couldn't shoot lol. You guys got rid of them mstm boys and brought in me wade n belle...seems to me we must of shot somethin...by the way i did shoot 2 quail that day and who knows how many roosters....do I miss?
 
Hopefully you only shot 3 roosters renobber!
grin.gif
 
I shot 3 and then some lol I had to shoot their limits too lol
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom