jnicholson
New Member
100 gains 777 t/c shockwave 250gr. Same as several others, shoots great from my Encore.
Handcannon
Well-Known Member
70 grns of T7, Knight sabot, .44 cal 300grn Hornady XTP. Shot a deer last year at 110yds - went in & out no problem.
nannyslayer
New Member
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CamoMan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting - I haven't seen anyone mention the American Pioneer powder. I shoot the Jim Shockey Gold powder,(loose, not the sticks) and really like it. It cleans up even easier than the 777 does. Any of you guys using this ? </div></div>
My dad has been using it, and he really likes it. Very clean.
My dad has been using it, and he really likes it. Very clean.
JNRBRONC
Well-Known Member
I have never used Shockey's Gold, but I have read a couple places on the internet about it's affinity for moisture. Black Powder Substitute Review
SHOCKEY'S GOLD
Going back a bit, "Clean Shot Technologies" had their stuff on the market for a while. It gained a reputation as an aggressive moisture-sucker with fairly low velocities, but had a bit of a following in low-humidity areas for a time. Clean Shot Technologies made the mistake of infringing on Hodgdon's pellet patent. Hodgdon complained about the theft of their intellectual property, the courts agreed, and Clean Shot was no more. It is fair to say that Clean Shot was a fairly peculiar company, with sales offices in Florida, and leased production equipment in Colorado. Hodgdon had to find that out the hard way. Clean Shot had very little in the way of tangible assets. Re-organized under the name "American Pioneer," CST has gained a very poor reputation in the industry, but for better or worse, they are back.
The results with Shockey's Gold were poor. Though American Pioneer claims a lot of things, including that Shockey's Gold is a "premium grade version" of American Pioneer, the only thing tangible that I have been able to detect is the different label on the bottle. The Shockey's Gold sticks are still clumsily packaged in a bottle with plastic beads, and are irregular in size and shape. I've had bags of charcoal briquettes with better quality control. Some of the sticks shaved off parts of themselves going down the muzzle of the Encore, some didn't. A casual look at them shows how crudely made they are, with chips, cracks, and other very rough surface irregularities. This is cobby stuff, to be sure.
As for performance with my Pro-Hunter, it was decidedly inconsistent. With the 250 grain Hornady XTP and MMP 3 Petal EZ sabot, a typical three shot string was 1695 fps, 1773 fps, and then 1598 fps through the CED Millennium. This is the same type of low velocity and wild shot to shot deviation I saw with American Pioneer tested last year in a different Encore and a Knight Disc Elite using 300 grain lead saboted bullets, among others.
Jim Shockey and I have talked about this stuff a bit, and I don't doubt for a Mexican minute that this is the stuff he hunts with. At the typically close ranges Jim hunts at, inconsistent velocities at the muzzle, even as bad as this stuff is, is unlikely to change the outcome. Those with nothing better to do can attempt to make out of this anything they want. But I happen to like Jim Shockey; folks will just have to get over it. Jim doesn't make this stuff, has no hand in the quality control, and doesn't bother with chronographs. I could no more complain to Jim Shockey than I would send hate-mail to Irlene Mandrell if I got a bad CZ.
Like APP and Pinnacle, if used sans lube, it is clean. There was a small amount of crud that formed at the end of the T/C QLA, and some minor amount of crud near the breechplug. It is easy enough to push through, and from shot to shot no swabbing was ever used, or is necessary.
As final, vivid testimony to the moisture attracting propensity of Shockey's Gold, the gravelly mis-named "FFg" loose powder and the "FFFg" loose powder are packed with desiccant packets, if that tells you anything. Due to the low, extremely inconsistent velocities and obviously deficient quality control, I would not bother to hunt with this stuff.
SHOCKEY'S GOLD
Going back a bit, "Clean Shot Technologies" had their stuff on the market for a while. It gained a reputation as an aggressive moisture-sucker with fairly low velocities, but had a bit of a following in low-humidity areas for a time. Clean Shot Technologies made the mistake of infringing on Hodgdon's pellet patent. Hodgdon complained about the theft of their intellectual property, the courts agreed, and Clean Shot was no more. It is fair to say that Clean Shot was a fairly peculiar company, with sales offices in Florida, and leased production equipment in Colorado. Hodgdon had to find that out the hard way. Clean Shot had very little in the way of tangible assets. Re-organized under the name "American Pioneer," CST has gained a very poor reputation in the industry, but for better or worse, they are back.
The results with Shockey's Gold were poor. Though American Pioneer claims a lot of things, including that Shockey's Gold is a "premium grade version" of American Pioneer, the only thing tangible that I have been able to detect is the different label on the bottle. The Shockey's Gold sticks are still clumsily packaged in a bottle with plastic beads, and are irregular in size and shape. I've had bags of charcoal briquettes with better quality control. Some of the sticks shaved off parts of themselves going down the muzzle of the Encore, some didn't. A casual look at them shows how crudely made they are, with chips, cracks, and other very rough surface irregularities. This is cobby stuff, to be sure.
As for performance with my Pro-Hunter, it was decidedly inconsistent. With the 250 grain Hornady XTP and MMP 3 Petal EZ sabot, a typical three shot string was 1695 fps, 1773 fps, and then 1598 fps through the CED Millennium. This is the same type of low velocity and wild shot to shot deviation I saw with American Pioneer tested last year in a different Encore and a Knight Disc Elite using 300 grain lead saboted bullets, among others.
Jim Shockey and I have talked about this stuff a bit, and I don't doubt for a Mexican minute that this is the stuff he hunts with. At the typically close ranges Jim hunts at, inconsistent velocities at the muzzle, even as bad as this stuff is, is unlikely to change the outcome. Those with nothing better to do can attempt to make out of this anything they want. But I happen to like Jim Shockey; folks will just have to get over it. Jim doesn't make this stuff, has no hand in the quality control, and doesn't bother with chronographs. I could no more complain to Jim Shockey than I would send hate-mail to Irlene Mandrell if I got a bad CZ.
Like APP and Pinnacle, if used sans lube, it is clean. There was a small amount of crud that formed at the end of the T/C QLA, and some minor amount of crud near the breechplug. It is easy enough to push through, and from shot to shot no swabbing was ever used, or is necessary.
As final, vivid testimony to the moisture attracting propensity of Shockey's Gold, the gravelly mis-named "FFg" loose powder and the "FFFg" loose powder are packed with desiccant packets, if that tells you anything. Due to the low, extremely inconsistent velocities and obviously deficient quality control, I would not bother to hunt with this stuff.
JNRBRONC
Well-Known Member
If memory serves me (and memory ain't what it used to be), APP Shockey's gold is gluconic(sp) acid. Those who know chemistry say that this is a sugar. If that is the case, I'm not surprised that it likes water.
Then, the variance in velocity, which can't be good for long range accuracy, has been attributed to the uneven particle size of the powder. This uneven particle size makes it very difficult to accurately measure it by volume. Weighing out the powder should help in this regard.
I tend to be pretty stubborn when something is working for me, so I would more than likely stick with this product if I never had a bad experience with it. I still have a half full one pound container of Pyrodex RS that I purchased in 1989. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
Then, the variance in velocity, which can't be good for long range accuracy, has been attributed to the uneven particle size of the powder. This uneven particle size makes it very difficult to accurately measure it by volume. Weighing out the powder should help in this regard.
I tend to be pretty stubborn when something is working for me, so I would more than likely stick with this product if I never had a bad experience with it. I still have a half full one pound container of Pyrodex RS that I purchased in 1989. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
G6
Active Member
I like Jim Shockey but his powder sucks (moisture that is) /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif I couldn't get it to ignite in my old BK92 with the caps and that gun never misfires. I'm like you I don't like to change when something works for me. Once my gun doesn't fire or I miss a big buck because of a hangfire then my gun will be replaced and have been. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
CamoMan
New Member
I'm not a marksman . . . but I am a thinker. And, I thought about that a bit more, and decided to go ahead and switch back to 777. I'll have time to get dialed in before this weekend. In looking back, I have had a couple occasions this year in damp weather where we seemed to have problems. So, if anyone needs a sweet deal on some Jim Shockey powder, let me know.
deerslayerhb
New Member
it depends out of my 62 i shoot 350 grains with a 460 grain ball-butout of my 50 i shoot 100 grains with a 300 or so grain hornady sst.i could go on and on because i shoot multiple smokepoles but tis should b good
Shovelbuck
Active Member
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">out of my 62 i shoot 350 grains with a 460 grain ball </div></div>
If your going to throw out numbers like that, you should make certain that nobody has a clue as to how to load a muzzleloader. That won't happen with the fine people here.
For your information, a .62 roundball weighs 342 grains and the largest Hornady SST is 300 grains. Not 300 or so.
If your going to throw out numbers like that, you should make certain that nobody has a clue as to how to load a muzzleloader. That won't happen with the fine people here.
For your information, a .62 roundball weighs 342 grains and the largest Hornady SST is 300 grains. Not 300 or so.
deerslayerhb
New Member
actualy they make 460 grain round balls at monco corporation-well they used to and thats what i used before but
i started casting my own-all i do is put a steel coating around the lead and trim it down to .62 caliber diameter then repete if needed to get them to 460 grain-i like the extra oommpphh
i started casting my own-all i do is put a steel coating around the lead and trim it down to .62 caliber diameter then repete if needed to get them to 460 grain-i like the extra oommpphh
Thats funny, I shoot a .610 roundball, and they weigh (with pure lead) 342 grains. Putting a sttel coating on them, would A. be a really neat trick, B, would do nothing for weight as lead is far heavier than steel. and since the melting point of steel is far greater than lead.
SInce lead is about as dense as it comes at about 703# per cubic ft. I doubrt anyone espcially a home user could add over 100gr to the same diameter roundball, that manu. cannot unless you have some depleted uranium tha the govt doesnt know about. I would really be curious as to how you do this at home. I have a minor in Metallurgy but maybe you could teach me a thing or 2. Flea
SInce lead is about as dense as it comes at about 703# per cubic ft. I doubrt anyone espcially a home user could add over 100gr to the same diameter roundball, that manu. cannot unless you have some depleted uranium tha the govt doesnt know about. I would really be curious as to how you do this at home. I have a minor in Metallurgy but maybe you could teach me a thing or 2. Flea
moosehunter
PMA Member
Some more personal info on American Pioneer powder.
I switched last year and killed a deer early ML and a couple does late. All were close shots and seemed OK.
This year I missed twice early ML. Once at 70 yards or so and the other at 85. Not to be bragging but I concider myself to be a pretty decent shot with a ML or rifle so I rechecked both guns and they both shot 2 inches high at 50 yards so I chalked it up as buck fever.
Last week I shot and killed a doe at 80 yards but the shot was alot higher than where I settled the crosshairs. Then Friday I took a 110 yard shot at a doe with a different gun and cleanly missed. The gun had a slight hang fire which has NEVER happened with my Knights. Plus the big thunder bang of a ML was missing. Then late yesterday the same thing happened. I missed and it didn't sound right. I'm ditching the AP and going back to 777. I don't care what Shocky says.
I switched last year and killed a deer early ML and a couple does late. All were close shots and seemed OK.
This year I missed twice early ML. Once at 70 yards or so and the other at 85. Not to be bragging but I concider myself to be a pretty decent shot with a ML or rifle so I rechecked both guns and they both shot 2 inches high at 50 yards so I chalked it up as buck fever.
Last week I shot and killed a doe at 80 yards but the shot was alot higher than where I settled the crosshairs. Then Friday I took a 110 yard shot at a doe with a different gun and cleanly missed. The gun had a slight hang fire which has NEVER happened with my Knights. Plus the big thunder bang of a ML was missing. Then late yesterday the same thing happened. I missed and it didn't sound right. I'm ditching the AP and going back to 777. I don't care what Shocky says.