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Food Plots for Newbie

jkratz5

jkratz5

Well-Known Member
Hey Fellas,

I was looking for a little input from some of the guys on here since I know alot of you have been working with Food Plots for years and years and produce beautiful plots for all seasons.

Our farm is 440 acres or so and is a good mix of tillable, CRP, and timber. Of the 440, approx. 110 acres is timber, and the other 330 is considered tillable. Of the 330, 60 acres is enrolled in CRP and currently the state of IL will pay for 10% of the CRP ground to be planted with plots. 3 years ago we took advantage of this and planted our first plots. We choose 2 different plot sites and a total of about 4 acres, one 3 acre plot and one 1 acre plot. At the time we planted a Biologic Perennial blend (premium perennial I believe). It was great the first year, the plots turned out beautiful and the deer took to them great. However, we were very disappointed to see the plot barely return the next year.

I guess my question is this. We are located in West Central IL (basically the exact same climate as Central and south central IA). We are looking to establish a 2-3 perennial plots, 1-3 acres each, and mix in an annual once the perennial is established. Any advice on what to plant that would be a good source of both early fall and late winter food source. The area that the plot would go in I would classify as semi shaded (due to a draw that runs right along the CRP ground). This area has been plotted once before and like I said the plots were great for 1 year.

Additionally, we have Plenty of Corn and Soybeans every year from our crops (approximately 110 acres of each with great yields, yet there always seems to be plenty left in the field)

Not sure if my question is to broad or my information is lacking but please feel free to hit me with questions, comments, etc and I can provide additional information. I appreciate any help and input you can give.

Thanks

Kratz
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We are looking to establish a 2-3 perennial plots, 1-3 acres each, and mix in an annual once the perennial is established. Any advice on what to plant that would be a good source of both early fall and late winter food source. The area that the plot would go in I would classify as semi shaded </div></div>

This would have an easy answer except for the last part..."late winter".....

Clover is of course the most common and easily established food plot however in most cases it is a very poor source in late winter.

I have had the best luck with Alice White Clover or a mix of clovers from Welters Seed - Clover seed

If you do your part with soil tests and proper planting, Alice will easily last 3-5 years but no clover is going to make a great late season draw (not to say they won't pick around it if nothing else is available, but....)

If you add a late season draw of brassicas and or cereal grains such as rye along with your clover plots then your going to end up a little closer to what your looking for.

As I've mentioned before, stagger your clover plantings over a period of years and rotate them to brassicas or grains when they start to thin out.

Alfalfa is a great all season draw but difficult to manage in small plots and you already have plenty of corn and soys, so a combo of clover, brassicas and rye, oats and austrian winter peas would be my choices. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
Not sure why that only lasted a year- what came back the next year?

Early and late plots, I usually think annuals like rye or winter wheat. Clover is great but gets pounded so bad early that nothing is left at my place by December/January seasons.
 
Guys thanks for the input so far. Like I said I am really new at this and what we tried before was beautiful it just didn't last. Sounds like a combo of clover, rye, brassicas may be the way to go. I will keep doing my research, I think I have tons and tons to learn but hey something to keep me busy in the offseason.

Pharmer, I honestly can't say what was in the mix we planted (I know it had brassicas and turnips (not sure what kind) as well as 2 other perennials and a little of everything came back I believe the next year it was just really really really thin. 3rd year there wasn't a lick of anything left. Again I appreciate the input and am open to more.

Kratz
 
I would plant half clover and the other half with some kind of oats, rye, or turnips with brassica.

I plant mine 50-50 along side each other. When they quit hitting the clover they walk 10 steps and hit the turnips and brassica. Keeps them there all season.

Good luck with your decisions.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jkratz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I honestly can't say what was in the mix we planted (I know it had brassicas and turnips (not sure what kind) as well as 2 other perennials and a little of everything came back I believe the next year it was just really really really thin. 3rd year there wasn't a lick of anything left. Again I appreciate the input and am open to more.

Kratz </div></div>

This is just a good example of why I really don't like using the "fancy seed" whichI feel is marketed in a somewhat deceptive manner. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Biologic Perennial Blend does have brassicas in it which of course are annuals...so what are the perennials? Why mix them? They don't mix well as can be seen by what happened in Jarin'scase.

The contents are listed on the bag but most don't read it or understand the implications but just pay a premimum price for a seed combo that's not going to give them the results they had hoped for let alone paid for.

There is always this thing that "if we throw a bunch of seed in a fancy package" hunters will snap it up! Marketing genius for sure! Soooo... perennial turns out to be not so perennial... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

Know exactly what you are planting and why. Clover and brassicas are a very poor mix IMO. Clover is best managed by itself although it can be started with cover crops.

Brassicas IMO work best by themselves although depending on seeding rate, cereal grains can be mixed. Brassicas should be planted in late July/early August, oats in late August to early Sept., rye in early Sept. so throwing all the seed in a bag and planting it all at once isn't the greatest idea.

In Jarin's case he has a number of small plots that each can grow something different that in combination will provide season long growth/draw and be better managed.

After one becomes adept at planting individual types/species of plots then have a little fun playing around with different combos... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

All of this is why I prefer to order individual seed varieties from a company like Welters. I know exactly what I am getting and planting...
 
Dunno what the deal is Kratz, those were pretty sweet weed plots when I saw them. Great sparrow habitat.
 
The premium blends usually add a clover or chicory to thier brassicas to allow the deer to have something to eat and get accustom to until a hard frost makes the brassica portion more palletable. Biologic and Tecomate list these products as Annuals, so there really is no deception there. Just read the label.

As for your plots, I think your on the right course. I'm a big fan of mixing your clovers with a chicory. The deer seem to really hit these hard. For your bigger plots, what you could do is plant the majority with a chicory/clover mix in the spring and put a brassica mix around the perimeter in Aug. That gives you a 3-5 yr perennial, you just have to mow a few times a year and you could rotate your perimeter with a Triticale or some other grain every other year.

This would allow them to get established with the plot year around and your perimeter would allow you late season production.
 
As Dbltree said mixing brassicas and clover is not always the best idea if you have to mow. However, I planted a mix on my first foodplot ever several years ago. It was a poor plot and didnt grow well, plus I didnt get it planted at the optimal time. It was mainly clovers and turnips. The clover came up ok and the turnips came in pretty thin. I never mowed it becuase the deer kept it trimmed the first year. By the time we were having steady nights of 40 and below lows temps, the deer were off the clover and pounding the turnips. Ever since then, my first year clover plantings I have added turnips into a portion of the plot along with clover. I never seem to get a great first year clover crop so the turnips add a little something, and they are gone by the second year.

Just my .02 worth.

Dean
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: midwestfoodplots</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The premium blends usually add a clover or chicory to thier brassicas to allow the deer to have something to eat and get accustom to until a hard frost makes the brassica portion more palletable. Biologic and Tecomate list these products as Annuals, so there really is no deception there. Just read the label.

</div></div>

I'm sorry but when a bag says Biologic Perennial Blend...I would tend to think it contained all perennial's /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

The avereage hunter doesn't know one type of seed from another so while they should read the label, that dosen't mean they will or if they do, that they will understand what they are planting or if they are compatiable.

This of course is why they end up with poor results such as Jarin ran into.

When I pick up a loaf of bread that says made with "whole wheat flour" I'm thinking..ok...whole wheat bread but it actually means 75% white flour and 25% whole wheat flour...IMO, very deceptive but of course not illegal. Food plot seed is no different... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

Both Biologic and Tecomate sell clover/chicory seed blends and anyonewho is interested can see exactly what is in these blends in this portion of the Clover thread.

They both contain other annual clovers such as red clover and berseem, cheap clovers that you pay a premium for and the very reason I prefer to mix my own. One can also see that Alice and Durana clovers out performed other clover mixes under difficult conditions which of course is the type of condidtions many food plotters run into.

No matter what anyone plants I would encourage you to read the labels and if unsure...ask here on this forum.

As for adding brassicas to clover, I would rather see you add rapes versus turnips and go light with the seed. If turnips develop a root then deer may root them up like hogs and tear up an otherwise great clover plot.

No matter if you spring or fall seed a clover/chicory mix, seeding with oats will make a less expensive/better food source for deer while the clover is getting establised. In a fall seeding rye or rye/oats will do the trick.

Find pictures and info on all types of clover seeding combos in the clover thread /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
Paul, again I appreciate your input, I am learning alot from the 9 posts here and the links you added. When going into the biologic plot a few years back I knew that there was at least 1 annual in the bag that I was going to have to replant if I liked it, but I didn't plan on the whole plot going to the pot after a year. One thing you mentioned that might have killed us is the turnip point, the deer absolutely pounded them and dug up the roots and everything and this may have been detremental to our plot, something I will keep in mind for the future and maybe plant them on their own little plot. I definitely won't be going with the biologic again after reading these posts, I wish I had more knowledge of food plots 3 years back when we first started putting them in, might have saved me from having to completely replant the 5 acres this year. Thanks again

Jarin
 
Alright, I won't jump to far out in front of the bus for Biologic, since I don't rep for them, but the Tecomate bags are very specific of Annual and Perennial and it's in bold on the front of the bag.

Dbltree I have read many of your post and have a good deal of respect for you so I don't want this to get into a tug a war match. You are able to go out and plant specific clovers because you are very knowledgable, but I think you could better phrase the quality of premium blends. You've mistaken quality for concept. The annual clovers are added because they mature quicker with the hopes the deer will focus on those while the perennial clovers establish. We don't just throw them in to take up space.

In most cases those that are just starting out don't even know the differnce between Alice and Durana. There is absolutely nothing wrong with them starting out with a bag of Tecomate to build their knowledge base. It is a quality product, I have many acres planted in it that do very well with a high nutritional balance. As a person matures their knowledge base they will want to get more specific in what they plant and I to would highly recommend Welters, I use them myself.

My point is to give this gentleman the best advice we can, but I don't think discrediting some of the companies out their like Tecomate need to be the approach.
 
Biologic, Tecomate, and others have supporters on these types of sites and are afforded quite a bit of free publicity and testimonials by professionals, experts, and "mine is better than yours" types. I have used both- sometimes it is handy to buy a small quantity of seed in a fancy bag. I won a couple bags a year ago. I don't think that stating the obvious is tearing down the big names- they need to take the good with the bad if they are going to be mentioned in these posts.
 
The brand name seeds get all kinds of publicity and make great claims. I think getting real world info provided here is refreshing and keeps expectations realistic. I certainly hope db keeps right on posting as I know far more from reading here than I ever will gain from most commercial seed sights.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: midwestfoodplots</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

In most cases those that are just starting out don't even know the differnce between Alice and Durana. There is absolutely nothing wrong with them starting out with a bag of Tecomate to build their knowledge base. It is a quality product, I have many acres planted in it that do very well with a high nutritional balance. As a person matures their knowledge base they will want to get more specific in what they plant and I to would highly recommend Welters, I use them myself.

</div></div>

Or...you can mature your knowledge base by asking experts ahead of time and shortcut your way to a proven combination for much less $$ right off the bat. There'll still be plenty of people who use, and I'm sure have great success with the premium blends because the majority isn't going to search out more in depth answers like can be found here from guys that are willing to share years of knowledge and experience. I'm a plot newb myself and have been spending a good deal of time in this forum and others lately for that very reason.
 
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