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Maggs

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I've seen alot of posts bashing party hunting and group pushes. I'm not one to stir things up but I'd like to hear how everyone would control the deer herd if party hunting was outlawed? I know in my area alot,(most?, many?) of the shotgun hunters simply would not hunt if left to their own devices. How many deer would all of us "real" hunters have to harvest every year to keep the herd in check? What would your solution be? Again, not tryimg to stir things up but before we clamor for change let's think it through and anticipate new problems we may cause. Sure, party hunting and driving deer aren't perfect but right now it's the best we got; and our deer herd is pretty respectable also! If you got answers I'm willing to listen. Maggs.

Scout, Are you out there?
 
Bowhunters can't control the population, and I'll tell you why. You ever see more then a couple bowhunters try and share the same patch of ground for hunting? I have, and it can get ugly sometimes heh. If shotgun hunting was ever outlawed, leasing and fighting over property would reach a level that would make the average hunter sick to his stomach. When you party hunt, a person can take a look at the deer that use his land, and then decide how many people he wants to hunt it, and be pretty sure that the hunters will take close to the required amount of deer.

We have about 13 who hunt first shotgun, and about 15 or so who hunt second, and this works really well. Seems to be about perfect for the land we hunt.

What do you think would happen if we let 28 bowhunters out there to try and control the population? heh. It would be total anarchy. They like to talk sometimes like they are the Holy Grail of hunting, but I just don't think so. The next time you think that party hunting should be outlawed, I invite you to come look at our crops that sit next to the woods. I love deer hunting as much as anyone, but our farm is our life, and it comes first. Bowhunters can't control the population, but party hunters can (and on our land, they do).
 
Big Country makes a point that is true but I had not thought about with bow hunting. We don't want ANYONE within miles of us when we hunt. I asked a farmer for permission to bow hunt a patch of timber of about 40 acres and was told no, because someone else already bow hunted it but if I wanted to shotgun hunt it during first season (I don't gun hunt) I would be more than welcome. Last year I harvested a P&Y on 12-26, in a patch of timber that had been "driven" at least 40 times during both gun seasons yet I would have be upset if another bow hunter was in the vicinity. My point is that maybe I need to re-think what I "know" about big bucks and how "smart" they are or how quick they learn. It is this "knowledge" that causes the me think that if anyone else is within 2 miles my hunt is ruined. Thanks for getting me thinking BC. Tom
 
What are you calling party hunting? Filling someone elses tag or doing deer drives? As far as filling someone elses tag, the state should just change the law and don't allow it anymore. As far as doing drives, I don't think that is illegal in any state and it would be difficult to enforce.

Now, to answer your question.
1) Sell more antlerless tags. (This would be the best way to control any deer herd. The state does it at several controlled hunt locations.)
2) Allow hunters to purchase 3 (or more) any deer tags. One bow, one shotgun or early muzzloader, one late muzzleloader.
3) Hire snipers. Some of our silly cities are already doing that.
4) Let PETA or HSUS pay for birth control. (Proven to be costly and almost ineffective.)

Finally, "if party hunting was outlawed" will never happen in Iowa. The majority of Iowa's deer hunters are "party" hunters. Some doing it very ethically and engaging in fair chase while others are not.
 
Your premise is flawed...you assume that the deer population is in check as a result of Party Hunting. I submit that when you check other states that do not allow Party Hunting you'll find they can control the population quite well without it. There are plenty of States already doing it.

Terry Little of the DNR had an article in the Iowa Conservationst a couple of years ago about crop damages caused by deer....guess what....extremely exagerated by most uninformed farmers. The majority of damage was made by coons, turkey's and other critters...but the deer got the blame. Would be well worth you time to get ahold of the article and check it out.
 
Granted, those other critters can be a pain also. I agree 100% with you on that one. But, deer eat crops, don't ever let anyone tell you they don't.

The next time you field dress a deer, and find it's belly full of corn ( I have seen this more times then i care to admit), just ask yourself, where did it come from?

All those deer you see out in fields at night are there for one thing, and it isnt to discuss the latest gossip.
 
rembrandt...i cant imagine for a second that coon, turkey...etc...could even compare to deer....
 
No question deer eat corn, the article pointed out that when you see stalks knocked down around the edges of the field it is usually the smaller animals that push the plant over to get to the ears. Deer will generally nibble the corn without downing the entire plant. Wish I could post the article Terry wrote concerning this....it was extremely informative.
 
Like I said Rembrandt, I agree 100% with you about those little critters eating up the crops heh. They do more then enough damage by themselves. I guess short of highfencing fields, not even hunting will ease the pain of crop damage.

I would in fact like to read that article. It seems odd to me that the DNR would write an article like this, but still give farmers who apply for crop damage special tags to remove deer from their land.
 
Like "150 Class" says there is a difference between party hunting and deer drives and I will grant you large deer drives cause more problems than party hunting. Even if they outlawed party hunting people can still hunt together in large groups(which causes the most problems) and drive deer they just can't shoot each others deer. All they have to do is when you shoot your deer you would just become a legal driver and put someone on stand that hasn't shot their deer yet and so on so forth. Also it would be awfully hard for the DNR to patrol who shoots who's deer unless he is in the deer drive with them.
 
The in-town bowhunts aren't working out as well as you would think. CR and IC both tried it for a few years. IC finally ended up hiring sharpshooters. I would much rather see bowhunters take care of the problem, but the logistics of it are too difficult - not to mention that a lot of bowhunters are too high&mighty to hunt does in town. Guys like me who take the words "Any deer" printed on my tag seriously are in the minority.

I've seen bowhunters in yelling matches about who gets to hunt where and listened to them complain about everything from pheasant hunters to woodcutters to tractors to combines to the color of their own eyes. I've seen them take deer on other people's tags. I've seen them trespass. I've seen bowhunters commit every violation attributed on this board to "party hunters" and I don't have any reason to believe that bowhunting has any more inherent value than shotgunning, nor that bowhunters aren't just as willing to bend their ethical standards when a good deer is at stake.

I see nothing wrong with party hunting or driving deer, so long as it's done safely. If the law were changed so that those who had already shot their deer could drive, that would be a better alternative to saying they had to stay at home and wait out the rest of the week. Unfortunately, if you're in small groups (3 or 4 guys), the drivers usually end up with better than 1/2 the shooting.

Some of the farmers where I shotgun hunt were saying they had 30 bushel/acre beans this year. The top 1/2 of the plants were all chewed off, clearly deer damage. Not to mention that the top wire on every fence in the county is broken where the deer cross.

Quite frankly, I'm a little bit sick of this whole party-hunting argument. A simple case of a vocal minority trying to ruin someone else's fun so that they can feel superior.
 
Gianni, your second and last paragraphs sum up how I've felt about this since this topic appeared. I've been eavesdropping on you guys for quite awhile and have enjoyed everyone's opinions on everything. I have a handful of unfilled tags from years past still in my gun cabinet and it wasn't until I started party hunting/driving with buddies that I started shooting deer. That's just my personal experience. On a happier note, this was my first year bowhunting and on Nov. 9 I killed a spike. Don't start about killing young bucks because I had already missed a doe and if a doe had been with the spike I would have shot her. Anyway, I later thanked my buddies for getting me into bowhunting and I'll never lose the memory or the confidence from that day. Now if only Big City Bucks would show up.
 
Gianni...Agreed, the points you make about unethical practices are not privy to only party hunters, I too have seen unethical practices in all methods of take....but the problems mentioned are greater during the shotgun season, some of this will no doubt rise because the percentage of shotgun hunters exceeds all others.

I must take issue with your statement concerning that "the top wire on every fence in the county is broken where the deer cross".....that's a lot of fences someone has been out inspecting. Most fences I've seen were already in previous dis-repair or damaged by hunters crossing them.

I work in agronomy research, 30 bushel an acre beans with some of the weather we had was not that uncommon in certain spots of the state. To imply that the deer ate 1/2 the plants off of entire fields, seems a bit of an exageration.

The biggest problem with trying to bowhunt city limits....are the restrictions put on the hunters (bow or sharpshooters). Most require the hunter to leave no gut piles, bloody messes, or tree stands with in the city. If you take an animal, you must not leave any trace of the kill. Special classes must be attended, and each hunter has to be certified before they can even hunt these areas. Some areas are off limits during particular hours......in short, the majority of hunters won't waste their time with all these restrictions....my, my, and the Cities can't understand why the hunters won't take advantage of their benevolent offers of deer.
 
For what it's worth, the 30/acre number was only in strips about 70 yards wide around the timbers and sloughs. Mid-field they were getting high 50's (good, considering the land it's on).

The "every top-wire" comment was an exaggeration. I should've said that every fence I crossed was damaged, with deer hair stuck on every barb for 3 feet in either direction. In the majority of the state, people have done away with wintering livestock in the fields, so fences are left in a state of disrepair as suggested. I hunt in dairy country, so fences are pretty well maintained.

DNR stats show that shotgun hunters outnumbered bowhunters about 4/1 last year, so I would fully expect that a majority of violations occurred during shotgun. More importantly, I would expect that a larger number of violations are reported during shotgun season because landowners are usually paying much better attention, hunters are easier to see, they make more of a racket, and our wonderful media has associated guns with danger and crime.

Good job on the spike. Congratulations are certainly due when any hunter returns home victorious.
 
I have an idea that I think that would help in keeping the deer heard in check. Every deer hunter is issued a doe only tag and after that doe is brought into a check station another tag for any sex will be issued. While we are at it, set up something where if the hunter that brings in the doe at the check station can donate the deer to local food banks to be distribuated to people in need. The DNR could charge a $5 fee for the doe and then $25 for the any sex tag. This is just an idea of mine and in my opion this would help deer populations, but I am not a deer biologist.


later
 
"Gianni" I have been told by a warden it is legal to continue to hunt or help (as long as you don't carry a weapon) after you fill your tag with a muzzeloader inwhich party hunting is NOT allowed. If this is not true I would like to know for sure.
 
BrunoBuck, if the game warden for the county of which you hunt says it is ok, that should be good enough because he is the one who will see you doing it. However this is open to interpretation and some game wardens I have talked to see it differently, especially in Polk County.

Some day I would like to see a solid ruling on this posted on the DNR website. In fact tonight I am going to send them an e-mail to add this to their most commonly asked questions. I have seen it at least 3 times in the last month on this board.

IaCraig
 
First of all from what I've seen even with party hunting the population is not under control. I think that part of that reason is the groups of guys that go out with the plan that they will only shoot bucks. I've seen more than a few groups of 12-16 guys that filled all of their tags with bucks. I really wouldn't have a problem with that if they were all mature bucks, how could a guy pass on the opportunity, but most of them were basket 6's or less. I think we all know that to help control the population we need to clean out the does. I like the idea mentioned about filling a doe tag first then getting an "any sex" tag, but that probably needs to be controlled on a county basis also. As for the "city hunts" I had thought about it, but it was so difficult to jump through all of th hoops as far as getting permission from all of the neighboring properties and such that I decided to stick with country huntin'
 
If party hunting is so awesome at controlling our herd, let's make half the shotgun tags antlerless. Then you can actually shoot a doe which = 3 deer next summer when I am driving on the highway!

Let's lay this subject to rest.....nobody is going to change ANYONES mind on this. I also think there is a misconception that bowhunters loathe gunhunters. That is not the case at all, at least with me since I muzzle late. I just think it would be neat that when someone goes hunting they actually shoot their own deer. Isn't that a novel idea?! There is nothing 'holier than thou' about that.....it is called sportsmanship.
 
I have party hunted since I was 12 years old and noone has ever filled my tag. Everyone hear has some good ideas, maybe if we combined a few of them together we might have something. Your legislators will listen! (Sometimes)
 
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