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"Fragile", "Good 'Ol Days", "Eratic", "Best in nation", "Under threat", "Balanced"

Sligh1

Administrator
Staff member
These are some words that describe Iowa to me and just a FEW of the ways I see Iowa portrayed. Like a broken record I discussed this on the threads regarding the new bills, new seasons and new weapons we just had proposed, have had proposed all the times for years and will see in the future. I don't mean to beat a dead horse or have a petty argument. I post things, I personally think we all need to give some "deep thought" to. For very good reason. I remember listening to "some speaker" at "some big outdoors event" (I can't even remember) around the late 90's, maybe 2000 saying something along the lines of "guys, this is as good as deer hunting has ever been around the country, EVER. Guys, these here are the GOOD 'OL DAYS and like anything in life, anything that peaks to greatness, will be threatened in many ways". (Just like the great nations of history or even the direction of this country currently (sorry, another topic sort of)). I still remember this sentiment as he explained to make sure you do enjoy the "good 'ol days" cause in "a generation" it could be gone. It was hard to think like that at maybe 19-20 years old and grasp what he was saying but I believe those words to this day.

I think it's important (at least for a deer hunting nerd and someone with management passion) to think about deer hunting from the long term, short term and really long term..... Such as.... 1,000 years ago (whatever) - we actually had "quite a few deer", I believe (yes, pin me down, I could be wrong) I've read we had more deer when Columbus landed than now actually. I'm going to put SOME FACTS & FIGURES BACKED UP IN HERE and then I'm going to add some major points I believe I am accounting for correctly but glad to be corrected. Think of long term and short term what's happened during this time....

1) Sometime in the 1900's deer were basically wiped out from Iowa. "In 1936 there were only 500 to 700 deer in the state. A 1947 survey put the number at 1650. By 1950, about 10,000 deer. When hunting resumed in 1953 there were around 12,000 to 15,000 deer". That's only 50 years ago that deer were a rare thing to see! Then, I believe it was the 80's things started ramping up, eventually where we could then start shooting does, etc (I wasn't hunting at this time so not sure).

2) I want to give you some quick stats on deer in Iowa or deer in general.
- In ONLY 7 years, our deer harvest went down 34% (guys, that's a SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME)- http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49795

3) Iowa is considered by many (go get quotes, stats, etc) the most "transformed state in the country". Millions of acres of native grasses, prairies and a lot of timber - taken out for the massive agriculture we have today that feeds the world. In the last 5 years, the amount of timber dozed out and CRP taken out is STAGGERING, the figures (anywhere you look) are immense). You don't need to look at figures, you just need to look out your car window. "Iowa contains 5-7% timber" - those are actually stats from about 5 years ago! Compare that to: NOW and compare it to states like WI, MN, MO, MI, IL, etc - all containing huge multiples of that amount of timber.

4) I've been in states like WI, MI, MN, etc where for a while, people went WAY OVERBOARD (or maybe it was the DNR & Farm Bureau pushing folks to) on killing off the deer. I remember talking to guys in WI that said "the best doe to kill is every one in range". Then, I talk to the same circles in vast areas of those states and honestly, almost like clockwork and chiming together they say "we screwed it up BAD". "This place is a mess". Or even "little things" that no one would ever think could hurt the "invincible deer herd" happened - wolves introduced. Or "Earn a buck tag (shooting a doe 1st)". Or "Record doe tag quotas or even unlimited in many areas". I see those same areas and guys now going "man, it's screwed up, it's a joke here". They see it. Same with a vast amount of guys I know hunting the upper 2/3rd's of our state VS 10 years ago, it's a mess for a lot of them. (where I hunt, no, it's good but we limit things closely). Lot of tough conditions out there, really tough.

5) I was at my good friend, REST HIS SOUL, Paul Knox's house 5 years ago (I know Paul, this deer stuff is silliness down here but you know it's fun earthly stuff, I know you understand)...... I told him I'd really been limiting & balancing the mature bucks & does shot off my place. I went in one cold night and went over a night I was filming and the deer had herded up with huge snow amounts and massive herds of deer in my corn & beans. I said "Paul, it was crazy, I bet I saw 100 deer" and I think maybe I showed him some video or something. As we were talking he shows me on his computer, in 2 secs some stats that EVEN IN IOWA..... "Skip, how many of those deer you think were 5 years old???" I thought about it and I said "well, I didn't see any 5 year old bucks actually". I believe he showed me that something like 2-4% (maybe it was bucks, I can't remember) & I specifically remember he compared to states like PA where he had stats like "less than 1% reach it to 5 years old". It astounded me how hard it was to get a deer to that age and when you glance over a field, even with bucks, how many are really 1, 2, 3 years old, etc. The VAST VAST majority. And for bucks, mainly due to hunter mortality. (Forgive me, this is 5 years+ back in my memory but you get my point and I'm trying to be as precise as possible).

I bring up #5 from my long ago conversation and listening to a genius, Paul, who had the stats and thought about that stuff like I did. I thought how incredible and hard it was to get a deer to 5 and what an accomplishment it was to get it done. Then, TODAY, I think of how careful we need to be because that group of deer, the warriors and smart & lucky deer (and many lucky ones are passed to reach that age) that reach it to 5 - that's a delicate age class we are lucky to have a reasonable shot at and how easily that could vanish if we put, for example, XYZ, 10k, 20k, 30k, whatever - new crossbow hunters in the rut OR even if we increased the amount of archery hunters by that # or shifted the gun season into a more vulnerable time on those bucks. (MATURE BUCKS ARE PART OF A NATURAL DEER HERD, DEFINES BALANCE & IS HEALTHY FOR A DEER HERD TO HAVE THIS AGE STRUCTURE!!!) Our Regulations is a big part of why we have "so many" (which is still so few) mature bucks VS other states. And what little it would take (use Illinois as an example if you followed that state at all like I have, spending 5 years hunting there) to eradicate a lot more 2, 3, 4 year olds EASILY with a handful of changes we could make. It's a pretty delicate balancing act really and a miracle we do have the mature bucks we do vs other states.


So, what's my bottom line.... Maybe just for getting some folks to think about how up and down over 1,000, 100, 10 years our deer herd is. How special of a place Iowa is. How, from my experience and hundreds of others on here - how we don't want Iowa to turn into all the other states we ran from. I guess my call to join the IBA will always be common sense and an ongoing effort because they are also a big part of why Iowa is what it is and many other states that went down the tubes don't have the equivalent. In fair balance, I think there will "ALWAYS" be pockets and parts of the state immune from many things like reg changes. But that's the case in any state if you get enough good land under a cooperative program of management that doesn't allow Government, Politics, Regs, etc to get into to their management. For the rest, we have very little to fight back with. Where has the fight & changes came from? In the last 20 years, Farm Bureau, $, Special Interests, etc. What do we have to fight back? Almost nothing except hanging up the bow & gun and stop hunting (just like the pheasant hunters did). OR, we have the IBA, a common sense state & a group of guys who have awaken on what's going on. I'm happy to see the National Deer Alliance around the country as well (where some of the best states have seen a 50% drop in harvests, etc) - finally hunters are getting a voice - it's still David VS Goliath but we're making progress. AWARENESS, NEVER LETTING OUR GUARD DOWN, READY FOR NEXT YEAR'S LEGISLATURES, ETC - we need to defend Iowa to keep it a great place for generations and I write this because we do need to look at history & if we don't, we're bound to repeat it. Keep on it, keep Iowa, IOWA.
 
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Once again I agree with your every word. This is the type of writeup that needs to be sent to the desk of all parties involved in the maintaining of our regs. Legislators, governor, DNR, FB, everyone.
Very well said.
 
Once again I agree with your every word. This is the type of writeup that needs to be sent to the desk of all parties involved in the maintaining of our regs. Legislators, governor, DNR, FB, everyone. Very well said.

Yep I agree with everything you said too Skip
 
While all these associations and alliances are good in nature. Be very careful what you are pushing. While you and I share the same wish for mature deer don't be trying to push this on all hunters. Look out for young,middle aged, and older hunters. Don't be self centered. Iowa has it together. Don't divide. Archery as well as firearm hunters.
 
Well said Skip!

But 99% of the guys on this site agree completely and have educated themselves on this topic. I'd say 99% of the guys on this site are not part of the problem our state is facing. It comes down to agriculture. At the end of the day, it's a business and in most cases deer aren't paying those bills. Until our government steps in and offers benefits like they did in the 90's and early 20's (programs like CRP, or programs that actually made it worth putting things into set aside) I don't see things changing from that stand point. I also don't see things changing because as stated before, money seems to be the root of all evil, and when someone or a group has the opportunity who are we to say he/she is right/wrong on following through with that plan to make that quick buck? (getting rid of hedge rows for one more acre of farm ground, getting rid of waterways to try and make couple extra bushels in that field, not re enlisting CRP because of high grain prices, draining and tiling marsh ground to "try" and farm it.)


Like I said Skip, I completely agree with you, but after being actively involved with many different opportunities to be apart of business's in the Ag world and speaking with many many different farmers all over Iowa/Southern Minnesota the main, obvious concern is education. So many farmers are dead set in their ways and wan't "proof" of why they should change their farming practices. If it works why fix it type of stuff. It's like pulling teeth getting the "good ol' boys to understand the benefits of precision ag and how the return on their investment is so much shorter than any other "piece" of equipment they may think they need or want. Same goes for buffers, fence rows, waterways, hedge rows, etc the benefit of having all this stuff is much much bigger than just making "wildlife" happy. The logic in a waterway or marsh in a wet spot apparently isn't clear as many thought. The logic in having windbreaks/hedge or no tilling on steep inclines for erosion purposes apparently isn't clear enough.....see where I'm going?

With that being said, you're complexly correct and I think all of us stand behind what you've said. I just hope us as the little guys in this industry will have a loud enough voice for those up high to listen and see that something must be done.
 
Gotcha guys. This is coming from a guy that: 1) Farms and deals with all the Ag issues we all do. I make choices and a lot are different (with management, conservation, etc) than even my wife's family's land - which is their right to do as they wish. 2) I don't knock the "new or younger hunters". I quit hunting MI, around 21 years old. I started, hard core, around 14 years old. I started leaving, going out of state around 19-20 because MI sucked so badly for almost anything and I saw more hunters than deer & seeing all year olds even got "boring to me" after a few years. One time out of state opened my eyes and it was game over for MI. that's after hunting the best and worst across the whole state of MI (worst was probably Ottawa Co or maybe Traverse City - Best was SW Michigan or SE Michigan). I knew, as a youngster, a young lover of outdoors - I loved hunting way to much to spend my time in crap-capital of the country for management and I baled. I sure loved my few years shooting year old bucks, but for me, uniquely, it only lasted 2-3 years and I really wanted to explore what good management looks like and I found it. Also saw all the changes in many states in the last 10 years along this journey. SO..... Don't think I'm throwing stones at anyone, that "anyone" was me at one point and I "GET IT". My experience has also helped me really understand Iowa and appreciate it to possibly a larger degree than folks who haven't seen what "truly crappy hunting and management" look like.
 
Well said Skip!

But 99% of the guys on this site agree completely and have educated themselves on this topic. I'd say 99% of the guys on this site are not part of the problem our state is facing. It comes down to agriculture. At the end of the day, it's a business and in most cases deer aren't paying those bills. Until our government steps in and offers benefits like they did in the 90's and early 20's (programs like CRP, or programs that actually made it worth putting things into set aside) I don't see things changing from that stand point. I also don't see things changing because as stated before, money seems to be the root of all evil, and when someone or a group has the opportunity who are we to say he/she is right/wrong on following through with that plan to make that quick buck? (getting rid of hedge rows for one more acre of farm ground, getting rid of waterways to try and make couple extra bushels in that field, not re enlisting CRP because of high grain prices, draining and tiling marsh ground to "try" and farm it.)


Like I said Skip, I completely agree with you, but after being actively involved with many different opportunities to be apart of business's in the Ag world and speaking with many many different farmers all over Iowa/Southern Minnesota the main, obvious concern is education. So many farmers are dead set in their ways and wan't "proof" of why they should change their farming practices. If it works why fix it type of stuff. It's like pulling teeth getting the "good ol' boys to understand the benefits of precision ag and how the return on their investment is so much shorter than any other "piece" of equipment they may think they need or want. Same goes for buffers, fence rows, waterways, hedge rows, etc the benefit of having all this stuff is much much bigger than just making "wildlife" happy. The logic in a waterway or marsh in a wet spot apparently isn't clear as many thought. The logic in having windbreaks/hedge or no tilling on steep inclines for erosion purposes apparently isn't clear enough.....see where I'm going?

With that being said, you're complexly correct and I think all of us stand behind what you've said. I just hope us as the little guys in this industry will have a loud enough voice for those up high to listen and see that something must be done.

It seems a lot of what you are describing in regards to CRP elimination had to do with $7+ corn prices. I have talked to a couple farmers who are actually going the other direction starting next year and putting ground back into CRP. I don't pretend to know what grain is going to do, but obviously that will have a lot to do with what happens with future CRP decisions.
 
It seems a lot of what you are describing in regards to CRP elimination had to do with $7+ corn prices. I have talked to a couple farmers who are actually going the other direction starting next year and putting ground back into CRP. I don't pretend to know what grain is going to do, but obviously that will have a lot to do with what happens with future CRP decisions.

The only thing that comes into making decisions when it comes to farming practices outside from rules and regulations they must follow is $$$$$$$$$$.

Farming is a business and everyone who farms will tell you this. Farmers who don't hunt/fish/or even have the slightest interest in the wildlife and habitat management are not gong to enlist farm crop that "could" be farmed into programs like CRP unless they feel it's in the best interest of them long term in regards to making an income.

You said it yourself, $7/corn and other grain prices made the choice for CRP and other things to be farmed, however I was saying that if this is going to change, programs need to be put into place that can also fluctuate as the markets do. So if grain prices and land prices are consistently going up yet CRP and other land incentives are staying the same, you honestly think farmers from the profit/loss standpoint are going to enlist their land in something that's going to lose them money? Absolutely not.
 
Not saying it's going to happen but what SHOULD HAPPEN when we change our regulations.... We SHOULD account for all the acres lost from Crp & timber dozed to say "there's xyz less habitat, we should adjust tags at that proportion". I'm not advocating we force our farmers to change their ways- it's their land. We should in some way reflect the tag allocations based on the landscape though. I know it likely won't happen (well, actually it kinda has already in counties with few deer due partially to little cover). I'm all for defending our regulations so we stay the same and don't get liberal new ones but we should strive to account for our changing landscape from the last 5 years.
On a positive note- as a farmer, I am somewhat pleased to see crop prices correcting. It needed to happen and I'm pleased to see more want to enroll in CRP. It's the natural market dictating itself and nice to see the pendulum get swung towards wildlife for a change.
 
I couldn't have said it better myself. Growing up in NE Iowa I used to see hundreds of deer in January herded up in fields all across our area. Now, you are lucky to see a "herd." Hunting mainly in Madison and Warren County the past 10 years, I have seen the populations steadily decline..until EHD hit my area...and...well we had a sharp reduction. EHD paired with over harvest for 10 years or so has really hit the area hard. I am happy to say this year I did not tag a doe...and I will do the same next year as well. I was fortunate to harvest a 5+ year old buck, but like your post stated...it may have been the only 5 year old I saw this year. It will take the sportsman to change the outlook of our deer hunting. Great post!
 
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