Giant Deer of Iowa are rapidly becoming a past memory

[Hardwood11]

Deer drives will take a few deer. However, how many bucks do these guys push off their farms for good ! I’ve seen it more than once where a group pushes their timber and draws and they bump a giant out (untouched) & the hunters never even saw him .

Then the same group sits on stand that evening in the same area they just pushed ?

 

[CottonwoodCanyon]

Deer drives will take a few deer. However, how many bucks do these guys push off their farms for good ! I’ve seen it more than once where a group pushes their timber and draws and they bump a giant out (untouched) & the hunters never even saw him .

Then the same group sits on stand that evening in the same area they just pushed ?

A lot, especially with low-average habitat. I have permission on a "giant" farm, but 95% of that giant farm is ag. The bow season can be great but there's a group that pushes it every year on 1st season and there's often a trespasser or two during the gun season, and that farm goes completely silent for the rest of the season and is rarely worth shed hunting.

I'm sure that's part of the reason a lot of big managed farms with good thermal cover and late season food sources often see random bucks show up.

 

[Iowa]

A lot, especially with low-average habitat. I have permission on a "giant" farm, but 95% of that giant farm is ag. The bow season can be great but there's a group that pushes it every year on 1st season and there's often a trespasser or two during the gun season, and that farm goes completely silent for the rest of the season and is rarely worth shed hunting.

I'm sure that's part of the reason a lot of big managed farms with good thermal cover and late season food sources often see random bucks show up.

How many farms like this would remain good for multiple seasons if party hunting went away ? I honestly don’t know, just curious what everyone’s thoughts are on it ? How much access is actually available if vehicle restrictions were strictly enforced (some states they stay at the road , period ) would more of these sections hold deer until the winter really set in ?

 

[newfarmer]

How many farms like this would remain good for multiple seasons if party hunting went away ? I honestly don’t know, just curious what everyone’s thoughts are on it ? How much access is actually available if vehicle restrictions were strictly enforced (some states they stay at the road , period ) would more of these sections hold deer until the winter really set in ?

Man- if the trucks had to stay on the road nothing would get hunted around me I’ve got a huge bunch of lazy guys around me

 

[seven twenty]

How many farms like this would remain good for multiple seasons if party hunting went away ? I honestly don’t know, just curious what everyone’s thoughts are on it ? How much access is actually available if vehicle restrictions were strictly enforced (some states they stay at the road , period ) would more of these sections hold deer until the winter really set in ?

There’s more to it than some guys pushing through 1wkd of the year. If the deer are happy there, they are going to go right back in. You can push a piece in the morning and more often than not push it again that evening and get deer out.

Deer drives will take a few deer. However, how many bucks do these guys push off their farms for good ! I’ve seen it more than once where a group pushes their timber and draws and they bump a giant out (untouched) & the hunters never even saw him .

Then the same group sits on stand that evening in the same area they just pushed ?

From my experience, the deer tend to circle right back in. That’s if they didn’t just sit tight or slip between the pushers. That’s especially true in set aside. You just about have to step on them to get them up a lot of the time. Heck, even when we are bird hunting they sit tight and let the dogs run around them.

 

[justinkarns]

Are you referring to Marlin Hoch? If so, he told a good buddy of mine the same story when he dropped off his sons buck couple days ago. as they discussed it, the overall conclusion; grown men can’t eat a tag. If the deer they want to kill aren’t there; a lot of guys refuse to eat a tag and kill a less than buck just to get the grip and grin picture to brag to their social media buddies. This system continues to repeat itself as social media becomes more and more prevalent in grown men’s lives. Mix that with EHD, more and more parcels being divided thus putting more hunters in a sq mile area and here we sit. A giant recipe for a disaster………..

truth

 

[tall@wide]

I think everyone can agree giant mature bucks are becoming more and more rare. So what is the only real way to improve age structure……The only way is to make hunting harder and not any easier. In Iowa we can leave all the seasons the same but tweak a few things. Stop party hunting for residents, shoot only the tags you have. No scopes on muzzleloaders or a standard fixed power 2-4 power scope allowed. The muzzleloaders that shoot 5-600 yards are ridiculous. Reduce the number of buck tags to 1 or 2 total. 3+bucks allowed now is too many. Cell cams being banned would help tremendously, but they are not going away on private land due to legal issues. I don’t see any other way to increase age structure, most hunters definitely are not going to police themselves.

 

[iowavf]

I think everyone can agree giant mature bucks are becoming more and more rare. So what is the only real way to improve age structure……The only way is to make hunting harder and not any easier. In Iowa we can leave all the seasons the same but tweak a few things. Stop party hunting for residents, shoot only the tags you have. No scopes on muzzleloaders or a standard fixed power 2-4 power scope allowed. The muzzleloaders that shoot 5-600 yards are ridiculous. Reduce the number of buck tags to 1 or 2 total. 3+bucks allowed now is too many. Cell cams being banned would help tremendously, but they are not going away on private land due to legal issues. I don’t see any other way to increase age structure, most hunters definitely are not going to police themselves.

Don't forget to add, no hunting during the rut. Bows that shoot 40 to 50 yards are ridiculous. No aiming pins on bows allowed. Isn't it ironic how bow hunters never mention anything that affects their season or way of hunting when they're coming up with solutions?

 

[Windlooker]

No pins to aim. lol. More deer would be wounded than anything. I think sights on bows are fine. If anything I would ban the range finding bow sights, sights that magnify and of course continue to keep cross bows out.

 

[Muddyrem]

Don't forget to add, no hunting during the rut. Bows that shoot 40 to 50 yards are ridiculous. No aiming pins on bows allowed. Isn't it ironic how bow hunters never mention anything that affects their season or way of hunting when they're coming up with solutions?

I mean, let’s be honest here. Even with the fancy of fancy when it comes to archery equipment, a guy still has to make the shot. A lot can go wrong with a bow and arrow. Since the introduction of the straight wall…….rifle……….smokeless muzzleloader, trip pods that lock your gun into place. It’s basically point and shoot at this point. So many guys upping their success just based off those things. We can all stick our heads in the sand; but the reality is, we’ve made it a lot easier for the everyday guy to pick up a gun, sit in a heated shack over standing grain and kill a big deer. Im not knocking it because i do it too, but that’s the truth of the matter.

We need the Cameron Coble model………..1 buck state. Only way I see us ever getting out of the hole we’ve dug for ourselves with age structure in Iowa.

 

[hillrunner]

Don't forget to add, no hunting during the rut. Bows that shoot 40 to 50 yards are ridiculous. No aiming pins on bows allowed. Isn't it ironic how bow hunters never mention anything that affects their season or way of hunting when they're coming up with solutions?

I would guess that cell cams are used mainly by bow hunters and many of us would like to see restrictions on those. Almost nobody wants to see crossbows allowed in archery. A one buck rule would affect bow hunters equal to gun hunters. Several of us thought floating landowner tags were a mistake, that benefits bow and gun hunters equally. A lot of us would like to see in season feeding banned as well, again, equal effect.
I'm not saying you don't have a point, it's human nature to always think the "other guy" is the problem. However, I think there are a fair number of guys on here who are willing to give some things up be it gun or bow season.

 

[newfarmer]

I would guess that cell cams are used mainly by bow hunters and many of us would like to see restrictions on those. Almost nobody wants to see crossbows allowed in archery. A one buck rule would affect bow hunters equal to gun hunters. Several of us thought floating landowner tags were a mistake, that benefits bow and gun hunters equally. A lot of us would like to see in season feeding banned as well, again, equal effect.
I'm not saying you don't have a point, it's human nature to always think the "other guy" is the problem. However, I think there are a fair number of guys on here who are willing to give some things up be it gun or bow season.

Everyone says 1 buck state- “look at Ohio- it works”… but look how population changed for them. The simple thing Iowa needs to do- hear me out- no doe tags for 2 years unless you’re a youth hunter. Bet we’d already see some changes because there will be more deer

 

[Windlooker]

Ohio is also a bait and crossbow state. Not sure how they maintain quality.

 

[hillrunner]

Everyone says 1 buck state- “look at Ohio- it works”… but look how population changed for them. The simple thing Iowa needs to do- hear me out- no doe tags for 2 years unless you’re a youth hunter. Bet we’d already see some changes because there will be more deer

Not a chance, farmers in deer country would scream so loud that the backlash would result in us being in a far worse place than we are now. Those guys already think the population is madly out of control, we will not force a high population on them.

 

[150 Class]

Don't forget to add, no hunting during the rut. Bows that shoot 40 to 50 yards are ridiculous. No aiming pins on bows allowed. Isn't it ironic how bow hunters never mention anything that affects their season or way of hunting when they're coming up with solutions?

Good points! I will add to say we have 5-600 yard guns is no different than saying modern day compound bows are capable of 100-125 yards. Both are capable but it’s simply not happening. The 600 yards argument loses credibility when you look at facts and reality and it makes the rest of the points look ridiculous too.

 

[Daver]

...

We need the Cameron Coble model………..1 buck state. Only way I see us ever getting out of the hole we’ve dug for ourselves with age structure in Iowa.

At the risk of being a broken record...while I don't oppose going to a one buck state, I don't see that as "the" solution in any way, shape or form here in Iowa. Older bucks are rare as hen's teeth right now around our farm and no one that I know of has taken a 2nd buck, let alone a 3rd, in the last 2-3 years. The one buck "solution" would have ZERO impact on our area, ZERO.

That approach, at best, comes in about 6th or 7th on the list of things to do/address first, IMO.

Another way to look at it is...what has changed? Guys could take two, and RLO's three, bucks for years now and up until pretty recently we still had good to excellent numbers of older bucks. So...what explains the absence of older animals?

1. EHD. Be glad, very glad, if your area has escaped the plague, because when/if it comes, then I suspect that you will see for yourselves how "different" everything is.

2. Technology, specifically cell cams. Plenty of dudes are using these devices to really zero in on bucks...and then often harvesting them in a matter of hours subsequent to getting the email or text as to the exact whereabouts AND "whenabouts" of that animal. I also see the use of drones as a looming issue. I don't oppose the use of a drone, ON PROPERTY THAT YOU HAVE PERMISSION FOR, to recover wounded game, but in that case, then no hunting should be allowed for, I dunno, 3 days following or something. You could also include far better and longer range weaponry here.

3. High grading and lowered standards of what constitutes a "shooter". 140"ish 3 year olds are not being passed up nearly as much as they used to be. Why? Because when EHD chops off 80% of 4+ year olds, then those bucks are the best available out there and guys cannot, or will not, lay off of them. God forbid that a high po 2 year old dances out in front of a hunter...they don't last long either.

I think we would be wise to consider the example of our neighboring state Illinois...they USED TO have outstanding whitetail hunting but have fallen WAY OFF in the past 10+ years. Yes, probably because of a different set of conditions than we are facing now...BUT, the huge common denominator is that TOO MANY older bucks are being removed from the herd every year and now many years down the road, they are a sad shadow of what they used to be. That's where I see us heading too, FWIW.

We have to make it more difficult to harvest a mature animal, not easier every year, aided in large part by electronic surveillance.

 

[Daver]

Good points! I will add to say we have 5-600 yard guns is no different than saying modern day compound bows are capable of 100-125 yards. Both are capable but it’s simply not happening. The 600 yards argument loses credibility when you look at facts and reality and it makes the rest of the points look ridiculous too.

Just a FWIW...while I don't recall the exact distance/yardage of the super duper muzzy that was used...I watched a video clip a few years ago now where a hunter shot a buck at very long range with his muzzy. It so happened that the video was made about 1/8 mile from my main farm and we knew that buck. Minus the extreme range muzzy shot...I suspect that buck would have lived another season.

Back in the day, there just wasn't a way to take a deer down at that range in Iowa...therefore, you either figured out a way to get closer OR you didn't get them.

 

[Iowa]

I think the most logical way to fix Iowa is 1:increase the population
2: look at harvest data for each season and make an educated decision on how to reduce buck harvest for each one ( for example if 75% of our harvest is during gun season then that’s probably where we should start changing things )
3: I’m going out tonight and I will have 4 different things in my pack that take a battery… 20 years ago it would have been zero.

 

[newfarmer]

Just a FWIW...while I don't recall the exact distance/yardage of the super duper muzzy that was used...I watched a video clip a few years ago now where a hunter shot a buck at very long range with his muzzy. It so happened that the video was made about 1/8 mile from my main farm and we knew that buck. Minus the extreme range muzzy shot...I suspect that buck would have lived another season.

Back in the day, there just wasn't a way to take a deer down at that range in Iowa...therefore, you either figured out a way to get closer OR you didn't get them.

a local here did a video shooting a buck with his smokeless at 832 yards... dropped it stone dead... he does all kinds of "distance muzzleloader shoots", great shot, but doesnt give the deer a chance at all... (and he had several people with him as they hunt in a group during late muzzy)

 

[sep0667]

1. Increasing the herd population is the answer to me. Could you imagine how quickly the herd and age class would bounce back if there was a just a plain no doe harvest for 3 years statewide? Heck, say no deer hunting statewide for 2 years, even bucks. Could you imagine how many mature deer there would be across the state after 2 years of no buck harvests?!?!?! Fun to think about

2. If EHD would disappear or a tolerance be built that would be a huge help. Tough to get a buck to 4+ plus when there are rounds of EHD every few years, plus its killing the does(population)