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Giant Landowners- Hunters like you?

Sligh1

Sligh1

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Just wondering what your thoughts are (I'll keep MOST of mine out of it- I guess I'll give mine at bottom). So, there's many, many guys (alot on the videos) that own like 700, 1,200, 1,800, 3,000 acres, WHATEVER.

I think there's folks who are jealous of giant landowners (that's natural and I understand that) BUT let's try and leave that part out. I'd own 2,000 acres in 2 seconds if I could. QUESTION: Would I be a hunter just like you if I did? Would I be a top notch hunter if I owned 2,000 acres and shot a 170-190" most years? Does it bug you when those guys on videos portray themselves to be hunters just like you? Does it bother you or not that these folks are considered great hunters? What's your thoughts on these drastically different 2 groups of hunters? When you see a GIANT shot and it was from 100 acres compared to 2,500 acres- does that catch your attention and make you appreciate it more? (all this aside from jealousy obviously. I don't think most people are BUT it's natural to some degree)

***My opinion that I said I would keep to a minimum cause I am curious your thoughts...
-Bugs me when they tell you they are hunters just like you AND they give you tips for your area. I'd say most guys don't have 1,000 acres in Iowa, ability to choose pressure amounts and ability to leave up 20 acres of standing corn/beans.
-I know some are good hunters BUT bugs me when people think they are the best out there when really there's probably a few hunters we know that shoot giants on small tracts of regular land that don't get any publicity and don't want it.
-shooting giant bucks ANYWHERE is hard. shooting them on 2,000 acres is 1000% more do-able though. Just my thoughts.

what's your take????
 
My take on the whole situation is, you have to be a very good manager in order grow deer of that caliber. Sure, anyone can buy a big piece of ground, lock everyone out, and kill a few monster bucks, but in time if you don't manage your ground, it will work against you.

I tip my hat to most of these guys, such as Drury's. Those guys manage their ground perfectly for monster bucks. It shows. They had some great ground in Iowa, now they are doing the same thing in Missouri. Kisky's are another group that do a great job of managing. If they didn't take out the doe's that they do, let bucks grow, pass on bucks that most would die to kill, they wouldn't kill the caliber of bucks that they do.

The guys that just go to an outfitter are not really in the same group as the people I said. Now I know that Drury's will go to an outfitter from time to time, but I'm talking about the ground that they own. I'm not against anyone going to an outfitter, if your from out of state, and are not even remotely close to the state, if you choose to pay someone else to scout for you, so be it, it is your buisness.

Back to the original question, I tip my hat to those who are able to purchase the ground they have, and manage it to the max.
 
I guess I agree with Skip...I'd love to own 2000 acres but I don't...

I don't watch those videos for that reason, owning that kind of ground is an unfair advantage compared to the rest of us. I think if anyone of those people had to get permission and hunt smll tracts they'd be hard pressed to kill that caliber of animals.

I'm not jealous or envious but they just don't have anything in common with me and my "little piece of dirt"... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif
 
Doing all the work and passing all the bucks and managing the deer is AWESOME- I agree. These big land owners are a far different animal than outfitter and guide land. I would almost NEVER want an outfitter for a neighbor- horrible management and way too many young bucks shot. I'd love a rich and hardcore manager for a neighbor that had 2,000 acres.

I guess the part the bugs me a little is the portrayal that they are hunters just like you. Just to be clear, I have nothing against owning 2,000 acres and would do it myself in a heartbeat if I could. Just don't think they are hunters just like you in situations just like you- not even close if you ask me. BUT, what they do for the land is to be commended and they get a reward for their work, money and management.
 
I'd agree it's not the same. On some videos they'll be putting up stands and tell you that they won't be hunted from for a year or probably more. Most of us can't do that. Most of us probably hunt 50-100 acres if you're lucky. With that amount of land I really don't think you can "manage" it for mature bucks just because they will travel off your small piece of land. Sure you can pass on smaller buck but who's to say your neighbor 100 yards away will do the same.
Owning huge tracts of land you can actually hold and manage for mature bucks. Sure some will travel across the fence but with that much land a majority will reside on your land until they die. Also when owning that much land there is really no pressure on the deer. If you get busted on a set up one day you can move 100 acres over and have a new unpressured spot and let the other one sit til next year or the year after.
Also with the big name videos they get everything free. Stands,trailcams ect. Most of us don't have the time or money to keep track of 100+ different stands and trail cams. I saw on Drury's that they use GPS to keep track of theres. Must be rough. I do like there videos though.
I wouldn't say it's easier to shoot a big buck every year on large tracts of land but I would say you'd have allot better chance if you're a good hunter and do things right.
AM I jealous of them. Nope, I enjoy hunting I don't want it to be a job. I don't want the pressure of having to get everything on video or everthing else they have to deal with. If I did video myself I wouldn't want to drop company names every other word to keep them happy. It would be nice to get free stands when you want or the latest trail cameras and bows.
Would I buy a large tract. Sure and allot of other people would be welcome to use it. They'd have to hang there own stands though.
 
I guess I should add, that I know of many guys that knock on doors, gain permission, help out landowners where they can, that continually kill trophy mature whitetails year in and year out. Sure, some of them just have a great spot, but others just plain know how to hunt mature deer. I think more of these guys than I do the video legends, but I will say that some of the video producers out there do put in the time and management practices it takes to grow trophy whitetails.
 
1000 acres or 10, you still have to get close and you still have to make the shot. However, I think it would be a little easier to get close when you have 1000 acres, but it doesn't change the shot.

As far as respect for those owners of large tracts as hunters, well, it sorta depends, are they tryin to make a dollar off of me or do they hunt for pleasure like I do? One has my respect, the other, not so much. I guess I look at 'em like pitch men at the state fair or maybe Billy whats his name that sells everything on TV (oxyclean and a ton of other stuff). I feel they just want my money and don't really care about wanting my respect. I might have a different opinion if I met some of them in person, but I'm just highly suspicious of salesmen.

The 'Bonker
 
Coming from a guy in Ga who would give anything to be able to hunt in Iowa on any size of land, I say "be happy with what you got and don't pitch a fit" to borrow a phrase. In other words I'd love to have access to even 5 acres but I don't so I going to do the best I can with what I've got. You asked to keep discussions of envy out but to me thats the point of this conversation.

I agree with nannyslayer in that groups like the Drury's should be commended for their wise management. Your question that they may be less of an hunter because they have more land is not a fair one. If anything groups like the Drurys are more of a hunter because they have made thier situation better by proper management of the land and deer. In my opinion the guy who hunts only 10 acres of land has to rely alot on luck for a alpha buck to venture through his little neck of the woods. But if you have over 4 square miles of land (2500ac) then you have that bucks complete range more than likely or at least the majority of it and if you can determine where he will be an any given day by patterning his behavoir and movements and kill him, does that make you any lesser of a hunter? Of course not. Do I envy that guy? Yea sure, alittle, but lets not fret over it. Do I consider them to be like me? Sure because I would do exactly what are doing if I could, but since I can't I will just live vicariously through them.


What early bothers me are the shows where you know the host if faking the enthusiasm. What I want is authentic enjoyment of the sport. Shows I do like are Whitetail Revolution and that crazy guy Tred Barta. Clearly the people on these shows are enjoying everything about the sport of hunting.
 
I wish I had the money to buy some land and try to manage it like the guys on TV. I would love to plant some food plots, and I wouldn't mind shooting the right number of does, and passing on the so so bucks, if I was sure that no one else was going to shoot them and I could hunt them the next year or the year after.

I can't complain though. I have a couple of places to hunt, pretty much to myself during the bow season. They are both maybe a hundred acres. Hard to hunt as the deer mostly just pass through, but I got lucky one year and killed a 160 non typical. My problem is when I get busted, which has happened a lot this season, more than likely I have pushed the deer off with no real alternatives.

Gun season is different. The landowner lets some of his relative and friends in and things change. I usually don't hunt gun season, but the last two years went out a few time with my .44 just in case someone pushes one by me.

I would love to have even just a couple of hundred acres that was mine to do what I wanted, but we all have to make due with what we have, and not be envious of what other people have. We also have to remember that when we watch those few lucky folks kill huge buck after huge buck that they have also invested a lot of money and time. Maybe someday I will win the lottery.
 
Nope, they're not like us because it's all about money and the lifestyle, plain and simple. Look, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to grow and harbor huge bucks. Hell, just read Dbltree's posts alone for a couple weeks and you're a shoe-in. Problem is that you need a few minor things first like a huge tract of prime ground, tractor, disc, harrow, cultipacker, probably a mower, planter, seeder, a lot of expensive seed and fertilizer, maybe an applicator or pay for liming as needed, machine shed to house all this stuff in, a bunch of trail cams would be handy in this formula, and either the time to manage it all or the money to pay for somebody else to do it. Everyone here who fits that bill here raise your hand.

We do the best we can with what we have and some of us work really hard and do make advantages for ourselves that some others would love to do and have so it's a multi-tiered situation with them at the top and all of us at varying levels below. No doubt in my mind that there's a huge advantage to having both the time and $$ to bring it to that level. Does that make you a world class hunter? Maybe, or perhaps you're just a hunter with a world class setup.

Fortunately, most of us hunt because we simply love the sport. Although we may not get as many opportunities as the heavyweights, we hopefully get enough to drive us and remain thankful we are able to be out there in the first place. And I believe THAT means more to most on this website than money can provide.
 
As I sit back from my "regular guy" position I picture myself SOMEDAY- 400 years from now - finally being able to afford 1,500 acres and making a video or writing articles. I guess the basis of what I would IMAGINE (or wish some others would say) and hopefully DARE to say is:

"I have been BLESSED with the ability to purchase a giant chunk of land- 1,500 acres- a deer hunter's paradise. I have done everthing in my power to improve this land and put my heart and soul into it! (in my head I would debate on telling anyone I have spent millions upon millions of dollars for it!). This land has and will produce AMAZING deer and gigantic deer because of my management efforts, my work and also the sheer fact I could purchase such a giant piece of land. My hunting is not like yours BUT I hope you enjoy watching my hunts. What works for me will likely not work for you because our situations are not near the same. I have been blessed with an amazing piece of land that has become one of the best deer hunting locations in the country- enjoy watching what I've done with it and what is possible if you're willing to put into it what I have." Guess that's my summary of how I hope to be truthful with others IF I ever owned my dream ground.

I cannot tell others enough- the conservation and improvement of land that goes on from hunters and WEALTHY hunters is nothing short of amazing. I will always believe that hunters are some of the best conservationists on earth. I commend the large and small for what they are doing and someday I hope to be apart of the large group. You'll still know what I'll say if I ever get there though! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Fortunately, most of us hunt because we simply love the sport. Although we may not get as many opportunities as the heavyweights, we hopefully get enough to drive us and remain thankful we are able to be out there in the first place. </div></div>

Well worded statement that I agree with.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Coming from a guy in Ga who would give anything to be able to hunt in Iowa on any size of land, I say "be happy with what you got and don't pitch a fit" to borrow a phrase. In other words I'd love to have access to even 5 acres but I don't so I going to do the best I can with what I've got.</div></div>

Folks that kill mature deer in higher pressure areas like GA, PA, MI or the east coast have my respect and admiration for their passion for the sport.

I am one of the "normal hunters" who hunt a mix of small private tracts and public land (about 50-50). Land access issues are part of my world like most people. Last season I got an opportunity of a lifetime and was fortunate enough to make the best of it. Do I think it made me a better or worse hunter?? No. I hunted harder this season than ever and that is the aspect of the sport I can control, MY EFFORT. However, I know that tons of people hunt hard every season and may never get the opportunity I got to experience in 2007. I try very hard not to forget that fact.

As far as the hunting industry, I respect certain individuals in the video segment immensely (Snow, D Kisky, Lakosky). Initially for what I have seen them kill but more recently for some of the "comments" I heard them talk about on videos. I have watched Snow show me how to not "overcall a buck" with his humble-soft spoken style, Lakosky can really put an arrow in the sweet spot, and Kisky just plain knows how to hunt mature deer. If I remember correctly, a couple years ago Lakosky hunted 50+ straight days in Iowa before killing a buck in frigid temps on Thanksgiving day. I admire that level of determination.

Unfortunately, I am convinced that the video industry is also contributing in some manner to the reduced hunting opportunities which are a burden to the very people who support the industry. I buy some of the video products cause I like to see big bucks killed, plain and simple. However, I try to not measure my circumstances against theirs. Are they "better" than me, I really don't care or think about it much anymore. I try to worry more about making myself and my hunting circumstances better and worry less about comparing myself to others.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iowabowtech</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> No doubt in my mind that there's a huge advantage to having both the time and $$ to bring it to that level. Does that make you a world class hunter? Maybe, or perhaps you're just a hunter with a world class setup. </div></div>
You hit the nail on the head with this statement. I'm a better hunter than those guys with big timber to themselves, I just don't have a place to prove it. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Just kidding of course..... kinda. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nannyslayer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess I should add, that I know of many guys that knock on doors, gain permission, help out landowners where they can, that continually kill trophy mature whitetails year in and year out. Sure, some of them just have a great spot, but others just plain know how to hunt mature deer. I think more of these guys than I do the video legends, but I will say that some of the video producers out there do put in the time and management practices it takes to grow trophy whitetails. </div></div>We all could to nanny if that was our job. Everyday of watching bucks, hunting, running cams, food plots and etc. Sure would increase our chances at a trophy. The ground i used to hunt is hunted by guys that live 70 miles away and i got the boot. Take that back they let us doe hunt the thanksgiving hunt. JERKS!!!!!!!!! And they still cant kill a giant. Best hunting ground in our area by far.
 
I know a guy that bought a big chunk of ground down south many years ago before any of the big names were in the area. He developed and managed the ground to produce the type of deer he wanted. He is a working guy like most of us on here and would sell several hunts a year to nr's to help pay the bills.

Over the last several years he was surrounded by the HS guys and Dury's. Snow took a deer on video that he had put a non-fatal shot on several days before.

He sold that place this year and purchased a new place in the next county over. He had to make a nice profit, because when he purchased this piece it was dirt cheap. I had a chance to buy some near him and now kick myself for what they wanted and what it would cost now.

I think the Drury's, Kisky's and Lee and Tiff all started out like you and me, but it now has turned in to a business. Do you really think that Mark Dury lived in Grand River Iowa? I think now they are buying land, managing,putting food plots,taking a few nice bucks and then sell the ground for a profit and then using the tax breaks to buy more ground. I am surprised it has taken them this long to buy ground in northern missouri. There is no reason with the proper management that you can not see the quality deer that we have here in southern iowa.

I will not buy a video to help these guys to help them fund the leasing or buying of land in iowa. I had a problem with the guys in the green and yellow pickups years ago,and was unhappy with the things they did to get a hunt on tape.

Would I buy a big chunk of ground if I had the chance? Damn right I would, but you will never see a video camera in any of my stands. I hunt to get away from work, not to be part of it.

It seems that everything now revolves around money, be it that you race a hobby stock on saturday nights at the local track or maybe golf. If you want to play you have to pay to be in the hunt.

Even the travel baseball team I coach has turned into a business for the team. I have to locate sponsers for the team to help pay for tournments so the parents do not have to have alot off out of pocket expense. The tourneys cost $500.00 ea. and if you go out of town you have to add meals, gas and motels costs. Then add uniforms and any new equipment.We will spend as a team and parents around $4000 - $5000 to play in 6 tourneys for a group of 14 year olds to play baseball.
 
Guess I see both sides of this. I film, but I film because of my love for it. Our video doesn't have the monsters killed like some other videos, but it is a group of guys just like all of us. Hell most of them are us...

I would love to have a huge chunk of ground, but I don't believe that having that is the only key to killing huge deer year after year. There is a lot more that goes into it. And for anyone who has killed an animal of film they know how much more difficult that makes it. Heck just coordinating for cameramen is a huge pain. But if you love it, why is that different.

I do agree that hunting isn't "our Job" like it is theirs, but if you are like me, most my time at work is spent thinking about, planning or dreaming of my next hunt. Or how to do this or how to do that. I just can't be out there. ButI can look at maps, and i can read about tips on great sites where I can get others opinions!

No matter how you slice it, I envy them, I would love to hunt with them, but like bonker said you still got to make the shot, and this year, I didn't do that!

Hunting, and some videos, is about the love of the sport. Whether on public land, Private land, or on outfitters land, it all comes down to the person, and how they love their sport!
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doubleaarchery</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guess I see both sides of this. I film, but I film because of my love for it. Our video doesn't have the monsters killed like some other videos, but it is a group of guys just like all of us. Hell most of them are us...

I would love to have a huge chunk of ground, but I don't believe that having that is the only key to killing huge deer year after year. There is a lot more that goes into it. And for anyone who has killed an animal of film they know how much more difficult that makes it. Heck just coordinating for cameramen is a huge pain. But if you love it, why is that different.

I do agree that hunting isn't "our Job" like it is theirs, but if you are like me, most my time at work is spent thinking about, planning or dreaming of my next hunt. Or how to do this or how to do that. I just can't be out there. ButI can look at maps, and i can read about tips on great sites where I can get others opinions!

No matter how you slice it, I envy them, I would love to hunt with them, but like bonker said you still got to make the shot, and this year, I didn't do that!

Hunting, and some videos, is about the love of the sport. Whether on public land, Private land, or on outfitters land, it all comes down to the person, and how they love their sport! </div></div>

+1

there is no blanket statement that can cover every hunter and hunting company and their intentions. there are certian personalities on each video i own that i dont particularly care for, and visa-versa.

WHO CARES if the Drury team owns and manages a ton of land? if i were in their shoes id do it the same way (and i bet Most if not all of you would also)! there is NOTHING wrong with any of the approaches discussed above, and we cannot determine how much passion or lack there of is put into the sport based on an outside view. i admire those who have found a way to make money through their passion and yet still have a strong passion for the sport.

i love filming, and i love watching hunts on TV, i got nothing but respect for the Drury team, Kiskys, Lakoskys, Steve Snow, the Primos Crew, Midwest Whitetail, RealHunting, Realtree. etc. etc. etc.

it appears that this post was intended to compare ourselves to "professionals", why??? do you love the time you get to hunt, and do you love how you pursue it??? if you answered 'yes' to that than this conversation is unneccessary.

maybe some need to have thier egos stroked or reassured that they are good hunters, as good, in fact, as many of the "bigger names" but dont have the coin/innovation to take it to that level. there is nothing wrong with pursuing your passion at your level if it makes you happy.

maybe the first thing that should have been said in this post was "honestly, im kinda jealous of "---- (enter big name hunters here)---" because i would love to make money through my passion of hunting and i think i can do as well as them given the opportunity.

most of us could.

i never will chastize any of them for doing what they do, i got nothing but respect for most of the "Pros" out there. it is a tough job and until you stand in their shoes, you cant judge the reason driving them to do what they do




(disclaimer- this is not directed at ANYONE specifically, just my opinion on the discussion /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif )
 
I have a total of 160 acres to hunt in private land all to myself, and putting in the food plots and shooting the does just on that chunk is hard enough in itself. I can't imagine what it'd be like to own 2,000 acres. Sometimes I think it'd be nice, but its also fun to try and make your little spot perfect. I don't think killing mature deer is worth the coin you'd have to drop for huge parcels, when there are a lot of guys out there who just give the deer everything they need on a 40 or 80 acre parcel and kill mature bucks every year. The Drurys have to do it though, because its their career.
 
I guess that I have developed a real attitude against most of the people who have taken a sport that means a lot to me, and commercialized it as a business that is rapidly driving me out of that sport. If you have the backing or sponsorship to buy a large single tract of land as a business asset, then naturally you have many advantages over the rest of us. If your business or job is to grow and then kill on video large deer then you have an advantage over the rest of us. If you can get up every single morning from Oct 1 to Dec 5th and decide which stand over which food plot of the 40 or 50 plots spread over 2000 acres, depending which way the wind is blowing or what the temp is, then you have an advantage over the rest of us. Is there a single person on here that if they had the financial backing to do nothing as a primary income earning job, except prepping and then hunting deer for 12 months a year and at a much higher "wage" than the average hunter, who would not do it?

To say that these Business Men Hunters are just hunters like you and me is ridiculous. That is like saying that Michael Jordan is just a basketball player just like Joe who plays at the YWCA twice a week in a league. I don't envoy these people and yes I have already planned the ground and equipment I will buy after I win Powerball, but I can't respect anyone like the Durys who pimp off this sport for millions of dollars from the very sportsmen that they are slowly driving away, and call themselves "hunters just like us"!

Other than that I guess I don't really have much of an opinion.
 
you dont like the fact that the sport is commercialized???

what kind of bow do you shoot?
What kind of camo do you wear??
what kind of truck do you drive???

do you watch sporting events on TV?
 
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