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Flatfoot

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Now I want you all to listen in what Iam going to say, LISTEN CAREFULLY,
Iam not pointing out any one one of the Guides in Iowa, Timberghost etc. This is what happens, they all bring hunters in at a hefty price, and are showen pictures of what Iowa has to offer in its trophy deer. And some of these guys are going to take a dam good deer, as they look around and see our tracks of timber, they are thinking why are we paying these fees when we can come back and try to lease our own ground for less than we paid for a 5 day hunt. They will tell their hunting friends and those will tell others, you are badly mistaken if you don't think this is the way it is. Understand the people that hunt in these preserves are not a true hunter as we know, they have lots of money and are not affraid to spent it on something they want and enjoy and do not care if you have hunted for the ground for 20 years. The next time in the fall go to some of the states campgrounds and look at the out of state plates, how do you think some of them arrived at hunting in your area! Iam here to tell you boys sooner or later you WILL be forced out of your area by hunting leases. How many farmers when approched in August to lease their land for $1000.00 - $1500.00 - $2000.00 are going to turn it down. It only takes one guy to start this lease crap in an area and in one month every farmer will know what his land is worth to hunt. Timberghost said they own 1500 acres and lease 1500 more, do you have any idea how much 3000 acres of ground is , 640 acres in a square mile, to put in proportion it will take you 1hour to walk around 20 acres of flat ground.I don't have a big problem with hunting preserves in general but I have a BIG problem with them stepping outside their fences.
 
Flatfoot

I believe you are correct and said so in a reply to Timber Ghost yesterday. Money for leases promote more leases. This has been a sore subject for a few years and has only gotten worse. I think most of the nearly 1000 members here will agree with us. The big question is what can we do about it. This won't go away because we complain about it. Some one needs to come up with an idea to curtail this leasing problem. I sure don't have a lot of ideas but I think the only way is through some sort of legislation.

There are lots of people here that are smarter than I am and maybe we can use this board to brainstorm some new ideas. I believe that the wildlife of Iowa are public property and my lciense fees and part of my taxs go toward this upkeep or management. I know Pheasants Forever will sign up land owners that will trade public access for habitate improvement. Maybe a similar program would work for deer hunting. Some how I think 180,000 resident deer hunters have to carry some clout if we can come together.

I really encourage everyone to get onboard and work toward a solution and not argue about who is good or bad, we are all hunters who love it or we wouldn't be here. I have one son, who I have taught to hunt, fish, and love the outdoors, and I would really really love to teach those same things to grandchildren someday.

Please don't be shy or overly critical of any ideas, just post your thoughts. Thanks
 
Limb Chicken
Thanks for the reply. I just cruised through the Kansas site but that looks like a Program that I could support, and is sort of what I meant. How can we find out more about and maybe get our DNR to look at it. I'm sure it would cost more in licence fees but I would be willing to pay if it would help. Everyone should look at this site and comment.
 
So what you are saying Flatfoot, is that you should continue to get a free ride hunting property that belongs to others and those who recognize the value of leasing these properties should be stopped from doing so. Why any landowner would want you on his property with this kind of attitude is beyond me.
 
The world is constantly changing. You have two choices: Fight the change and lose, or adapt.

Although I'm not real familiar with Iowa...from what I see its likely where Wisconsin was at about 15-20 years ago. Back when I first started hunting, you could go anywhere you want. You rarely even had to ask permission from the farmers. I had access to thousands of acres right out my back door where I grew up. But when the farm crisis hit in the early 80s, that pretty started the end of free access. Farmers went out of business and sold off their land, or they started looking for other revenue sources and leasing, or at least asking for labor help in exchange for hunting permission.

There are still some places you can get permission to hunt, but not many. We gradually lost access to all our spots, and 15 years ago, my family bought some land just before prices started to really take off. Looking back, boy did we get a deal and we really feel fortunate today.

Just about everyone I know here in Wisconsin has access to some private land to hunt. Those that don't are able to find some spots on the plentiful public land in the south and central part of the state. In the north, paper company and national forests offer tens of thousands of acres of access.

I'd advise anyone in Iowa that is afraid of leasing to scrape up some money, or band together with some friends or neighbors and buy some land to secure your hunting future.

Hunting land gets more expensive everyday --not just because they aren't making anymore of it but because as urban sprawl continues and more folks desire to live "in the country", there's less hunting land available to more hunters every single year.

Its this last point why leasing and high-fence operations are increasing. Just like car leasing. People can't afford to buy a brand new car and pay cash anymore..so they lease one for several hundred bucks a month. Rather than pay tens of thousands for a small plot, or hundreds of thousands for a large tract of land, folks can lease one for a few hundred or a few thousand annually.

Like it or hate it, thats the way it is.
 
WOW...... Scott I.C....... you are seeing 10 BOONE & CROCKETT bucks in a year..... what part of Iowa are you hunting in?........ Man now that is some good hunting
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How can we calculate the value of leased land? I think it is only by the current and future potential quality of the deer herd. If we didn't have large whitetails and if that fact weren't so widely and creatively promoted we would not have this contriversy. I personaly don't think land owners should be able to sell or lease us back our own wildlife. Most land that is leased today would still be owned by the same people if there were no leases. Most of these owners do little or nothing to protect or improve wildlife habitate and it just seems like they want to take advantage of the windfall income. I don't think many hunters are looking for a free ride, just access to this wildlife. I am not critizing landowners for trying to increase their income with out any additional outlay, but there should be a better way. I have also been at 2 DNR sponsored meetings on deer and heard farmers with leased land complain about to many deer eating their crops but they wouldn't allow more hunters to harvest more of these deer. They said the leases were the only way to get some of this money back. It would seem to me that if they allowed more hunters to harvest more deer then their crop loss would be less and therefore they wouldn't need to recoup that money.

I own a small 140 acre farm and there for have a place for myself and several friends to hunt, but many are not in that position. I maintain some areas in heavy brush for bedding and others for food plots for the deer and turkeys. These animals come and go and although I love them very much they aren't mine, so how could I sell them to some one else. I think that land owners should be able to control who has acess to their land but I just don't think that should be determined by who can write the biggest check. In my experience most of the people who can and do write big checks for leases are asses who can't get access any other way because they are asses. Don't mean to generalize, but these are my own experiences.

I think that the walk in access program in Kanasas might be a good way arround the problems. Land owners get extra income and the adverage hunter gets a place to hunt. If the hunters abuse the privilidge there is legal recourse. On face value this looks like a win win deal.
 
I'm from Indiana but have hunted both Iowa and Kansas, including many of their WIHA's. I really like the WIHA program, but here are the problems we ran across with it.

1. Outfitters use the new WIHA maps like roadmaps to potentially lease at a higher price. They scout them, select the best properties, and approach the owners. Thus the best properties don't stay WIHA. I work my a$$ off locating a good one, only to have it pulled from the program the next year.

2. There are tons of WIHA's with lousy deer hunting. That's why it gets entered and stays in the program. Old fields with no corn around.

I like the idea, but I wish there was a way to concentrate the money to acquire only quality habitat. Maybe most of it is intended for bird hunters, I don't know.
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The walk in hunting program is a good idea in that it can increase the amount of acreage open to public hunting. But based on the Iowa resident posts I read on this and other websites, I don't think many of those who are against lease hunting and outfitters will utilize the program. First, who will pay to lease these lands for public hunting? The DNR does not have the money. In some states, those who want to hunt these special public lands must purchase a special permit, the proceeds of which pays the cost. That is the fair way to do it. Those who use the land, pay for the use. But that goes against the principal of those who say they will never pay a fee to hunt private land. Then people will complain that the walk in lands are just like hunting game lands...which they are! From my perspective, the people who complain about leasing do not want to pay anything beyond the price of their deer tag, do not want to hunt public lands, and want access to private property, but want the landowner to restrict that access to only themselves and a few buds. I ask, what is the difference between someone leasing hunting rights versus one or two guys getting exclusive rights to hunt private ground? In one case those who get in pay, in the other they don't. Bottom line is that all others who would like to hunt that property are shut out. When I lived and hunted in Michigan the biggest problem was not leasing, it was that the landowners either did not permit any hunting or was restricting hunting rights to only those who were already in. There were a few landowners who would let anyone hunt but hunting on their property was really no different than hunting on public game lands as everyone and their brother hunt it as well.
 
Mr John V - you have no idea what I have did for the farmers I hunt on over past 35 years, and the friendships that have made, But I will tell you this they will NEVER lease their land to anyone! Can you figure out why. You would best served to read this board and listen to what is being said and not fight all that are trying to be helpful!!!!!!!!

Scott I.C. 10 BOONERS
Boy how does one reply to that, Iam really sorry Scott, but you should stop drinking Drano. Just kidding, I hope you did, the problem is next year you are going to have alot of company, including ME.

Iam sad to say that the day of respecting another bowhunters ground is just about gone
this lease thing will get out of hand soon and their will be very little we can do. Can you imagine it we would all start leasing land what abidding war it would become, some of us have the funds to lease but what about the guy that doesn't , god help you.
I hope all that read these posts realize they are ones ,hopefully of constructive criticism.
Well I have to go now, headed fo Iowa City.
 
Leased Land,here in the deep south land is leased or hunted by family or friends.Here in georgia we have timber companies that own whole counties,so you end up leasing from them or private holdings.It costs vary to the type of land and how much you can pay.We lease 3000 acres with 30 members for $650 a year,so its nothing special and no crops in sight but a long term lease and somewhere to hunt and camp year round.Be awre that as others have said,shake a little money around and your free hunting ground will be gone and you too will pay to hunt.One day I look foward to hunting in Iowa,where I was born,yet a $309. dollar license puts me to staying close to home where I can harvest 10 does and 2 bucks and although there not as big as yours there deer and hunting vast acres of woods makes everyone of them an acomplishment.Good hunting to all!
 
I think leasing would have to involve something in writing and/or an exchange of money. An important thing to remember, once money is exchanged for the right to hunt, the landowner is responsible for any injury or accident that occurs on the property. If someone just has permission, the landowner would not be responsible.
 
One thing we should all understand, if we think this leasing thing is inevitable and there is nothing to do about it, it will be! Think where we would be if the coloniest had thought there was nothing they could do about Britian. In that case we would not be hunting any more than the Britians are. Work toward solutions not submition.
 
Food for thought........

Quality hunting(ie undisturbed time afield) = Limited access

Limited access= owning property and limiting the number of hunters on it...... gaining access for yourself and a few others..... or leasing the hunting rights to a particular piece of ground.

Public land = uncontrolled access..... longer walks to limit access..... harder work for mature bucks.

Every year there are BIG bucks killed on public ground...... most hunters are just not willing to work hard enough to get to the isolated areas.

I am not against out of state hunters, but if Iowa ever opens the flood gates like they have in Illinois (ie over the counter tags).... then leasing will definately affect every hunter in Iowa. Land prices will sky rocket, and access will seem impossible without $$$$

I wonder how many guys complain about leasing yet drive $30,000 pickups and pull $15,000 ATVs !!!!
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I have hunted and taken deer on walk in land in kansas and it is a good program,but like somebody else stated outfitters come by and leases the prime areas the following year and most the land is not good deer land.A friend got a huge body,half rack off walk in land this year and we made sure we thank the farmer for not leaseing to a outfitter and they seem to like that.
 
If a farmer has had a bad year and some hunters offer him $1000 to lease his land for hunting,i bet he takes it just to pay his taxes on the land.I feel if a farmer wants to lease his land,thats his business.
 
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